Global Warming

[Exterminator]

Some of you are underestimating ol Hank. . . He's far more intelligent than he reveals herein. . . I think on purpose! 

Riiiiiiiiight!

[me]

I do believe that Exterminator thinks he's the only one on this forum that is educated. 

[Henry Hawk]

BWAHAHAHAHA!  That's pretty good for someone who can't conjugate the verb 'to be'; from whom did you copy it?

Simply because my conjugational preferences are not deemed appropriate, by the standards set by the English language..I prefer to adhere to my Caucasian "trailer" rubbish milieu in which I was reared upon.....and did not replicate the above mentioned statement regarding your unfounded edification....

Okay seriously ...........I'm done...........I think I pulled a brain muscle....

[Exterminator]

Okay seriously ...........I'm done...........I think I pulled a brain muscle....

That notwithstanding, I did enjoy, "Caucasian trailer rubbish milieu."

[Ghost of Jaco]

Not really, no.

And the proposal was poo-poo'ed; thank you for illustrating my point.

  Do your own research or remain ignorant, your choice.

Look, asshat, you are the one who demanded people provide "peer-reviewed" sources to bolster their assertions.
I only asked the same of you. You are no better than anyone else here. In fact, so far you've proven yourself to be less than most.

The UN, as a body, tried to institute global taxation. Taxation IS governance.
So the only "point" of yours that has been proven is the one on the top of your head.

We're trying to not look down on you and would rather consider you an intellectual equal, but you make it very difficult because you argue like a child rather than debate like an adult.
Go back to page 11 and read my reply #150. Think about what I said in that post and then try discussing this subject again, but like an grownup this time.

Maybe if you showed a little respect for others, you'd get some respect back.

[Exterminator]

Look, asshat, you are the one who demanded people provide "peer-reviewed" sources to bolster their assertions.
I only asked the same of you. You are no better than anyone else here. In fact, so far you've proven yourself to be less than most.

How many times do I have to tell you to stay out of grown people's conversations?

Try to wrap your little brain around this: Would you agree that one could expect peer-reviewed sources for something that didn't happen to be conspicuously absent or would you relish reading an official-looking report on our last manned mission to Mars?

Having assumed that your chosen path would be that of continued ignorance, I repeated some of my earlier research with the same conclusion: global cooling in the 70's was a myth.  There is a fairly comprehensive and well documented discussion of subject here.  I wouldn't expect you to actually be able to digest a whole 13 pages in one sitting so I'll offer a quote from that piece to give you the essence of it (emphasis mine):

"Despite active efforts to answer these
questions, a pervasive myth has taken hold in the
public consciousness: That there was a
consensus among climate scientists of the 1970s
that global cooling or a full-fledged ice age was
imminent (e.g., Balling 1992, Giddens 1999,
Schlesinger 2003, Inhofe 2003, Will 2004,
Michaels 2004, Crichton 2004, Singer and Avery
2007, Horner 2007). A review of the climate
science literature from 1965 to 1979 shows the
myth to be false. The myth's basis lies in a
selective misreading of the texts both by some
members of the media at the time and by some
observers today. In fact, emphasis on greenhouse
warming dominated the scientific literature even
then.

If this arouses your curiosity even a little you can google, "70's global cooling myth," where you'll find a wealth of information on the subject.  Why people choose to go out of their way to look stupid rather than even try to find out the truth escapes me. 

The UN, as a body, tried to institute global taxation. Taxation IS governance.

So if I tried to fly, that would make me a bird?

So the only "point" of yours that has been proven is the one on the top of your head.

Such wit!

We're trying to not look down on you and would rather consider you an intellectual equal, but you make it very difficult because you argue like a child rather than debate like an adult.
Go back to page 11 and read my reply #150. Think about what I said in that post and then try discussing this subject again, but like an grownup this time.

The irony of that post is that it serves to do exactly that of which you accuse...psychology refers to this as the fundamental attribution error.

[Ghost of Jaco]

Having assumed that your chosen path would be that of continued ignorance, I repeated some of my earlier research with the same conclusion: global cooling in the 70's was a myth.  There is a fairly comprehensive and well documented discussion of subject here.  I wouldn't expect you to actually be able to digest a whole 13 pages in one sitting so I'll offer a quote from that piece to give you the essence of it (emphasis mine):

"Despite active efforts to answer these
questions, a pervasive myth has taken hold in the
public consciousness: That there was a
consensus among climate scientists of the 1970s
that global cooling or a full-fledged ice age was
imminent (e.g., Balling 1992, Giddens 1999,
Schlesinger 2003, Inhofe 2003, Will 2004,
Michaels 2004, Crichton 2004, Singer and Avery
2007, Horner 2007). A review of the climate
science literature from 1965 to 1979 shows the
myth to be false. The myth's basis lies in a
selective misreading of the texts both by some
members of the media at the time and by some
observers today. In fact, emphasis on greenhouse
warming dominated the scientific literature even
then.

If this arouses your curiosity even a little you can google, "70's global cooling myth," where you'll find a wealth of information on the subject.  Why people choose to go out of their way to look stupid rather than even try to find out the truth escapes me. 

So if I tried to fly, that would make me a bird?

Such wit!

The irony of that post is that it serves to do exactly that of which you accuse...psychology refers to this as the fundamental attribution error.

Ok, you took a slight amount of the ridicule out of your discourse, so I will take some out of mine. I won't call you an "asshat" anymore.

Your comment about being a bird is a deflection, which is a tacit admission that I am correct.
Instead of deflecting, and assuming that you still disagree, why don't you instead, say, "GoJ, you may have a point there about taxation being governance, but I don't equate governance with dominance and here's why.........."? Then you would be disagreeing without being disagreeable. It moves the discussion along and makes those who disagree much more open to new ideas about the subject.

"Such wit!"
Thanks. Most of my friends think I'm pretty darn hilarious sometimes.

"...fundamental attribution error."
No it doesn't. Wrong application of that term. Well, maybe, technically; but it was intentional. I was "talking" to you in the same tone that you were using on this thread. In essence, mimicking you in hopes that you would realize how it made you appear to other posters (boorish and an ass).


Now to the "meat" (in the nicer tone of voice I would prefer to use):

I was in school in the 1970's. None of the science literature, and I read a lot of science literature, I was exposed to even hinted at global warming. It was "all ice age, all the time." I'm not saying that there was not scientific opinion to the contrary, just stating what people in the 1970's were being told.
Perhaps opinions and evidence contrary to global cooling were being suppressed then.
Perhaps opinions and evidence contrary to global warming are being suppressed now.

Also from your source:
By the early 1970s, when Mitchell updated
his work (Mitchell 1972), the notion of a global
cooling trend was widely accepted, albeit poorly
understood. The first satellite records showed
increasing snow and ice cover across the northern
hemisphere from the late 1960s to the early
1970s, capped by unusually severe winters in Asia
and parts of North America in 1972 and 1973
(Kukla and Kukla 1974), pushed the issue into the
public consciousness (Gribbin 1975). The new
data about global temperatures came amid
growing concerns about world food supplies,
triggering fears that a planetary cooling trend
might threaten humanity's ability to feed itself
(Thompson 1975). It was not long, however,
before scientists teasing apart the details of
Mitchell's trend found that it was not necessarily a
global phenomenon. A closer examination of
Southern Hemisphere data showed that what
appeared to be a global cooling trend was in fact
dominated by Northern Hemisphere temperatures,
while thermometers in the Southern Hemisphere
seemed to be headed in the opposite direction
(Damon and Kunen 1976).


The same argument is being made about global warming today. Basically, that the evidence is being misunderstood, the models fail to take certain variables into account, etc.
You know, I read  some of the data from the CCCP, er, ICCP -whatever- source that you provided previously. They actually (partially) address my contention that, if global warming is occurring, it's a natural process. The most affective causal factors being solar activity and the position of the sun relative to the earth. They did include solar activity in the models, but they seemed to being shying away from actually stating, "it's absolutely NOT a factor" (other scientists, btw, can correlate increased solar activity with global temperature increases. Of course, correlation does not prove causation for your scientists or mine).

See: "Ancient Observations Link Changes in Sun's Brightness and Earth's Climate" by Kevin D. Pang and Kevin K. Yao; EOS, Transactions of the American Geophysical Union, Volume 83, number 43, 22 October 2002, pages 481+.

    "This is an article written for scientists. The authors track 9 cycles of changes in solar brightness over the last 1800 years, and then correlate these with various changes in the Earth's climate. As you undoubtedly know, an especially suspicious correlation is that of a period of no sunspots (and hence low solar activity) corresponding with the Maunder Minimum of ~1645 to 1715 A.D, a period of extreme cold in Europe. Because of the complexity of effects on the Earth's climate, the jury is still out on whether this period of a Little Ice Age was indeed caused by the lack of solar activity. However, the correlations are intriguing and continue to be discussed at scientific meetings such as the AGU. You can find lots more about the Maunder Minimum and its relationship to sunspots on the web. "



And they apparently did not include the changing position of the earth's orbit and tilt relative to the sun, nor precession of the equinoxes; at least they do not mention doing so and they do seem rather thorough in recounting their variables.

See: http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/Climate_Change/Older/Earths_Orbit.html
"The Milankovitch theory, named after the Yugoslav mathematician who first proposed it, is the astronomical or orbital theory of climate variations. Since these ideas were put forward, much evidence from palaeoclimatic records has been found to support the theory. The original Milankovitch theory identifies three types of variation in the Earth's orbit around the Sun which could act as mechanisms to change the global climate. These include changes in the tilt of the Earth's axis (obliquity), changes in the shape of Earth's orbit (eccentricity) and the shifting of the equinoxes (precession). Each variation has its specific time period, the shortest being 22,000 years and the longest being 96,000 years.

The three orbital variations together affect the total amount of sunlight received by the Earth, and distribution of that sunlight at different latitudes and at different times. With time periods measured in tens of thousands of years, one would expect that changes in climate as a result of orbital variations would occur over similar time periods. Indeed, the Milankovitch theory of climate change has been used to explain the global climate of the last 2 million years, with changes between warmer interglacial periods and colder Ice Ages occurring over a 100,00 year cycle, as predicted by the Milankovitch theory of climate change." (emphasis added - Goj)



Also apparently not included is that the rotational speed of the earth is not constant, which would cause more or less sunlight-per-square-meter-per-unit-of-time. It's slowing, btw.

See: http://novan.com/earth.htm and http://www.iers.org/MainDisp.csl?pid=35-12
"The length of time it takes the Earth, at the present time, to rotate once is 86,400.002 seconds compared to 86,400 seconds back in 1820. The rotation has slowed roughly only by 2 milliseconds since 1820. That seems like an insignificant amount of time BUT over the course of the planet's entire lifetime, it has had very profound effects on the geophysics of the planet.

It has caused mountains to rise, earthquakes, etc. to occur..."



Nor do they seem to consider variations in the core or mantle temperature of the earth, which may also affect global climate change.

See: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1990GeoRL..17.1997B
"Recent studies of the secular variation of the earth's magnetic field over periods of a few centuries have suggested that the pattern of fluid motion near the surface of earth's outer core may be strongly influenced by lateral temperature variations in the lowermost mantle."



In summary, your source fails to account for enough variables to convince me that man-made global warming is occurring.
Therefore, in my opinion, we shouldn't surrender our dollars and our freedoms in response an unproven (yet profitable*) theory.
My contention remains that global climate change is caused by natural processes, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

Once again I welcome your thoughts, as long as you debate like an adult rather than continuing argue like a child.



*I think we could probably agree that global warming has become an industry on both sides of the argument:
See:
http://www.aim.org/publications/aim_report/2002/15.html "SCIENCE FOR SALE: THE GLOBAL WARMING SCAM"
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/global-warming-payola/ "Global-Warming Payola?"

[Exterminator]

Ok, you took a slight amount of the ridicule out of your discourse, so I will take some out of mine. I won't call you an "asshat" anymore.

Call me whatever makes you happy.

Your comment about being a bird is a deflection, which is a tacit admission that I am correct.
Instead of deflecting, and assuming that you still disagree, why don't you instead, say, "GoJ, you may have a point there about taxation being governance, but I don't equate governance with dominance and here's why.........."? Then you would be disagreeing without being disagreeable. It moves the discussion along and makes those who disagree much more open to new ideas about the subject.

No but perhaps I could have made myself clearer had I suggested that I, personally, proposed to impose a tax and was also unable to because, like the U.N., I don't have the authority either.

"Such wit!"

Thanks. Most of my friends think I'm pretty darn hilarious sometimes.

Small minds are easily amused.   

Now to the "meat" (in the nicer tone of voice I would prefer to use):

I was in school in the 1970's. None of the science literature, and I read a lot of science literature, I was exposed to even hinted at global warming. It was "all ice age, all the time." I'm not saying that there was not scientific opinion to the contrary, just stating what people in the 1970's were being told.
Perhaps opinions and evidence contrary to global cooling were being suppressed then.
Perhaps opinions and evidence contrary to global warming are being suppressed now.

So was I and so did I and I don't remember either being covered.

I'll refrain from addressing each of your following points because sources are available that will say pretty much whatever anyone wants to hear on either side of the issue.  I continue to maintain that there is no significant downside to reducing emissions, not economically and certainly not from an environmental standpoint.

Therefore, in my opinion, we shouldn't surrender our dollars and our freedoms in response an unproven (yet profitable*) theory.

I am interested in knowing how many of your dollars and/or freedoms anyone has asked you to surrender because of global warming?

Once again I welcome your thoughts, as long as you debate like an adult rather than continuing argue like a child.

Whatever, doody-head.   

[Henry Hawk]

Yes, brought on by global warming.

so, you say global warming will NOT flood the earth, but it will bring on an Ice Age....hmmm   

could El Niño   POSSIBLY have ANYTHING  to do with this?

[dan foster]

You are showing your incompetence when you make blanket statements like that.........thus making intelligent discussions unfounded and negated.....   your lack of education and your capacity to comprehend a higher form of intellectual discourse has exceeded your abilities to further communicate on a level that is acceptable to those of us who champion the art of contentious deliberations of sophisticated substance......sorry.....got a little carried away.

Republicans, on the whole, are morally and intellectually bankrupt (not just corrupt).  Bush is the shining example of that.

[me]

Republicans, on the whole, are morally and intellectually bankrupt (not just corrupt).  Bush is the shining example of that.

If Republicans are so intellectually bankrupt why are we the ones, well Henry and Jaco, doing the research and all you and Ex are doing is making stupid remarks and not backing them up?    And on the moral issue, well, I think you'd better be doing some research.  Start off with Barney Franks.   

[Ghost of Jaco]

If Republicans are so intellectually bankrupt why are we the ones, well Henry and Jaco, doing the research and all you and Ex are doing is making stupid remarks and not backing them up?    And on the moral issue, well, I think you'd better be doing some research.  Start off with Barney Franks.  

Maybe df was trying to prove Henry's point about "blanket statements". If so he did an admirable job and, even though that would negate his whole blanket statement about Republicans, he is deserving of our kudos for being oh-so-clever.
If he didn't realize he was proving Henry's point, then his "intellectually bankrupt" assertion would appear to be projection.

Now, about that "morally bankrupt" assertion....
Setting aside comic cognitive dissonance that arises when someone who believes in neither Heaven nor Hell, God nor Satan, good nor evil, has made an assertion about morality at all, let alone the morality of others, then I am left with this question:

If eight years of "W" mispronouncing "nuclear" proves Republicans as a whole are morally bankrupt, what does the following prove about Democrats?

William Jefferson Clinton- Impeached by the House of Representatives over allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice, but acquitted by the Senate. Scandals include Whitewater - Travelgate Gennifer Flowersgate - Filegate - Vince Fostergate - Whitewater Billing Recordsgate - Paula Jonesgate- Lincoln Bedroomgate - Donations from Convicted Drug and Weapons Dealersgate - Lippogate - Chinagate - The Lewinsky Affair - Perjury and Jobs for Lewinskygate - Kathleen Willeygate - Web Hubbell Prison Phone Callgate - Selling Military Technology to the Chinesegate - Jaunita Broaddrick Gate - Lootergate - Pardongate

Edward Moore Kennedy - Democrat - U. S. Senator from Massachusetts. Pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, after his car plunged off a bridge on Chappaquiddick Island killing passenger Mary Jo Kopechne.

Barney Frank - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1981 to present. Admitted to having paid Stephen L. Gobie, a male prostitute, for sex and subsequently hiring Gobie as his personal assistant. Gobie used the congressman's Washington apartment for prostitution. A move to expel Frank from the House of Representatives failed and a motion to censure him failed.

The DNC - The Federal Election Commission imposed $719,000 in fines against participants in the 1996 Democratic Party fundraising scandals involving contributions from China, Korea and other foreign sources. The Federal Election Commission said it decided to drop cases against contributors of more than $3 million in illegal DNC contributions because the respondents left the country or the corporations are defunct.

Sandy Berger - Democrat - National Security Advisor during the Clinton Administration. Berger became the focus of a criminal investigation after removing highly classified terrorism documents and handwritten notes from the National Archives during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings.

Robert Torricelli - Democrat - Withdrew from the 2002 Senate race with less than 30 days before the election because of controversy over personal gifts he took from a major campaign donor and questions about campaign donations from 1996.

James McGreevey - Democrat - New Jersey Governor . Admitted to having a gay affair. Resigned after allegations of sexual harassment, rumors of being blackmailed on top of fundraising investigations and indictments.

Jesse Jackson - Democrat - Democratic candidate for President. Admitted to having an extramarital affair and fathering a illegitimate child.

Gary Condit - Democrat - US Democratic Congressman from California. Condit had an affair with an intern. Condit, covered up the affair and lied to police after she went missing. No charges were ever filed against Condit. Her remains were discovered in a Washington DC park..

Eliot Spitzer- Democrat - New York governor - resigned from office after being tied to a prostitution ring.

Sowande Ajumoke Omokunde - Democrat - the son of newly elected U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore, was booked on charges of criminal damage to property for allegedly slashing tires on 20 vans and cars rented by the Republican Party for use in Election Day voter turnout efforts.

Daniel David Rostenkowski - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1959 to 1995. Indicted on 17 felony charges- pleaded guilty to two counts of misuse of public funds and sentenced to seventeen months in federal prison.

Melvin Jay Reynolds - Democrat U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1993 to 1995. Convicted on sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice charges and sentenced to five years in prison.

Wayne Bryant - Democrat NJ state senator- was convicted was found guilty on all 12 counts against him including bribery and pension fraud.

Charles Coles Diggs, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Michigan from 1955 to 1980. Convicted on eleven counts of mail fraud and filing false payroll forms- sentenced to three years in prison.

George Rogers - Democrat - Massachusetts State House of Representatives from 1965 to 1970. M000ember of Massachusetts State Senate from 1975 to 1978. Convicted of bribery in 1978 and sentenced to two years in prison.

Don Siegelman - Democrat Governor Alabama - indicted in a bid-rigging scheme involving a maternity-care program. The charges accused Siegelman and his former chief of staff of helping Tuscaloosa physician Phillip Bobo rig bids. Siegelman was accused of moving $550,000 from the state education budget to the State Fire College in Tuscaloosa so Bobo could use the money to pay off a competitor for a state contract for maternity care.

John Murtha, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania. Implicated in the Abscam sting, in which FBI agents impersonating Arab businessmen offered bribes to political figures; Murtha was cited as an unindicted co-conspirator.

Otto Kerner - Democrat governor of Illinois from 1961 to 1968 was jailed after the manager of two horse-racing tracks admitted to bribing the then- governor; charges were filed after Kerner left office he was convicted in 1973.

Dan Walker - Democrat governor of Illinois from1973 to 1977 served less than two years of a seven-year sentence for receiving improper loans a decade after leaving office.

Gerry Eastman Studds - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1973 to 1997. The first openly gay member of Congress. Censured by the House of Representatives for having sexual relations with a teenage House page.

Hiram Monserrate- Queens City Councilman and state Senator-elect - who has claimed to be an advocate of victims of domestic violence - was arrested for breaking a glass over his girlfriend's face. Monserrate, 41, a former cop, won election to the state Senate as a Democrat in November 2008.

James C. Green - Democrat - North Carolina State House of Representatives from 1961 to 1977. Charged with accepting a bribe from an undercover FBI agent, but was acquitted. Convicted of tax evasion in 1997.

Frederick Richmond - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1975 to 1982. Arrested in Washington, D.C., in 1978 for soliciting sex from a minor and from an undercover police officer - pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. Also - charged with tax evasion, marijuana possession, and improper payments to a federal employee - pleaded guilty.

Raymond Lederer - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1977 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting - convicted of bribery and sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000.

Harrison Arlington Williams, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Senator from New Jersey from 1959 to 1970. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Allegedly accepted an 18% interest in a titanium mine. Convicted of nine counts of bribery, conspiracy, receiving an unlawful gratuity, conflict of interest, and interstate travel in aid of racketeering. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $50,000.

Frank Thompson, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1955 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting, convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges. Sentenced to three years in prison

Michael Joseph Myers - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1976 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting - convicted of bribery and conspiracy; sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000; expelled from the House of Representatives on October 2, 1980.

John Michael Murphy - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1963 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted of conspiracy, conflict of interest, and accepting an illegal gratuity. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000.

John Wilson Jenrette, Jr - Democrat - U.S. Representative from South Carolina from 1975 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges and sentenced to prison

Neil Goldschmidt - Democrat - Oregon governor. Admitted to having an illegal sexual relationship with a 14-year-old teenager while he was serving as Mayor of Portland.

Alcee Lamar Hastings - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Florida. Impeached and removed from office as federal judge in 1989 over bribery charges.

Marion Barry - Democrat - mayor of Washington, D.C., from 1979 to 1991 and again from 1995 to 1999. Convicted of cocaine possession after being caught on videotape smoking crack cocaine. Sentenced to six months in prison.

Mario Biaggi - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1969 to 1988. Indicted on federal charges that he had accepted bribes in return for influence on federal contracts.Convicted of obstructing justice and accepting illegal gratuities. Tried in 1988 on federal racketeering charges and convicted on 15 felony counts.

Lee Alexander - Democrat - Mayor of Syracuse, N.Y. from 1970 to 1985. Was indicted over a $1.5 million kickback scandal. Pleaded guilty to racketeering and tax evasion charges. Served six years in prison.

Bill Campbell - Democrat - Mayor of Atlanta. Indicted and charged with fraud over claims he accepted improper payments from contractors seeking city contracts.

Frank Ballance - Democrat - Congressman North Carolina. Pleaded guilty to one charge of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and money laundering related to mishandling of money by his charitable foundation.

Hazel O'Leary - Democrat - Secretary of Energy during the Clinton Administration - O'leary took trips all over the world as Secretary with as many 50 staff members and at times rented a plane, which was used by Madonna during her concert tours.

Lafayette Thomas - Democrat - Candidate for Tennessee State House of Representatives in 1954. Sheriff of Davidson County, from 1972 to 1990. Indicted in federal court on 54 counts of abusing his power as sheriff. Pleaded guilty to theft and mail fraud; sentenced to five years in prison.

Mary Rose Oakar - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Ohio from 1977 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor charges of funneling $16,000 through fake donors.

David Giles - Democrat - candidate for U.S. Representative from Washington in 1986 and 1990. Convicted in June 2000 of child rape.

Gary Siplin - Democrat state senator Florida- found guilty of third-degree grand theft of $5,000 or more, a felony, and using services of employees for his candidacy.

Edward Mezvinsky - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Iowa from 1973 to 1977. Indicted on 56 federal fraud charges.

Lena Swanson - Democrat - Member of Washington State Senate in 1997. Pleaded guilty to charges of soliciting unlawful payments from veterans and former prisoners of war.

Abraham J. Hirschfeld - Democrat - candidate in Democratic primary for U.S. Senator from New York in 1974 and 1976. Offered Paula Jones $1 million to drop her sexual harassment lawsuit against President Bill Clinton. Convicted in 2000 of trying to hire a hit man to kill his business partner.

Henry Cisneros - Democrat - U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development from 1993 to 1997. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of lying to the FBI.

James A. Traficant Jr. - Member of House of Representatives from Ohio. Expelled from Congress after being convicted of corruption charges. Sentenced today to eight years in prison for accepting bribes and kickbacks.

John Doug Hays - Democrat - member of Kentucky State Senate from 1980 to 1982 Found guilty of mail fraud for submitting false campaign reports stemming from an unsuccessful run for judge. He was sentenced to six months in prison to be followed by six months of home confinement and three years of probation.

Henry J. Cianfrani - Democrat - Pennsylvania State Senate from 1967 to 1976. Convicted on federal charges of racketeering and mail fraud for padding his Senate payroll. Sentenced to five years in federal prison.

David Hall - Democrat - Governor of Oklahoma from 1971 to 1975. Indicted on extortion and conspiracy charges. Convicted and sentenced to three years in prison.

John A. Celona - Democrat - A former state senator was charged with the three counts of mail fraud. Federal prosecutors accused him of defrauding the state and collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars from CVS Corp. and others while serving in the legislature. Celona has agreed to plead guilty to taking money from the CVS pharmacy chain and other companies that had interest in legislation. Under the deal, Celona agreed to cooperate with investigators. He faces up to five years in federal prison on each of the three counts and a $250,000 fine

Allan Turner Howe - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Utah from 1975 to 1977. Arrested for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute.

Jerry Cosentino - Democrat - Illinois State Treasurer. Pleaded guilty to bank fraud - fined $5,000 and sentenced to nine months home confinement.

Joseph Waggonner Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Louisiana from 1961 to 19 79. Arrested in Washington, D.C. for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute

Albert G. Bustamante - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Texas from 1985 to 1993. Convicted in 1993 on racketeering and bribery charges and sentenced to prison.

Lawrence Jack Smith - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Florida from 1983 to 1993. Sentenced to three months in federal prison for tax evasion.

David Lee Walters - Democrat - Governor of Oklahoma from 1991 to 1995. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor election law violation.

James Guy Tucker, Jr. - Democrat - Governor of Arkansas from 1992 to 1996. Resigned in July 1996 after conviction on federal fraud charges as part of the Whitewater investigation.

Walter Rayford Tucker - Democrat - Mayor of Compton, California from 1991 to 1992; U.S. Representative from California from 1993 to 1995. Sentenced to 27 months in prison for extortion and tax evasion.

William McCuen - Democrat - Secretary of State of Arkansas from 1985 to 1995. Admitted accepting kickbacks from two supporters he gave jobs, and not paying taxes on the money. Admitted to conspiring with a political consultant to split $53,560 embezzled from the state in a sham transaction. He was indicted on corruption charges. Pleaded guilty to felony counts tax evasion and accepting a kickback. Sentenced to 17 years in prison.

Walter Fauntroy - Democrat - Delegate to U.S. Congress from the District of Columbia from 1971 to 1991. Charged in federal court with making false statements on financial disclosure forms. Pleaded guilty to one felony count and sentenced to probation.

Carroll Hubbard, Jr. - Democrat - Kentucky State Senate from 1968 to 1975 and U.S. Representative from Kentucky from 1975 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to conspiring to defraud the Federal Elections Commission and to theft of government property; sentenced to three years in prison.

Joseph Kolter - Democrat - member of Pennsylvania State House of Representatives from 1969 to 1982 and U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1983 to 1993. Indicted by a Federal grand jury on five felony charges of embezzlement at the U.S. House post office. Pleaded guilty.

Webster Hubbell - Democrat - Chief Justice of Arkansas State Supreme Court in 1983. Pleaded guilty to federal mail fraud and tax evasion charges - sentenced to 21 months in prison.

Nicholas Mavroules - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1979 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to charges of tax fraud and accepting gratuities while in office.

Carl Christopher Perkins - Democrat - Kentucky State House of Representatives from 1981 to 1984 and U.S. Representative from Kentucky from 1985 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to bank fraud in connection with the House banking scandal. Perkins wrote overdrafts totaling about $300,000. Pleaded guilty to charges of filing false statements with the Federal Election Commission and false financial disclosure reports. Sentenced to 21 months in prison.

Richard Hanna - Democrat - U.S. Representative from California from 1963 to 1974. Received payments of about $200,000 from a Korean businessman in what became known as the "Koreagate" influence buying scandal. Pleaded guilty and sentenced to federal prison.

Angelo Errichetti - Democrat - New Jersey State Senator was sentenced to six years in prison and fined $40,000 for his involvement in Abscam.

Daniel Baugh Brewster - Democrat - U.S. Senator from Maryland. Indicted on charges of accepting illegal gratuity while in Senate.

Thomas Joseph Dodd - Democrat - U.S. Senator from Connecticut. Censured by the Senate for financial improprieties, having diverted $116,000 in campaign and testimonial funds to his own use

Edward Fretwell Prichard, Jr. - Democrat - Delegate to Democratic National Convention from Kentucky. Convicted of vote fraud in federal court in connection with ballot-box stuffing. Served five months in prison.

Jerry Springer - Democrat - Resigned from Cincinnati City Council in 1974 after admitting to paying a prostitute with a personal check, which was found in a police raid on a massage parlor.

Guy Hamilton Jones, Sr. - Democrat -Arkansas State Senate. Convicted on federal tax charges and expelled from the Arkansas Senate.

Daniel Flood - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1945 to 1947, 1949 to 1953 and 1955 to 1980. Pleaded guilty to a conspiracy charge involving payoffs and sentenced to probation.

Otto Kerner, Jr - Democrat - Governor of Illinois from 1961 to 1968. While serving as Governor, he and another official made a gain of over $300,000 in a stock deal. Convicted on 17 counts of bribery, conspiracy, perjury, and related charges. Sentenced to three years in federal prison and fined $50,000.

George Crockett, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Michigan. Served four months in federal prison for contempt of court following his defense of a Communist leader on trial for advocating the overthrow of the government.

Cornelius Edward Gallagher - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1959 to 1973. Indicted on federal charges of income tax evasion, conspiracy, and perjury

Mark B. Jimenez - Democrat fundraiser - sentenced to 27 months in prison on charges of tax evasion and conspiracy to defraud the United States and commit election financing offenses.

Bobby Lee Rush - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Illinois. As a Black Panther, spent six months in prison on a weapons charge.

Bolley ''Bo'' Johnson - Democrat - Former Florida House Speaker - received a two-year term for tax evasion.

Roger L. Green - Democrat - Brooklyn Democrat Assemblyman. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor for accepting travel reimbursement for trips he did not pay for and was sentenced to fines and probation.

Gloria Davis - Democrat - Bronx assemblywoman. Pleaded guilty to second-degree bribe-taking.

Conspicuous by his absence from this list is William Jennings "Cold Cash" Jefferson

I'm just sayin'.... 

[kimmi]

haha Jerry Springer is on that list!! 

[Ghost of Jaco]

haha Jerry Springer is on that list!! 

I laughed at that, too! He's probably the "most innocent"...certainly the "most funniest" (sic) one on the list!

[dan foster]

If Republicans are so intellectually bankrupt why are we the ones, well Henry and Jaco, doing the research and all you and Ex are doing is making stupid remarks and not backing them up?    And on the moral issue, well, I think you'd better be doing some research.  Start off with Barney Franks.   

Not sure what you are referring to in YOUR research vs MY research.  I accept scientific results.  Not sure what yours is.

What is wrong with Barney Franks?  I think he is pretty sharp.  I don't know his personal life and don't care.  Is there a problem with his morality that has something to do with his service in congress?