WTF, indeed. (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/wtf-is-happening-in-the-oregon-militia-standoff-explained-20160103) :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on January 04, 2016, 10:30:19 AM
WTF, indeed. (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/wtf-is-happening-in-the-oregon-militia-standoff-explained-20160103) :rolleyes:
Y'all Qaeda! :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on January 04, 2016, 10:30:19 AM
WTF, indeed. (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/wtf-is-happening-in-the-oregon-militia-standoff-explained-20160103) :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on January 04, 2016, 06:01:07 PM
Y'all Qaeda! :icon_twisted:
You never know what kind of nuts are lurking out there. Those resistance groups scare me.
Anyway, reading that made me think about something that happened to me when my son and daughter were younger, maybe 10 or 15 years ago. We lived in an apartment complex. Below us there was a young woman with red hair down to her waist who did some singing at a local club. Her live in boyfriend had a classical music background, and performed at the same club. One day she approached me and said they were going to leave her two little children with his parents in Texas and go west (don't remember which state) and join a group of people who were going "underground" -- survivalists, I think she called them. She asked me to go with them because, as she said, my experience in working for doctors (which I was at the time) would make me useful in such a movement.
I thanked her for thinking of me but no thanks. :rolleyes: What I thought but didn't say was that nothing, no one, could make me give up/leave my children.
I've had some interesting offers, but that was probably the most unusual.
I don't know why they don't just close off access to the area, shut off the power and water, and just let whatever 'provisions' they brought along to run out. They would eventually come out.
Quote from: Locutus on January 05, 2016, 11:33:42 AM
I don't know why they don't just close off access to the area, shut off the power and water, and just let whatever 'provisions' they brought along to run out. They would eventually come out.
Don't worry. Those exact things are key components in the FED playbook. They'll get around to it. But I'm sure they don't want another Ruby Ridge or Waco scenario, so they're just trying to wait them out for the time being. :yes:
Quote from: libby on January 04, 2016, 08:53:23 PM
You never know what kind of nuts are lurking out there. Those resistance groups scare me.
Anyway, reading that made me think about something that happened to me when my son and daughter were younger, maybe 10 or 15 years ago. We lived in an apartment complex. Below us there was a young woman with red hair down to her waist who did some singing at a local club. Her live in boyfriend had a classical music background, and performed at the same club. One day she approached me and said they were going to leave her two little children with his parents in Texas and go west (don't remember which state) and join a group of people who were going "underground" -- survivalists, I think she called them. She asked me to go with them because, as she said, my experience in working for doctors (which I was at the time) would make me useful in such a movement.
I thanked her for thinking of me but no thanks. :rolleyes: What I thought but didn't say was that nothing, no one, could make me give up/leave my children.
I've had some interesting offers, but that was probably the most unusual.
I've always made a point of hiring former military in my career, but it can sometimes bring along baggage.
Two of the men presently serving on my team are "survivalists" and they stockpile arms, ammo, and supplies in preparation for the anarchy they are convinced is quickly approaching. The scary part is that there are times when I actually agree with some of their positions. . . :spooked: And I confess to actually doing some of the very same preparations as they are doing / have done. Just not to the extremes they have and are.
I wish I could share some of those conversations I've participated in with them. At times they are downright spooky to hear and know about. . . :spooked:
And I'm with you; there's no way I could leave my grandchildren like that woman you posted about. Nor my own children if they were not adults. :no: If I go off the grid they're coming with me or I won't go!
Quote from: Palehorse on January 05, 2016, 05:51:10 PM
I've always made a point of hiring former military in my career, but it can sometimes bring along baggage.
Two of the men presently serving on my team are "survivalists" and they stockpile arms, ammo, and supplies in preparation for the anarchy they are convinced is quickly approaching. The scary part is that there are times when I actually agree with some of their positions. . . :spooked: And I confess to actually doing some of the very same preparations as they are doing / have done. Just not to the extremes they have and are.
I wish I could share some of those conversations I've participated in with them. At times they are downright spooky to hear and know about. . . :spooked:
And I'm with you; there's no way I could leave my grandchildren like that woman you posted about. Nor my own children if they were not adults. :no: If I go off the grid they're coming with me or I won't go!
I have a friend who served in the military and he's a survivalist. He and his wife have filled up their basement with cans and boxes of survival food they bought off the internet. He also has a stockpile of ammunition and guns. They also bought some land up on the mountain and he's planning on building a home up there for his family in preparation for the coming apocalypse.
Quote from: AbbyTC on January 05, 2016, 07:20:28 PM
I have a friend who served in the military and he's a survivalist. He and his wife have filled up their basement with cans and boxes of survival food they bought off the internet. He also has a stockpile of ammunition and guns. They also bought some land up on the mountain and he's planning on building a home up there for his family in preparation for the coming apocalypse.
Exactly. :yes:
Maybe we should all do like your friend, Abby. Although, I don't know that I could go to that extreme. It is okay to learn survivalist skills but I don't know that I would go to the extremes like some have
Do any of these people actually think that scenario through? The most likely apocalyptic scenario is nuclear war...how is a home on a mountain going to protect against that and what sort of world would it be afterwards anyway?
Quote from: Exterminator on January 06, 2016, 08:03:39 AM
Do any of these people actually think that scenario through? The most likely apocalyptic scenario is nuclear war...how is a home on a mountain going to protect against that and what sort of world would it be afterwards anyway?
Exactly! Especially with the news from North Korea this morning.
Quote from: Exterminator on January 06, 2016, 08:03:39 AM
Do any of these people actually think that scenario through? The most likely apocalyptic scenario is nuclear war...how is a home on a mountain going to protect against that and what sort of world would it be afterwards anyway?
Of course they don't think it through. Emotional bovines rarely do. . . :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on January 05, 2016, 11:13:22 PM
Maybe we should all do like your friend, Abby. Although, I don't know that I could go to that extreme. It is okay to learn survivalist skills but I don't know that I would go to the extremes like some have
Learning survival skills is one thing, going to the extremes of hording food, guns, and ammunition is another. Their food stash is good for 25 years; I have no idea how much ammunition and guns they have.
Quote from: Exterminator on January 06, 2016, 08:03:39 AM
Do any of these people actually think that scenario through? The most likely apocalyptic scenario is nuclear war...how is a home on a mountain going to protect against that and what sort of world would it be afterwards anyway?
That's what I never understood. What help would a mountain home be in a nuclear war? And if somehow you do survive with all your food, etc, when people come for help, will you help them or deny them? It would be a very hard position to be in.
Quote from: AbbyTC on January 06, 2016, 07:57:19 PM
That's what I never understood. What help would a mountain home be in a nuclear war? And if somehow you do survive with all your food, etc, when people come for help, will you help them or deny them? It would be a very hard position to be in.
A mountain "home" is useful only if it is within said mountain in the nuke scenario. Even then it is just a stopgap measure to avoid the eventual death due to fallout; even if you are nowhere near the detonation point. Short term survival of the initial event is increased substantially, however long term survival will be a drawn out death due to radiation poisoning. Even if you have water/food/meds and ammo.
Minus a nuke event, as in the case of anarchy/invasion; defense of higher ground is preferable and can provide distinct advantages.
The survivalist I have seen interviewed on TV and a cousin of mine talk more about the anarchy/invasion event.
Anyone remember the ads for bomb shelters back in the 50's? My dad had plans for one and I remember seeing an ad for a fiberglass/plastic one you pretty much just buried in the back yard.They were supposed to be protection from radiation, "survive a nuclear attack!". Most of us know better now, but that was a different world then.
Quote from: Anne on January 07, 2016, 12:58:58 PM
The survivalist I have seen interviewed on TV and a cousin of mine talk more about the anarchy/invasion event.
I doubt they understand the seriousness of either one of those scenarios either. The most likely catastrophic event will probably be a natural one. I wonder how many preppers there are living in the Pacific Northwest? (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one)
Quote from: Exterminator on January 07, 2016, 01:55:59 PM
I doubt they understand the seriousness of either one of those scenarios either. The most likely catastrophic event will probably be a natural one. I wonder how many preppers there are living in the Pacific Northwest? (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one)
Interesting that you're aware of that, because not many people are. One of my cousins, aunt, and uncle have relocated to the Portland area from Florida. I asked them prior to moving if they had considered the Cascadia Subduction Zone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_subduction_zone) and the earthquake to come. None of them knew about it.
The Pacific Northwest is beautiful with the mountains and volcanoes. However, it's beautiful for a reason, and that reason is going to bite that whole area in the ass at some point in the future. I've read that article that you posted before, and it states:
"...we now know that the odds of the big Cascadia earthquake happening in the next fifty years are roughly one in three. The odds of the very big one are roughly one in ten. Even those numbers do not fully reflect the danger—or, more to the point, how unprepared the Pacific Northwest is to face it. The truly worrisome figures in this story are these: Thirty years ago, no one knew that the Cascadia subduction zone had ever produced a major earthquake. Forty-five years ago, no one even knew it existed."That area is a ticking time bomb, and not too many people know about it. They think the biggest risk to the west coast of the United States is San Andreas.
Quote from: Locutus on January 07, 2016, 02:13:54 PM
They think the biggest risk to the west coast of the United States is San Andreas.
Yep; not even close. :no:
Quote from: Exterminator on January 07, 2016, 02:27:18 PM
Yep; not even close. :no:
It also states in there that the upper limit of San Andreas is an 8.2 event. Because the Richter Scale is logarithmic, the maximum San Andreas quake would only be six percent as strong as the magnitude 9.0 Tohoku earthquake which caused the devastating tsunami and nuclear meltdown in Japan. The Cascadia Subduction Zone is capable of delivering a 9.2 earthquake in a full-margin rupture. That's
very scary, and will be
very devastating.
Now who's moving to Portland? ;D
Quote from: Locutus on January 07, 2016, 02:13:54 PM
Interesting that you're aware of that, because not many people are. One of my cousins, aunt, and uncle have relocated to the Portland area from Florida. I asked them prior to moving if they had considered the Cascadia Subduction Zone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_subduction_zone) and the earthquake to come. None of them knew about it.
The Pacific Northwest is beautiful with the mountains and volcanoes. However, it's beautiful for a reason, and that reason is going to bite that whole area in the ass at some point in the future. I've read that article that you posted before, and it states:
"...we now know that the odds of the big Cascadia earthquake happening in the next fifty years are roughly one in three. The odds of the very big one are roughly one in ten. Even those numbers do not fully reflect the danger—or, more to the point, how unprepared the Pacific Northwest is to face it. The truly worrisome figures in this story are these: Thirty years ago, no one knew that the Cascadia subduction zone had ever produced a major earthquake. Forty-five years ago, no one even knew it existed."
That area is a ticking time bomb, and not too many people know about it. They think the biggest risk to the west coast of the United States is San Andreas.
How many people in that area know about it? And how many think it's that big of a threat? Or are they like people who live in California who know there will be earthquakes, and some severe ones, but live there any way because they love the area?
Quote from: Locutus on January 07, 2016, 02:49:46 PM
Now who's moving to Portland? ;D
I'll say again, New Madrid Fault. . . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811–12_New_Madrid_earthquakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811%E2%80%9312_New_Madrid_earthquakes)
Way overdue to shake things up, and yet. . .
When it does it's next trick, a whole lot of property and people are gong to be damaged. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on January 07, 2016, 07:05:31 PM
I'll say again, New Madrid Fault. . . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811–12_New_Madrid_earthquakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811%E2%80%9312_New_Madrid_earthquakes)
Way overdue to shake things up, and yet. . .
When it does it's next trick, a whole lot of property and people are gong to be damaged. . .
AND, that is why I have got earth quake insurance. I could not afford to have to pay for a new house, because mine was knocked off it's foundation. :yes: :trustme:
Quote from: The Troll on January 07, 2016, 07:20:31 PM
AND, that is why I have got earth quake insurance. I could not afford to have to pay for a new house, because mine was knocked off it's foundation. :yes: :trustme:
Me too. :yes:
Quote from: AbbyTC on January 07, 2016, 06:22:05 PM
How many people in that area know about it? And how many think it's that big of a threat?
It's hard to tell on both of those counts. It's hard to imagine, though, that anyone who knows and completely understands the dynamics of that subduction zone, would consider it anything other than a major threat.
Quote from: AbbyTC on January 07, 2016, 06:22:05 PM
Or are they like people who live in California who know there will be earthquakes, and some severe ones, but live there any way because they love the area?
Well it absolutely is a beautiful area, but it's beautiful for a reason. The very subduction zone that's the threat is the same subduction zone that created the beauty.
As to the residents knowing there will be earthquakes, remember what the article stated:
Thirty years ago, no one knew that the Cascadia subduction zone had ever produced a major earthquake. Forty-five years ago, no one even knew it existed."
That's a very short amount of time in the grand scheme of things. It takes time to educate people. Sometimes, a long time. :wink:
What I found most ominous, having myself stood on the shore at Canon Beach, Oregon while watching the waves lap at the shore, were the closing lines of the article that Ex posted:
"Dougherty's office is deep inside the inundation zone, a few blocks from the beach. All day long, just out of sight, the ocean rises up and collapses, spilling foamy overlapping ovals onto the shore. Eighty miles farther out, ten thousand feet below the surface of the sea, the hand of a geological clock is somewhere in its slow sweep. All across the region, seismologists are looking at their watches, wondering how long we have, and what we will do, before geological time catches up to our own.
This is the inundation zone, and its inherent beauty. This is Cannon Beach, Oregon, and Haystack Rock (the rock to the far right in the picture). Imagine a wall of water 100 feet high coming ashore there. That's a wall of water that would reach halfway up Haystack Rock. If you were standing on the beach there when the shaking started, you would have only about 15 minutes or so to make it to higher ground.
(http://www.theoceanlodge.com/images/photoslide/Haystack-Rock-Cannon-Beach-Oregon.jpg)
Quote from: Locutus on January 07, 2016, 10:36:35 PM
This is the inundation zone, and its inherent beauty. This is Cannon Beach, Oregon, and Haystack Rock (the rock to the far right in the picture). Imagine a wall of water 100 feet high coming ashore there. That's a wall of water that would reach halfway up Haystack Rock. If you were standing on the beach there when the shaking started, you would have only about 15 minutes or so to make it to higher ground.
(http://www.theoceanlodge.com/images/photoslide/Haystack-Rock-Cannon-Beach-Oregon.jpg)
Beautiful scene, fascinating subject!
Quote from: libby on January 07, 2016, 11:30:55 PM
Beautiful scene, fascinating subject!
Did you read the entire article that Ex posted Libby? It's compelling reading. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on January 08, 2016, 06:00:43 PM
Did you read the entire article that Ex posted Libby? It's compelling reading. :yes:
Yes -- it was of particular interest to me. My late husband was a geologist who worked for the Geological Survey.
Actually I saved it. Want to read it again and pass it on to our daughter.
Quote from: libby on January 08, 2016, 10:11:29 PM
Yes -- it was of particular interest to me. My late husband was a geologist who worked for the Geological Survey.
Oh wow! I didn't know that!
Quote from: libby on January 08, 2016, 10:50:16 PM
Actually I saved it. Want to read it again and pass it on to our daughter.
Does she live in the Pacific Northwest? :spooked: ;D
No, she lives in the Richmond, VA area. But she got close. Her husband is from Denver and they lived there for a while when they first got married.
Sounds like the revolution is about over. :biggrin:
These grown men are completely nuts and surly could not have been the armed forces or watched the latest news of how powerful our government is. To think they can defy our government with pissy ass rifles is crazy. When you choose to come out of a car with a weapon drawn against trained to kill FBI agents. You are going to be shot and killed. :yes: But this dumb ass said he was willing to die for his belief. :groan: These Western hillybillies are crazy. :dizzy2: :jester: :cowboy: :ride: :waaa:
They are absolutely nuts. I see their supporters and fellow militia members talking about how it's about to get real and there is going to be a revolution, I have to believe they are all just delusional. Looking at their Facebook pages reveals that most of them are old and fat, not exactly what I would consider a fighting force despite their belief that buying an AR-15 and running around in the woods with their friends makes them "soldiers". Are they also unaware how many fitter, smarter people there are, many of whom have actual tactical training and experience, who are armed and don't subscribe to their warped ideology? They are outnumbered and out-gunned by literally thousands to one...but no one apparently told them there would be math. :wink:
Quote from: Exterminator on January 28, 2016, 03:42:16 PM
They are absolutely nuts. I see their supporters and fellow militia members talking about how it's about to get real and there is going to be a revolution, I have to believe they are all just delusional. Looking at their Facebook pages reveals that most of them are old and fat, not exactly what I would consider a fighting force despite their belief that buying an AR-15 and running around in the woods with their friends makes them "soldiers". Are they also unaware how many fitter, smarter people there are, many of whom have actual tactical training and experience, who are armed and don't subscribe to their warped ideology? They are outnumbered and out-gunned by literally thousands to one...but no one apparently told them there would be math. :wink:
Best assessment ever of the situation. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on January 28, 2016, 05:46:38 PM
Best assessment ever of the situation. :yes:
Agreed. :yes: