CNN is reporting 14 dead; 14 injured. Shooters are on the loose.
A conference room was the primary target where early reports indicate that the county's Department of Public Health was having a holiday party there.
My guess is they were home grown converts to ISIS.
They used long guns. They were driving an SUV.
This whole world is fucked up. . . :rant:
The suspects are presently cornered and shooting it out with the cops . . . :spooked:
I may be wrong, but I'm not sure this is ISIS related. Especially since the Department of Health group was specifically targeted.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 02, 2015, 06:23:09 PM
The suspects are presently cornered and shooting it out with the cops . . . :spooked:
I'm going to have to turn on CNN. :spooked:
Quote from: Locutus on December 02, 2015, 06:25:13 PM
I'm going to have to turn on CNN. :spooked:
They've got at least one of them.
Quote from: Locutus on December 02, 2015, 06:24:24 PM
I may be wrong, but I'm not sure this is ISIS related. Especially since the Department of Health group was specifically targeted.
What I've heard is that it was a developmentally disabled facility.
I don't know it was ISIS related, but it is my automatic assumption. Since they've got at least one of them I suppose we will soon know one way or the other. . .
The holiday party was yesterday according to NBC. . . ???
Now a bomb threat has been phoned into one of the hospitals there. . . They've issued a shelter in place to all businesses and homes in the area and a code yellow alert for bombings.
They're dragging what appears to be a body out of the vehicle with an armored vehicle. . . :spooked:
14 dead, 17 injured. Homegrown terrorists is what I am thinking.
Two things I don't understand about this at this point:
1. If it were a terrorism type of situation, one would think that they would have targeted the public in general, and not just that group that was in the meeting room.
2. If that group was specifically targeted, then what could they have possibly done to have caused three people to become pissed off to the point of shooting them up.
Yeah it seems as if this isn't a "terrorist" attack....sounds like gang related or maybe mob...heck who knows but it has me riveted
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 02, 2015, 07:16:37 PM
Yeah it seems as if this isn't a "terrorist" attack....sounds like gang related or maybe mob...heck who knows but it has me riveted
I hope that at least one of the suspects is taken alive. Otherwise, we may never know the motive(s).
Quote from: Locutus on December 02, 2015, 07:18:52 PM
I hope that at least one of the suspects is taken alive. Otherwise, we may never know the motive(s).
I agree. When this story first broke, and I heard a shooting at a government type building. I didn't realize it was for developmentally disabled people so I can't think why terrorists would shoot those people.
Quote from: Locutus on December 02, 2015, 07:18:52 PM
I hope that at least one of the suspects is taken alive. Otherwise, we may never know the motive(s).
I doubt it will be the case. One confirmed dead, one wounded but holed up in the SUV, and one at large that bailed when the cops hemmed them in.
My guess is they will not be taken alive by design, and if this is the case then it certainly lends credence to a terrorist act; domestic or otherwise.
The real question is, if it is not an act of terrorism, what would bond three human beings together in an act of mass killing? ? ?
Quote from: Palehorse on December 02, 2015, 07:53:48 PM
The real question is, if it is not an act of terrorism, what would bond three human beings together in an act of mass killing? ? ?
Exactly. That's the point I made in my second question above.
Quote from: Locutus on December 02, 2015, 07:08:21 PM
2. If that group was specifically targeted, then what could they have possibly done to have caused three people to become pissed off to the point of shooting them up.
Quote from: Locutus on December 02, 2015, 07:57:49 PM
Exactly. That's the point I made in my second question above.
Disgruntled employees perhaps? (Former).
Three at the same time seems strange. Especially the planning that went into it to act together in concert.
They wore black tactical clothing with hoods or head covering so they were somewhat planned to do this
Yep! They absolutely planned it. It still doesn't answer my two questions though.
Quote from: Locutus on December 02, 2015, 07:08:21 PM
Two things I don't understand about this at this point:
1. If it were a terrorism type of situation, one would think that they would have targeted the public in general, and not just that group that was in the meeting room.
2. If that group was specifically targeted, then what could they have possibly done to have caused three people to become pissed off to the point of shooting them up.
One male, and one female are deceased at the vehicle.
An anonymous federal law enforcement officer said the lead shooter was a U.S. citizen. International terrorism may still be in play as the shooters may have been stirred up by a foreign terrorist group.
One thing I read, if this doesn't have anything to do with terrorism, was a man attended the party and left after making sure a specific target was there. Another post said one man left angrily. Maybe like the post office shooting back in 1986?
These talking heads on CNN are saying terrorism is the most likely scenario given the amount of resources that the FBI is amassing.
Have they caught the other person involved yet?
I don't know that they're really certain that there actually is a 3rd person at this point.
Quote from: Locutus on December 02, 2015, 09:36:16 PM
I don't know that they're really certain that there actually is a 3rd person at this point.
Okay, thanks. I do know they have conducted a search on a house that might have been where the shooters lived or stayed.
Two law enforcement sources identified one of the suspects as Syed Farook.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-up-to-20-shot-in-san-bernardino-active-shooter-sought-20151202-story.html
The other suspect is a Tashfeen Malik. The Syed Farook had been a San Bernardino County employee for 5 years. The news cannot say what the relationship between the two were yet.
A third person has been detained as a person of interest but cannot be confirmed if related.
Courtesy of the San Bernardino Sheriff's Dept. news.
Police now reporting 14 dead, 21 injured. Only two shooters, husband and wife. Man an employee of Department of health, went to Christmas party, seemed nervous, had disagreement with another employee and left party. Couple left baby with grandparents put on their attack clothes, grabbed guns ,2000 rounds of ammo,a pipe bomb and got in the SUV they rented and shot up the party. The home they were renting had several (10 - 15) pipe bombs in it and a lot of bomb making materials. Man was US citizen, woman was Pakistani here on a visa. Both had been to Saudi Arabia. Handguns were legally purchased, long guns weren't.
Workplace violence, domestic terrorism or radical Islamic terrorism?
Quote from: Anne on December 03, 2015, 01:24:58 PM
Police now reporting 14 dead, 21 injured. Only two shooters, husband and wife. Man an employee of Department of health, went to Christmas party, seemed nervous, had disagreement with another employee and left party. Couple left baby with grandparents put on their attack clothes, grabbed guns ,2000 rounds of ammo,a pipe bomb and got in the SUV they rented and shot up the party. The home they were renting had several (10 - 15) pipe bombs in it and a lot of bomb making materials. Man was US citizen, woman was Pakistani here on a visa. Both had been to Saudi Arabia. Handguns were legally purchased, long guns weren't.
Workplace violence, domestic terrorism or radical Islamic terrorism?
Or all 3
Could be, I heard on one of the stations they may have had plans to attack another target due to the amount of explosives they found. Maybe he didn't like his secret Santa gift and decided to shoot up the party, went rogue and didn't follow the plan. We may never know. Neighbors said they noticed strange things going on but didn't report it because they didn't want to be considered racist. Now that, imo, is sad.
I think it is clear that these two individuals were planning a mission of some sort; whether it was this one or something else is yet to be seen.
Thousands of rounds of ammunition is not in and of itself an indication of this, however, when you include the improvised explosive devices found at the scene of the shooting, within the vehicle, and his home, it is fairly clear. This was not in all likelihood the intended target.
A US Citizen that married in Saudi Arabia a woman from Pakistan is not in and of itself an indictment. However, his documented association with known radicalized Islamists both in Saudi Arabia and here within the states serves to infer the fact that the whole marriage was intended as an effective form of camouflage surrounding the planned initiative; perhaps even with the intent of her being an active participant even before the marriage. The attempted destruction of all hard drives, and erasure of all e-mails just prior to yesterdays murders shows they were not alone in this. They had handlers.
These sleeper cells are patient, taking a lot of time to gather the necessary supplies, plan out the execution upon the target, and then carefully choosing the right time. There have been a lot of incidents wherein the individuals were caught beforehand, or in the execution of an act of terrorism, simply because they failed to contain their enthusiasm and remain patient; simply going off outside of the plan and in the view of their handlers failing. And it is highly likely this is exactly what transpired in this case.
You have a radicalized Muslim couple, one of which works daily with individuals of all faiths and religions, that simply lost his cool and decided he was going to take out these infidels he has been hiding amongst for 5 years.
The key fact, if this turns out to be the reality of what transpired yesterday, is that rarely do these sleeper cells not share the same objective with one or more additional cells. Redundancy is typical of such planning, and in reality there may be one of more others, unknown to each other, still planning to execute the original objective sometime in the near future.
The two that died had been amassing supplies for some time. They had built multiple bombs and had the components to construct IED's in their home; so clearly their preparations were unfinished. They had a remote detonation device improvised that was similar in construction to that used by the Boston Bombers at the shooting site, and the remote was found in the vehicle. (The bomb in the facility they shot up, and it was hot).
If they got that far along in preparing for this plan, exactly how far along in the planning preparations are any other cells? And what could be the potential target(s) they were planning to hit?
You can bet your ass they are out there. This pretty much proves it in my eyes. :yes:
Quote from: Anne on December 03, 2015, 05:10:02 PM
Could be, I heard on one of the stations they may have had plans to attack another target due to the amount of explosives they found. Maybe he didn't like his secret Santa gift and decided to shoot up the party, went rogue and didn't follow the plan. We may never know. Neighbors said they noticed strange things going on but didn't report it because they didn't want to be considered racist. Now that, imo, is sad.
Unfortunately that's what happens now with all this politically correct crap going on. What some forget, or don't know, is that a Muslim can make out to be a Christian, or non Muslim, to achieve the end goal if they need to. The people who call those who don't agree with the Muslium ways don't know the difference between a race and a religion either. You are not racist if you disagree with the Muslium ways.
Quote from: me on December 03, 2015, 07:29:49 PM
Unfortunately that's what happens now with all this politically correct crap going on. What some forget, or don't know, is that a Muslim can make out to be a Christian, or non Muslium, to achieve the end goal if they need to. The people who call those who don't agree with the Muslium ways don't know the difference between a race and a religion either. You are not racist if you disagree with the Muslium ways.
Your post exemplifies the ignorance that is feeding the racism this situation is driving. Exactly, what are "Muslim Ways"? (Can you say religious persecution?)
Are you aware that their religious documents parallel old testament teachings of the christian bible? Moreover, they also believe in Jesus. . .
(Post 40000)
Quote from: me on December 03, 2015, 07:29:49 PM
Unfortunately that's what happens now with all this politically correct crap going on. What some forget, or don't know, is that a Muslim can make out to be a Christian, or non Muslium, to achieve the end goal if they need to. The people who call those who don't agree with the Muslium ways don't know the difference between a race and a religion either. You are not racist if you disagree with the Muslium ways.
Muslim. If you are going to write about them, at least spell the name right.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 03, 2015, 07:37:56 PM
Your post exemplifies the ignorance that is feeding the racism this situation is driving. Exactly, what are "Muslim Ways"? (Can you say religious persecution?)
Are you aware that their religious documents parallel old testament teachings of the christian bible? Moreover, they also believe in Jesus. . .
(Post 40000)
Exactly, the Muslim's believe in Jesus and always have!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on December 03, 2015, 08:57:01 PM
Muslim. If you are going to write about them, at least spell the name right.
Typo due to big fingers. I Love the personal attacks when ya'll know I'm right.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 03, 2015, 07:37:56 PM
Your post exemplifies the ignorance that is feeding the racism this situation is driving. Exactly, what are "Muslim Ways"? (Can you say religious persecution?)
Are you aware that their religious documents parallel old testament teachings of the christian bible? Moreover, they also believe in Jesus. . .
(Post 40000)
Example. How is my post feeding racism?
Quote from: me on December 03, 2015, 09:18:02 PM
Typo due to big fingers. I Love the personal attacks when ya'll know I'm right.
You aren't right but continue blessing us with your ignorance.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on December 03, 2015, 09:20:16 PM
You aren't right but continue blessing us with your ignorance.
When you're ready to discuss the issues rather than do a character attack I'll be back.
Quote from: me on December 03, 2015, 09:21:31 PM
When you're ready to discuss the issues rather than do a character attack I'll be back.
When you decide to discuss issues instead of showing us how stupid you are, I will be here. You don't ever discuss any issues, that is what makes you the laughingstock around here.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on December 03, 2015, 09:35:35 PM
When you decide to discuss issues instead of showing us how stupid you are, I will be here. You don't ever discuss any issues, that is what makes you the laughingstock around here.
Well you have a good evening. I'm not Troll and I won't get in a pissing match with you and call names back and forth 'cause it's just plain childish.
Quote from: me on December 03, 2015, 09:46:01 PM
Well you have a good evening. I'm not Troll and I won't get in a pissing match with you and call names back and forth 'cause it's just plain childish.
That's because you never have anything of substance to come up with. Even Troll makes his points in discussions more interesting than you ever did or will.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on December 03, 2015, 09:59:28 PM
That's because you never have anything of substance to come up with. Even Troll makes his points in discussions more interesting than you ever did or will.
I don't know ... I think this post is interesting in that it's absolutely insane ...
Quote from: me on November 29, 2015, 07:41:01 PM
Are you talking Jewish, the race, or Muslim, the religion? A lot of people think if a person is a jew they are Muslim. Not saying you do but it is sometimes what some people assume. They could possibly be like that woman in the video I posted, former Muslims. There is also a difference there.
Quote from: Bo D on December 04, 2015, 09:11:34 AM
I don't know ... I think this post is interesting in that it's absolutely insane ...
A little.insanity is a good thing at times. Lol.
I find it amazing that people want to bash Muslims. There are several in our area and they are some of the hardest working people I know. Deeply religious to their religion but they aren't what I call fanatics.
According to the news today, this couple had left a digital footprint so to speak and had been in touch with some questionable organizations. I would think if Big Brother is watching everyone like so many think that they could have done something sooner. Both families of this couple are surprised at what happened, especially since they left behind a 6 month old baby girl. I think like PH posted, these cells are patient and they are here.
Quote from: Bo D on December 04, 2015, 09:11:34 AM
I don't know ... I think this post is interesting in that it's absolutely insane ...
While I'll agree that most Jews are probably Hebrew (Israelites), I'd like to hear her explain black Jews or Japanese Jews if Jew is a race (while she foolishly admonishes everyone else for not being able to distinguish between a religion and a race).
Quote from: Exterminator on December 04, 2015, 10:29:06 AM
While I'll agree that most Jews are probably Hebrew (Israelites), I'd like to hear her explain black Jews or Japanese Jews if Jew is a race (while she foolishly admonishes everyone else for not being able to distinguish between a religion and a race).
That will be interesting for her to try and explain.
Quote from: Exterminator on December 04, 2015, 10:29:06 AM
While I'll agree that most Jews are probably Hebrew (Israelites), I'd like to hear her explain black Jews or Japanese Jews if Jew is a race (while she foolishly admonishes everyone else for not being able to distinguish between a religion and a race).
Exactly my point. You see the difference there? No one gets called racist for putting down a Jewish person because they, like you, know that's a religion. Muslims are also of different races so what's the deal with calling people racist for being against them? Jews aren't trying to kill us but Muslims are so why not be leery of anyone who is a Muslim? Those Muslims who did the shooting in Ca were nice people, or so everyone thought, but the neighbors were afraid to report the strange things going on at their house for fear of being accused of racial profiling.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on December 04, 2015, 09:34:07 AM
A little.insanity is a good thing at times. Lol.
I find it amazing that people want to bash Muslims. There are several in our area and they are some of the hardest working people I know. Deeply religious to their religion but they aren't what I call fanatics.
Quote from: me on December 04, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Jews aren't trying to kill us but Muslims are so why not be leery of anyone who is a Muslim?
This is probably going to shock you but I agree. Consider the analogy of the purple shirts: let's say you're walking through a crowd of people and someone wearing a purple shirt kicks you. You continue through the crowd and are kicked again, also by someone wearing a purple shirt. As you move further, you are kicked several more times, each one of them by someone wearing a purple shirt. Now, there are lots of people wearing purple shirts who are not kicking you but everyone who has was wearing a purple shirt. Wouldn't you start avoiding people with purple shirts at some point?
Quote from: me on December 04, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Exactly my point. You see the difference there? No one gets called racist for putting down a Jewish person because they, like you, know that's a religion. Muslims are also of different races so what's the deal with calling people racist for being against them? Jews aren't trying to kill us but Muslims are so why not be leery of anyone who is a Muslim? Those Muslims who did the shooting in Ca were nice people, or so everyone thought, but the neighbors were afraid to report the strange things going on at their house for fear of being accused of racial profiling.
Muslim is a religion not a race
The FBI just declared it "terrorism"...Not workplace violence.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 04, 2015, 02:47:38 PM
The FBI just declared it "terrorism"...Not workplace violence.
Of course they did and they're correct. That notwithstanding, it's a pretty weak show of terrorism. I would be ashamed if I went into a place with an assault rifle and a bunch of ammo and the best kill rate I could achieve is seven people. That's pathetic! One of the wounded co-workers was even a Muslim that prayed at the same Mosque as Farook!
Quote from: me on December 03, 2015, 09:19:09 PM
Example. How is my post feeding racism?
Answer MY question first.
Quote from: Palehorse on December 03, 2015, 07:37:56 PM
Your post exemplifies the ignorance that is feeding the racism this situation is driving. Exactly, what are "Muslim Ways"? (Can you say religious persecution?)
. . .
In case you forgot what that question was, I have quoted it above- - -^ (In bold)
Quote from: me on December 04, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Exactly my point. You see the difference there? No one gets called racist for putting down a Jewish person . . .
Anti-Semite?
Quote from: Palehorse on December 03, 2015, 07:37:56 PM
Your post exemplifies the ignorance that is feeding the racism this situation is driving. Exactly, what are "Muslim Ways"? (Can you say religious persecution?)
Are you aware that their religious documents parallel old testament teachings of the christian bible? Moreover, they also believe in Jesus. . .
(Post 40000)
In the here and now you are allowed to be something other than a Christian without the fear of being blown up, having your head chopped off, or, if you're talking about what I think, being stoned. Now answer my question.
Quote from: me on December 04, 2015, 05:53:00 PM
In the here and now you are allowed to be something other than a Christian without the fear of being blown up, having your head chopped off, or, if you're talking about what I think, being stoned. Now answer my question.
Before I can answer your question your answer to mine requires further clarification.
Is your answer (above) intended to imply that it is the "Muslim Way" to blow up, behead, or be stoned?
Quote from: me on December 04, 2015, 05:53:00 PM
In the here and now you are allowed to be something other than a Christian without the fear of being blown up, having your head chopped off, or, if you're talking about what I think, being stoned. Now answer my question.
In the interest of saving our members time as we await your slothful response and evasiveness, for the purposes of my explanation I will assume that you are indeed implying that the above actions are implied when you state "Muslim Ways".
1. Your assumptions are false and ignorant in factuality, and serve no good cause other than to further the nefarious intentions of those who would have all human beings of the Muslim Faith segregated from society or killed on sight. Whether your perspective is based upon willful knowledge or ignorance matters not, for you are indeed spreading falsehoods intended to incite the peoples of the world toward genocide based upon religious persecution.
2. The hypocrisy of your actions/words also serves the very same purposes.
ISIS/ISIL consists of a group of individuals that have chosen to interpret the words within their own religious tome(s) literally; and to impose said interpretations and the prescribed remedies for same upon the world. This doesn't make it right, and this does not mean that in any way, shape, or form, I support what these religious zealots are doing. Let me make it perfectly clear to you; I DO NOT SUPPORT ISIS/ISIL AT ALL!
As I, (and others), have stated herein numerous times, ALL of you religious whack nuts are a clear and present danger to this planet. No exceptions. You have each bastardized the teachings of your multitude of faiths to serve your innate desire for wealth and power and have done so since the beginning of time.
What ISIS/ISIL is doing today is just another case of history repeating itself. As an example of this I submit the following:
Christianity's Old Testament Prescribed Punishments The following transgressions are to be punished by death:
Having homosexual intercourse between men (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13).
Committing adultery between a man and a woman (Leviticus 20:10-12, Deuteronomy 22:22).
Lying about virginity (Deuteronomy 22:20-21).
Being one of the majority of women that don't bleed when losing your virginity (Deuteronomy 22:20-21).
Being the daughter of a priest and practicing prostitution (Leviticus 21:9).
Being male and practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:15).
Being female and practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:16)
Having sex with your father's wife (Leviticus 20:20)
Having sex with your daughter-in-law (Leviticus 20:30)
Having incestual sex (Leviticus 20:17).
Having sex with a woman who is menstruating (Leviticus 20:18).
The following transgressions are to be punished by death via burning rather than stoning:Consuming blood (Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:10).
Eating a cheeseburger or anything that mixes meat and dairy (Exodus 23:19).
Sacrificing anything with yeast or honey (Leviticus 2:11).
Eating fat (Leviticus 3:17).
Eating pork (Leviticus 11:7-8).
Waiting too long before consuming sacrifices (Leviticus 19:5-8).
Eating aquatic creatures lacking fins or scales (Deuteronomy 14:9-10).
Eating any meat not killed according to the Kosher practice (Deuteronomy 12:21).
Trying to convert people to another religion (Deuteronomy 13:1-11, Deuteronomy 18:20).
Practicing magic (Exodus 22:18).
Blaspheming (Leviticus 24:14-16, 23)
Consulting a psychic or spiritualist (Leviticus 19:31).
Being a psychic, medium or spiritualist (Leviticus 20:27)
Being a town that believes in another, non-YHWH god (Deuteronomy 13:12-15).
Being a false prophet (Deuteronomy 13:5, Deuteronomy 18:20, Zechariah 13:2-3)
Going to the temple in an unclean state (Numbers 19:13)
Performing any work on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:10)
Murdering a slave (Exodus 21:26-27)
Striking your parents (Exodus 21:15)
Cursing your parents (Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9)
Being a stubborn, rebellious, profligate, and drunkard son (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
Planting more than one kind of seed in a field (Leviticus 19:19)
Touching the dead carcass of a pig (Deuteronomy 14:8).
Speaking in church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35) – Women only.
Homosexual intercourse between women (Romans 1:27).
And there is a whole lot more than this, but I believe the above to be more than sufficient to support my position here.
Christianity is just as bad as Muslim Islamic religions, which are as bad as all others. You are each just as guilty of inflicting the very same murderous rampages upon humanity as ISIS/ISIL is today; all in the name of "God".
Your parables are plagiarized from the religious texts of one another, and interpretations of said religious tomes are subjective, based upon the desires of those in power at any given time.
And your willful, or ignorant, parroting of the propaganda supports the twin scourges of racism and religious persecution; both battles this nation has fought over, and the world, for centuries and longer.
The facts are, ISIS/ISIL do NOT represent the "Muslim Way" of the world's average individual ascribing to the Islamic - Muslim faiths of the world. In fact, they are looked upon by the average Muslim as the very same murdering zealots the rest of the world sees them as. They do NOT represent the "Muslim Way" in any way shape or form. At least not any more than the above posted Old Testament prescribed punishments / laws represent the worlds average Christian today.
Religion; killing in the name of God since the beginning of time itself.