While we're waiting to hear whether this latest procedure will finally plug the oil gusher at the bottom of the Gulf, and viewing the "mud" they say has now replaced the crude in the cloud, I got to wondering. . .What is this "mud" made of?
A little poking around and I ran into this: . . . http://www.cetco.com/cdp/Bentonite/Properties%20of%20a%20Drilling%20Fluid.pdf (http://www.cetco.com/cdp/Bentonite/Properties%20of%20a%20Drilling%20Fluid.pdf)
VI. Types of Drilling Fluids
A. Clay (bentonite) B. Polymer C. Foam
VII. Bentonite Clay
A. Advantages i. High viscosity
ii. Low solids iii. Suspends cuttings iv. Fluid loss control v. Stabilizes borehole vi. Aids in prevention of lost circulation
B. Disadvantages i. Retards settling of cuttings. The gel strength and viscosity properties of the
bentonite clay allow for cutting suspension and removal. This advantage of bentonite clay becomes a disadvantage in the settling of small cuttings and sand at the surface.
ii. In highly swelling clays and shale's, the use of bentonite clay alone will not be sufficient to prevent hydration and swelling of the formation.
iii. Bentonite is sensitive to water contamination. Hard water and salt water have adverse effects on bentonite. Low pH and extremely high pH water will also affect the bentonite clay performance.
C. Overcoming Disadvantages i. If the settling of cuttings becomes a problem in using bentonite clay, the addition
of small amounts of polymers will aid in this application. Polymers increase the viscosity of a bentonite clay mud. At the same time, no additional solids are being added, and the gel strength characteristic of the bentonite clay is reduced. This allows for better cutting removal. The best method for removing cuttings is the use of a desander. The desander removes a greater percentage of sand and cuttings than the addition of polymers, and does not change the properties of the bentonite clay. The use of a desander will increase the life of the bentonite clay. It will also reduce maintenance and repair of the mud pump.
ii. In clay and shale drilling, it is most important to seal off this formation and to reduce hydration of the formation. Bentonite clay drilling mud cannot perform this function alone. Adding small amounts of polymer to the bentonite clay mud or switching to an all polymer drilling fluid system will
offset this problem. Polymers coat the clay or shale preventing hydration. Always add polymers to hydrated bentonite not to the mix water. Adding polymers to the mix water will have the same effect on the bentonite as it will on the clay formation, and the bentonite clay will not hydrate.
iii. Bentonite clay's performance as the water in which it affects a drilling mud is mixed. The make up water is one of the main building blocks of the drilling mud. The pH, hardness, and salt content of the make up water determine the yield and performance of the bentonite clay.
a. The pH of the make up water should be within the alkaline range. On the pH scale, the acidity range is from less than 1 to just below 7. The alkalinity range is just above 7 to 14. A pH of 7 is considered neutral. The pH desired for mixing bentonite clay is between 8.5 and 10 on the pH scale. A pH of 9 is considered perfect. If the pH of the make up water is low, it will affect the hydration of the bentonite clay. The make up water should be treated with soda ash to raise pH. If the pH of the make up water exceeds 11 pH, flocculation of the bentonite clays can occur.
b. Hard water results in unsatisfactory performance of bentonite clay mud. Hard water contains dissolved calcium salts. Calcium salts impair the suspending and sealing properties of bentonite clay. Soda ash is used to treat hard water usually 1 to 2 pounds of soda ash will be sufficient treat for both high pH and hardness.
c. Salt has a most adverse effect on bentonite clay. Salt will affect the bentonite clay in the mix water and if it comes into contact with it during drilling. Salt adversely affects filtration, suspension, viscosity, and gel properties of bentonite clay. If the salt is in the make up water, the viscosity and gel development of the bentonite clay will be greatly reduced. Increased filtration and filter cake thickness will be accelerated. If the salt is encountered during drilling after freshwater hydration, the bentonite drilling mud will thicken. It will, over time, flocculate out the bentonite clay. There is no treatment for salt contamination. Bentonite clay should never be mixed in salt water. Find another water source for the mix water. If salt is encountered during drilling, the mud should be disposed of as it becomes contaminated, and fresh mud, made up in advance, should replace it. If the salt contamination within the formation is high or continuous, an alternate drilling fluid is advisable. VariFlo (guar gum) or Attapulgite clay mixed with Rel-Pac (dry polymer) are two alternatives that perform well in salt conditions. Note salt concentrations begin to adversely affect bentonite at 500 ppm. At 5000 ppm, bentonite should not be used.
VIII. Polymers
A. Dry Polymers (Rel-Pac) Dry polymers such as Rel-Pac are non-toxic, non-fermenting organic polymers. There
are many advantages to using a Rel-Pac type material in conjunction with a bentonite clay mud. Bentonite is very stable in the presence of Rel-Pac. Rel-Pac increases lubricity, decreases fluid loss, increases viscosity, and inhibits water sensitive shale and clay formations from hydrating. Dry polymers perform well in hard and salty water, and do not deteriorate with age. Dry polymers contain much higher active ingredients than liquid polymers.
B. Natural Polymer (Guar Gum) - VariFlo Guar gum is natural occurring polymers in the form of a bean much like coffee beans.
The product is finely ground and used as a drilling fluid or additive due to its viscosifying abilities. The product works well in fresh or salt water. The product is subject to biological degradation because it will support biological growth. Like all polymers, VariFlo (guar gum) is a poor filtrate control agent used alone. It also will not suspend cuttings when drilling stops. The product is sensitive to high temperatures and biological degradation. Mix waters should be low in temperature and free of enzymes and bacteria.
C. Liquid Polymers (Insta Pac-425) Liquid polymers are polyacrylamide/polyacrylate emulsions kept in suspension with
mineral oil. Because the polymer is a liquid, it is much faster mixing than dry polymers. Because of this it is the product of choice in the groundwater industry. Liquid polymers are high in viscosity buildings, but
like all polymers, the product has poor filtration control when used alone. Liquid polymers work well in bentonite mud systems. They increase viscosity without increasing solids content of the mud. They increase lubricity and, working with bentonite, offer excellent fluid loss control. The liquid polymers are extremely sensitive to calcium and low pH water. The product is not as stable and has a much shorter shelf like than dry polymers. The primary function of Insta-Pac is as a clay shale formation hydration inhibitor. Secondary usage includes: use as a hydration inhibitor in mix water with granular bentonite for loss circulation material; use with bentonite clay as an aid to cuttings' removal; use as a low solid viscosifier with bentonite mud; and as an additive in foam drilling.
IX. Foam
When drilling in a consolidated formation, air drilling is typically used. The air drilling system increases cutting rates in rock by carrying the cuttings away from the drill bit and up the hole. The formation is naturally stable. Therefore, a drilling fluid systems objective is to maintain circulation, lower hydrostatic head, and remove cuttings using the lowest volume of water and compressed air. This is typically done using air, water, foam, and stiff foam, in that order, depending on the formations encountered, depth of hole, diameter of hole, and size of cuttings. When foams drilling, use 1 to 2 pints per 100 gallons of make up water. This should be added to the foam-mixing tank. The foam/water mixture is injected into the air stream from the compressor through the mixing nozzle. The resulting foam is piped through the parts in the bit where it expands and flows back up the hole to the surface bringing with it suspended cuttings.
If stiff foam is desired, the addition of Insta Pac- 425 in small quantities will help stiffen the foam. Insta- Pac 425 can also be used as a stiffing agent.
X. Chemicals
A. Sodium Carbonate (NaCO3) soda ash is used to precipitate soluble calcium from water base mud's to control pH. When the soda ash enters hard water, it ionizes as Na+ and CO3= in the continuous phase. The carbonate ions combine with the calcium ions, forming calcium carbonate (CaCO3), and inert precipitate. Treating hard water with soda ash prior to using the water to make a bentonite or polymer drilling fluid will result in a higher yield and more stable drilling fluid. Make up water should be treated with soda ash if 500-ppm calcium is present. Formula for soda ash addition is .001 x ppm Ca = lb. soda ash 42 gallons make up water. Excessive treatment with soda ash can cause high viscosity and gel strengths. If a mud has pH less than 11, soda ash additions will raise it.
B. Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic Soda) A chemical primarily used to impart a higher pH. Caution is to be used when using
caustic. It can cause severe burns and it is highly corrosive. To raise pH, use 1⁄4 to 1-pound Caustic per 50 gallons of water. Product is not recommended for use by groundwater drillers.
C. Sodium Acid Pyrophosphate (SAPP) SAPP has a 4.5 pH in 10% solution. It is used as a thinning agent, to disperse sticky
clays and clean up and develop water-bearing formations. A very small amount of phosphate is required to thin clay-drilling fluids. Normally, 1⁄4 to 1⁄2 pound per 50 gallons is adequate. To develop water well, use 4 to 10 pounds per 50 gallons of water, jetting and circulating product at the targeted water-bearing formation. The following phosphates can be used the same as SAPP:
* Sodium Hexametaphosphate - 6.8 pH * Sodium Tetra phosphate - 8.0 pH Care should be taken when using phosphate to develop water well. Development should
start and be completed at the time the phosphate is introduced to the system. Introducing phosphate into a system and letting it sit for 6 to 12 hours prior to well development can damage water-bearing formation inhibiting proper well development.
D. Lime
Lime (Ca[OH2]) has the same detrimental effect as cement has on drilling mud. Lime increases viscosity, gel strength and fluid loss in the formation. The reaction is very severe. Lime hinders the ability to develop a water-bearing formation properly.
E. Borax (Sodium Borate) Used as a viscosifier and gelling agent in conjunction with guar gum (VariFlo).
F. Chlorine (Sodium Hypo chlorite-Liquid or Dry) Chlorine is primarily used to destroy bacteria once the well is completed. It is also used
to destroy bacteria and enzymes in the mix water prior to using a guar gum (VariFlo) polymer.
XI. Mixing Drilling Mud
Attention should be given to the equipment used to mix drilling mud's and to the sequence of addition of the mud and any additives.
clay.
A. If the make up water requires treatment, always treat it prior to addition of the bentonite
B. Use a jet hopper mixer to disperse the bentonite clay.
C. Bentonite clay (Super Gel-X) should be mixed slowly through the jet hopper at a rate of one 50 lb. bag every 10 to 20 minutes.
D. Volume of mud pit should be three times the volume of the proposed hole. Figuring volume of pit length (ft.) x width (ft.) x depth (ft.) x 7.5 = volume (gal).
E. The mud pit should be of such design that the drilling mud, during flow, changes direction and slows, allowing for cuttings to drop out.
F. The addition of viscosifying polymers should be made after the bentonite clay mud is thoroughly mixed in fresh water.
G. Viscosity and density tests should be run on the drilling mud following mixing. Periodic tests should be made during drilling and changes noted. Sand content tests should be run on the mud once drilling starts.
So. . . what are they using and will it be just as bad or worse? :spooked:
Where do shrimp live, where do shrimp eat, where do shrimp breed. It's on the bottom.
What do the fish eat in the gulf, they eat shrimp.
This is absolutley going to kill the shrimp industry and the fishing industry for years and years.
When you kill all of the shrimp you kill the Gulf.
well it looks like you two scientist have it all figured out now....we might as well open up the drilling agian....everything is already destroyed and lost.... :rolleyes: doom and gloom... :no:
Quote from: Palehorse on May 27, 2010, 11:34:13 AM
While we're waiting to hear whether this latest procedure will finally plug the oil gusher at the bottom of the Gulf, and viewing the "mud" they say has now replaced the crude in the cloud, I got to wondering. . .What is this "mud" made of?
A little poking around and I ran into this: . . . http://www.cetco.com/cdp/Bentonite/Properties%20of%20a%20Drilling%20Fluid.pdf (http://www.cetco.com/cdp/Bentonite/Properties%20of%20a%20Drilling%20Fluid.pdf)
. . .
So. . . what are they using and will it be just as bad or worse? :spooked:
I should have know better than to expect anything near intelligent dialog surrounding this explorative inquiry! :rolleyes:
I'm sorry PH, I have become EXTRMELY cynical on here....certain cast members on this forum brings out the worst in me....
bad, bad, bad...henry.. :no:
I'm no engineer, but it sure seems to me like the 'effin thing is spewing more than ever.
Yes it does and is, and that is why I expressed some concern surrounding just what the hell they are using to make this so called "mud".
I understand they have to overcome the force of the oil with stronger force in order to stop it, but the fluids, materials, and chemicals they are using may very well serve to magnify the problem within the areas in which it travels, and they are pumping it out at higher levels than that which the oil achieved. . . :spooked:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 27, 2010, 01:29:10 PM
well it looks like you two scientist have it all figured out now....we might as well open up the drilling agian....everything is already destroyed and lost.... :rolleyes: doom and gloom... :no:
Henry, you forgetting about the relief well they're drilling. Old BP isn't done yet. The poor babies are going to have to pump that pool of oil for years it keep in from coming out of that old pipe.
Why don't you put in your application for a job to pass out money to the people that BP has damaged down there. I'll bet you could save BP a lot of money, screwing those people out of the damages. Hell, they don't need that money. They just need to get a job and quit crying and leave BP alone. Right Henry.
25 hours of operation topkill and still spewing. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on May 27, 2010, 02:42:50 PM
Yes it does and is, and that is why I expressed some concern surrounding just what the hell they are using to make this so called "mud".
Here's more information on it:
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/05/26/4366250-can-mud-work-a-miracle
This kind of shit right here REALLY pisses me off. :mad: :mad: :mad:
BP's Photo Blockade of the Gulf Oil Spill
Photographers say BP and government officials are preventing them from documenting the impact of the Deepwater Horizon disaster.
Gerald Herbert / AP
As BP makes its latest attempt to plug its gushing oil well, news photographers are complaining that their efforts to document the slow-motion disaster in the Gulf of Mexico are being thwarted by local and federal officials—working with BP—who are blocking access to the sites where the effects of the spill are most visible. More than a month into the disaster, a host of anecdotal evidence is emerging from reporters, photographers, and TV crews in which BP and Coast Guard officials explicitly target members of the media, restricting and denying them access to oil-covered beaches, staging areas for clean-up efforts, and even flyovers.
Last week, a CBS TV crew was threatened with arrest when attempting to film an oil-covered beach. On Monday, Mother Jones published this firsthand account of one reporter's repeated attempts to gain access to clean-up operations on oil-soaked beaches, and the telling response of local law enforcement. The latest instance of denied press access comes from Belle Chasse, La.-based Southern Seaplane Inc., which was scheduled to take a New Orleans Times-Picayune photographer for a flyover on Tuesday afternoon, and says it was denied permission once BP officials learned that a member of the press would be on board.
"We are not at liberty to fly media, journalists, photographers, or scientists," the company said in a letter it sent on Tuesday to Sen. David Vitter (R-La.). "We strongly feel that the reason for this massive [temporary flight restriction] is that BP wants to control their exposure to the press."
The ability to document a disaster, particularly through images, is key to focusing the nation's attention on it, and the resulting clean-up efforts. Within days of the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill, pictures of dead otters, fish, and birds, as well as oil-covered shorelines, ignited nationwide outrage and led to a backlash against Exxon. Consumers returned some 10,000 of Exxon's 7 million credit cards. Forty days after the spill, protestors organized a national boycott of Exxon. So far, no national boycott of BP is in the works, despite growing frustration over the company's inability to cap the leaking well. Obviously, pictures are emerging from this spill, but much of the images are coming from BP and government sources.
The U.S. Coast Guard insists that they and BP have gone to great lengths to accommodate journalists and "roughly 400 members of the media have been given tours of the spill on either BP-contracted aircraft or Coast Guard helicopters," says U.S. Coast Guard Petty Officer David Mosley, who is based at the BP command center in Houma, La. (BP referred all questions to the command center). "I understand there may be some frustration [among the press], but there is a constant ongoing effort to fulfill media requests." Mosley defended flight restrictions as a necessary safety precaution. Since the flight restrictions were expanded on May 11, private aircraft must get permission from BP's command center to fly over a huge portion of the Gulf of Mexico encompassing not just the growing slick in the Gulf, but the entire Louisiana coastline, where oil is washing ashore. If a request is denied, aircraft must stay 3,000 feet above the restricted area, where visibility is minimal.
Photographers who have traveled to the Gulf commonly say they believe that BP has exerted more control over coverage of the spill with the cooperation of the federal government and local law enforcement. "It's a running joke among the journalists covering the story that the words 'Coast Guard' affixed to any vehicle, vessel, or plane should be prefixed with 'BP,' " says Charlie Varley, a Louisiana-based photographer. "It would be funny if it were not so serious."
The problem, as many members of the press see it, is that even when access is granted, it's done so under the strict oversight of BP and Coast Guard personnel. Reporters and photographers are escorted by BP officials on BP-contracted boats and aircraft. So the company is able to determine what reporters see and when they see it. AP photographer Gerald Herbert has been covering the disaster since the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded on April 20. He says that access has been hit or miss, and that there have been instances when it's obvious members of the press are being targeted. "There are times when the Coast Guard has been great, and others where it seems like they're interfering with our ability to have access," says Herbert. One of those instances occurred early last week, when Herbert accompanied local officials from Plaquemines Parish in a police boat on a trip to Breton Island, a national wildlife refuge off the barrier islands of Louisiana. With them was Jean-Michel Cousteau, son of Jacques, who wanted to study the impact of the oil below the surface of the water. Upon approaching the island, a Coast Guard boat stopped them. "The first question was, 'Is there any press with you?' " says Herbert. They answered yes, and the Coast Guard said they couldn't be there. "I had to bite my tongue. That should have no bearing."
Local fishermen and charter boat captains are also being pressured by BP not to work with the press. Left without a source of income, most have decided to work with BP to help spread booms and ferry officials around. Their passengers used to include members of the press, but not anymore. "You could tell BP was starting to close their grip, telling the fishermen not to talk to us," says Jared Moossy, a Dallas-based photographer who was covering the spill along the Gulf Coast earlier this month. "They would say that BP had told them not to talk to us or cooperate with us or that they'd get fired."
Some Gulf Coast watermen find BP's desire to limit press access obvious. "If there was a major fire in a warehouse, would you let reporters go inside and start taking pictures?" asks Peace Marvel, a charter-boat captain in Venice, La. Job one, he says, is to clean up the spill, and running members of the press around only gets in the way and makes things worse. "Nobody wants this marsh saved as much as we do." Since the spill, Marvel has turned his 15 years of experience into helping coordinate the logistics of ferrying BP officials around the Gulf Coast to deal with the spreading disaster. His current contract with BP lasts for 30 more days, and he says he's making more money working for BP than he did as a charter-boat captain. "I'm hustling for business," he says.
So are the reporters and photographers trying to cover the worst environmental disaster in the history of the U.S. waters. They'll have to do it without the help of people like Peace Marvel, and against the will of BP.
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/05/26/the-missing-oil-spill-photos.html
Quote from: Locutus on May 27, 2010, 03:42:47 PM
Here's more information on it:
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/05/26/4366250-can-mud-work-a-miracle
I just saw a graphic that says that BP is pumping 2,100 gallons a minute of this mud into the oil well. Doing the math and using the amount quoted in the article you posted, they should be running out any time now; even given a dilution rate of 50% to achieve viscosity. . .
That concrete enema should be started if it has not already.
I just heard on the radio, it will be this evening before they know if it may or may not work...
Trouble is, with the information I just posted above, we won't know because of the sterilization of the news that's apparently going on. :mad:
Quote from: Locutus on May 27, 2010, 04:05:02 PM
Trouble is, with the information I just posted above, we won't know because of the sterilization of the news that's apparently going on. :mad:
Well that's been pretty much par for the course here now hasn't it! :mad: Those jackasses had to be pressured to provide access to the fed in the first place, and
have you noticed the only thing they are now showing is the preventer and not the sheered off riser that they showed spewing?!I saw a clip yesterday evening on reporters being herded and told to shut off cameras, etc. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Great. . . now "Thad" is spewing . . . I really don't get a good feeling anytime that idiot is up in front of the media. It's clear he is trying to speak beyond his comprehension a lot of the time. . . :mad:
Well that wasn't very informative! He didn't sound like he had much of a clue of what's going on.
Quote from: Locutus on May 27, 2010, 04:50:16 PM
Well that wasn't very informative! He didn't sound like he had much of a clue of what's going on.
Yeah, he never does. Strikes me as a career hotshot admiral who got his stars by kissing ass and bullshitting the brass. I don't care the least for his shoot from the hip style and idiotic attempts to sound like he has worked in the industry.
He IMO is feeding the misinformation out there via utilization of terminology he has zero understanding of. For example, his attempt to summarize the procedure will probably be misinterpreted to mean they are going to try to put the dome over the leak again. . . It has happened several times before.
I understand the importance of continuity in an operation of such importance, but I'm betting this is the last we'll see of this guy once the immediate issue is addressed. His constant ineptness in front of the press is not conducive to a long term career as NIC for sure. . . He'll be swabbing decks or retiring forthwith once the gusher is stopped. :mad:
Well BP has suspended the top kill procedure temporarily. :rolleyes:
Venice, Louisiana (CNN) -- BP's much-anticipated effort to cap its undersea gusher in the Gulf of Mexico was temporarily suspended Thursday afternoon and was expected to resume later in the evening, a BP executive said.
"Nothing has actually gone wrong or unanticipated," Doug Suttles, the company's chief operating officer, told reporters. He said engineers have been monitoring the process for the past 24 hours, and determining adjustments to the mud-like fluid being injected into the line to counter to flow of oil.
He said the next step will be to restock the drilling fluid and restart in the evening.
Quote from: Locutus on May 27, 2010, 06:12:05 PM
Well BP has suspended the top kill procedure temporarily. :rolleyes:
Venice, Louisiana (CNN) -- BP's much-anticipated effort to cap its undersea gusher in the Gulf of Mexico was temporarily suspended Thursday afternoon and was expected to resume later in the evening, a BP executive said.
"Nothing has actually gone wrong or unanticipated," Doug Suttles, the company's chief operating officer, told reporters. He said engineers have been monitoring the process for the past 24 hours, and determining adjustments to the mud-like fluid being injected into the line to counter to flow of oil.
He said the next step will be to restock the drilling fluid and restart in the evening.
Interpretation: they ran out of mud! I KNEW it! :mad:
They are saying they may try the junk shot, which to me is a clear indication that it isn't really working like they said! :mad: :mad: :mad:
They are not being honest about this and have not been since it happened! :mad: :mad: :mad:
They certainly haven't been honest, and their attempts to sterilize the press reporting is infuriating.
For sure! I bet the reason they never showed that riser is because all the oil was going out that instead of the BOP. . . :rant:
BP's much-anticipated effort to cap its undersea gusher in the Gulf of Mexico was temporarily suspended at midnight and was restarted in the last hour, a BP executive said.
The "top kill" procedure ended "just before midnight, when we stopped pumping operations," Doug Suttles, the company's chief operating officer, told reporters earlier. BP had been evaluating the results of the first round of pumping over the past 16 hours.
"Nothing has actually gone wrong or unanticipated," Suttles said. He said engineers have been monitoring the process for the past 24 hours, and determining adjustments to the mud-like fluid being injected into the line to counter to flow of oil. . .
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/27/gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/27/gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1)
Lying scum!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Quote from: Palehorse on May 27, 2010, 07:01:17 PM
BP's much-anticipated effort to cap its undersea gusher in the Gulf of Mexico was temporarily suspended at midnight and was restarted in the last hour, a BP executive said.
The "top kill" procedure ended "just before midnight, when we stopped pumping operations," Doug Suttles, the company's chief operating officer, told reporters earlier. BP had been evaluating the results of the first round of pumping over the past 16 hours.
"Nothing has actually gone wrong or unanticipated," Suttles said. He said engineers have been monitoring the process for the past 24 hours, and determining adjustments to the mud-like fluid being injected into the line to counter to flow of oil. . .
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/27/gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/27/gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1)
Lying scum!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
I know of one cure for this problem. Get Dick Cheney, ex-CEO of Halliburton, aren't they the one's that didn't cement the well properly. That gasbag could solve the problem. :rotfl:
Dick's got his hand up McUseless's backside and has him dancing a jig. . . That way he can stay safely in the background.
I hear they tried the junk-shot last night and guess what. . . still spewing! :mad: :mad: :mad:
I also hear from the same source (BP Mouthpiece) that they were "too busy with the task at hand to notify anyone about them stopping topkill, and just didn't think about it'! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Yeah. . . more like too busy trying to figure out how to CYA! Fuggin liars! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
BTW. . . anybody else remember when Standard Oil / Amoco were American companies? Guess who owns them now?
Quote from: Palehorse on May 28, 2010, 11:24:35 AM
BTW. . . anybody else remember when Standard Oil / Amoco were American companies? Guess who owns them now?
Remember Pure, Sonoco, Quaker State, Phillips 66, Speedway oil, Sohio, Sinclare, Amoco, Co-op, help me, I know there a lot more. My buddy sat down a thought of a lot more, but they have slipped my mind.
Texaco is another one
Quote from: The Troll on May 28, 2010, 02:30:48 PM
Remember Pure, Sonoco, Quaker State, Phillips 66, Speedway oil, Sohio, Sinclare, Amoco, Co-op, help me, I know there a lot more. My buddy sat down a thought of a lot more, but they have slipped my mind.
Quote from: The Troll on May 28, 2010, 02:30:48 PM
Remember Pure, Sonoco, Quaker State, Phillips 66, Speedway oil, Sohio, Sinclare, Amoco, Co-op, help me, I know there a lot more. My buddy sat down a thought of a lot more, but they have slipped my mind.
Sohio was a baby standard oil company, forced into existence by the government's monopoly rules. . . Amoco was too.
Sonoco, my uncle owned a couple of those stations in Chicago. I remember Texaco, (you can trust your car to the man who wears the star. . .), and Sinclair too, (The dinosaur!)
How about "Martin"? (Uncle owned a couple of those two). And of course don't forget Shell! :rolleyes:
(http://www.bobs-garage.com/pumps/Gilbarco86Mobilgas.jpg)
(http://www.bobs-garage.com/pumps/GP792.gif)
(http://www.bobs-garage.com/pumps/Bennett966dino.jpg)
Quote from: Palehorse on May 27, 2010, 05:14:00 PM
. . .
I understand the importance of continuity in an operation of such importance, but I'm betting this is the last we'll see of this guy once the immediate issue is addressed. His constant ineptness in front of the press is not conducive to a long term career as NIC for sure. . . He'll be swabbing decks or retiring forthwith once the gusher is stopped. :mad:
News is that ol' Thad is now officially "retired" but staying in place until the gusher is plugged. . . :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Robert, Louisiana (CNN) -- Three attempts to pump mud and 16 tries to stuff solid material into a breached Gulf of Mexico oil well failed to stop the flow, top BP executives said Saturday, and engineers and executives with the oil giant have decided to "move on to the next option."
That option: Place a custom-built cap to fit over the "lower marine riser package," BP chief operation officer Doug Suttles said. BP crews were already at work Saturday to ready the materials for that option, he said.
Suttles said three separate pumping efforts and 30,000 barrels of mud -- along with what chief executive officer Tony Hayward described as "16 different bridging material shots" -- just didn't do the trick. . .
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/29/us.gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/29/us.gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1)
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
One article I read mentioned blowing it up like the Chinese do when one of their wells spring a leak. I think it was China at least it's been a couple of weeks ago that I ran across the article. It kind of makes sense but I wonder if the depth of the well plus the depth of the leak makes that not possible for some reason.
Quote from: me on May 30, 2010, 01:44:52 AM
One article I read mentioned blowing it up like the Chinese do when one of their wells spring a leak. I think it was China at least it's been a couple of weeks ago that I ran across the article. It kind of makes sense but I wonder if the depth of the well plus the depth of the leak makes that not possible for some reason.
I have thought about that. But what most people don't realize that the water pressure is around 2,300 pound per square inch. That like having a ton weight on each and every inch of your body. A human body would become a lot smaller, down to the amount of water in your body. Water can't be compressed.
Since conventional explosive most likely wouldn,t work. Drill a well, on the slant, next to the bad well and place a water proof tactical nuke, bomb at the depth of 1000 in the earth and blow the dam thing shut. On the new well, put a damn good back flow preventer.
Just another brain fart of an idea, who know what will work. :doh:
I am no engineer so whatever they do I hope it's well thought out when using explosives and fissures and cracks in the earth that far down. This is a horrible, horrible thing to have happened to wildlife and people.
Indeed! It's an ecological and environmental disaster of unfathomable proportions. :no:
Washington (CNN) -- Rep. Edward Markey on Monday challenged the assertion by oil giant BP's chief executive that no underwater oil plumes have formed because of the Gulf of Mexico spill.
In a letter to BP, Markey, D-Massachusetts, said scientific evidence showed that such plumes have formed, and he asked for BP CEO Tony Hayward to provide evidence to back up Hayward's claim Sunday that the oil had gone to the surface.
On Sunday, Markey, who heads the House Energy and Environment subcommittee, accused BP of issuing false statements about the spill.
"BP in this instance means 'Blind to Plumes,' " Markey said in a statement Monday.
There was no immediate response from BP.
Markey's letter to BP said "the confirmation of the presence of large quantities of oil sub-surface could help to inform clean-up and response efforts, and it is vital that there is unfettered access to all relevant data or analysis."
The letter noted that University of South Florida researchers recently reported finding a 22-mile-long plume of dispersed oil. . .
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/31/gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T3 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/31/gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T3)
:mad:
This whole thing stinks. Why would a company that large not be doing everything in their power to get that thing stopped and be upfront and open with whats going on. What are they thinking they're going to gain other than being put out of business?
Quote from: me on May 31, 2010, 05:55:10 PM
This whole thing stinks. Why would a company that large not be doing everything in their power to get that thing stopped and be upfront and open with whats going on. What are they thinking they're going to gain other than being put out of business?
My opinion? One thing and one thing only is at the root of this, the corporate credo; "
Protect the bottom line".
They don't care about
anything else! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Quote from: Palehorse on May 31, 2010, 06:00:54 PM
My opinion? One thing and one thing only is at the root of this, the corporate credo; "Protect the bottom line".
They don't care about anything else! :mad: :mad: :mad:
But in this case protecting it is going to put them out of business.
Quote from: me on May 31, 2010, 06:05:08 PM
But in this case protecting it is going to put them out of business.
Well, given the
hundreds of billions of dollars in
profit they've been reaping for the last decade or so, if they have not built up a sizable contingency fund to take care of such possibilities, then they deserve to go out of business. . .
You know they have not built up a disaster fund. CEO's today are job skipping and have been as a rule for about 2 decades now. Going from one corporation to the next as a ladder to mega millions in their bank accounts. There is no job loyalty or sense of ownership anymore.
Rats abandoning a sinking ship mentality.Our Government should have taken control of this cleanup circus a month ago.
Quote from: rotflmao on May 31, 2010, 08:29:21 PM
. . .Our Government should have taken control of this cleanup circus a month ago.
Had that happened it would have been used as another "example" by the political opposition, of the supposed covert path to socialism they consistently try to beat the POTUS with and have since before the election. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on May 31, 2010, 08:38:23 PM
Had that happened it would have been used as another "example" by the political opposition, of the supposed covert path to socialism they consistently try to beat the POTUS with and have since before the election. . .
So Pres Bush was fried in oil because he let The
elected Mayor and Governor of Louisiana room to do their jobs which they failed miserably with. The socialist man child gets a pass for over 30 days.
Typical.
Quote from: rotflmao on June 01, 2010, 11:53:32 AM
So Pres Bush was fried in oil because he let The elected Mayor and Governor of Louisiana room to do their jobs which they failed miserably with. The socialist man child gets a pass for over 30 days.
Typical.
Thanks for validating my point. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on June 01, 2010, 11:55:48 AM
Thanks for validating my point. . .
They (the Mayor & Gov of La) failed to do their jobs because they were IDIOTS, NOT because the Gov WAS or WAS NOT there...(Bush declared a State of Emergency 3-days before Katrina hit)....
I just think, (and it is ALL hindsite now)...we NEVER had an event like this before....I think this was an opportunity for Obama to step in and show some leadership....to his defense, the "fix" of this is NOT an easy solution....as it is obvious, because it is STILL spewing....The Gov of Louisana has claimed that he has NOT had expediant help by the fed government with getting proper help to stop the oil from reaching his coastline...
I think the folks in that area needed some emotion by the POTUS to be assured that everything is being done....and it has been mostly left to BP to fix....I see a weak effort by the Adminstration to see this thing through...
It would appear you missed that point as well Hank. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on June 01, 2010, 01:36:44 PM
It would appear you missed that point as well Hank. . .
I understand YOUR point, but I think YOU are missing the point rotflmao was making...
I think there is a time and a place for Gov involvement....and Emergencies such as this, is a perfect example of when our Government should step in...and THIS would not have equated a covert path to socialism..it would have been a time for leadership to get through the storm....such as Giuliani did on 9/11...
Once again, you are validating my point. The opposition will spin this any way they can in order to utilize it as a club with which to beat the POTUS.
Funny how Katrina was "we NEVER had an event like this before.", but not in the case of the oil spill. . . And I suppose the corruption of the regulatory agency that failed to do their jobs is also not a mitigating factor in this case either. . . :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 01, 2010, 01:47:11 PM
Once again, you are validating my point. The opposition will spin this any way they can in order to utilize it as a club with which to beat the POTUS.
Funny how Katrina was "we NEVER had an event like this before.", but not in the case of the oil spill. . . And I suppose the corruption of the regulatory agency that failed to do their jobs is also not a mitigating factor in this case either. . . :rolleyes:
you mean like the MMS giving a Safety Award to the Deepwater Horizon last winter?....
Their latest initiative (BP) is being called "cut and cap". Next up, "duck and run"! :mad:
Trouble is, the oil will flow unimpeded after the cut is made, so if the cap doesn't work, the situation will be worse than what it presently is.
Quote from: Palehorse on June 01, 2010, 02:05:46 PM
Their latest initiative (BP) is being called "cut and cap". Next up, "duck and run"! :mad:
I think you need to give them a chance first to see how they handle things AFTER they stop it....
Just a tiny sidetrack.......Ricker's is now Marathon. Guess they figured they'd be better off to change companies than lose business.
Quote from: me on June 01, 2010, 02:28:08 PM
Just a tiny sidetrack.......Ricker's is now Marathon. Guess they figured they'd be better off to change companies than lose business.
Seriously? :spooked:
Quote from: Locutus on June 01, 2010, 02:24:15 PM
Trouble is, the oil will flow unimpeded after the cut is made, so if the cap doesn't work, the situation will be worse than what it presently is.
Exactly! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 01, 2010, 02:25:00 PM
I think you need to give them a chance first to see how they handle things AFTER they stop it....
I have zero faith in BP and zero trust for them, inclusive of the oil industry in general. I do not look for this thing to be stopped until August or September, when the relief wells reach it. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on June 01, 2010, 02:49:45 PM
I have zero faith in BP and zero trust for them, inclusive of the oil industry in general. I do not look for this thing to be stopped until August or September, when the relief wells reach it. . .
and you think that they are not trying to stop this?......I just don't see where they have anything to gain by NOT stopping this as soon as they possibly can, despite you trust them or not....
I have as much faith in them as I do our Government.....not any difference between them at all.
BP is not being truthful and has not demonstrated good faith. They have earned no trust in doing so.
Quote from: Palehorse on June 01, 2010, 03:01:34 PM
BP is not being truthful and has not demonstrated good faith. They have earned no trust in doing so.
:yes:
Matter of fact, they're going to great lengths to ensure that they don't have to be truthful.
Quote from: Locutus on June 01, 2010, 03:04:00 PM
:yes:
Matter of fact, they're going to great lengths to ensure that they don't have to be truthful.
and that sounds like our Government.....my point is made.
And now the oil is coming ashore in Alabama. . . :mad: :mad: :mad:
31% of the Gulf is now under a total fishing ban. . . :mad: :mad: :mad:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 01, 2010, 02:42:32 PM
Seriously? :spooked:
Went past the one on 38th and Madison today and it say's Marathon all over the place. :yes:
Quote from: me on June 01, 2010, 04:39:40 PM
Went past the one on 38th and Madison today and it say's Marathon all over the place. :yes:
Rickers sells both....BP and Marathon....the one in Pedleton is Marathon...
Quote from: me on June 01, 2010, 04:39:40 PM
Went past the one on 38th and Madison today and it say's Marathon all over the place. :yes:
That one used to be a BP for sure. . . :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 01, 2010, 05:06:23 PM
Rickers sells both....BP and Marathon....the one in Pedleton is Marathon...
Yes they were. . . When the one on MLK and 53rd goes Marathon I will believe they are switching. . .
Hmmm.... Wonder what they're up to now.
Just look at that thing spewing Texas Tea. . . Now the saw blade is stuck. . . :mad: :mad: :mad:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 02, 2010, 12:44:58 PM
Just look at that thing spewing Texas Tea. . . Now the saw blade is stuck. . . :mad: :mad: :mad:
:dam: That damn Obama was down there and he caused the blade to get stuck. He can't do anything right. We wouldn't have had this problems if we had elected John McCain and Sara Paylin. She had dealings with oil companies in Alaska. You Betcha. Wink.
If he would just get out of the way, the market will take care of it. That's what corporations are set up to do. You can trust them with your life.
Ask the 9 men that gave up their lives for BP. True company men. :yes: :yes: :yes:
BREAKING NEWS:
BP has freed the snared diamond wire cutting saw that was being used to cut off the damaged riser pipe.
And they abandoned the saw for the shears, which is going to make for a less accurate cut and fit of the latest cap. . .
They intend to use dispersants to deal with the oil escaping the pipe until the hat is in place. . .
This is unbelievable! :mad:
It would be comical if it weren't so sad. I've honestly gotten to the point that I go to CNN.com or some other site, and I await the headline to see what the latest lie is that's coming from BP. Absolutely NOTHING of what they've said to date has been true. Nothing.
BP = Big Perjurers :rant: :mad:
Well I just checked and they say they've successfully sliced the damn thing. It's a ragged cut, but they're going to be lowering a containment dome shortly.
The video above still shows oil spewing out of the pipe at an incredible rate.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
I wonder if that's the containment dome being lowered down now. Check the video.
Appears to be. . . .
Quote from: Palehorse on June 03, 2010, 10:33:42 AM
And they abandoned the saw for the shears, which is going to make for a less accurate cut and fit of the latest cap. . .
They intend to use dispersants to deal with the oil escaping the pipe until the hat is in place. . .
This is unbelievable! :mad:
This is one thing I want to see. Slipping a back flow preventer with a nice round hole in over a pipe that has a mash end one it. :lies:
This is scary. Look at this simulation.
Using computer models of ocean currents, scientists at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, part of the Commerce Department, conclude that once the oil in the uppermost ocean has been picked up by the Gulf of Mexico's energetic Loop Current, it is likely to reach Florida's Atlantic coast within weeks. It can then spread north with the Gulf Stream as far as Cape Hatteras, N.C., and then turn east into the open ocean.
I saw similar models early on and it is what has had me scared over this since it began. This could effectively kill the fishing industry in this nation, and already has resulted in the elimination of over 30% of the Gulf area, one of the nation's richest fishing/shrimping waters, from availability.
Those of us that enjoy seafood will be even harder pressed to obtain our favorite meal in the coming years, since prices will go through the roof because the items will have to be imported from elsewhere in the world. And that's just the start of a black legacy this whole "drill baby, drill" approach is building for us and our children/grandchildren. :mad: :mad: :mad:
And just think about the uncontrolled fires the lightening is going to ignite, as storms blow over these roaming islands of crude and tar balls. . .
It is even possible that it could potentially rain oil because of this! :rant:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 03, 2010, 04:52:17 PM
And just think about the uncontrolled fires the lightening is going to ignite, as storms blow over these roaming islands of crude and tar balls. . .
It is even possible that it could potentially rain oil because of this! :rant:
If you remember PH, a while back I mentioned about using a small tactical nuclear bomb to blow it shut.
Well tonight on TV their talking about it. The U.S. has a lot of experience in underground nuclear explosions.
They say that the Russians have use them four time to close wells shut.
I'm almost a smart as the people who working of this. :biggrin: :biggrin: The Troll
Quote from: The Troll on June 03, 2010, 05:36:10 PM
If you remember PH, a while back I mentioned about using a small tactical nuclear bomb to blow it shut.
Well tonight on TV their talking about it. The U.S. has a lot of experience in underground nuclear explosions.
They say that the Russians have use them four time to close wells shut.
I'm almost a smart as the people who working of this. :biggrin: :biggrin: The Troll
I don't see the need to go nuke on it, when one bunker buster or a nice C-4 enema would do the job quite nicely. . .
Yeah, the only thing worse than a big oil spill is a radioactive big oil spill. :spooked:
Quote from: Locutus on June 03, 2010, 05:46:00 PM
Yeah, the only thing worse than a big oil spill is a radioactive big oil spill. :spooked:
No kidding! :spooked: :skull:
Would dynamite or plastics get the desired result? I really don't think a nuke would be very advisable.
Quote from: Locutus on June 03, 2010, 05:46:00 PM
Yeah, the only thing worse than a big oil spill is a radioactive big oil spill. :spooked:
Think of it as Mother Nature's enforcement of Zero Population Growth.
Quote from: Palehorse on June 03, 2010, 05:44:48 PM
I don't see the need to go nuke on it, when one bunker buster or a nice C-4 enema would do the job quite nicely. . .
Oh, they might have the power. But from what I've seen. Their are over 4 feet diameter and wieght 20,000 pounds (5 tons) and are dropped from around 20,000 feet in the air.
Their to big to get into the pipe or any well they could drill and I think dropping them from 20,000 feet into 5,000 feet of water won't do the job.
They have to have a small diameter bomb to put down the well casing and still be powerful to crush the pipe.
Quote from: me on June 03, 2010, 07:24:48 PM
Would dynamite or plastics get the desired result? I really don't think a nuke would be very advisable.
Dynamite. . .maybe. . . C-4 for sure! :yes
They could drill 4 holes adjacent to the spewing one, about 5-600 feet down, fill them with enough C-4 to collapse the spewer, and voila!
Of course, anything within a mile or three of the location will be toast. . . , and the splash back and sound wave will kill beyond that zone as well. . .
Quote from: LOsborne on June 03, 2010, 07:31:59 PM
Think of it as Mother Nature's enforcement of Zero Population Growth.
Lolly the well is 18,000 feet deep. That's below the bottom of the Gulf. That is 5 miles. If they drill a well next to the bad one and drilled 3 miles deep, that is 3 miles of rock above the explosion. The U.S. did over 100 underground atomic explosions in New Nexico.
Maybe if they talk to the Russians they might learn something.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The Obama administration has sent a $69 million bill to BP for the U.S. government's efforts to help deal with the energy company's oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. . .
http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/03/news/companies/bp_obama_administration_bill/index.htm?hpt=T2 (http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/03/news/companies/bp_obama_administration_bill/index.htm?hpt=T2)
Bet they pay this one before they pay the fishermen. . .
And now the latest effort is sucking oil onto a ship, but the underwater live feed shows oil billowing out in great clouds. . . Dammit! Dammit! Dammit! :mad: :mad: :mad:
This is excellent:
Mark Morford - Notes & Errata
There is, you have to admit, a sort of savage grace, a tragic and terrible beauty, to the BP oil spill.
Like any good apocalyptic vision of self-wrought hell, the greatest environmental disaster in U.S. history has its inherent poetry. You see that creeping ooze of black, that ungodly wall of unstoppable darkness as it slowly, inexorably invades the relatively healthy, pristine waters adjacent, and you can't help but appreciate the brutal majesty, the fantastic, reeking horror of this new manifestation of black death we have brought upon ourselves, as it spreads like a fast cancer into the liquid womb of Mother Nature herself.
Really, it's not just the incredible photographs of the spill that are, in turns, heartbreaking, stunning, otherworldly and downright Satanic in their abject revulsion. It's not just the statistics that tell us how many millions of gallons might ultimately be spilled, or the stunned scientists who can only hypothesize how this unprecedented catastrophe might affect the fragile food chain and distress the ocean's ecosystems at the very root level.
It's not even the endless, heartrending tales of livelihoods lost, industries destroyed, coastlines ravaged or wildlife killed. The fact is, any one of these aspects alone is enough to poison your soul for as long as you wish to wallow in that murky state of fatalism and doom. It is nothing but bleak.
I think the most disturbingly satisfying thrill of this entire event -- and it is, in a way, a perverse thrill -- comes from understanding, at a very core level, our shared responsibility, our co-creation of the foul demon currently unleashed.
What a thing we have created. What an extraordinary horror our rapacious need for cheap, endless energy hath unleashed; it's a monster of a scale and proportion we can barely even fathom.
Because if you're honest, no matter where you stand, no matter your politics, religion, income or mode of transport, you see this beast of creeping death and you understand: That is us. The spill may be many things, but more than anything else it is a giant, horrifying mirror.
Do you wish to try and deflect it? Lay responsibility elsewhere? Really? We can't quite blame an "act of God," as we would for some sort of hurricane or tsunami inflicted upon meager humankind by an angry deity, punishing us all for being too war-like, violent or perhaps naïve enough to want to enjoy the sunshine for five goddamn minutes before He decided He'd better kill some people lest we forget who's in charge.
We cannot blame evil terrorists, some cluster of swarthy foreigners who hate our shopping malls and secretly envy our Porsche Cayenne's. Nor can we blame the spill on some sort of nefarious conspiracy, a secret act wrought by devious agents in black helicopters designed to destabilize the U.N. and induce universal mind control -- unless, of course, you're getting a little desperate and don't get outside much, in which case, you absolutely can.
Finally (and a bit shockingly), I'm not hearing Pat Robertson or any of his cretinous cult of apocalypticans blame the gays, or voodoo, or anal sex, or reality TV for what's happening in the Gulf. Oil is, after all, completely non-denominational. It mocks all religions equally -- except, of course, the only one that really matters: capitalism.
This is how you know this is one of the more universally damning disasters of our time: No one really seems to know how to process it, much less react. The GOP is backtracking like terrified hyenas from Sarah "Queen of Duh" Palin's "drill baby, drill" mantra/ass tattoo, as suddenly the incessant Republican wail for more oil exploration, more drilling, more tax cuts for oil conglomerates don't just reek of the usual inbred cronyism; they reek of death and destruction the likes of which the country has never seen.
On the other hand, hardcore lefties are going mad with desire that the disaster will lead to the immediate imprisonment of every BP employee worldwide, as if BP is somehow any different than any other oil titan raping the planet right now (hi, Alberta's oilsands). Hardcore lefties would also appreciate it if Obama would use the disaster as a surefire excuse to instantly change the entire course of energy history by immediately shutting down all 48,000 oil wells in the Gulf and hand every American a bicycle and a solar panel. See? All better.
Sure. As if oil wasn't woven like oxygen into every single aspect of American life, as if fully 30 percent of domestic transportation fuel didn't come from the gulf, as if shutting down a fraction of those wells wouldn't re-devastate the economy, as if petroleum and coal weren't powering the very energy plants that deliver the electricity that charges the iPhones that allows everyone to Tweet their angry complaints through all the various energy-sucking server farms the size of a small country.
Truly, BP is behaving no better or worse than any other corporate spawn of Satan would in a similar situation. What's more, if you don't think every oil company on earth is right now kneeling before Beelzebub in gratitude that it wasn't one of their own wells that exploded, you haven't been paying attention.
That said, after all is said and done, it's gloomily nice to think our darkest disaster in a generation could somehow ultimately improve our attitudes, change our behavior, lighten our violent treatment of the planet. As someone recently noted, the BP spill isn't Obama's Katrina, it's actually Big Oil's Chernobyl. Meaning: a disaster so appalling and devastating it might very well alter the industry and change the course of our energy policy forever.
Is it possible? Or, more accurately, are we even capable of such a shift? Is there any silver lining to be found in that black and greasy gloom? This is, perhaps, the most imperative question of all: If we can produce a demon of such extraordinary scale and devastation, can we not also somehow create its exact opposite? Let us pray.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fg%2Fa%2F2010%2F06%2F04%2Fnotes060410.DTL
Put in its coarsest terms, are you saying,
"Even the stupidest, most obtuse, dumbest fool can see that we have the ultimate capability to shiat in our own nest so badly that we may foul it beyond our ability to clean it up enough to live in it"?
'Cuz, if that's what you're saying, I'd respond that I think there are some so stupid that they would deny that they were dying as they were being eaten by an alligator, if it didn't fit their personal agenda.
Quote from: followsthewolf on June 04, 2010, 01:24:31 PM
Put in its coarsest terms, are you saying,
"Even the stupidest, most obtuse, dumbest fool can see that we have the ultimate capability to shiat in our own nest so badly that we may foul it beyond our ability to clean it up enough to live in it"?
'Cuz, if that's what you're saying, I'd respond that I think there are some so stupid that they would deny that they were dying as they were being eaten by an alligator, if it didn't fit their personal agenda.
BINGO!!
"Since the environmental implications of the projects are not fully understood, BP assumes no liability for unexpected or unintended consequences of these projects," the company said on its website.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 04, 2010, 04:11:19 PM
"Since the environmental implications of the projects are not fully understood, BP assumes no liability for unexpected or unintended consequences of these projects," the company said on its website.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
You know I just had a horrible thought go through my head. BP is not US owned so we really have no control over the company as such so is it not possible they may just decide to pull out of the US market altogether sell to China and other foreign countries and tell us sorry 'bout your bad luck. :spooked:
Quote from: me on June 04, 2010, 04:59:59 PM
You know I just had a horrible thought go through my head. BP is not US owned so we really have no control over the company as such so is it not possible they may just decide to pull out of the US market altogether sell to China and other foreign countries and tell us sorry 'bout your bad luck. :spooked:
Not unless they want to leave tens of thousands of franchise owners high and dry. . . (Which a lot of them are starting to feel like anyway. . .)
Quote from: Palehorse on June 04, 2010, 05:02:05 PM
Not unless they want to leave tens of thousands of franchise owners high and dry. . . (Which a lot of them are starting to feel like anyway. . .)
I really don't think it would concern them, BP. I think if I were a franchisee I would be checking out alternatives quickly. I fully understand boycott too but it really hurts the business man and employees more in the long run than it does the company being boycotted. Kind of leaves the consumer between a rock and a hard place.
Quote from: me on June 04, 2010, 05:06:36 PM
I really don't think it would concern them, BP. I think if I were a franchisee I would be checking out alternatives quickly. I fully understand boycott too but it really hurts the business man and employees more in the long run than it does the company being boycotted. Kind of leaves the consumer between a rock and a hard place.
Oh come on. . . given the plethora of gasoline / fuel stations in this country???
IIRC BP locks their franchisees into an exclusivity agreement that precludes brand hopping. . . financially. . . unless it is to a subsidiary. . .
Given the big bill these guys are going to have to pay, I don't think they are willing to cut and run from the US market by choice. Now should US consumers come to equate the brand with environmental abuse or some other negative connotations they may not have a choice either. Of course, this may be the end days for BP globally anyway. As big as this spill is the stain upon the brand image is going to be 100 times larger, no matter how it ends up now. That brand will deep six within 24 months after this. . .
Quote from: me on June 04, 2010, 04:59:59 PM
You know I just had a horrible thought go through my head. BP is not US owned so we really have no control over the company as such so is it not possible they may just decide to pull out of the US market altogether sell to China and other foreign countries and tell us sorry 'bout your bad luck. :spooked:
I'll bet you a C-note that there are three other oil companies that would just love that. If they would do that, I would love to know it just before it happens. I would buy a lot of Texaco stock.
Another "horrible thought go through my mind" :flap: :flap: :flap: :wall: :wall:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 04, 2010, 05:16:19 PM
Oh come on. . . given the plethora of gasoline / fuel stations in this country???
IIRC BP locks their franchisees into an exclusivity agreement that precludes brand hopping. . . financially. . . unless it is to a subsidiary. . .
Given the big bill these guys are going to have to pay, I don't think they are willing to cut and run from the US market by choice. Now should US consumers come to equate the brand with environmental abuse or some other negative connotations they may not have a choice either. Of course, this may be the end days for BP globally anyway. As big as this spill is the stain upon the brand image is going to be 100 times larger, no matter how it ends up now. That brand will deep six within 24 months after this. . .
Your right, they will change names, same people at the top, except the CEO, they give a $20 to $50 million dollars to go away. The sign companies will make some money changing the signs, other than that it will still be the same cash cow. Screwing America and the Americans.
The Troll, watching the predatory capitalist corporations screw America. :flag: :flag: :flag:
Quote from: The Troll on June 05, 2010, 10:07:41 PM
Your right, they will change names, same people at the top, except the CEO, they give a $20 to $50 million dollars to go away. The sign companies will make some money changing the signs, other than that it will still be the same cash cow. Screwing America and the Americans.
The Troll, watching the predatory capitalist corporations screw America. :flag: :flag: :flag:
Exactly Troll!
What I find infuriating is the fact BP has been running around saying everything is going so well, but when you look at the live feed its the same old cloud of oil spewing despite their claims. . . :mad: :mad: :mad:
I got a question, how does BP have the power to have a "flight control" that can keep private aircraft out and over "international waters". Just what would they do about it. Do they have jet interceptors to shoot down these aircraft.
What we need is to get some of these pilots that flew in drugs in to fly over it. They wouldn't never be seen by BP or the government. :rotfl: :rotfl:
Really I think we have a new media that doesn't have the balls to put up a fight against these bullies and be arrested for trespassing on a public beach. No balls just pussies. Get arrested and really make some news. They could really set up the bully cops and BP thugs and get all of tape with sound. What a show it would make.
Also why don't these shrimpers and fisherman carry a camera and a camcorder and record the fucking mess they got down there. Surely CBS and MSMBC would carry it on TV. You would never see it on fox.
Quote from: The Troll on June 06, 2010, 09:05:28 AM
I got a question, how does BP have the power to have a "flight control" that can keep private aircraft out and over "international waters". Just what would they do about it. Do they have jet interceptors to shoot down these aircraft.
What we need is to get some of these pilots that flew in drugs in to fly over it. They wouldn't never be seen by BP or the government. :rotfl: :rotfl:
Really I think we have a new media that doesn't have the balls to put up a fight against these bullies and be arrested for trespassing on a public beach. No balls just pussies. Get arrested and really make some news. They could really set up the bully cops and BP thugs and get all of tape with sound. What a show it would make.
Also why don't these shrimpers and fisherman carry a camera and a camcorder and record the fucking mess they got down there. Surely CBS and MSMBC would carry it on TV. You would never see it on fox.
Boy do you ever have that wrong.
Quote from: me on June 06, 2010, 10:40:20 AM
Boy do you ever have that wrong.
Tell me, Old One, with head in butt all of the time. :genius: How am I wrong. :sweetheart:
They are reporting the bad things about BP and have not excused what's going on at all. If you think for one minute they don't keep up with what's going on with BP, and there has been nothing good reported, you'd be kiddin' yourself and listening to the spin and doing just what is expected of you little sheeples.
Quote from: me on June 06, 2010, 11:23:48 AM
They are reporting the bad things about BP and have not excused what's going on at all. If you think for one minute they don't keep up with what's going on with BP, and there has been nothing good reported, you'd be kiddin' yourself and listening to the spin and doing just what is expected of you little sheeples.
Did you know watching Fox News all of the time destroyes brain cell. You can't hear me? WATCHING FOX NEW ALL OF THE TIME, DESTROYES BRAIN CELLS. "ME" :chair: Fox News :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: The Troll on June 06, 2010, 12:49:26 PM
Did you know watching Fox News all of the time destroyes brain cell. You can't hear me? WATCHING FOX NEW ALL OF THE TIME, DESTROYES BRAIN CELLS. "ME" :chair: Fox News :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Gooood little sheeple......goooood little sheeple. :rolleyes:
STILL SPEWING!
I was watching an old man talking on TV the other night. Can't remember what channel, I know it wasn't Fox. This long, long time oil man, who has fought many oil spills, said that this the the worst oil spill in the recorded history of earth.
He said that we might have to use a nuclear bomb to blow and glassily the well shut. That the Russians have done it four time. But they were all on land.
But he brought up one very interestion and horrifying thought. A hurricane. He said if a hurricane hits it will "Paint the Southern coast black" closing all oil and gas platforms down and business and home on the coast.
If we could find a person to has a direct line to the man, maybe he send a message and :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: Just think Pat Robertson told us, that New Orleans love of gays has cause all of these problems. Let us :pray: Somebody say Amen.
I thought what about all of the ships that are out at the site of the oil spill that are drilling relief wells and trying to pump the oil as its come out of the pipe. It looks thing could get worse and get worse fast. Something to think about, something we, here can't do a damn thing about.
Come on TV Pat Robertson and admit it's all your fault. You got God into this.
BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina
By more than a 2-to-1 margin, Americans support the pursuit of criminal charges in the nation's worst oil spill (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/page/Gulf-Oil-Spill) , with increasing numbers calling it a major environmental disaster. Eight in 10 criticize the way BP's (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/BP-p.l.c.) handled it – and more people give the federal government's response (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=10839096) a negative rating than did the response to Hurricane Katrina (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Hurricane-Katrina).
A month and a half after the spill began, 69 percent in a new ABC News/Washington Post (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Washington-Post-Company) poll rate the federal response negatively. That compares with a 62 negative rating for the response to Katrina two weeks after the August 2005 hurricane.
Three Ways to Fix the Gulf
Americans share their ingenious ideas to stop the oil spill and clean up the region
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRVYk0oceg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRVYk0oceg)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 10:35:02 AM
Three Ways to Fix the Gulf
Americans share their ingenious ideas to stop the oil spill and clean up the region
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRVYk0oceg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRVYk0oceg)
Seems like they should have at least listened to the second person who has experience dealing with oil spills and has had success with his method. I have heard of others who have had valid ideas too who weren't given a chance to suggest them to BP. This whole thing is really beginning to stink bad and I don't mean the oil. Something just isn't right.
WHY are there not hundreds of boats and ships along the coast?....if they are, the TV is not reporting them.....we should have implemented a couple of these ideas already....what is going on?....one has to ask, WHY? :confused:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 10:25:01 AM
BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina
By more than a 2-to-1 margin, Americans support the pursuit of criminal charges in the nation's worst oil spill (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/page/Gulf-Oil-Spill) , with increasing numbers calling it a major environmental disaster. Eight in 10 criticize the way BP's (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/BP-p.l.c.) handled it – and more people give the federal government's response (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=10839096) a negative rating than did the response to Hurricane Katrina (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Hurricane-Katrina).
A month and a half after the spill began, 69 percent in a new ABC News/Washington Post (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Washington-Post-Company) poll rate the federal response negatively. That compares with a 62 negative rating for the response to Katrina two weeks after the August 2005 hurricane.
Please fill me in Henry, what are you talking about, 69% neg. on oil spill, 63% neg. on Katrina. Just what are you trying to say.
In your world there would be no federal govenment. In your world there would be no government help, so what are bitching about.
They want a certain head on a pike!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 11:23:35 AM
WHY are there not hundreds of boats and ships along the coast?....if they are, the TV is not reporting them.....we should have implemented a couple of these ideas already....what is going on?....one has to ask, WHY? :confused:
Henry you got one real problem, you got a job and you can't see live TV shows on this oil spill. I don't think you got to spend the time on the waters of the gulf, Mobile Bay, Perdo Bay, Weeks Bay and the Intercostal Waterway that I have.
I have walk the beaches of Gulf Shores Al, Orange Beach AL. spent time with my boat on and around Tampa Bay, Mobile Bay, Weeks Bay and Perdo Bay. I think you know the problem.
I hate to say this, the people who are trying to clean up the oil right now is a waste of time and energy. Save the Bays, save the marshes, save the Intercoastal Waterway. Save the birds.
But until they stop the gushing oil, everyday the same amount on oil well gather on the beaches. Wait until you can get a large amount. Nothing can be done about saving the fish in the Gulf. But we got to save the hatcheries of these fish, shrimp and other sea life. The bays, marshes put your people there now and stop the oil before it get there.
Quote from: The Troll on June 08, 2010, 12:49:52 PM
Please fill me in Henry, what are you talking about, 69% neg. on oil spill, 63% neg. on Katrina. Just what are you trying to say.
In your world there would be no federal govenment. In your world there would be no government help, so what are bitching about.
read the article, I did not write it......I just thought it was interesting......and since you only watch MSNBC, you probably think everybody just LOVES how things are going right now....I thought I might enlighten you to some truths.. :razz: ;)
Quote from: The Troll on June 08, 2010, 01:10:38 PM
Henry you got one real problem, you got a job and you can't see live TV shows on this oil spill. I don't think you got to spend the time on the waters of the gulf, Mobile Bay, Perdo Bay, Weeks Bay and the Intercostal Waterway that I have.
I have walk the beaches of Gulf Shores Al, Orange Beach AL. spent time with my boat on and around Tampa Bay, Mobile Bay, Weeks Bay and Perdo Bay. I think you know the problem.
I hate to say this, the people who are trying to clean up the oil right now is a waste of time and energy. Save the Bays, save the marshes, save the Intercoastal Waterway. Save the birds.
But until they stop the gushing oil, everyday the same amount on oil well gather on the beaches. Wait until you can get a large amount. Nothing can be done about saving the fish in the Gulf. But we got to save the hatcheries of these fish, shrimp and other sea life. The bays, marshes put your people there now and stop the oil before it get there.
THAT is a bad attitude to have, with the "there is nothing can be done about saving the fish in the Gulf"....there ARE some great Idea's out there that are not being implemented or even TRIED!!....sitting back and waiting for them to 'stop' this oil is NOT a good approach to this.......hell, they may not stop this until fall!!...we cannot sit back and wait......THAT is what the admin is doing....
Troll, I have been down in the Pan handle area a few times, and I have fished of of the coast of Panama...and I am sick to my stomach about this WHOLE fiasco....I think we need to be doing everything possible to save as much of the wild life and fish as possible.....and worry about who is going to pay for it AFTER we get a grip on it...........I have no doubts that BP is going to have to empty their pockets on this one....there ARE some ideas we GOT to at least TRY...
Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2010, 01:02:20 PM
They want a certain head on a pike!
no just out of office....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 01:18:50 PM
THAT is a bad attitude to have, with the "there is nothing can be done about saving the fish in the Gulf"....there ARE some great Idea's out there that are not being implemented or even TRIED!!....sitting back and waiting for them to 'stop' this oil is NOT a good approach to this.......hell, they may not stop this until fall!!...we cannot sit back and wait......THAT is what the admin is doing....
Troll, I have been down in the Pan handle area a few times, and I have fished of of the coast of Panama...and I am sick to my stomach about this WHOLE fiasco....I think we need to be doing everything possible to save as much of the wild life and fish as possible.....and worry about who is going to pay for it AFTER we get a grip on it...........I have no doubts that BP is going to have to empty their pockets on this one....there ARE some ideas we GOT to at least TRY...
No Henry, it is not a bad attitude, it reality when I speak. You been there, you seen how big the Gulf is. Tell he what are they going to do save the fish out in the Gulf. Their breathing oil, their eating oil, their covered with oil. Tell how is Man is going to save these fish. Henry take a aquarium full of fish, nice pretty expense fish and put a shot glass of dirty motor oil, it's cleaner than crude and pour in the water and see how long you have fish and a clean aquarium.
SAVE WHAT THEY CAN, HELL WITH THE REST UNTIL THEY GET IT TURNED OFF. We all are going to have to pay for it, one way or the other. You surely know what life really like by now.
ATTENTION
AC 360 Anderson Cooper Exclusive BP Surivors CNN tonight 10 ET
I'm going to watch.
Quote from: The Troll on June 08, 2010, 01:33:37 PM
No Henry, it is not a bad attitude, it reality when I speak. You been there, you seen how big the Gulf is. Tell he what are they going to do save the fish out in the Gulf. Their breathing oil, their eating oil, their covered with oil. Tell how is Man is going to save these fish. Henry take a aquarium full of fish, nice pretty expense fish and put a shot glass of dirty motor oil, it's cleaner than crude and pour in the water and see how long you have fish and a clean aquarium.
SAVE WHAT THEY CAN, HELL WITH THE REST UNTIL THEY GET IT TURNED OFF. We all are going to have to pay for it, one way or the other. You surely know what life really like by now.
I have NO freaking doubt that WE ALL will pay for it....in some shape, way or form....I know we GOT to cap it, but we should not rest until this thing is ALL cleaned up....but sitting back and waiting is NOT good enough.....if I had an aquarium with crude oil in it, I would not WAIT until my fish died before I at least TRIED to save them....
Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2010, 01:39:33 PM
And that is different how?
not quite as barbaric as you seem to want to portray....I didn't want him there two years ago, and I am only confident that my choice back then was the right one now...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 01:45:53 PM
not quite as barbaric as you seem to want to portray....I didn't want him there two years ago, and I am only confident that my choice back then was the right one now...
YIKES!
Interestingly your ire does not extend toward the purveyors of this black death though. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2010, 01:50:01 PM
Interestingly your ire does not extend toward the purveyors of this black death though. . .
and WHY would you say that?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 04:06:34 PM
and WHY would you say that?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 01, 2010, 02:25:00 PM
I think you need to give them a chance first to see how they handle things AFTER they stop it....
Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2010, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2010, 04:14:23 PM
I STILL do!!!.....but, that does not mean I think it SUCKS that BP AND our Government did NOT have a 'Plan' IF and WHEN such an event happens...it is not all BP's fault...there is plenty of blame to go around......they have said from the begginning that they would pay for ALL damages.....and it wasn't even two weeks and the left was ready to take them to court.....HELL, let them have a chance to prove themselves....they HAVE been kind of busy...at least they are not partying with Paul McCartney and playing golf every day...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 04:19:34 PM
I STILL do!!!.....but, that does not mean I think it SUCKS that BP AND our Government did NOT have a 'Plan' IF and WHEN such an event happens...it is not all BP's fault...there is plenty of blame to go around......they have said from the begginning that they would pay for ALL damages.....and it wasn't even two weeks and the left was ready to take them to court.....HELL, let them have a chance to prove themselves....they HAVE been kind of busy...
Exactly my point!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 04:23:58 PM
Have they stopped it yet?
No, bottom - kill is in full swing. . . But you seem to think the POTUS can stop it. . . :rolleyes:
. . . "AC360°," five survivors of the rig tell Anderson Cooper about the days leading up to the explosion. Watch "AC360°" at 10 ET Tuesday night, live from the Gulf.
(CNN) -- The morning the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, a BP executive and a Transocean official argued over how to proceed with the drilling, rig survivors told CNN's Anderson Cooper in an exclusive interview.
The survivors' account paints perhaps the most detailed picture yet of what happened on the deepwater rig -- and the possible causes of the April 20 explosion.
The BP official wanted workers to replace heavy mud, used to keep the well's pressure down, with lighter seawater to help speed a process that was costing an estimated $750,000 a day and was already running five weeks late, rig survivors told CNN.
BP won the argument, said Doug Brown, the rig's chief mechanic. "He basically said, 'Well, this is how it's gonna be.' "
"That's what the big argument was about," added Daniel Barron III.
Shortly after the exchange, chief driller Dewey Revette expressed concern and opposition too, the workers said, and on the drilling floor, they chatted among themselves.
"I don't ever remember doing this," they said, according to Barron.
"I think that's why Dewey was so reluctant to try to do it," Barron said, "because he didn't feel it was the right way to have things done."
Tracking the spill
Video: Survivors of oil rig explosion speak Video: Oil spill from year 1910 still visible Video: Florida's wildlife in danger
Revette was among the 11 workers killed when the rig exploded that night.
In the CNN interviews, the workers described a corporate culture of cutting staff and ignoring warning signs ahead of the blast. They said BP routinely cut corners and pushed ahead despite concerns about safety.
The rig survivors also said it was always understood that you could get fired if you raised safety concerns that might delay drilling. Some co-workers had been fired for speaking out, they said.. . .
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/08/oil.rig.warning.signs/index.html?hpt=T2 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/08/oil.rig.warning.signs/index.html?hpt=T2)
Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2010, 04:29:56 PM
No, bottom - kill is in full swing. . . But you seem to think the POTUS can stop it. . . :rolleyes:
I know he can't stop it, he already proved that!!....he can yell "stop the damn leak!!"....but THAT didn't work...so, he went back to playin golf...and hangin with McCartney.....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 04:39:13 PM
I know he can't stop it, he already proved that!!....he can yell "stop the damn leak!!"....but THAT didn't work...so, he went back to playin golf...and hangin with McCartney.....
So, it is your opinion that the POTUS has nothing else on his plate, just the oil spill huh?
Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2010, 04:38:38 PM
. . . "AC360°," five survivors of the rig tell Anderson Cooper about the days leading up to the explosion. Watch "AC360°" at 10 ET Tuesday night, live from the Gulf.
(CNN) -- The morning the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, a BP executive and a Transocean official argued over how to proceed with the drilling, rig survivors told CNN's Anderson Cooper in an exclusive interview.
The survivors' account paints perhaps the most detailed picture yet of what happened on the deepwater rig -- and the possible causes of the April 20 explosion.
The BP official wanted workers to replace heavy mud, used to keep the well's pressure down, with lighter seawater to help speed a process that was costing an estimated $750,000 a day and was already running five weeks late, rig survivors told CNN.
BP won the argument, said Doug Brown, the rig's chief mechanic. "He basically said, 'Well, this is how it's gonna be.' "
"That's what the big argument was about," added Daniel Barron III.
Shortly after the exchange, chief driller Dewey Revette expressed concern and opposition too, the workers said, and on the drilling floor, they chatted among themselves.
"I don't ever remember doing this," they said, according to Barron.
"I think that's why Dewey was so reluctant to try to do it," Barron said, "because he didn't feel it was the right way to have things done."
Tracking the spill
Video: Survivors of oil rig explosion speak Video: Oil spill from year 1910 still visible Video: Florida's wildlife in danger
Revette was among the 11 workers killed when the rig exploded that night.
In the CNN interviews, the workers described a corporate culture of cutting staff and ignoring warning signs ahead of the blast. They said BP routinely cut corners and pushed ahead despite concerns about safety.
The rig survivors also said it was always understood that you could get fired if you raised safety concerns that might delay drilling. Some co-workers had been fired for speaking out, they said.. . .
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/08/oil.rig.warning.signs/index.html?hpt=T2 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/08/oil.rig.warning.signs/index.html?hpt=T2)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 04:19:34 PM
I STILL do!!!.....but, that does not mean I think it SUCKS that BP AND our Government did NOT have a 'Plan' IF and WHEN such an event happens...it is not all BP's fault...there is plenty of blame to go around......they have said from the begginning that they would pay for ALL damages.....and it wasn't even two weeks and the left was ready to take them to court.....HELL, let them have a chance to prove themselves....they HAVE been kind of busy...at least they are not partying with Paul McCartney and playing golf every day...
IT IS NOT ALL BP'S FAULT. Pardon me for a second. OK Troll, count 1 2 3 4 are you OK---- what it HELL do you mean it's not BP's fault. It was their idea, they supervised the drill, they hired the contractors to do the job and it was their rush to get the well completed, that caused the GOD DAMN SPILL!
What kind of an asshole would complain about the President having Paul McCartney to the White House and Obama playing golf playing golf everyday, now that's absolutely bullshit.
After George W. spent more time of vacation, most of in Texas, than any president in the history of the United states of America, you dare to say anything about Obama.
Henry, I really doubt your mental capability. You definitely have a loose wire and some dead shorts and some blown fuses.
And to top all of this off, reports are surfacing of a second well leaking, and it has been since April 30th! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Analysis of three oil plumes (sub surface) discovered and confirmed that at least one of them is from a second oil well! :mad: :mad: :mad:
why didn't our government (and that means republican AND democrats)....have a plan, for such an event?....
THAT is what I mean by it is not ALL BP's fault....
the bottom line is, a horrible, horrible accident has occurred, and I'm not saying it's Obama's fault PH!!, but THIS was a time for leadership, and he has failed....at least that is what MOST Americans beleive, that he has done worse than Bush did with Katrina, and we all know what YOU guys thought about that...
I think Obama needs to quit worrying about who's ass to kick and get the proper help out there to stop and fix this problem.....it is quite obvious that BP is struggling with this...finding out WHO's fault this is, is NOT going to fix things.....we need to fix it, despite who's fault it is...........get the freaking Navy out there building sand bars, do anything to assure that our government is trying it's absolute best to resolve this crisis...Obama has failed on his one and only attempt to lead over this situation....period.
that is what happens when you elect a one term senator who's only experience was a community organizer..... :rant:
I think it is YOU who has a loose wire and some dead shorts....cuz YOU think this guy is the annoited one JUST because he is a democrat.... :rolleyes:
let's get real now folks.....the fun and games is over and we need some REAL leaders back in washington....I don't think they can get MORE screwed up than things are right now!!!. :rant:
g'nite....
He has not failed in this American's view. . .
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 08, 2010, 05:09:23 PM
why didn't our government (and that means republican AND democrats)....have a plan, for such an event?....
THAT is what I mean by it is not ALL BP's fault....
the bottom line is, a horrible, horrible accident has occurred, and I'm not saying it's Obama's fault PH!!, but THIS was a time for leadership, and he has failed....at least that is what MOST Americans beleive, that he has done worse than Bush did with Katrina, and we all know what YOU guys thought about that...
I think Obama needs to quit worrying about who's ass to kick and get the proper help out there to stop and fix this problem.....it is quite obvious that BP is struggling with this...finding out WHO's fault this is, is NOT going to fix things.....we need to fix it, despite who's fault it is...........get the freaking Navy out there building sand bars, do anything to assure that our government is trying it's absolute best to resolve this crisis...Obama has failed on his one and only attempt to lead over this situation....period.
that is what happens when you elect a one term senator who's only experience was a community organizer..... :rant:
I think it is YOU who has a loose wire and some dead shorts....cuz YOU think this guy is the annoited one JUST because he is a democrat.... :rolleyes:
let's get real now folks.....the fun and games is over and we need some REAL leaders back in washington....I don't think they can get MORE screwed up than things are right now!!!. :rant:
g'nite....
Let's see Obama is a failed leader and you want the Republicans brought back because they are good and excellent leaders.
Let's see, George W. and Prick Chaney and the top the Republican Party were such wonderful leaders. Two wars, lasting over 6 years costing the USA over a trillion dollars. The collapse of the banks and stockmarket. Committing war crimes, and crimes against our own Constitution with taps on telephones and cell phones and snooping into things that were protected by our Constitution and elimination regulations which corrupted the entire country.
And Henry you call that leadership. Henry I call that :bsflag: :bsflag: :bsflag:
Quote from: The Troll on June 08, 2010, 06:00:40 PM
Let's see Obama is a failed leader and you want the Republicans brought back because they are good and excellent leaders.
Let's see, George W. and Prick Chaney and the top the Republican Party were such wonderful leaders. Two wars, lasting over 6 years costing the USA over a trillion dollars. The collapse of the banks and stockmarket. Committing war crimes, and crimes against our own Constitution with taps on telephones and cell phones and snooping into things that were protected by our Constitution and elimination regulations which corrupted the entire country.
And Henry you call that leadership. Henry I call that :bsflag: :bsflag: :bsflag:
Like I've said before Troll, don't look now but Obama is still using the wire and cell phone tapping and has taken it to a new level, Facebook and other social networking sites. He has decided that it wasn't against the constitution at all.....Imagine that.... :rolleyes:
Quote from: me on June 08, 2010, 06:48:15 PM
Like I've said before Troll, don't look now but Obama is still using the wire and cell phone tapping and has taken it to a new level, Facebook and other social networking sites. He has decided that it wasn't against the constitution at all.....Imagine that.... :rolleyes:
In a federal lawsuit, the Obama legal team argued that judges lack the authority to enforce their own rulings in classified matters of national security. The standoff concerned the Oregon chapter of the Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, a Saudi Arabian charity that was shut down in 2004 on evidence that it was financing al Qaeda. Al-Haramain sued the Bush Administration in 2005, claiming it had been illegally wiretapped.
At the heart of Al-Haramain's case was a classified document that it says proves that the alleged eavesdropping was not authorized under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. That record was inadvertently disclosed after Al-Haramain was designated as a terrorist organization; the Bush Administration declared such documents state secrets after their existence became known.
In July 2009, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the President's right to do so, which should have ended the matter. But the San Francisco panel also returned the case to the presiding district court judge, Vaughn Walker, ordering him to decide if FISA pre-empts the state secrets privilege. If he did, Al-Haramain would have been allowed to use the document to establish the standing to litigate.
In the end the courts upheld the executive power of the POTUS, especially over matters of state secret(s) during war time. . .
So if that is "endorsement" of the Shrub's policy, or should I say Shotgun Cheney's, along with David Addington, then so be it. And if you want to try to club him over his continuation of such policies, then I submit that you should have exercised that right back when the Shrub first invoked them. . . But that horse has left the barn already hasn't it?!
At the same time, the POTUS's non-supportive position surrounding this initiative pre-election, is only an indication of the level of access to information he obtained post election. I certainly would not want a POTUS sticking to his promises at the cost of national security. . . would you?
Quote from: me on June 08, 2010, 06:48:15 PM
.... Obama is still using the wire and cell phone tapping ...
Is he? I know he asked for the Al-Haramain illegal wiretap lawsuit against President Bush
et al to be dismissed, on the grounds it would reveal "state secrets," but I haven't heard anything about him authorizing new wiretaps. Since he (and Bush) lost that round, I would be very surprised to find any evidence of new wiretaps that didn't have a FISA warrant.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/opinion/04sun1.html
I'm not defending Obama here. He promised to reverse the Bush administration's policy of privacy violation, and asking for the lawsuit to be dismissed broke that promise. However, that is NOT THE SAME as continuing to tap the communications and read the mail of US citizens. May I please see your source?
Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2010, 07:10:41 PM
In the end the courts upheld the executive power of the POTUS, especially over matters of state secret(s) during war time. . .
They did?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/us/01nsa.html
Was there an appeal I missed?
Quote from: LOsborne on June 08, 2010, 07:14:50 PM
Is he? I know he asked for the Al-Haramain illegal wiretap lawsuit against President Bush et al to be dismissed, on the grounds it would reveal "state secrets," but I haven't heard anything about him authorizing new wiretaps. Since he (and Bush) lost that round, I would be very surprised to find any evidence of new wiretaps that didn't have a FISA warrant.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/opinion/04sun1.html
I'm not defending Obama here. He promised to reverse the Bush administration's policy of privacy violation, and asking for the lawsuit to be dismissed broke that promise. However, that is NOT THE SAME as continuing to tap the communications and read the mail of US citizens. May I please see your source?
No, I had not heard of Walker's final ruling. I was speaking only of the previous litigation. . . :spooked:
DoJ has a lot of hard choices sitting on their plates given this ruling. . . And it looks like the Shrub will end up with egg on his face. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2010, 07:20:31 PM
No, I had not heard of Walker's final ruling. I was speaking only of the previous litigation. . .
Then I take it you have not heard of any warrantless wiretaps during the present administration, either? Looks like
me needs to pay a bit more attention to her phraseology, then. She said
He has decided that it wasn't against the constitution at all. That is evidently not the case at all. The only thing President Obama objected to was
revealing the facts learned by that particular illegal wiretap.
Quote from: LOsborne on June 08, 2010, 07:25:56 PM
Then I take it you have not heard of any warrantless wiretaps during the present administration, either? Looks like me needs to pay a bit more attention to her phraseology, then. She said He has decided that it wasn't against the constitution at all. That is evidently not the case at all. The only thing President Obama objected to was revealing the facts learned by that particular illegal wiretap.
Nope, I haven't. But I am certainly not in a position to say one way or another whether they are taking place now or not either. And I am not stupid enough to believe that when it involves matters of national security that they wouldn't take place.
That crap is well above my pay grade! :yes:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 08, 2010, 07:28:58 PM
And I am not stupid enough to believe that when it involves matters of national security that they wouldn't take place.
I am. Any government sanctioned eavesdropper who monitors all of Facebook would have drool dripping down his chin.
Quote from: LOsborne on June 08, 2010, 07:31:56 PM
I am. Any government sanctioned eavesdropper who monitors all of Facebook would have drool dripping down his chin.
That's why they use crawlers and software that targets key words, phrases, etc. . . Then the stupid human tricks come into play! :biggrin:
Quote from: me on June 08, 2010, 06:48:15 PM
Like I've said before Troll, don't look now but Obama is still using the wire and cell phone tapping and has taken it to a new level, Facebook and other social networking sites. He has decided that it wasn't against the constitution at all.....Imagine that.... :rolleyes:
Hey, your cutesy woosey little baby George W. "W, like in wuissy) made it legal, why not cash in of what you little tootsy Georgie woogy did. I think the way you loved Georgie Porgie you would love Obama using his laws. Right. Woggy, Woggy. :sweetheart:
Quote from: The Troll on June 08, 2010, 07:34:46 PM
Hey, your cutesy woosey little baby George W. "W, like in wuissy) made it legal, why not cash in of what you little tootsy Georgie woogy did. I think the way you loved Georgie Porgie you would love Obama using his laws. Right. Woggy, Woggy. :sweetheart:
No matter how you try to spin it what was done was legal and was done to protect the US and it's citizens and that is why it is still being done.
Quote from: me on June 08, 2010, 10:53:34 PM
No matter how you try to spin it what was done was legal and was done to protect the US and it's citizens and that is why it is still being done.
Maybe not. . . According to Walker's ruling on this. . .
Quote from: me on June 08, 2010, 10:53:34 PM
... and that is why it is still being done.
Will you
please provide your source for this statement? I look and look and look, and I find nothing with a dateline of 2010, or even 2009.
If you're gonna say, you're gonna have to prove it.
Quote from: LOsborne on June 09, 2010, 07:37:50 AM
Will you please provide your source for this statement? I look and look and look, and I find nothing with a dateline of 2010, or even 2009.
If you're gonna say, you're gonna have to prove it.
I Goggled in "judge walker's ruling on wire taping" and got a whole screen full of information of it.