This got started in the "Random Thoughts" thread and I'd like to see where this discussion goes so I thought I'd move it here so that we don't disturb the nature of that thread.
Quote from: Olias on September 15, 2009, 03:30:38 PM
Here's another 'celebrity' weighing in...
Of course he will be vilified for it.
"Obama Calls Kanye West a 'Jackass'"
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/15/obama-calls-kanye-west-jackass/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/15/obama-calls-kanye-west-jackass/)
Quote from: me on September 15, 2009, 03:43:09 PM
Why should he be vilified for it? He did, after all, state his feelings and they are pretty much what everyone else thinks.
Quote from: Olias on September 15, 2009, 03:46:00 PM
Trust me ... when it makes the Faux News headlines, can World Nut Daily be far behind?
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on September 15, 2009, 04:35:01 PM
So it's okay to say Kanye is a jackass but not okay to say Crowley "acted stupidly". I wonder why that is :think: :biggrin:
Just sayin....
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on September 15, 2009, 04:35:01 PM
So it's okay to say Kanye is a jackass but not okay to say Crowley "acted stupidly". I wonder why that is :think: :biggrin:
Just sayin....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 15, 2009, 04:44:18 PM
because Kanye IS a jackass..............and Crowley acted accordingly....
Quote from: Elaine on September 15, 2009, 07:03:56 PM
well, if crowley didnt voice his opinion like a mature adult, then he acted stupidly.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on September 16, 2009, 06:54:27 AM
This doesn't answer the question. It doesn't matter what Crowley's opinion was. It doesn't matter that the two incidents are really different. What I'm asking is, why would Obama get a pass for having an opinion on one and not the other? Neither situation required presidential comment, however, he exercised his right as an American to free speech and gave an opinion.
I'd hate to think it's because in one situation he's defending a black man and in the other a white girl. One doesn't get a pass and the other does.
Quote from: pariann on September 15, 2009, 09:12:05 PM
Yeah...you really can't doubt televised footage...huh?
Quote from: me on September 15, 2009, 08:57:48 PM
Um, how about he was aware of the circumstances of this situation and knew exactly what it was about and what happened?
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on September 16, 2009, 06:50:51 AM
So, he knew exactly why Kanye acted the way he did? I doubt it.
He looked at the situation and gave his opinion.
Quote from: pariann on September 16, 2009, 07:04:36 AM
How about this, what Obama said was not meant for the public ears to hear. It was said off the record while doing CNBC interviews, ABC tweeted the comment without knowing that it was off the record. I'm sure that there are MANY things that the President says that are not meant for public ears. Let's take it one step further. Maybe he wasn't defending a white girl, maybe he was defending women. West humiliated two women that night, one black, and one white.
In the former, when Obama expressed his opinion, it wasn't off the record, and he didn't know the details of the actions taken.
I don't know about getting a pass, but it looks to me that he wasn't speaking without thinking this time.
Sorry Pari, but nothing the president says is off the record. That's obvious by the article that inspired this discussion.
As far as knowing the details of the situation, he knows what we know, which may or may not be the entire story. Like the rest of us he formed an opinion.
I don't disagree with his assessment re: Kanye. Apparently, neither does the right wing because they're strangely quiet over his opinion on this incident. With the Crowley incident the right wing blogs went crazy with "He's the president of the United States...blah blah blah" implying that he doesn't deserve the right to opine on matters the rest of us are.
My opinion is that none of it matters. Either he has a right to an opinion or not and I find it suspicious that the reasoning used in the Crowley incident by the right wing could be applied to this situation and it's not. Why? So he is getting a pass and again, why?
Either he can speak freely about his opinions or not.
Apparently there are things that are off the record. Otherwise, why would ABC issue an apology for tweeting it?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090915/ts_afp/entertainmentuspoliticsobamamediainternettwitter_20090915220044
Quote from: me on September 15, 2009, 03:43:09 PM
Why should he be vilified for it? He did, after all, state his feelings and they are pretty much what everyone else thinks.
I missed this the first time, so as long as he doesn't think freely and his opinion is "pretty much what everyone else thinks" that's okay. He won't be vilified?
Quote from: pariann on September 16, 2009, 07:19:02 AM
Apparently there are things that are off the record. Otherwise, why would ABC issue an apology for tweeting it?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090915/ts_afp/entertainmentuspoliticsobamamediainternettwitter_20090915220044
I'll stand corrected that perhaps he is able to have an off the record conversation, however, it's not off the record now.
I'm also standing by the thought that on or off the record doesn't matter. The venue isn't the issue, his rights are.
I'm not going to be any challenge in this discussion. Like everyone he is allowed to have his opinion. But to the public, we hold people in places of authority to a higher standard. Watch your p's and q's. Be politically correct. Don't offend your community or constituents. Don't hold any bias, be fair to all. Keep your opinions out of it, and be professional. yada yada yada. If only the public knew what he said behind his bedroom door when the lights go out. :spooked:
Hopefully Michelle's not tellin' :biggrin:
BTW, it's all good. I think I've zeroed in on some rightwing hypocrisy and I'm just having some fun with it. ;D
I'm sure that there are some gossip rags that would pay big money if she would! :wink:
Sandy, I heard the clip where Obama made his remark about Kayne...and I thought it was funny...I liked Obama asking the press to "give the president a break"...I laughed with him on that one.
But this is NO comparison to the Crowley incident.....THERE, he was at a press conference and asked directly...AND he said, "without having the facts"...then made an outrageous comment, that he SHOULD have kept to himself, at least until he DID have the facts....
See what I mean.... 'keep your opinions to yourself'. And yes I see the qualifier of until he did have the facts. Doesn't change the perception that unless it's a government issue, it seems a lot of the general public do not want to hear the human side of a politician when it comes to opinions.
Quote from: pariann on September 16, 2009, 08:35:15 AM
See what I mean.... 'keep your opinions to yourself'. And yes I see the qualifier of until he did have the facts. Doesn't change the perception that unless it's a government issue, it seems a lot of the general public do not want to hear the human side of a politician when it comes to opinions.
but it was wrong for Senator Joe Wilson to say "you lie" to the POTUS?....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 16, 2009, 08:28:17 AM
Sandy, I heard the clip where Obama made his remark about Kayne...and I thought it was funny...I liked Obama asking the press to "give the president a break"...I laughed with him on that one.
But this is NO comparison to the Crowley incident.....THERE, he was at a press conference and asked directly...AND he said, "without having the facts"...then made an outrageous comment, that he SHOULD have kept to himself, at least until he DID have the facts....
Give it a rest, bigot; you've already demonstrated a profound lack of understanding of law enforcement procedures on this subject.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 16, 2009, 08:43:12 AM
but it was wrong for Senator Joe Wilson to say "you lie" to the POTUS?....
Yes, you moron.
Quote from: Exterminator on September 16, 2009, 08:47:25 AM
Give it a rest, bigot; you've already demonstrated a profound lack of understanding of law enforcement procedures on this subject.
I'm not going to let your punkass bother me today....all I'm saying is, the POTUS spoke without the facts....and he admitted it before he spoke.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 16, 2009, 08:43:12 AM
but it was wrong for Senator Joe Wilson to say "you lie" to the POTUS?....
Is saying someone is lying an opinion, or an accusation? Did he have the facts to determine that Obama may have been lying? He should have kept his opinion to himself until he had all the facts. You can't stand up in front of, how many people? 300? And tell a lie if they all know what's intended in the plan.
Quote from: pariann on September 16, 2009, 08:59:55 AM
Is saying someone is lying an opinion, or an accusation? Did he have the facts to determine that Obama may have been lying? He should have kept his opinion to himself until he had all the facts. You can't stand up in front of, how many people? 300? And tell a lie if they all know what's intended in the plan.
I'm not defending Wilson...I'm making a point....how about the POTUS saying Crowely "Acted Stupidly" in a press conference on National TV? should he have kept his opinion to himself?...(without ANY facts?)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 16, 2009, 09:05:57 AM
I'm not defending Wilson...I'm making a point....how about the POTUS saying Crowely "Acted Stupidly" in a press conference on National TV? should he have kept his opinion to himself?...(without ANY facts?)
I'll say it once again......the general public expects higher standards of people in authority and forget that those people are actually only as human as the rest of the nation. This is a type of hypocrisy if you ask me. EVERYONE has a moment of saying something that they regret saying later. Imagine not being prepared to answer a specific question because it has absolutely nothing to do with the job you were hired to do and you find you do have an immediate opinion on what you do know so far. Are you, Henry, going to say No Comment, or are you going to voice that opinion? Being, Henry, you most likely are going to voice it, and then you may qualify it by saying that you don't know all the facts, you may go even further and say you might change your mind on your opinion once you know more. As a human being, sometimes we say things that we mean, or feel at the moment, but on reflection figure we probably shouldn't have said. I'm sorry but being a politician, public figure, or celebrity doesn't automatically give us grace when we speak from emotion.
The real difference for rightwingdings? IMO
Crowley - Obama's opinion was in favor of a black man.
West - Obama's opinion was in favor of a white girl.
I just want to know what Kanye's reaction to the president is going to be. I mean he stated that Bush hates all black people. I guess he won't be able to say that about Obama right? :biggrin:
That was before Kanye lost his mind :biggrin:
I don't think he ever really had it to begin with!