Embryonic Stem Cells Kill

[mcgonser]

I think that they should not be able to vote in their own raises. And definitely not when we are in a financial crisis. I think the American people should vote on it when there is a ballot, or election scheduled. It can be put on the ballot.I also think there should be term limits on Senate and House pols.

[followsthewolf]

No. . . it is not. That tripe about esc's is based upon scare tactics. The Pro lifers lost ground and they are mewling like scared little kittens. The fact is that legislation had zero business being passed in the first place, and as has already been stated, it only served to obstruct the progress that was being made.

ESC's are the best surrounding spinal regeneration research potential and what transpired only served to diminish the hope it holds for those that would benefit greatly from progression within that area. The truth is we had barely tapped the possibilities when W slammed the door shut, forcing research to "create" an alternative that increases the timeline for research incredibly, and that isn't anywhere near as promising, yet we progressed despite it; although at a cost.

Dolly scared the panties off the holy rollers and they saw this legislation as a means to put a wall up to scientific progress; just as religion has always done throughout history. These hysterical reactions are ludicrous and one would think society would learn from its mistakes instead of mindlessly repeating them! 

"Oh but it's playing God!" cry the holy rollers. But think about that a little bit would you? Let's take the words of "the book"; (I paraphrase a bit here). . .God created man in his own image. . . So, I'll submit to that and take it a little farther down the path. If the creator did indeed start with this intention and also provided us with free will, did he not also provide us with the ability and the intelligence to learn that which "he" already knows? Why not? If he really didn't want us to go down a path wouldn't it be safe to say then that "he" would and should be the one putting up the barriers to the knowledge? Wouldn't he do so if it is "forbidden"? (Oh, that's right, there's the old apple and serpent parable. . .)

(I apologize for acknowledging the elephant in the room, forcing everyone to do the same; but when you get to the bottom line on this subject you will find the only reason we're talking about it is the religious objection to it in the first place!)

You have absolutely captured the essence of the situation, PH. It is nearly impossible to explain how much serendipity plays a role in scientific investigation. I see it happen very nearly so often as to defeat the definition of the word.

Rather than go and see what is going on in research in many fields, most people will dismiss that funding that seems, on the face of it, to be worthless. If someone had investigated rats more thoroughly, perhaps the fleas on them would have been discovered earlier to be the culprits, and 1/3 of Europe's population would have been saved. The study of rats (fleas) as a carrier of disease was dismissed out of hand at the time.

I hope I need not go on about all the other scientific discoveries that were considered to be worthless research at the time.

Some of us NEVER learn.

[me]

But why continue something when you have something else that is working?  Why not put more energy and money into something that is working and the person wouldn't have to take anti rejection medication for the rest of their lives to get the  benefit from it?

[Palehorse]

But why continue something when you have something else that is working?  Why not put more energy and money into something that is working and the person wouldn't have to take anti rejection medication for the rest of their lives to get the  benefit from it?

That which we cannot create, cannot buy, and cannot get back. . .time. . .

The alternatives present exponentially longer time-lines just to create and present unacceptable delays to progression. The fact is what is natural is usually better and for a reason. Science has proven this time and again and so it is with esc's. Cellular and genetic manipulation are increased when starting with synthetically/laboratory created sc's, presenting highly increased levels of potential for contamination incidents and unacceptable regeneration or results.

The fact is this can happen when using hesc's but the reduction in potential windows for these incidents due to the reduced number of required cellular and genetic manipulations makes them far superior to the alternatives for that very reason, among others. 

What do we say to those that will benefit from this science; sorry you're going to suffer the rest of your life due to the delays, but right after you lay down for the long dirt nap we'll validate the cure for your problems? NO! For each and every one of these individuals time is the driver behind the importance and urgency in this research. They cannot buy it, they cannot create it, they cannot get it back. Don't you think it is then incumbent upon each one of us to ensure that it is used wisely?

[followsthewolf]

When it was suggested that frogs may be the harbingers of a problem with pesticides and/or herbicides, the initial investigations were neutral.

Further investigation has, however, proven the original hypothesis to be wildly true.

We now, therefore, have a benchmark for the identification of certain chemicals that were never thought to have an adverse effect on our environment; ergo, on our children who play in them.

If scientists had given up the search, how would we have ever known?

BTW, the grotesque deformities in frogs continue today, precisely because too many people think they can apply "common sense" to too many situations, completely disregarding the scientific method.

[followsthewolf]

The dirt nap continues for my brother.

Until we all join in.

[Palehorse]

The dirt nap continues for my brother.

Until we all join in.

Although I know it isn't anywhere near what you are going through, just the knowledge that someone I associate with has been victimized and touched directly by this ignorant delay frustrates me beyond words. It is absolutely unacceptable to me as a human being!

My apologies on behalf of humanity for its ignorance my friend, and my own ignorance for utilizing such terminology in referring to any victims passing, and if it presented you with one nano-second of discomfort or offense! I can be quite crass at times. . . 

I have very strong personal and professional opinions on this topic that seem to run alongside your own; however it has not elicited from me that which it has taken from you and your family. I can only imagine how painful this must be for each one of you.

[me]

The dirt nap continues for my brother.

Until we all join in.

Maybe I'm being skewed because the stem cell transplant did help my cousin's husband so I know of what is available from that angle.  Had the outcome been different for him I might possibly feel otherwise.  I do intend to do a little more research on this when I have the time to sit here and actually be able to concentrate. 

[followsthewolf]

Although I know it isn't anywhere near what you are going through, just the knowledge that someone I associate with has been victimized and touched directly by this ignorant delay frustrates me beyond words. It is absolutely unacceptable to me as a human being!

My apologies on behalf of humanity for its ignorance my friend, and my own ignorance for utilizing such terminology in referring to any victims passing, and if it presented you with one nano-second of discomfort or offense! I can be quite crass at times. . . 

I have very strong personal and professional opinions on this topic that seem to run alongside your own; however it has not elicited from me that which it has taken from you and your family. I can only imagine how painful this must be for each one of you.

No need for apologies, my friend. My brother accepted it much better than I did; perhaps because I am involved in research and have been thwarted so many times by ignorance that I have become a bit numb to it. Not, however, to my brother's passing.

We plod on, regardless of the harpies and naysayers, because we see the progress that is made.

Thanks.

[xman]

the amount of money sunk into hesc's research would have been better spent on esc's research. one of my favorite actors, and a fine man, chris reeves may have been walking amongst us today if it were not for the fear of science that was, and is, thrust upon humanity by those who believe in the boogeyman. those are the poeple who deny empirical evidence because it decries those myths which they hold so near and dear to thier hearts. no virginia, there is no santa claus. and riendeer don't fly. and evolution is fact.

p.s. i apologise for mispelling embroynic in my last post on this thread. my keyboard is dyslexic. maybe esc's can fix that. ha.

[Sandy Eggo]

Maybe I'm being skewed because the stem cell transplant did help my cousin's husband so I know of what is available from that angle.  Had the outcome been different for him I might possibly feel otherwise.  I do intend to do a little more research on this when I have the time to sit here and actually be able to concentrate. 

When science is making new discoveries, I think of Leeuwenhoek and how he may have been scorned and laughed at when he tried to convince people that bacteria exists. Without exploration and experimentation then we're in danger of not coming close to understanding the realms of possibility. We can't afford to not know.

What pro life/anti embryonic stem cell research yahoos forget to mention is that abortion isn't involved in the research. 

[me]

What I was looking at is the fact that to this point the embryonic research has only produce poor results while they have had good results using the other two methods for some different things. Also research was still ongoing in other countries, with embryo's which were scheduled to be disposed of, and privately so it isn't like it was stopped altogether.

[DannyBoy]

Let the researchers do the work, the potential benefits are amazing.  Leave the politics and religious overtones out of it.  The extremists only try to push their agenda when it is convenient and politically motivated. 

One could argue that organ donors are morally corupt and should be outlawed by that line of thinking.

[kimmi]

But why continue something when you have something else that is working?  Why not put more energy and money into something that is working and the person wouldn't have to take anti rejection medication for the rest of their lives to get the  benefit from it?

Should medicine never have come farther than Penicillin?  It works for some but not all but it works so we shouldn't have researched other medicines that could replace it? 

Me when you have your science or medical degree I'll listen, but for now you are just regurgitating when you read in those whack websites. 

[me]

Should medicine never have come farther than Penicillin?  It works for some but not all but it works so we shouldn't have researched other medicines that could replace it? 

Me when you have your science or medical degree I'll listen, but for now you are just regurgitating when you read in those whack websites.

Excuse me but I'm not reading whack websites in case you hadn't noticed some of the links I put up.  I am not talking about moral or ethical issues nor am I going to believe what I read on the whacko left websites.  What I originally posted is what raised the question on my mind and I'm trying to find information.  Are those of you on the left so sure of what you're being told you just take their word for it instead of trying to find info that you won't bother to find links to put up too?  Forget the politics, moral issues, and ethical issues this happens to be something I'm really interested in and would like to know more about.
Not all medicine is a good thing you know.  My mom was given an arthritis medication and asked about the risks before she took it.  Well, the Dr. told her, "the benefits out weigh the risks", she ended up with lymphoma as a result of taking the medication.  She didn't hurt but was it really worth it when she could have taken something else and not suffered the consequences of that particular medicine?  My daughters mother-in-law had her kidney's shut down and is now in very poor health because of this same medication.  Her son-in-law died as a result of another arthritis medication. Benefits out weigh the risks?  Not in these particular cases they didn't. 
What does that have to do with stem cell research you ask.  Well, same deal, they are saying, "oh this is so great and will cure all kinds of conditions and illnesses", but will it?  What's wrong with questioning it and finding out the pros and cons and discussing it.  Doesn't it behoove us all to be as informed as possible in case we're faced with having to make a decision of whether to have this or which one to go with at some point in the future?  Just because I don't have a medical degree doesn't mean I should just automatically believe everything I'm told and not bother to check it out for myself or learn about certain things.