Things seem pretty slow around here, so, I'm gonna get vocal with an issue that really pierces my heart.
I believe America's rejection of God is the reason we are now seeing the moral decay in our society.
Sexual immorality, divorce, drug abuse are only a few things that come to mind that have gone way out of control, since the 1960's, when the liberal movement reared it's ugly head. Abortions became an acceptable choice. Sex, between a husband and wife, became a novelty. Drug abuse is only a misdemeanor in our court system, if that. Marriage is a throw-away commodity.
I truly feel, if this country does not, repent into putting God first, the decay will mot stop until it has totally destroyed this nation.
There, how's that.......I may seem a little cynical, but this is a real problem that seems like it may not be fixed.
Henry...reading between the lines...you seem to think that we need God/religion in order to be civilized and keep some semblance or moral behavior. Is that a fair statement?
Quote from: Gryphon on December 07, 2006, 01:34:40 PM
Henry...reading between the lines...you seem to think that we need God/religion in order to be civilized and keep some semblance or moral behavior. Is that a fair statement?
First of all G, I'm a Christian, and I whole heartedly believe, that God IS needed to maintain the blessings that, I believe that he bestowed upon us....I'n not preachin, just sharin...so, I believe it is a fair statement...as far as I'm concerned....but, can a nation be civil without God?...I'm sure it can...
Psalm 33:12
Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD
I think I have very good morals. I joke around a lot on the forum, and say some things that may appear that I don't have any, or am very loose. But the truth of the matter is that I have God in my life, and he likes a joke on occasion. I never wanted a divorce, I wanted to work on my marriage, drugs have never been an issue in my home, sexual promiscuity has been frowned upon greatly. And to top it off, I don't go to church to get my weekly morality fix. This is what my parents ingraned into me. What I have tried to pass on to my kids. I don't believe you need to have religion in your life to have good morals, you have to have proper upbringing, and if having God as part of your family is influential, that's all the better. Enough about me.
I have opinions on this, but you wouldn't like them.
Let her rip pariann!! ;D
I'm not judging anyone person, WE, as a whole are guilty....I joke around alot also, and probably appear, sometimes, Loose, as you put it...
But, I believe, the Holy Bible IS the moral compass, that being the word of God....I, too, do not believe you HAVE to go to church to have God in your life.....but, as a Country, the more we, as a nation, deny God....the farther down the proverbial toilet we go....
you won't hurt my feelings, expressing your opinions.... ;)
QuoteSexual immorality, divorce, drug abuse
Divorce is not a good thing, but sexual immorality and drug abuse...c'mon, they're all in good fun.
There's not too much that a disease ridden hooker and a bag of crack can't fix. :biggrin:
I don't think I meant you personally. People reading this. I would get that prompt to back up my opinions, which we all know, isn't always that easy to do.
I think a lot of the reason the morals of so many is lower is because it's a younger generation in control of a lot of things. They are resistant to authority and want to do things their way. Everyone wants to step outside the box, be bold and daring. Don't conform. Then we get the moral majority going, and there is a major conflict. Falls back on being an American and living in a free country. We (society) don't want people telling us what we can watch, how we can talk, where we can go, what we can buy. Because we live in a free country. Parents gave up teaching their kids what freedom really meant, consideration for others, consideration and respect for themselves. What used to be loose morals behind closed doors has spilled out onto the street. And again it falls back on living in a free country. Don't tell anyone that they shouldn't do that, because you are stepping on their rights to freedom.
Make sense? Or did I just ramble again?
Quote from: pariann on December 07, 2006, 02:24:09 PM
I don't think I meant you personally. People reading this. I would get that prompt to back up my opinions, which we all know, isn't always that easy to do.
I think a lot of the reason the morals of so many is lower is because it's a younger generation in control of a lot of things. They are resistant to authority and want to do things their way. Everyone wants to step outside the box, be bold and daring. Don't conform. Then we get the moral majority going, and there is a major conflict. Falls back on being an American and living in a free country. We (society) don't want people telling us what we can watch, how we can talk, where we can go, what we can buy. Because we live in a free country. Parents gave up teaching their kids what freedom really meant, consideration for others, consideration and respect for themselves. What used to be loose morals behind closed doors has spilled out onto the street. And again it falls back on living in a free country. Don't tell anyone that they shouldn't do that, because you are stepping on their rights to freedom.
Make sense? Or did I just ramble again?
Yes, I do follow you, but, my point is, that the Bible deals with all of these issues, especially on child raising....and that is one of the biggest break-downs in our society in the last 30 or 40 years.....especially in the last 10 or so years....I believe we became a "free" country, because of our forefathers, left a country where, they where being told, How to worship God, they came here, so they could worship God, the way the Holy Bible taught us...not how a King, wanted us to.....Now, this is where I ususaly get everyone's dander all up, but, the more we take God away from our Government, the more un-Godly our Government becomes...hence, abortions and same sex marriages....plus, hundreds of other immoral justifications that are becoming accecptable....
I'm starting to ramble now, but, I'm very passionate about this...
Quote from: IYT IYT IYT on December 07, 2006, 02:18:25 PM
Divorce is not a good thing, but sexual immorality and drug abuse...c'mon, they're all in good fun.
There's not too much that a disease ridden hooker and a bag of crack can't fix. :biggrin:
You are a kook!!!! ;D ;D
but, a muched loved Kook, you keep us from gettin too nutty or serious... on here... ;)
http://gunbarrelcityradio.com/InGodWeStillTrust.wmv (http://gunbarrelcityradio.com/InGodWeStillTrust.wmv)
This says it all, for me... :yes:
Pretty tough talk for a tiny naked chicken hawk in a Santa hat.
Not too intimidating.
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 07, 2006, 02:35:06 PM
Yes, I do follow you, but, my point is, that the Bible deals with all of these issues, especially on child raising....and that is one of the biggest break-downs in our society in the last 30 or 40 years.....especially in the last 10 or so years....I believe we became a "free" country, because of our forefathers, left a country where, they where being told, How to worship God, they came here, so they could worship God, the way the Holy Bible taught us...not how a King, wanted us to.....Now, this is where I ususaly get everyone's dander all up, but, the more we take God away from our Government, the more un-Godly our Government becomes...hence, abortions and same sex marriages....plus, hundreds of other immoral justifications that are becoming accecptable....
I'm starting to ramble now, but, I'm very passionate about this...
If the younger generation of parents would raise their kids the way they were raised, with or without the bible, you would see a rise in morals, consideration and respect in people. And if the moral majority would quit trying to rule the media, you might find less resistance to censorship. These are just my opinions though.
I think we began to see moral decay when we stopped prayer in schools. That few minutes to repeat the pledge of allegiance and the pledge to the christian flag along with the lords prayer bonded classmates together. How can you hate someone you just prayed with?
Communities were more secluded, news was provided by the republican or democratic newspaper, depending on the party of your preference, and the 6 oclock news told us all about the world.
We believed in government, we believed that God fearing men led our country against the enemy. That all slid from our hands because of the murder of John Kennedy, the slaying of Martin Luther King, the never was called a war in Viet Nam, and maybe the final blow to the fragility of government was Watergate.
We have elected people with questionable values and given them keys to the house. We have agreed with their insanity, we have not argued with ridiculous laws and decisions and we have not stopped them and they have bankrupted us.
When we lived for the simple things, prayer in the morning, prayer before a meal, during sickness, at birth, at death, and as we ended our day, we had a communion with God. Now we are too busy, or too shy, or too worried about who we will offend, and we have forgotten to say thanks and ask blessings.
Love you all--me
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 07, 2006, 03:45:43 PM
http://gunbarrelcityradio.com/InGodWeStillTrust.wmv (http://gunbarrelcityradio.com/InGodWeStillTrust.wmv)
This says it all, for me... :yes:
Don't let the hat fool ya.. ;)...My pecker, I mean...my beek, can do some pretty serious damage, not to mention my finger nails... ;)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 07, 2006, 04:21:39 PM
Don't let the hat fool ya.. ;)...My pecker, I mean...my beek, can do some pretty serious damage, not to mention my finger nails... ;)
(http://bookofmatches.com/presentation/images/smiley-19.gif)
Quote from: pariann on December 07, 2006, 04:18:06 PM
If the younger generation of parents would raise their kids the way they were raised, with or without the bible, you would see a rise in morals, consideration and respect in people. And if the moral majority would quit trying to rule the media, you might find less resistance to censorship. These are just my opinions though.
But, you see, the vast majority of our forefathers WERE Bible, believin, God-fearin people...I think, for many families, each generation, becomes less, and less, dependant upon the word of God....imo
Quote from: damfast on December 07, 2006, 04:18:41 PM
I think we began to see moral decay when we stopped prayer in schools. That few minutes to repeat the pledge of allegiance and the pledge to the christian flag along with the lords prayer bonded classmates together. How can you hate someone you just prayed with?
Communities were more secluded, news was provided by the republican or democratic newspaper, depending on the party of your preference, and the 6 oclock news told us all about the world.
We believed in government, we believed that God fearing men led our country against the enemy. That all slid from our hands because of the murder of John Kennedy, the slaying of Martin Luther King, the never was called a war in Viet Nam, and maybe the final blow to the fragility of government was Watergate.
We have elected people with questionable values and given them keys to the house. We have agreed with their insanity, we have not argued with ridiculous laws and decisions and we have not stopped them and they have bankrupted us.
When we lived for the simple things, prayer in the morning, prayer before a meal, during sickness, at birth, at death, and as we ended our day, we had a communion with God. Now we are too busy, or too shy, or too worried about who we will offend, and we have forgotten to say thanks and ask blessings.
Love you all--me
Well said, DF! :yes:
I thought she said it well too. I just didn't want to wrap my head around political views. LOL
The more I think about it, Damfast, really, really nails it on the head and shines light on my whole point... :)
No one has EVER stopped prayer in school. There is no law that prevents little Timmy from praying anytime he wants.
What has been frowned upon, and I agree...is the school-led denominational prayer. If you wouldnt want your childs pubilc school teacher leading him in a prayer that is not of your religion, then you can understand why this is a poor idea.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 07, 2006, 04:26:30 PM
But, you see, the vast majority of our forefathers WERE Bible, believin, God-fearin people...I think, for many families, each generation, becomes less, and less, dependant upon the word of God....imo
I dont mean this with disrespect...but do you suppose its because our increased knowledge of science, etc. has rendered much of whats in the Bible into the realm of fairy tales?
Quote from: Gryphon on December 07, 2006, 04:38:09 PM
I dont mean this with disrespect...but do you suppose its because our increased knowledge of science, etc. has rendered much of whats in the Bible into the realm of fairy tales?
Prove that statement G....I can show you where much of what is in the Bible CAN be supported by scientist...
Let me rephrase, many parts of the Bible, that some scientist refute as truths, can be supported by scientific explanations...and supported by scientist.
My thoughts on this go deeper than I have time to delve into now...and I will do my best to answer more indepth later...but as a starter
Two of each kind of animal on a boat.
People turning into pillars of salt
Surviving within a fish for days.
The idea that POOF we all materialized, as is, from nothing. (mind you, I find it plausible that God may have used some variation of evolution to create us)
The idea that the earth is only a few thousand years old.
etc.
wow, how did i miss this opportunity?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 07, 2006, 01:05:51 PM
Things seem pretty slow around here, so, I'm gonna get vocal with an issue that really pierces my heart.
I believe America's rejection of God is the reason we are now seeing the moral decay in our society.
then how do you explain the corruption being shown daily by those on the religious right?
Quote
Sexual immorality, divorce, drug abuse are only a few things that come to mind that have gone way out of control, since the 1960's, when the liberal movement reared it's ugly head.
ahh yes. the chants of peace and love. protesting the war. can't have any of that.
QuoteAbortions became an acceptable choice.
i would argue that abortion was more acceptable before. it was just more dangerous, and less talked about.
QuoteSex, between a husband and wife, became a novelty.
yeah, marriage does that.
QuoteDrug abuse is only a misdemeanor in our court system, if that.
hmmm. i don't have the time to research all of them, but i believe that certain substances are felonys just to have in your system. and manufacture/cultivation and distribution are felonys for even just pot.
QuoteMarriage is a throw-away commodity.
it's a commodity??? how much could i get for one?
QuoteI truly feel, if this country does not, repent into putting God first, the decay will mot stop until it has totally destroyed this nation.
well. you guys had eight years of that, and see what happened? you are complaining more than ever!
Bout time poopiehead!! ;D
First of all...
Just because, you believe in Jesus, and love America, does not make you the "religious right"....and just because some politcally motivated politicians use "Christian Values" as a prop for their agenda, change the fact that many true Christians, happen to truely believe that, God needs to be first and formost, or there will be consequences to pay..
secondlly, the 60's did suck, I was around during that time, everybody was a little goofed up, not just the hippies, but the government was too....but, that does not change the fact, that taking lsd or heroin and havin babies was an okay thing.....the whole "morals" thingy was pretty much trashed....
and killing a human fetus, was and is wrong, no mater how you paint the picture.....especially back in the 60's when it was done, simply because it was a choice...instead of being accountable for thier actions, it was an easy way out of their responsibilities, whack the baby, and move on.....
I have been married 23 years, and sex is STILL what it was 23 years ago.....5 pregancies, and 5 children later....life is sweet...
research all you want about felonies and drugs....I know many people who has been busted for drugs and the got a smack on the back of the hand....I have a friend who was deep into selling drugs, and he spent 90 days and was released...so, I don't think we have gotten too tough on this yet...
and my point is on marriage is that people will jump right into a marriage with NO since of commentment, when things get tough, get a lawyer and call it quits....the vows taken before God, Should mean something.....
and you like to say the "you guys had eight years.....I say, big f'n deal.....those guys are a bunch of freakin politicians, it is up to us americans who love Jesus, to stand up for what he taught us, and live on those principals....(I'm standing on my computer desk right now, gettin all jiggy) :clap:
Seriously though, I feel as a Christian, there are many problems that could be aliveated, if Christians started acting like we ar supposed too, and I have been just as guilty as the next guy....but, I'm trying..... ;)
Quotethat taking lsd or heroin and havin babies was an okay thing.....the whole "morals" thingy was pretty much trashed....
Heroin is one thing, worshipping false idols and such, but LSD is very revealing, a catharsis of sorts. LSD facilitates evolution, both spiritual and mental, by putting the user in a state of vulnerable confusion. Only then can we see God, even if it is a "hallucination." Do you think magic mushrooms growing on dung was a mistake or a gift? ;D
Quote from: IYT IYT IYT on December 11, 2006, 09:28:44 AM
Heroin is one thing, worshipping false idols and such, but LSD is very revealing, a catharsis of sorts. LSD facilitates evolution, both spiritual and mental, by putting the user in a state of vulnerable confusion. Only then can we see God, even if it is a "hallucination." Do you think magic mushrooms growing on dung was a mistake or a gift? ;D
all I can say is...... :biggrin: ;D :biggrin:...you have a way with words.... :biggrin:
Last report I read about US divorce rates, I believe Southern Baptists were leading the way with other religions following. We heathen atheists had one of the lowest rates.
The number of atheists in prison was real low as well, with those claiming to be Christian filling the largest number of cells.
I could find those surveys if I had too, I just don't want to take the time right now.
I was raised almost entirely out of the god loop and so were our children. I made my choice based on reason and facts as did they. Science and truth will win out every time over superstition and myth.
Quote from: Mr442 on December 18, 2006, 10:59:47 AM
Last report I read about US divorce rates, I believe Southern Baptists were leading the way with other religions following. We heathen atheists had one of the lowest rates.
The number of atheists in prison was real low as well, with those claiming to be Christian filling the largest number of cells.
I could find those surveys if I had too, I just don't want to take the time right now.
I was raised almost entirely out of the god loop and so were our children. I made my choice based on reason and facts as did they. Science and truth will win out every time over superstition and myth.
Mr.442...with no disrespect towards you, I think it is sad that you consider Christianity a myth or superstition...My father, has always been a science and truth sort of person, with no "real" belief in Jesus....but as he is approaching his final years of life, he is starting to follow his heart and is re-thinking some of the "logical" ways of life...
I know many, many really fantastic people, with great moral values, who chose not to believe in God...and l also know many Christians who are and embarassment to me.
I still believe that our Moral Compass since the beginning of time, has derived from the Word of God...
I'm not going to preach and say that you are going to burn in hell or that you are a heathen (that is not my job to do)....I do simple ask that you do not shut out the possibliity that God is real, because you do not have scientific facts to support it or that some Christians are obnoxious hypocrits...
Id be interested in seeing some stats to back up what 442 said though....
Mr. 442 posted:
"Science and truth will win out every time over superstition and myth."
I wish that were true. Would have saved a lot of people.
Like those persecuted by the Spanish Inquisition, the puritans of Massachusetts, etc.
Quote from: Gryphon on December 18, 2006, 11:47:19 AM
Id be interested in seeing some stats to back up what 442 said though....
I'll see what I can dig up after lunch. The divorce survey was done by a religious college out east. I'm sure they were not happy witht he results, but at least they did publish them.
Man I hate these 'work days" right before the holidays. Shoulda saved some vacation :rolleyes:
This interested me, so I decided to research it a bit.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm)
http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/religion/bible_slavery.html (http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/religion/bible_slavery.html)
QuoteThe Barna Research Group just concluded an extensive survey of the correlation between religion and divorce in American. They found that 24 percent of all Americans have been divorced. The divorce rate of Baptists is 29 percent. Interestingly, the divorce rate among those calling themselves atheists or agnostics is 21 percent. After Nevada, home of the quickie Las Vegas divorce, the four Southern Baptist stronghold states Tennessee, Alabama, Oklahoma (from which a Family Amendment drafter hails) and Arkansas lead the nation in divorce, and round out the top five. The Southeast, the Bible Belt, as a region, has the highest divorce rate. All southern states except South Carolina exceed the national divorce average.
I see we are on the same trial, more or less.
From here. http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism8.htm
"Nationally, 29% of all Baptist adults have been divorced," notes Barna. Slightly higher,at 34% are those in "non-denominational," independent Protestant churches.
"Among non-Christians groups the levels vary ... Jews, for instance, are among those most likely to divorce (30%) have, while atheists and agnostics are below the norm (21%). Mormons, renowned for their emphasis upon strong families, are no different from the national average (24%)."
In addition, the Baby Boomers -- that generation often criticized for sexual indulgence, moral relativism and other pernicious behaviors -- has a lower rate of divorce (34%) than the preceding generation (described as "Builders"), who hover at 37%."
And from here: http://www.atheists.org/comingout/othercloset.html
"Always couple these statements with the fact that, while atheists make up 8-10% of the population at large, we only make up 1% of the population in prison. "
But go checkout this site for more: http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
fascinating stuff...
What say the folks who harp that religion is necessary for morality?
Just another of those happy little thoughts that are "comfort food of the mind" for religions that think they own morality.
Happy thoughts, but absolutely false.
You can teach morality without the fear that pervades religious thought.
Here is my take on this...without scientific explanation...
once upon a time, the Holy Bible was viewed by ALL as the Word of God...Everybody (for the most part) revered the Lord....as generations passed on and on...that dependency of the Word of God became less and less, but the Moral Values it placed upon their parents and their parents parents and THEIR Parents Parents......though God may not be a revered part of some peoples lives, His word set the standards that we live with to this day...
Had the Holy Bible never existed, I wonder what the standards would be today? :confused:
well somehow humanity managed to exist without it for thousands of years...
and at no time in history. I repeat, NO TIME, has the Bible been accepted by all, or even close to all, as the word of God.
Quote from: Gryphon on December 18, 2006, 03:22:58 PM
well somehow humanity managed to exist without it for thousands of years...
and at no time in history. I repeat, NO TIME, has the Bible been accepted by all, or even close to all, as the word of God.
in your opinion... ;)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 18, 2006, 03:29:11 PM
in your opinion... ;)
Dude, its a complete fact. How old is the Muslim religion? How old is Hinduism? Your "once upon a time..." tells your statement for what it is...a fairy tale.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 18, 2006, 03:17:40 PM
Had the Holy Bible never existed, I wonder what the standards would be today? :confused:
Hopefully, it wouldn't be derived from the Code of Hammurabi, c. 1780 BC. Man, that was a tough set of laws! The death penalty for just about everything!
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/hamcode.html (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/hamcode.html)
Quote from: Gryphon on December 18, 2006, 03:32:12 PM
Dude, its a complete fact. How old is the Muslim religion? How old is Hinduism? Your "once upon a time..." tells your statement for what it is...a fairy tale.
Let me see how I want to put this........................................hmmmm
okay, Got it!!!
:rolleyes:
?? somethings missin Henry. (my page says "done but with errors")
Quote from: Gryphon on December 18, 2006, 04:02:15 PM
?? somethings missin Henry. (my page says "done but with errors")
Not sure what happend?? :confused:
G, I'm going to strong agree to disagree with you on this....I will never change your mind and you will not change mine...
I'm right and your wrong... ;) ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 18, 2006, 04:05:00 PM
Not sure what happend?? :confused:
G, I'm going to strong agree to disagree with you on this....I will never change your mind and you will not change mine...
I'm right and your wrong... ;) ;D
Henry, the fact is that Christianity has NEVER been practiced by the majority of mankind. So your statement
Quoteonce upon a time, the Holy Bible was viewed by ALL as the Word of God...Everybody (for the most part) revered the Lord....
is either completely naive or completely a lie.
Quote from: Gryphon on December 18, 2006, 04:13:31 PM
Henry, the fact is that Christianity has NEVER been practiced by the majority of mankind. So your statement is either completely naive or completely a lie.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.....the God of Abraham....God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.....God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.
I never said that Christianity has been practiced by the majority of mankind.....
So, I'm naive if I believe in the Bible...is that what your pompus, arrogant ass is saying, or am I misunderstanding you
you're misunderstanding me...
Id never say such a thing...
I believe it was I who misunderstood you...
although when God created those first people, there was no Bible. How far back does the first Bible date?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on December 18, 2006, 04:32:54 PM
I never said that Christianity has been practiced by the majority of mankind.....
but you did...
Quoteonce upon a time, the Holy Bible was viewed by ALL as the Word of God...Everybody (for the most part) revered the Lord
Quote from: Gryphon on December 18, 2006, 04:38:30 PM
but you did...
FAIR ENOUGH..I should have stated the Pentateuch or the Tora, which is the first 5 books of the Bible...which was Isreals first inspired body of Scripture....the exact date of creation is unknown...it is estimated to be thousands not millions of years old.
Genisis 11...spans over 300 years to the death of Joesph which is believe to be 1804 bc...then another 300 years or so to the birth of Moses which is around 1525bc....
well...your timeline is not, as far as I know, supported by any reputable scientific knowledge.
scratch that post...
I misunderstood you again...
;D
Quote from: Gryphon on December 18, 2006, 04:56:40 PM
well...your timeline is not, as far as I know, supported by any reputable scientific knowledge.
your words....
Dude, its a complete fact....is what started this....
Scientific knowledge, I'm not sure, but some pretty smart cookies has done years of study and research to arrive with some numbers that are Biblical and Historical based....
those same smart cookies, (if we are talking about the creation of the world) that you mention, I imagine, began their years of study with a preset agenda.
Science has arrived where it has with no preset except "how, why, when, what"
gotta run...I'll touch on this later...have a good one.. :yes: