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Interesting article...   

Cisco CEO Chambers Says U.S. Tax System Is A "Dinosaur"

Mar. 29 2011   

By ERIC SAVITZ     

In case you missed it, Cisco Systems (CSCO) (http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/finance/compinfo/CIAtAGlance.jsp?tkr=CSCO) CEO John Chambers showed up on 60 Minutes (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7360934n&tag=related;photovideo) on Sunday to talk about one of his favorite topics: corporate taxation and the repatriation of profits held overseas.


Some key quotes from Chambers in the piece:

 

   
• "We are dealing with a tax system that is a dinosaur," Chambers told correspondent Lesley Stahl.
• "Every other government in the world has realized that the U.S. has it wrong," he sais. "They're saying, 'I'm going to have lower taxes, period.' That's what you see all across Western Europe, that's what you see in Asia in the developed countries."
• Asked if he's judged as a CEO on issues like taxes, Chambers said, "Absolutely."
• Stahl noted that Cisco has eight companies in Ireland, which has much lower corporate tax rates than the U.S.  "We do what makes sense to the shareholders," Chambers said. "We go where there are incentives in countries that say, 'We want you here, we're going to give you tax advantages, and we want you to add jobs here, etc.' We can no longer in America say, 'This is how we do it, therefore you must do it.' We've gotta change, or we're going to be left behind."
• Chambers repeated his previous pleas for a tax holiday on overseas profits so they can be brought back into the U.S. "We leave the money over there. I create jobs overseas; I acquire companies overseas; I build plants overseas; and I badly want to bring that money back," Chambers told Stahl.
• Chambers said Cisco has almost $40 billion in cash overseas which the company could bring back to the U.S. if there weren't a steep tax penalty to pay for repatriation. ""What is your downside for money that isn't going to come back anyhow? I'd say your downside is zero," he told Stahl.
• And finally, here's Chambers response to Stahl on what would happen if the U.S. cut the corporate tax rate to 20%. "My answer's very simple: every other developed country in the world has already done this. I'm not asking to give me a favor, or a hand out...All we're asking is: Give us a level playing field. Get us close."

  :music1: :cry: crying :music1: :cry: crying :music1: criying over :me:  You give 20% and  then they will want another 20%  Pretty soon they will be sucking all of the money out of this country at no cost to themselves.  :cry: Crying :cry: Crying.  I never seen such big boys cry :cry: so much.  :music1: :cry:

  If these corporations don't want to pay taxes to our government.  Tax the hell out of their stockholders.   :yes: :biggrin:   We need money to run this country and we can't take it out of the ass of every poor worker.  Let's get the Super Rich for a change.  :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

Quote from: The Troll on March 31, 2011, 05:01:39 PM
  :music1: :cry: crying :music1: :cry: crying :music1: criying over :me:  You give 20% and  then they will want another 20%  Pretty soon they will be sucking all of the money out of this country at no cost to themselves.  :cry: Crying :cry: Crying.  I never seen such big boys cry :cry: so much.  :music1: :cry:

  If these corporations don't want to pay taxes to our government.  Tax the hell out of their stockholders.   :yes: :biggrin:   We need money to run this country and we can't take it out of the ass of every poor worker.  Let's get the Super Rich for a change.  :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

The way I see it.......we can be hard headed, and just let things continue OR, we can Oblige them, and return this money and work BACK to our Country...

Troll, IF we was to raise their TAXES.....all they do is raise the cost of the product (pass those taxes on to US, the consumer)...THEY still win, and we still LOSE.

Let's take a hit with those Corp Taxes...let them hire MORE Americans, who will in return, pay MORE fed taxes....it is a win/win.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 01, 2011, 08:20:34 AM
The way I see it.......we can be hard headed, and just let things continue OR, we can Oblige them, and return this money and work BACK to our Country...

Troll, IF we was to raise their TAXES.....all they do is raise the cost of the product (pass those taxes on to US, the consumer)...THEY still win, and we still LOSE.

Let's take a hit with those Corp Taxes...let them hire MORE Americans, who will in return, pay MORE fed taxes....it is a win/win.

  OK, OK, OK,  we reduce the amount of tax of the $2,000,000,000, 2 Trillion dollars they have stored overseas.  JUST ONCE.  Then we need something that will keep them from doing it again.  Or it will happen again and again and again.  :mad:

Quote from: The Troll on April 01, 2011, 09:08:07 AM
  OK, OK, OK,  we reduce the amount of tax of the $2,000,000,000, 2 Trillion dollars they have stored overseas.  JUST ONCE.  Then we need something that will keep them from doing it again.  Or it will happen again and again and again.  :mad:

I say we suspend ALL corperate taxes for ONE year...and watch our economy BOOM.....then restore it around 20% for those who returned....those who did not can stay where they are...


or something along those lines.....we need to give incentives to restore America....and KEEP it here.

  Well, I don't think so, just look at what happened to Anderson when GM stopped paying taxes.  The same thing will happen to every town and city in the United States.  But you can just go and drink some more of the Atomic Kool-Aid :science: :koolaid:   :yes:

  But I do want to ask one question, why is it that none of the oil companies don't pay taxes, GE don't pay any taxes and a whole lot of the largest companies don't pay taxes, HOW!  :confused:

                               :pink:                   :bliss:                   :pink:                      :bliss:                              :pink:

Quote from: The Troll on April 01, 2011, 02:02:24 PM
  Well, I don't think so, just look at what happened to Anderson when GM stopped paying taxes.  The same thing will happen to every town and city in the United States. 

Corporate Tax Rate had nothing to do with Anderson.........The Union pricing themselve out of a job did.......nothing more, nothing less.....that is an undisputable FACT.

 

Quote from: The Troll on April 01, 2011, 02:02:24 PM
But I do want to ask one question, why is it that none of the oil companies don't pay taxes, GE don't pay any taxes and a whole lot of the largest companies don't pay taxes, HOW!  :confused: 

Because of our F'd up tax system..........we allow loopholes...........GE has done NOTHING illegal.....they followed the screwed up laws we have in place....
and before you go blaming repubs, be prepared to back it up................the DEMS had complete control since 2006 and had done N O T H I N G to change it....we need to go to the fair tax system....and we need to do it soon!

  There is nothing fair about the FAIR TAX for the working people.  Have you ever researched the internet for the CON, the bad side of the Fair tax system.  It lets the rich out of paying their fair share of taxes to live in this country.  That's why the rich is for it.

  When I first heard of this fair tax system and it was supported by the super rich.  I smell a dead rat.  So I looked into it and sure enough, the rich will still pay less tax percentage than the common man. 

  You know that's how the rich keep ahead of us.  They make money of every mistake we make.   :mad:

Quote from: The Troll on April 01, 2011, 02:52:04 PM
  There is nothing fair about the FAIR TAX for the working people. 

NOTHING FAIR?.... have you seriously researched it?...........I HAVE!

I am not yet convinced it will not have some hiccups....but, the working class WILL be better off than we are now....the economy will flourish....federal revenue WILL grow....so, THAT is what it amounts too....as far as I am concerned.

If you have something to back that up, ... spit it out.

I'm all ears on this one.....and I am convinced just about ANYTHING is better than our current tax system.

so doing nothing but wanting to tax the rich is NOT a solution to this problem.....the RICH will simply pass their extra tax onto us.

NOTHING will ever change that.....NOTHING.

so let's get real, and do something because I am ready for some economic stimulation....

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 01, 2011, 03:51:18 PM

NOTHING FAIR?.... have you seriously researched it?...........I HAVE!

I am not yet convinced it will not have some hiccups....but, the working class WILL be better off than we are now....the economy will flourish....federal revenue WILL grow....so, THAT is what it amounts too....as far as I am concerned.

If you have something to back that up, ... spit it out.

I'm all ears on this one.....and I am convinced just about ANYTHING is better than our current tax system.

so doing nothing but wanting to tax the rich is NOT a solution to this problem.....the RICH will simply pass their extra tax onto us.

NOTHING will ever change that.....NOTHING.

so let's get real, and do something because I am ready for some economic stimulation....

  I have heard you cluck for along long time.  I know we'll just give up and any one making over $200,000 a year will pay not pay any taxes because they create the jobs.  Hell, there is more of us than them.  We got broad shoulders.  We can handle it. :wink: :smile:  :razz:

  We will just throw are left leg over our left shoulder and the right leg over our right shoulder and kiss :kissit: our ass goodby.

And again, troll can't back up his claims.  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Nighthawk on April 04, 2011, 11:50:21 AM
And again, troll can't back up his claims.  :rolleyes:

  Here we go again.  Mr. Nighthawk.  It is a proven well know fact, even the Republicans will admit to it.  The largest transfer of wealth, money, in the history of America has happen in the 8 years of George W. Bush.

  The tax cuts for the rich, corporate welfare, George H. Bush's NAFTA and the closing of over 6, 000 manufacturing plant at the same time is what caused it.

  I am surprised that you missed that information.  It been on every TV station in the country.  Maybe you were reading too many Far Right Bloggs on the internet.   :yes:  Why don't you also add Link Television to your watching list along with CNN, PBS and MSNBC and increase you knowledge of of politics here in America.

  Clear your mind of all of the crap you got in it and stop watching Fox News.  Watching Fox will damage your brain.  :biggrin:

Troll, YOU are only mimicking what the media keeps telling you, over and over and over.....just more propaganda.....and kool-aid drinking........brought to you by the likes of George Sorros and the the Huffinton Post  ;)

I think it is more likely to state that we NOW have the largest tranfer of wealth from the middle class to the GOVERNMENT in our history....

  Henry where is your brain, out to lunch.   We are paying the lowest federal tax rate in years and years.  Henry you got another tax rate just last year.  Get your head out and breath. 

  Henry, George W. Bush with Obama has cut our taxes to a point we are going broke, you can't spend more than you take in.  We are still fighting George W's two wars and a unfunded drug bill.  Wake up Henry.  I really think you're drinking something else other than Kool Aid.  :science: :koolaid:

Quote from: The Troll on April 04, 2011, 04:03:45 PM
  Henry where is your brain, out to lunch.   We are paying the lowest federal tax rate in years and years.  Henry you got another tax rate just last year.  Get your head out and breath. 

  Henry, George W. Bush with Obama has cut our taxes to a point we are going broke, you can't spend more than you take in.  We are still fighting George W's two wars and a unfunded drug bill.  Wake up Henry.  I really think you're drinking something else other than Kool Aid.  :science: :koolaid:

Are YOU smoking dope?

You just said, you can't spend more than you take in, but yet OBAMA is unwilling to even attempt to try this...the two wars we are STILL fighting and we are on the cusp of a third one....

and btw,

I am not complaining about MY taxes.......THANKS to George W. Bush

What we need is to spur this economy by inspiring the private sector, so the the unemployement rate DROPS producing MORE federal tax revenue....and cutting corp tax WILL, stimulate this economy....

THIS IS A FACT!

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 04, 2011, 04:22:38 PM
Are YOU smoking dope?

You just said, you can't spend more than you take in, but yet OBAMA is unwilling to even attempt to try this...the two wars we are STILL fighting and we are on the cusp of a third one....

and btw,

I am not complaining about MY taxes.......THANKS to George W. Bush

What we need is to spur this economy by inspiring the private sector, so the the unemployement rate DROPS producing MORE federal tax revenue....and cutting corp tax WILL, stimulate this economy....

THIS IS A FACT!

  Henry, cutting business taxes will not create jobs or money in the economy.  The business will just pay their stockholders more money or they will bank it.  Probably overseas.  :yes:

  Cutting business taxes will not create a demand for products.  That just a plain a the nose on your face.  Henry the people of America have been paying for the tax cut for the super rich and they are poor, no money, they are broke.  They can't buy anything.  Why do you think they are flooding Walmart parking lots buying cheap foreign products.  C'mon give  us a break and wise up.

  Why can't you stand up for the common man, just like you.  These rich people wouldn't give you a crumb from their banquet table.   You just don't understand do you.  Where did you pick up all of your shit, a blue collar, union kid.  Wow.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 31, 2011, 03:21:46 PM
Interesting article...   

Cisco CEO Chambers Says U.S. Tax System Is A "Dinosaur"

Mar. 29 2011   

By ERIC SAVITZ     

In case you missed it, Cisco Systems (CSCO) (http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/finance/compinfo/CIAtAGlance.jsp?tkr=CSCO) CEO John Chambers showed up on 60 Minutes (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7360934n&tag=related;photovideo) on Sunday to talk about one of his favorite topics: corporate taxation and the repatriation of profits held overseas.


Some key quotes from Chambers in the piece:

 

   
• "We are dealing with a tax system that is a dinosaur," Chambers told correspondent Lesley Stahl.
• "Every other government in the world has realized that the U.S. has it wrong," he sais. "They're saying, 'I'm going to have lower taxes, period.' That's what you see all across Western Europe, that's what you see in Asia in the developed countries."
• Asked if he's judged as a CEO on issues like taxes, Chambers said, "Absolutely."
• Stahl noted that Cisco has eight companies in Ireland, which has much lower corporate tax rates than the U.S.  "We do what makes sense to the shareholders," Chambers said. "We go where there are incentives in countries that say, 'We want you here, we're going to give you tax advantages, and we want you to add jobs here, etc.' We can no longer in America say, 'This is how we do it, therefore you must do it.' We've gotta change, or we're going to be left behind."
• Chambers repeated his previous pleas for a tax holiday on overseas profits so they can be brought back into the U.S. "We leave the money over there. I create jobs overseas; I acquire companies overseas; I build plants overseas; and I badly want to bring that money back," Chambers told Stahl.
• Chambers said Cisco has almost $40 billion in cash overseas which the company could bring back to the U.S. if there weren't a steep tax penalty to pay for repatriation. ""What is your downside for money that isn't going to come back anyhow? I'd say your downside is zero," he told Stahl.
• And finally, here's Chambers response to Stahl on what would happen if the U.S. cut the corporate tax rate to 20%. "My answer's very simple: every other developed country in the world has already done this. I'm not asking to give me a favor, or a hand out...All we're asking is: Give us a level playing field. Get us close."

Corps, just like the rest of "big money" pay less taxes than the rest of us, and sure as hell don't pay their fair share.  We need to redistribute the wealth back out of the top brackets and into the hands of the middle class from where it has been being stolen over the last 40yrs.  You are a moron.

Quote from: dan foster on April 04, 2011, 09:26:55 PM
Corps, just like the rest of "big money" pay less taxes than the rest of us, and sure as hell don't pay their fair share.  We need to redistribute the wealth back out of the top brackets and into the hands of the middle class from where it has been being stolen over the last 40yrs.  You are a moron.

who is "WE"?  Who decides?  What gives anyone the right to take MONEY from one person and GIVE it to another? NOT our Contsitutiton. YOU are a MORON..............put that in your socialist pipe and smoke it.

Quote from: The Troll on April 04, 2011, 07:11:57 PM
    Cutting business taxes will not create a demand for products.  That just a plain a the nose on your face.  Henry the people of America have been paying for the tax cut for the super rich and they are poor, no money, they are broke.  They can't buy anything.  Why do you think they are flooding Walmart parking lots buying cheap foreign products.  C'mon give  us a break and wise up.

and taking MORE money from the rich and "giving" it to the middle class will NOT spur the eocnomy.  THAT will not create any demand for jobs.

Like it or not, the RICH are the ones who create jobs.  THEY are the ones who will only spend it, if they can profit from it.  THAT is the way the world works...or supposed too.

For the life of me, I do not understand HOW you and your ilk, think that raising taxes is going to create MORE jobs.  We have got to live within our means.....NOT above our means.

Taxing the rich will only force them to pass that cost on to us.....we lose again.

why is this hard to understand?

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 05, 2011, 11:34:19 AM
and taking MORE money from the rich and "giving" it to the middle class will NOT spur the eocnomy.  THAT will not create any demand for jobs.

Like it or not, the RICH are the ones who create jobs.  THEY are the ones who will only spend it, if they can profit from it.  THAT is the way the world works...or supposed too.

For the life of me, I do not understand HOW you and your ilk, think that raising taxes is going to create MORE jobs.  We have got to live within our means.....NOT above our means.

Taxing the rich will only force them to pass that cost on to us.....we lose again.

why is this hard to understand?

  Well tell me Mr. wise ass economist.  Please just tell me how much taxes "YOU", "SUPER RICH and the "CORPORATIONS: should pay in taxes?  Give me a percent. %, %, %, %?

  From the first time I came on the Zone I ran into you.  I thought you were some OLD right wing Christian nut case.  I sure hit that one.  Who was was constantly crying :cry: It's my money and I worked for and I don't want any government agency spending it for anything I don't want it spent for. :cry: Over and over and over it's my money. :cry:  Didn't want to spend a dime for taxes and still don't. :cry:

  I want to know just how much money you want and should in taxes to keep this country, state, county and city running.  C'mon Henry how much do you really want to pay?  What percent on the net income and don't give any stupid bullshit.  :biggrin:

  I thought Scrooge was a tight ass.  You have him beat by a mile.   :biggrin: :yes:

Why should I answer ONE of your questions.....you NEVER answer mine?

First show me where I didn't want to spend a dime for taxes.... (answer, you can't...I have NO problem paying my fair share of taxes)
Why you consider me a Christian nutcase?....have I ever shoved my beliefs on YOU?....(answer...is I HAVE NEVER)

Why do you consider me a tightass?  Because I think the government should quit spending more money than we have?  You think I should pay MORE taxes so we can give it away to politicians to spend on their own state?

I don't think we need to add MORE taxes to our revenue.....How about we slow down our spending to fit what we already HAVE in our revenue?  We have WAY too much waste....why don't we fix that waste FIRST, THEN let's talk about generating MORE money.

Troll, you was spoiled by the Union.  You think other peoples money is there for everyone, if you earn it or not.

I will give you an answer about Corporate tax rates.....suspend them for ONE year, and watch our economy explode.
Then return the rate to around the same rate the are with the rest of the free world is, but crackdown on the creative loopholes that we now have....

YOUR turn mr. wise ass socialist... :razz:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 05, 2011, 01:13:05 PM
I have NO problem paying my fair share of taxes...

Then why shouldn't corporations pay theirs?  My tax burden is twice what the CEO of CISCO is whining about them having to pay.

You would have the corporations pay no taxes or tariffs and have no restrictions on where their labor force resides which is more or less what has already happened.  So how's that working for you?

Quote from: Exterminator on April 05, 2011, 01:34:13 PM
Then why shouldn't corporations pay theirs?  My tax burden is twice what the CEO of CISCO is whining about them having to pay.

I think they should....did you read what I previously wrote?....I say suspend their tax for one year to stimulate this econonmy....then return them to a rate equal to the rest of the world.....without the loopholes.

I think putting the entrepreneurs of this world are best at creating jobs, more so than our political friends in Washington.

I think it's you who doesn't read what you've previously written: "We do what makes sense to the shareholders," Chambers said.

It doesn't say anything here about doing what's best for the work force or doing what's best for America; his only interest is in doing what's best for his shareholders.  I don't really expect you to understand the nuances of corporate finance but your position is ridiculous.  Changing the corporate taxstructure in this country will do nothing except change the corporate tax structure.  Lowering their taxes does nothing to help our economy if any additional workers they hire are in Mexico or China.

Hundreds of billions of dollars changed hands during the housing bubble debacle and many people were made very rich.  Show me the jobs that were created with that wealth?  You can't because it didn't happen and it isn't going to.  Your whole tired spiel about letting these thieves keep more of their money because it benefits the rest of us is nothing but bullshit that has been fed by them to people too ignorant to know they're getting fucked.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 05, 2011, 01:53:36 PM
I think they should....did you read what I previously wrote?....I say suspend their tax for one year to stimulate this economy....then return them to a rate equal to the rest of the world.....without the loopholes.

I think putting the entrepreneurs of this world are best at creating jobs, more so than our political friends in Washington.

  Let's start with you first premise 98% of your top 3% of the super rich are not the entrepreneurs.  The present rich are old money coming from old rich families.  Let's talk about Donald Trump for just one of many.

  I am going to tell you that there is no room for the middle class at the buffet table of the super rich.  In PREDATORY CAPITALISM the top 3% of the people will own all of the big computers, stored information, automation, all manufacturing, all finances and banking, all of the stock market. all of commerce, shipping, trucking, air transportation and all of the big box stores and chain restaurants.  If you know of it and they will own it.  Best of all they will own all of the politicians and Washington DC.

This won't bother me and my ilk.  We will be dead.  But oh "your god" will the future children have it bad.  Working for the lowest wage, living in a company home shopping at the company store.  Remember the American people had this once and the unions saved the day.

  Henry you suck.  :suck:  :suck.  Tell me why you can't root for the middle class once in a while.  :suck: But all you want is PREDATORY CAPITALISM.   :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:

"If there's to be a United States as we've known it, we've gotta get this budget deficit under control. To do that, you can cut spending or raise taxes 88%. Take your pick."... ;)

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 06, 2011, 05:01:53 PM
"If there's to be a United States as we've known it, we've gotta get this budget deficit under control. To do that, you can cut spending or raise taxes 88%. Take your pick."... ;)

  Henry, there is one thing I don't have to worry about is dying.  I not afraid of death and I don't have to worry about what the Republicans are doing to this country because I will be dead before it kicks in. :trustme:

  But you and your kids, that's another story.  If you let your parties, the Tea Party and the Republican Party destroy Medicare, Medicade and Social Security and Unions.  You're going to get old without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out.  Hell in this day and age you can't even count on your kids for help, because they will be poorer than you.  :trustme:

  Because the god damn super rich won't even pay to throw your starved dead body into a slit trench, in a unmarked grave.  :trustme:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 05, 2011, 08:42:54 AM
who is "WE"?  Who decides?  What gives anyone the right to take MONEY from one person and GIVE it to another? NOT our Contsitutiton. YOU are a MORON..............put that in your socialist pipe and smoke it.

Do you pay payroll taxes, dumbass?  Perhaps you too are one of the top 1% that owns most of the wealth in this country.  If not, you might want to figure out how the money has been being taken from YOU and given to Big Money, by the gov't.  Wages have dropped over the last 40yrs for the middle class.  The top 1%'s income has grown over 1000%.  That has happened through our taxes, lack of checks on the financial sector, direct bailouts to the financial sector, imposition of 401k's (so wall street could play with your money, directly) vice former pension programs, higher local taxes (property, etc) that is given back to big corps by the local gov't through both tax breaks and bonds, the lack of regulation of the health care industry where big pharma can rip us all off for designer meds (and push illness to increase profits as well as cure nothing) and big financials (that own all the insurance companies), lower corporate taxes with little regulation that ensures the middle class employees won't get any benefit but that it is better to ship those jobs overseas in order to increase the bottom line.....I could go on and on.  So, what gives them the right to take your money and ensure it is pushed up to the wealthiest?  Nothing.  The gov't just gives them the means.  Call me a socialist, that's fine.  I am a strict constitutionalist, and the Fed (that has enabled our latest sorry state) isn't in there, either.  The Fed works for the big money interests (private and corp), and we are screwed.  The Congress and the White House are just their bag men and dumbasses like yourself are their enablers.   

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 06, 2011, 05:01:53 PM
"If there's to be a United States as we've known it, we've gotta get this budget deficit under control. To do that, you can cut spending or raise taxes 88%. Take your pick."... ;)

Repeal the bush tax giveaway to the rich and we won't have to raise taxes AND cut essential governmental functions.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 05, 2011, 11:34:19 AM

Like it or not, the RICH are the ones who create jobs.  THEY are the ones who will only spend it, if they can profit from it.  THAT is the way the world works...or supposed too.

Well, you are dumber than I thought and firmly brainwashed by Fox and their corp owner.  They lie to you stupid fucks, 24/7 (see NOTE).  The rich don't create jobs.  They will send the jobs overseas in a heartbeat when it raises the bottom line of whatever they are doing.  They (corp) don't care about the jobs or what they are making, or if it serves society or the nation's business.  Their only motive is profit. 

Why do you think the FED made a conscious decision 40yrs ago to go from a 65% manufacturing/35% financial sector to a 65% financials/35% manufacturing economy?  The jobs shipped overseas fit right into that scheme, raising corp profits and increasing the wealth of big money (corp and private).  Big money controls the FED.  You don't.  Why do you think almost no corp offers a pension plan any longer, but 401k's?  Why do you think bush wanted to "privatize" social security?  Why do you think Obama didn't defend the public option on insurance, but now mandates insurance coverage from private companies?  Profit, asshole, and the additional movement of dwindling middle class wealth to the richest few (richest since just before the great depression).  You dumbshits hate unions, etc, but there wouldn't be a middle class in this country without the labor movement that fought that richest few in the aftermath of the depression.  The robber barons of old would die of envy of the theft perpetrated by the current crooks.

Yep, just like your support of bush (the dumbest and the biggest spender, before Obama see NOTE), you really have no basis in reality from which to make any judgement.  I regret your kind are allowed to vote.  You certainly don't meet the ideal of a Jeffersonian, "educated electorate".

NOTE: President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008.

... first is that President Obama's agenda, ambitious as it may be, is responsible for only a sliver of the deficits, despite what many of his Republican critics are saying. The second is that Mr. Obama does not have a realistic plan for eliminating the deficit, despite what his advisers have suggested.

The story of today's deficits starts in January 2001, as President Bill Clinton was leaving office. The Congressional Budget Office estimated then that the government would run an average annual surplus of more than $800 billion a year from 2009 to 2012. Today, the government is expected to run a $1.2 trillion annual deficit in those years.

You can think of that roughly $2 trillion swing as coming from four broad categories: the business cycle, President George W. Bush's policies, policies from the Bush years that are scheduled to expire but that Mr. Obama has chosen to extend, and new policies proposed by Mr. Obama.

Fox News at one point also falsely claimed that Obama's $3.6 trillion FY 2010 budget is "4x bigger than Bush's costliest plan." In fact, Bush submitted a $3.1 trillion budget for FY 2009 and a $2.9 trillion budget for FY 2008.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 05, 2011, 08:42:54 AM
who is "WE"?  Who decides?  What gives anyone the right to take MONEY from one person and GIVE it to another? NOT our Contsitutiton. YOU are a MORON..............put that in your socialist pipe and smoke it.

BTW - over the last 40yrs, Corps have gone from paying more taxes than individuals, to paying less.  A fact you won't hear on Fox.  The Fox really is guarding the hen house comprised of you dumbass, chicken shits.  Chicken shits that Fox and Friends (beck, limpball, et al) can scare with the most obvious lies.  How much gold did you buy when beck cried like a little girl each day on Fox.

Quote from: dan foster on April 09, 2011, 09:42:12 AM
BTW - over the last 40yrs, Corps have gone from paying more taxes than individuals, to paying less.  A fact you won't hear on Fox.  The Fox really is guarding the hen house comprised of you dumbass, chicken shits.  Chicken shits that Fox and Friends (beck, limpball, et al) can scare with the most obvious lies.  How much gold did you buy when beck cried like a little girl each day on Fox.

  Dan, can you believe it that even Fox News couldn't stomach Glen Beck or his sponsors who bailed out like fleas on a drowning dog.  How sweet it is.  You might hear Beck on radio, but you won't see him on TV, just like Limppaw.  You know the guy with half of his brain tied behind his back and the other half on Oxycontin.   :biggrin:

what is wrong with the concept of lower taxes and living with our means?......our government is like a bad marriage...with a wife that loves to spend and a husband who works all the time and gives her credit cards...

the more we make the more we spend......I would not be as opposed if we would clean up the fraudulant recepients of our tax dollars.

also, let's fix this F'd up tax system......we allow TOO many loopholes that allows Corp America to get away with low taxes.

FAIR TAX...FLAT TAX....something else besides what we currently have.....it sucks.

Also, many of you seem to think that Corp Taxes are just for the big guys like GE and BP....but republicans are fighting for the small business....

that employ just over half of all private sector employees...
pay 44 percent of total U.S. private payroll...
represents 98 percent of all employer firms...

THOSE are the guys that we are wanting to help...as well as the democrats....THEY are AMERICA!

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 09, 2011, 10:46:00 AM

Also, many of you seem to think that Corp Taxes are just for the big guys like GE and BP....but republicans are fighting for the small business....

THOSE are the guys that we are wanting to help...as well as the democrats....THEY are AMERICA!

No, corp taxes are corp taxes.  Too bad the big guys pay little or nothing.  GE posted an $18B profit, even with large losses, but paid ZERO taxes on that.  The big guys move their "base" off shore.  Traitors.

There is nothing wrong with a flat tax, or something that is fair.  Right now, it is not and bush made it worse than it already was.  Obama has extended that insult.

Quote from: dan foster on April 09, 2011, 11:23:47 AM
No, corp taxes are corp taxes.  Too bad the big guys pay little or nothing.  GE posted an $18B profit, even with large losses, but paid ZERO taxes on that.  The big guys move their "base" off shore.  Traitors.

There is nothing wrong with a flat tax, or something that is fair.  Right now, it is not and bush made it worse than it already was.  Obama has extended that insult.

  I sure would like to see what pressure is brought against any new president when he first come into office.  It must be like being brought in front of some kind of a World power Star Chamber of all of the super rich and powerful men in the world and saying to him.  You may have won the election, but we run the show.  You see what happen to Kennedy and Reagan with guns. :yes: :yes: :wink:  All of them seem to change in a big way once they win. :cry:

Quote from: dan foster on April 09, 2011, 09:37:19 AM
NOTE: President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008.

Just a reminder, that 2008 federal budget was orchestrated by a democrat controlled house and a democrat controlled senate......and YES! Bush was/is just as guilty.
just thought I would POINT that out to you guys..

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 12, 2011, 04:53:35 PM
Just a reminder, that 2008 federal budget was orchestrated by a democrat controlled house and a democrat controlled senate......and YES! Bush was/is just as guilty.
just thought I would POINT that out to you guys..

  I say boy, did you forget again.  Remember the word filibuster.  The Democrats only had a 3 (53 votes) member majority, in the Senate.  Remember how you Republicans always pulled a filibuster and we had to get 60 votes and your wieners walked in lockstep and stop the vote.  I say boy, boy you got a poor memory. :rolleyes:

  The boy is a few feathers short of a full coat. :yes: :biggrin:

Quote from: The Troll on April 12, 2011, 08:30:33 PM
  I say boy, did you forget again.  Remember the word filibuster.  The Democrats only had a 3 (53 votes) member majority, in the Senate.  Remember how you Republicans always pulled a filibuster and we had to get 60 votes and your wieners walked in lockstep and stop the vote.  I say boy, boy you got a poor memory. :rolleyes:

  The boy is a few feathers short of a full coat. :yes: :biggrin:

Frist of all, let me say that the fillibuster IS a constitutional process that is a legal way for congress to work within the laws.   Leaving the state, and not showing up to work IS against the law set up by congress.

Secondly,  if Obama, Reid and Pelosi HAD an ounce of leadership, they could have got more done, other than trying to SHOVE their agenda down the throats of America.  They held private meetings and locked out republicans on several issues.
the bottom line is.....there is piss poor leadership in Washington.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE MUST BURN THE CURRENT TAX CODE!!!! :rant:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 13, 2011, 10:44:21 AM
THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE MUST BURN THE CURRENT TAX CODE!!!! :rant:

  You sure are right.  Cut all corporation welfare.  No government money going to in rich corporations.  Tax corporations on money they have hidden overseas, like the $4 Trillion they have now and not paying taxes on.  Return Eisenhower tax rate on the the super rich.

  Eliminate all tax loops on taxes and go after the people and corporations that work under the table.  That alone would be worth billions.

  If you make any money any way, you pay taxes on it.  That would solve the deficit.   :yes: :kiss: :chick:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 13, 2011, 08:48:22 AM
Frist of all, let me say that the fillibuster IS a constitutional process that is a legal way for congress to work within the laws.   Leaving the state, and not showing up to work IS against the law set up by congress.

Secondly,  if Obama, Reid and Pelosi HAD an ounce of leadership, they could have got more done, other than trying to SHOVE their agenda down the throats of America.  They held private meetings and locked out republicans on several issues.
the bottom line is.....there is piss poor leadership in Washington.

  With the filibuster being legal, does it make it morally right to use it over a 150 times to try to get your Republican agenda shoved down our throats?   :no: :no: :rolleyes:

  You have tried that old Reid and Pelosi "baloney"on us so long, you're making an ass out of yourself.  They are Democratic leaders shouldn't even try to make gaggle a lock-stepping  dumbass Republican think about the damage they are doing to this country.  Even god couldn't make a sows ear into a silk purse.  Never seen it done have you? :biggrin:

  Henery, did  you hear about the super rich people and corporations.  They can buy a jet aircraft, made anywhere, overseas and depreciate the entire cost of it the first year.  How about that Henery?  More welfare for the rich, and the corporations.  :yes: :rolleyes: :razz:

Quote from: The Troll on April 14, 2011, 09:24:07 AM
  Henery, did  you hear about the super rich people and corporations.  They can buy a jet aircraft, made anywhere, overseas and depreciate the entire cost of it the first year.  How about that Henery?  More welfare for the rich, and the corporations.  :yes: :rolleyes: :razz:

so it needs to be changed.....why don't the dems change it?............because they are ALL owned by lobbyiests who bought these tax breaks....

I say all of congress....REPUBS and DEMS need to be pressured to change the tax code....burn it and start over.....I agree that everyone MUST be paying a "fair" tax.....

remember corp welfare is NOT a republican thing..........the dems gave money to Chase Bank, GE and GM....

I will 100% agree with you......I would love for you to just admit that the DEMS are just as guilty with wrecking things.....(actually MORE guilty, but I would love for you to just say they are guilty) ..... THEY ALL SUCK, when it gets down to it....

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 14, 2011, 09:40:12 AM
so it needs to be changed.....why don't the dems change it?............because they are ALL owned by lobbyiests who bought these tax breaks....

I say all of congress....REPUBS and DEMS need to be pressured to change the tax code....burn it and start over.....I agree that everyone MUST be paying a "fair" tax.....

remember corp welfare is NOT a republican thing..........the dems gave money to Chase Bank, GE and GM....

I will 100% agree with you......I would love for you to just admit that the DEMS are just as guilty with wrecking things.....(actually MORE guilty, but I would love for you to just say they are guilty) ..... THEY ALL SUCK, when it gets down to it....

  Just like Obama said yesterday, that extra 10% tax cut you Republicans want to give the rich.  Means an extra $200,000 for him. 

  That means when you're guys, the Republicans cut Medicare.  It will cost 33 senior citizens an extra $6,000 in medical insurance insurance payments, a year, just to make up for the $200,000 you're giving Obama.   :yes: :rolleyes: :razz:  Damn you're good people.  :razz: :razz: :razz:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 12, 2011, 04:53:35 PM
Just a reminder, that 2008 federal budget was orchestrated by a democrat controlled house and a democrat controlled senate......and YES! Bush was/is just as guilty.
just thought I would POINT that out to you guys..

You stupid fuck.  When its big deficit spending under bush, the dems did it, but if it is big deficit spending under obama, it's his fucking fault?  You crazy mutherfuckers  really are a piece of work.  You have watched fox for so long, you really have no idea what reality is.  Fox said obama added more debt than the last 26 presidents; a total lie, but they fart and your mouth moves.  Bush's 2009 budget?  $1Trillion.  Obamas 2010 budget? $1.1Trillion.  Show me the expansion of the debt with Obama beyond the .1T.  He inherited bush's AND the republican's fucking spending spree and that's his fault, too?  It really is sad you are allowed to vote (wishfully thinking your aren't).
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/Smileys3/default/rant.gif
 

Quote from: dan foster on April 21, 2011, 09:14:50 PM
It really is sad you are allowed to vote...

That's it in a nutshell.

Quote from: dan foster on April 21, 2011, 09:14:50 PM
You stupid fuck.  When its big deficit spending under bush, the dems did it, but if it is big deficit spending under obama, it's his fucking fault?  You crazy mutherfuckers  really are a piece of work.  You have watched fox for so long, you really have no idea what reality is.  Fox said obama added more debt than the last 26 presidents; a total lie, but they fart and your mouth moves.  Bush's 2009 budget?  $1Trillion.  Obamas 2010 budget? $1.1Trillion.  Show me the expansion of the debt with Obama beyond the .1T.  He inherited bush's AND the republican's fucking spending spree and that's his fault, too?  It really is sad you are allowed to vote (wishfully thinking your aren't).
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/Smileys3/default/rant.gif

  I say son, you sure have a way with words.  Hee, Hee,  Hee.  Ya hear me son, you sure can pick a chicken,  Hawk that is.  Hee, Hee, Hee, You all sure can tell this boy ain't slow. :thumbsup.

Quote from: The Troll on April 22, 2011, 03:40:59 PM
  I say son, you sure have a way with words.  Hee, Hee,  Hee.  Ya hear me son, you sure can pick a chicken,  Hawk that is.  Hee, Hee, Hee, You all sure can tell this boy ain't slow. :thumbsup.

All in good fun, though  :angel:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/exxon-mobil-profit-soars-along-with-gas-prices/2011/04/28/AF1gWG7E_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/exxon-mobil-profit-soars-along-with-gas-prices/2011/04/28/AF1gWG7E_story.html)

"Exxon Mobil reported a first-quarter profit Thursday of $10.7 billion, a 69 percent jump from the year before as higher crude oil prices, fatter U.S. oil refining and marketing margins, and a revival in global demand for petrochemicals boosted earnings.

Royal Dutch Shell also reported higher profits. Excluding one-time items and inventory gains, Shell earned $6.3 billion, up 30 percent from the first quarter of 2010 . . ."
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Quote from: Palehorse on April 28, 2011, 08:19:43 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/exxon-mobil-profit-soars-along-with-gas-prices/2011/04/28/AF1gWG7E_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/exxon-mobil-profit-soars-along-with-gas-prices/2011/04/28/AF1gWG7E_story.html)

"Exxon Mobil reported a first-quarter profit Thursday of $10.7 billion, a 69 percent jump from the year before as higher crude oil prices, fatter U.S. oil refining and marketing margins, and a revival in global demand for petrochemicals boosted earnings.

Royal Dutch Shell also reported higher profits. Excluding one-time items and inventory gains, Shell earned $6.3 billion, up 30 percent from the first quarter of 2010 . . ."
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Now oil has dropped on the word of been laidin's death.  So, gas won't come down as it is tied to supply and demand, not oil prices as when it when it went up ;>)  Fucking hoaxes by big oil, all around. 

Quote from: dan foster on May 02, 2011, 10:51:44 PM
Now oil has dropped on the word of been laidin's death.  So, gas won't come down as it is tied to supply and demand, not oil prices as when it when it went up ;>)  Fucking hoaxes by big oil, all around.

   Several years ago when the oil companies put automatic, lighted price signs and some stations have a direct hookup to the main office for price change.  I told my wife hang on, price changes every day, every hour.

  Other thing, why have that stupid 9/10 cents on the price of gas.  Get rid of it.  Instead of  $4.109/10 make it $4.11.

  One thing the public doesn't understand the oil companies make around 12 percent on each gallon.  $2 gas they make 24 cents.  $4 gas they 48 cents on a gallon of gas.  Double the money on gas, for doing nothing.  Not one thing extra in their operations of selling gas.  Go figure who the :turk: are.  The American people and we are giving them tax money to screw us.

Then we have the state of Indiana making 6% on each gallon of gas.  That is 12 cents on $2 gas and 24 cents on a gallon of gas at $4.  We need a little revolt against the percent gougers.   :mad: :rant:  Getting rich off of inflation. :finger2: :azz: How can they lose?

I guess none of you bought gasoline today have you? I saw reg unleaded selling for $4.26/gal in Delaware and Madison counties last night and this afternoon as well; putting it just .03 under diesel. . . And the price of oil per barrel dropped?

Yeah, the oil companies are riding us hard and putting us away wet. And now they're treating diesel and gasoline equally!  :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Quote from: Palehorse on May 03, 2011, 06:30:21 PM
I guess none of you bought gasoline today have you? I saw reg unleaded selling for $4.26/gal in Delaware and Madison counties last night and this afternoon as well; putting it just .03 under diesel. . . And the price of oil per barrel dropped?

Yeah, the oil companies are riding us hard and putting us away wet. And now they're treating diesel and gasoline equally!  :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

  With the big reduction in military flights.  An F-18 uses 1580 gallons an hour, that's without using afterburners.  They have figured that the fly over of the Super Bowl cost the taxpayers $450,000.  The reason that diesel has dropped is there is an extra supply of fuel oil.  :yes:

  If you filled up your F-18 at your filling station.  It would cost you $6,778.20 an hour to fly your F-18.  Happy flying.  :biggrin:

  The reason the price hasn't went down is the super rich is playing in the oil commodity market.   :yes:  The money they make on that oil only cost them 15% in taxes.  So go figure.   :wink: :smile:

Quote from: The Troll on May 03, 2011, 10:51:23 PM
  With the big reduction in military flights.  An F-18 uses 1580 gallons an hour, that's without using afterburners.  They have figured that the fly over of the Super Bowl cost the taxpayers $450,000.  The reason that diesel has dropped is there is an extra supply of fuel oil.  :yes:

  If you filled up your F-18 at your filling station.  It would cost you $6,778.20 an hour to fly your F-18.  Happy flying.  :biggrin:

  The reason the price hasn't went down is the super rich is playing in the oil commodity market.   :yes:  The money they make on that oil only cost them 15% in taxes.  So go figure.   :wink: :smile:

Big oil (like big pharma, big financials (aka insurance)) all own the majority of politicians and they won't ever have to pay their fair share into this society; a fixed game.  But they all have great advertising.  Just watch how they all talk so much about how they are helping the world.  Hell, BP is even claiming the gulf is back to normal and better than ever.  Fuck!

  Tell me Dan, what do you make of this.  The other night there was an independent oil expert on TV.  He said there was an oil glut here in the USA, China and Europe.  The oceans are filled with super tankers filled to the brim with oil.

  My question to you why is gas over $4 a gallon.  I was taught the was a thing called supply and demand.  The more commodity the lower the price.  Go figure.  Hummmmmmmmm?

Quote from: The Troll on May 11, 2011, 10:10:52 AM
  Tell me Dan, what do you make of this.  The other night there was an independent oil expert on TV.  He said there was an oil glut here in the USA, China and Europe.  The oceans are filled with super tankers filled to the brim with oil.

  My question to you why is gas over $4 a gallon.  I was taught the was a thing called supply and demand.  The more commodity the lower the price.  Go figure.  Hummmmmmmmm?

The market is being manipulated just like it was during the Bush administration but for a different reason.  What's so hard to understand about that Troll?

Quote from: me on May 11, 2011, 03:07:54 PM
The market is being manipulated just like it was during the Bush administration but for a different reason.  What's so hard to understand about that Troll?

  But Mrs. ME, the cause is deregulation.  The same deregulations that the Republicans put in.  Which caused the fall of Enron, Tyco, the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, the housing fiasco, the bank fraud and the stock market thefts.  When you  deregulate the Republicans thieves come out of the woodwork and they will steal anything that is not regulated or locked up. :sneaky:  sneaky bastards. :yes: :razz:  You just not get it and won't see it.  No matter now we try we can't get through that Titanium skull. :dead:

Quote from: The Troll on May 11, 2011, 04:35:32 PM
  But Mrs. ME, the cause is deregulation.  The same deregulations that the Republicans put in.  Which caused the fall of Enron, Tyco, the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, the housing fiasco, the bank fraud and the stock market thefts.  When you  deregulate the Republicans thieves come out of the woodwork and they will steal anything that is not regulated or locked up. :sneaky:  sneaky bastards. :yes: :razz:  You just not get it and won't see it.  No matter now we try we can't get through that Titanium skull. :dead:

What????????  If I'm not mistaken the Obama administration has put a ton of regulations into place. I think the Dr. dropped you on your little head when you were born.

Oh wait that was regulations to keep them from producing period.....silly me...wonder why that might drive the price up....

Quote from: me on May 11, 2011, 04:41:18 PM
Oh wait that was regulations to keep them from producing period.....silly me...wonder why that might drive the price up....

  There you go again, as Reagan would say.  It seems that Old George W. gave a blank check at the end of his term to the banks.  You know the ones that are to big to fail.  :biggrin: what has ran up to a Trillion dollars.  How about that? Sugary Lump.

  I say girl that space between your ears could be used as a wind tunnel.  NASA certified, I say a windy blow horn, big girl.  Hee, hee, hee.  :chick:

Quote from: The Troll on May 11, 2011, 04:57:29 PM
  There you go again, as Reagan would say.  It seems that Old George W. gave a blank check at the end of his term to the banks.  You know the ones that are to big to fail.  :biggrin: what has ran up to a Trillion dollars.  How about that? Sugary Lump.

  I say girl that space between your ears could be used as a wind tunnel.  NASA certified, I say a windy blow horn, big girl.  Hee, hee, hee.  :chick:

Source?  National Enquirer and Huffington Post doesn't count and neither does "I heard it somewhere".

Quote from: me on May 11, 2011, 06:38:44 PM
Source?  National Enquirer and Huffington Post doesn't count and neither does "I heard it somewhere".

  Just go back and read the Congressional report and read the things George W. did his last week in office.  It's all there.  Honey poo.  One of the problems, they don't know how much he gave the banks.  Since there were no strings of in or a pay back time.  Go figure.  Lamb Chop.  :thumbsup:  :biggrin:

Quote from: The Troll on May 11, 2011, 09:54:10 PM
  Just go back and read the Congressional report and read the things George W. did his last week in office.  It's all there.  Honey poo.  One of the problems, they don't know how much he gave the banks.  Since there were no strings of in or a pay back time.  Go figure.  Lamb Chop.  :thumbsup:  :biggrin:

The dem congress voted for it and all Bush did was sign it so don't go layin' it all on his shoulders. 

Quote from: me on May 13, 2011, 01:31:37 PM
The dem congress voted for it and all Bush did was sign it so don't go layin' it all on his shoulders.

  There you go Lambie Doodle.  Just like he, that is George W. DIDN'T GET OSAMA BIN LADEN.  GEORGE W. GAVE THE BANKS A TRILLION DOLLARS and we won't get any of it back.  Hee, hee, hee.  I say she sure is slow. Again and again and again I say she's slow.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :seeya1:  :dark:

Quote from: The Troll on May 13, 2011, 04:17:59 PM
  There you go Lambie Doodle.  Just like he, that is George W. DIDN'T GET OSAMA BIN LADEN.  GEORGE W. GAVE THE BANKS A TRILLION DOLLARS and we won't get any of it back.  Hee, hee, hee.  I say she sure is slow. Again and again and again I say she's slow.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :seeya1:  :dark:

You really thing a democrat controlled congress would let him just hand over a trillion dollars without any kind of approval??????  You reallly have hit your head Troll.  I sure wish you'd quit pickin' this stuff outta yer ass it's really gettin' old.

Quote from: me on May 13, 2011, 05:12:50 PM
You really thing a democrat controlled congress would let him just hand over a trillion dollars without any kind of approval??????  You reallly have hit your head Troll.  I sure wish you'd quit pickin' this stuff outta yer ass it's really gettin' old.

  Slow, Slow, Slow.  The president don't have to sign anything.  You know that. don't play the that lobotomy operation you had, on me, :me:

Quote from: The Troll on May 13, 2011, 05:50:52 PM
  Slow, Slow, Slow.  The president don't have to sign anything.  You know that. don't play the that lobotomy operation you had, on me, :me:

But he can't do things like that without congress approving either. 

I don't understand your rational.  If it's a dem congress and a republican president and things go wrong it's the presidents fault but if it's a republican congress and a dem president and things go right it's all the presidents doing.  And by the same token if it's a republican president and a dem congress and things go right it's all the congress but if it's a....well you get the idea....ya can't have it both ways in spite of how hard you try. 

Quote from: me on May 13, 2011, 08:00:25 PM
But he can't do things like that without congress approving either. 

I don't understand your rational.  If it's a dem congress and a republican president and things go wrong it's the presidents fault but if it's a republican congress and a dem president and things go right it's all the presidents doing.  And by the same token if it's a republican president and a dem congress and things go right it's all the congress but if it's a....well you get the idea....ya can't have it both ways in spite of how hard you try.

  With the blinder you got on, Old Paint.  Bill Clinton was president and he wouldn't sign bad bill the Republicans wanted and it was the same way for the Republican and we end up with money in the bank.  Old Bill was the best President you Republicans ever had.

  With the dummy George W.  he signed everything the Republicans wanted, he never vetoed any Republican bills, not one.  And his free spending, two wars and deregulation and free trade treaties.  Hell he broke the country.  And just think Chunky Cheeze you voted for him twice.  If you were a cupcake, you would be a DING DONG.  :rotfl: :grin2:

Quote from: The Troll on May 13, 2011, 09:28:37 PM
  With the blinder you got on, Old Paint.  Bill Clinton was president and he wouldn't sign bad bill the Republicans wanted and it was the same way for the Republican and we end up with money in the bank.  Old Bill was the best President you Republicans ever had.

  With the dummy George W.  he signed everything the Republicans wanted, he never vetoed any Republican bills, not one.  And his free spending, two wars and deregulation and free trade treaties.  Hell he broke the country.  And just think Chunky Cheeze you voted for him twice.  If you were a cupcake, you would be a DING DONG.  :rotfl: :grin2:

Bush did not just hand over a blank check to the banks Troll.  He signed a bill the dems wanted because they said it would help stimulate the economy and a portion was given to them during his administration.  The second installment and others have been given to the banks during Obama's administration and if there was something so wrong with the bill why wasn't it changed before the rest of the installments were given?  The regulations that have been put into place have only hurt the people who pay their bills by raising their credit card interest, more bank fees, and making it harder to get loans.

  Dream on Love boat, you ship is slowly sinking in the West.  The Ship of Lost Dreams is the name of you boat and the one your on now is the :titanic:

Quote from: The Troll on May 13, 2011, 11:41:35 PM
  Dream on Love boat, you ship is slowly sinking in the West.  The Ship of Lost Dreams is the name of you boat and the one your on now is the :titanic:

From what I'm seeing the whole country is on that boat with me it's just that some are blind to that fact.

Quote from: me on May 14, 2011, 04:17:17 AM
From what I'm seeing the whole country is on that boat with me it's just that some are blind to that fact.

  Well Patty Cake, you ran one business into the ground.  Why wouldn't you be for the Republicans who ran the country into the ground. :gha: :biggrin:

Quote from: The Troll on May 14, 2011, 09:45:59 AM
  Well Patty Cake, you ran one business into the ground.  Why wouldn't you be for the Republicans who ran the country into the ground. :gha: :biggrin:

And which one would that be and exactly how did I do that? 

Quote from: me on May 14, 2011, 10:20:21 AM
And which one would that be and exactly how did I do that?

  It came right out of your mouth.  When I first came on the Zone you said you had made one big mistake with you business and you had to close it up.  Are you lying to me now or were you lying to me then.  Aah, It wouldn't mean anything now.  I wouldn't trust or believe you, even if your forked tongue was notarized.  :rolleyes: :smile: :yes:  That's how much I have grown to :love: you.  :eek:

Quote from: The Troll on May 14, 2011, 12:19:06 PM
  It came right out of your mouth.  When I first came on the Zone you said you had made one big mistake with you business and you had to close it up.  Are you lying to me now or were you lying to me then.  Aah, It wouldn't mean anything now.  I wouldn't trust or believe you, even if your forked tongue was notarized.  :rolleyes: :smile: :yes:  That's how much I have grown to :love: you.  :eek:

Ah that.  Well, to make a long story short I could not get good help, the pay was quite good for the type of job it was, and the ones I had chose to drink on the job and I decided to close rather than put up with the hassle.  From there on the rest is nonya. 

What does my having been a business owner have to do with anything involving corporation taxes anyway?  I was paying a high amount of taxes for the amount I was bringing in which looked good on paper but wasn't a true of actual cash in my pocket.  My employee's made more than I did which is just wrong any way you look at it.  I worked right along side them and worked just as hard or harder than they did so don't come back at me with that "you just sat on your ass and raked in the dough while they did all the work" crap.

Quote from: me on May 14, 2011, 01:09:53 PM
Ah that.  Well, to make a long story short I could not get good help, the pay was quite good for the type of job it was, and the ones I had chose to drink on the job and I decided to close rather than put up with the hassle.  From there on the rest is nonya. 

What does my having been a business owner have to do with anything involving corporation taxes anyway?  I was paying a high amount of taxes for the amount I was bringing in which looked good on paper but wasn't a true of actual cash in my pocket.  My employee's made more than I did which is just wrong any way you look at it.  I worked right along side them and worked just as hard or harder than they did so don't come back at me with that "you just sat on your ass and raked in the dough while they did all the work" crap.

  A good business plan is that you have to take care of yourself first, a fair day work for a fair days work.  If you can't make a profit you're doing something wrong.  You are not managing it right.  Your are not charging enough.  If you can't run a business where you have to do it with slave labor, even if it is yourself.  Then that business is not the business to be in.  It doesn't need to exist.

  Right now the corporations are using slave labor from other countries at our workers expense and our country expense.  It isn't right and it isn't fair.  Slavery in the United States is illegal.  And these companies that are using it needs to be put out of their slavery game.   Some body say Amen. :flag:

Quote from: The Troll on May 14, 2011, 01:51:37 PM
  A good business plan is that you have to take care of yourself first, a fair day work for a fair days work.  If you can't make a profit you're doing something wrong.  You are not managing it right.  Your are not charging enough.  If you can't run a business where you have to do it with slave labor, even if it is yourself.  Then that business is not the business to be in.  It doesn't need to exist.

  Right now the corporations are using slave labor from other countries at our workers expense and our country expense.  It isn't right and it isn't fair.  Slavery in the United States is illegal.  And these companies that are using it needs to be put out of their slavery game.   Some body say Amen. :flag:

Like I said I made a long story short and there are details which I do not care to divulge that would explain why the situation was what it was, as you dems are so fond of saying, the situation was not entirely my fault or my doing it was something that had gotten waaaay too far out of hand and I just didn't have the time or personality to deal with it.  I am not boss material I am a peon and proud of it and I don't even desire to be a boss. I'd much rather work and get dirty than sit on my ass and give directions to other people.

Quote from: The Troll on May 14, 2011, 01:51:37 PM
  A good business plan is that you have to take care of yourself first, a fair day work for a fair days work.  If you can't make a profit you're doing something wrong.  You are not managing it right.  Your are not charging enough.  If you can't run a business where you have to do it with slave labor, even if it is yourself.  Then that business is not the business to be in.  It doesn't need to exist.

  Right now the corporations are using slave labor from other countries at our workers expense and our country expense.  It isn't right and it isn't fair.  Slavery in the United States is illegal.  And these companies that are using it needs to be put out of their slavery game.   Some body say Amen. :flag:

So, GM needs to be put out of business then??

Quote from: me on May 14, 2011, 04:06:13 PM
Like I said I made a long story short and there are details which I do not care to divulge that would explain why the situation was what it was, as you dems are so fond of saying, the situation was not entirely my fault or my doing it was something that had gotten waaaay too far out of hand and I just didn't have the time or personality to deal with it.  I am not boss material I am a peon and proud of it and I don't even desire to be a boss. I'd much rather work and get dirty than sit on my ass and give directions to other people.

  Everybody is like somebody else.  We have some.  I had a desk job in the army.  Had my own section of the information office drove all of the newspaper reporters and the officers around and wore class A Uniforms ever day with tie.  I would not want to be tied to a desk again.  I will do about anything, sweat, get very dirty even with human feces.   But I will want good money to do it.  No shitty slave pay.

  I ran my little plumbing Co. by myself for over 40 years and believe me I took care of myself pay wise.  Why work for nothing.  There are people who wants everything for nothing and  they will work you to bankruptcy.  Then they will say, he was a good plumber, but I wonder how long he would last working for nothing and then laugh about it.

  But you are a good Republican, because just like you said.  "I wasn't my fault."  Nothing is ever the Republicans fault.  :biggrin:

Quote from: Nighthawk on May 14, 2011, 04:12:04 PM
So, GM needs to be put out of business then??

  Ugly weak footed bird.  What people does GM work for slave wages here in America?  Can you, just one time come out of you little outer space world and say something smart.  You really can't be as stupid as you appear.  :doh:  :flap:

  It would be really nice to talk to someone who tried to act like they had a brain.  I keep hoping you will wise.  Hope is eternal.   You are just like the Tea Party Republicans, you will never wise up.  What more can I say.  :4th5:

Quote from: The Troll on May 14, 2011, 04:35:14 PM
  Ugly weak footed bird.  What people does GM work for slave wages here in America?  Can you, just one time come out of you little outer space world and say something smart.  You really can't be as stupid as you appear.  :doh:  :flap:

  It would be really nice to talk to someone who tried to act like they had a brain.  I keep hoping you will wise.  Hope is eternal.   You are just like the Tea Party Republicans, you will never wise up.  What more can I say.  :4th5:

You said any business that uses slave labor should be closed and GM uses 'slave' labor. So, again, should GM be closed?

Quote from: Nighthawk on May 14, 2011, 04:41:21 PM
You said any business that uses slave labor should be closed and GM uses 'slave' labor. So, again, should GM be closed?

  Come on, tell he where GM uses slave labor.  If you can't tell me.  GM doesn't import any cars expect Canada and Europe.  I don't think you can call they slave countries.  Cut the bullshit give me a straight answer.   What a mooorooon.  :rolleyes: Or are you picking fly shit out of the black pepper again.  :razz:

Quote from: The Troll on May 14, 2011, 04:24:26 PM
  Everybody is like somebody else.  We have some.  I had a desk job in the army.  Had my own section of the information office drove all of the newspaper reporters and the officers around and wore class A Uniforms ever day with tie.  I would not want to be tied to a desk again.  I will do about anything, sweat, get very dirty even with human feces.   But I will want good money to do it.  No shitty slave pay.

  I ran my little plumbing Co. by myself for over 40 years and believe me I took care of myself pay wise.  Why work for nothing.  There are people who wants everything for nothing and  they will work you to bankruptcy.  Then they will say, he was a good plumber, but I wonder how long he would last working for nothing and then laugh about it.

  But you are a good Republican, because just like you said.  "I wasn't my fault."  Nothing is ever the Republicans fault.  :biggrin:

So what you're doing in essence is putting me down because you think you're better than me because you feel your time is worth more and I felt I wanted to keep prices down so more people could afford my service and still be able to pay my employee's more and wasn't quite able to manage it and still have a clean conscience.  Is that correct? 

Quote from: The Troll on May 14, 2011, 04:54:29 PM
  Come on, tell he where GM uses slave labor.  If you can't tell me.  GM doesn't import any cars expect Canada and Europe.  I don't think you can call they slave countries.  Cut the bullshit give me a straight answer.   What a mooorooon.  :rolleyes: Or are you picking fly shit out of the black pepper again.  :razz:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/apr2011/gmin-a15.shtml

Quote from: me on May 14, 2011, 05:36:56 PM
So what you're doing in essence is putting me down because you think you're better than me because you feel your time is worth more and I felt I wanted to keep prices down so more people could afford my service and still be able to pay my employee's more and wasn't quite able to manage it and still have a clean conscience.  Is that correct?

  Well maybe that was the turning point in you life.  From giving which didn't work because people took advantage of you.  To being greedy and wanting to get even.  What did I just say, if your prices are to low people don't care if you do the business or not.  They will use you all up and laugh about it.

  Ask you buddy Squawk if he deliberately keeps his price low to save his customers money.  The greedy weasel would take the copper coins out a dead man eyes to make two extra cents.  Just like a millionaire told me when I started my business, don't do business with people who don't have money.  If you do they will stick it to you.   "I didn't get this rich dealing with people with no money."  I didn't totally believe it and had to go to small claim court and learn the hard way.  To get the dead beats to pay.  I don't think there is any hope for you.  :no: :no: :no:

Quote from: Nighthawk on May 14, 2011, 06:23:24 PM
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/apr2011/gmin-a15.shtml

What about it.  They are Indian workers making Indian cars, which don't come here.

  They are trying to form a union just like the men here in the United States years and years ago and you Prince Valiant, you think unions should be illegal.  I thought you said that  auto workers didn't have rights.  What a moooroooon.  :jester:

Quote from: The Troll on May 14, 2011, 07:07:23 PM
What about it.  They are Indian workers making Indian cars, which don't come here.

  They are trying to form a union just like the men here in the United States years and years ago and you Prince Valiant, you think unions should be illegal.  I thought you said that  auto workers didn't have rights.  What a moooroooon.  :jester:

That's what I figured. You condemn 'slavery' only in this country if it happens in another country it's fine to you. Never mind that you were touting GM showing a profit as a good thing even though they did it in part on the backs of those workers in India. You accuse me of not caring about other people when it is in fact you who doesn't care as evidenced by your post here.

I get really tired of repeating myself to you. maybe you just don't understand but I have repeatedly said that unions had their place years ago and made real changes for the workers here. It is now that they have too much power and are making things worse for the workers and this country and need to go.

And again your show your reading comprehension to be severly lacking. The article clearly states that they already have a union. I would also like you to point out where I ever said that auto workers have no rights. Or is this another accusation about me you pulled out of your ass.

I expected no less from you. Since this is one of your presious companies that uses union labor they can do NO wrong in your eyes and you will defend them no matter what. Kinda like your messiah in the white house.

Quote from: Nighthawk on May 14, 2011, 07:21:05 PM
That's what I figured. You condemn 'slavery' only in this country if it happens in another country it's fine to you. Never mind that you were touting GM showing a profit as a good thing even though they did it in part on the backs of those workers in India. You accuse me of not caring about other people when it is in fact you who doesn't care as evidenced by your post here.

I get really tired of repeating myself to you. maybe you just don't understand but I have repeatedly said that unions had their place years ago and made real changes for the workers here. It is now that they have too much power and are making things worse for the workers and this country and need to go.

And again your show your reading comprehension to be severly lacking. The article clearly states that they already have a union. I would also like you to point out where I ever said that auto workers have no rights. Or is this another accusation about me you pulled out of your ass.

I expected no less from you. Since this is one of your presious companies that uses union labor they can do NO wrong in your eyes and you will defend them no matter what. Kinda like your messiah in the white house.

  Well I get sick of  your self serving attitude.  Always taking what someone says out of contex.  You are totally wrong on everything.  But scabs like you, you can lick the bottoms of a working man's shoes.  My god you are one of the most stupid person I have every ran into.  Your are not only a scab your a festering scab on America's ass.  :azz:

  May Obama, The Democrats, the unions live well and strong and let the scabs of the earth starve.  :4th3:

Quote from: The Troll on May 14, 2011, 07:49:23 PM
  Well I get sick of  your self serving attitude.  Always taking what someone says out of contex.  You are totally wrong on everything.  But scabs like you, you can lick the bottoms of a working man's shoes.  My god you are one of the most stupid person I have every ran into.  Your are not only a scab your a festering scab on America's ass.  :azz:

  May Obama, The Democrats, the unions live well and strong and let the scabs of the earth starve.  :4th3:

Aww, whatta matter again? Did I hurt your itty bitty feewins again?

I have never seen a bigger hypocrite in my life. Your posts over the last few days prove that. You can hide behind your hate and anger all you want but we all know that you are just a scared little boy who is afraid to even admit when you are wrong. Adults can admit their mistakes and learn from them but you are incapable of this.

Go ahead and call me all the names you want. Insult to your heart's content. But remember, I can see through your little charade and know you for exactly what you are. The more insults you throw, the more hate you spew, the smaller and more insignificant you become.

Quote from: Nighthawk on May 14, 2011, 09:29:44 PM
Aww, whatta matter again? Did I hurt your itty bitty feewins again?

I have never seen a bigger hypocrite in my life. Your posts over the last few days prove that. You can hide behind your hate and anger all you want but we all know that you are just a scared little boy who is afraid to even admit when you are wrong. Adults can admit their mistakes and learn from them but you are incapable of this.

Go ahead and call me all the names you want. Insult to your heart's content. But remember, I can see through your little charade and know you for exactly what you are. The more insults you throw, the more hate you spew, the smaller and more insignificant you become.

  You have gotten me to the point of over reaching the rules of the Unknown Zone.  Wither you are a Goat Sucker, a Bull Bat, a Night Jar, a Mosquito Hawk or a Night Hawk that little ugly dull, weak footed, big mouth bird has a place in mature.  I can't say you're a Vulture for they have a place in nature, snake, Jackals, Skunks, Wolfs all have a place in in nature.

  But a No See Ummm.  A blood sucking gnat,bitting midges or punkies would be a good avatar for you.  Thousand of them all most invisible blood suckers, who little small bites cause small water filled itchy blisters.  Making is miserable for horse eyes, all animal and human life and has no reason to exist.

  I am going to treat you just like the other people I have total disdain for.  Just sit back and occasionally correct some of your idiot statements.  But other than that I going to put on Deep Woods Off with extra Deet and let you show your ass.  Have a nice day.  :kiss:

 Oh, one more thing Mosquito Hawk with your new Avatar of a No See Ummmm, This is what it would look like.  Hee, hee, Hee.




                                                      This is you--->  .  <---Here you are.

Quote from: The Troll on May 15, 2011, 02:14:29 PM
Oh, one more thing Mosquito Hawk with your new Avatar of a No See Ummmm, This is what it would look like.  Hee, hee, Hee.




                                                      This is you--->  .  <---Here you are.

  More stories about No See Ummms.  When my wife and I started to go down to Gulf Shores to stay for three months a year.  We were sat upon by the damn No See Ummms.  They made everybody down there miserable.  If there was a little wind and at certain times there were no No See Ummms.  But to make sure you just put some Deep Woods Off with extra DEET and you were OK>


  One day down there I was talking to another Snowbird and I said, being down here and around all of this water I haven't seen any flies.  He said, and you won't see any flies down here, the damn No See Ummms eat them.

  Another day I ran in to another Snowbird, it was a beautiful day and he was wearing a long sleeve light jacket.  I say something about his jacket and he said, it's for these damn No See Ummms.  The damn things will eat your arms off.  I had to go to the hospital over them.  I didn't know what was causing all of the little itchy blisters on my arms.  My arms were covered with them.  I had over a 100 bites in a 2 inch area on one arm alone.

  The doctor gave me a shot and some skin cream and told me about the damn things and how to fight them.

  Isn't it amazing how something so small and almost invisible can make good people miserable.  Don't you wish that a little Deep Woods Off would take care of the other miserable assholes in the human race.  :yes: :wink: :smile:

Quote from: The Troll on May 15, 2011, 05:05:35 PM
  More stories about No See Ummms.  When my wife and I started to go down to Gulf Shores to stay for three months a year.  We were sat upon by the damn No See Ummms.  They made everybody down there miserable.  If there was a little wind and at certain times there were no No See Ummms.  But to make sure you just put some Deep Woods Off with extra DEET and you were OK>


  One day down there I was talking to another Snowbird and I said, being down here and around all of this water I haven't seen any flies.  He said, and you won't see any flies down here, the damn No See Ummms eat them.

  Another day I ran in to another Snowbird, it was a beautiful day and he was wearing a long sleeve light jacket.  I say something about his jacket and he said, it's for these damn No See Ummms.  The damn things will eat your arms off.  I had to go to the hospital over them.  I didn't know what was causing all of the little itchy blisters on my arms.  My arms were covered with them.  I had over a 100 bites in a 2 inch area on one arm alone.

  The doctor gave me a shot and some skin cream and told me about the damn things and how to fight them.

  Isn't it amazing how something so small and almost invisible can make good people miserable.  Don't you wish that a little Deep Woods Off would take care of the other miserable assholes in the human race.  :yes: :wink: :smile:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/TrollSpray.jpg)

Quote from: me on May 15, 2011, 05:25:47 PM
   (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/deerladie/TrollSpray.jpg)

  Well, well Tooty Fruity, ain't you cute.  Sugar Fly Baby do you know what to do with that Troll spray,  bend over and shove it where the sun don't shine and with you Choo, choo baby it sure wouldn't be hard to hit.  Big I say it's really big.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl: