Vents: Random Acts of Venting!

[Palehorse]

I shutter to think what this country would be like now, if it had not been for the Billions of $$ that Christians give to the needy, homeless, orphans and the down and out.  Just because many, of us Americans, who call ourselves Christians, do not think it is the Government's place to decide WHO get's help and WHO doesn't, does not mean we are turning our backs on anybody.....

Do you have any real idea how much money, missinonaries, and good work that is done in this country due to people who call themselves Christians?

I got news for you...THAT is the way it is SUPPOSED to work.....NOT via Government, but by neighbor helping neighbor....communty churches at one time did exactly that......

Oh, so now you agree that religion and government should be separate and kept that way? Strange how now it is religions place to be the lifeline to the citizens of this country and not the country itself as outlined within the constitution! 

Thats just using religion as a lever with which to obtain your desired outcome from the government, plain and simple!

[Palehorse]

Oh, so now you agree that religion and government should be separate and kept that way? Strange how now it is religions place to be the lifeline to the citizens of this country and not the country itself as outlined within the constitution! 

Thats just using religion as a lever with which to obtain your desired outcome from the government, plain and simple!

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/constitution.htm

[The Troll]

I shutter to think what this country would be like now, if it had not been for the Billions of $$ that Christians give to the needy, homeless, orphans and the down and out.  Just because many, of us Americans, who call ourselves Christians, do not think it is the Government's place to decide WHO get's help and WHO doesn't, does not mean we are turning our backs on anybody.....

Do you have any real idea how much money, missinonaries, and good work that is done in this country due to people who call themselves Christians?

I got news for you...THAT is the way it is SUPPOSED to work.....NOT via Government, but by neighbor helping neighbor....communty churches at one time did exactly that......

  What a sack of bullshit.  Nobody does nothing for nothing.  The Christians do all of the "Good Work" to gain power.  More power to control what they want, for their benefit, nothing else.  If you don't belong or join that church they will tell you to get lost.  They are trying to build their membership for more control.

[Palehorse]

  What a sack of bullshit.  Nobody does nothing for nothing.  The Christians do all of the "Good Work" to gain power.  More power to control what they want, for their benefit, nothing else.  If you don't belong or join that church they will tell you to get lost.  They are trying to build their membership for more control.

Amen brother Troll! Preach it on!

[Henry Hawk]

Amen brother Troll! Preach it on!

I expect that from Troll, but YOU really think that a Christian such as myself does things just to gain power...THAT is what I am talking about....not the Church of God or Oral Roberts....the average hard working American, who believes in the teachings of the Bible...who give to the least of these, because that is the way Christ WANTS us to be....there is not one ounce of bullshit in my statement.....

[Palehorse]

I expect that from Troll, but YOU really think that a Christian such as myself does things just to gain power...THAT is what I am talking about....not the Church of God or Oral Roberts....the average hard working American, who believes in the teachings of the Bible...who give to the least of these, because that is the way Christ WANTS us to be....there is not one ounce of bullshit in my statement.....

I don't see where either one of us directed the statement at you, but rather those you just mentioned in particular.

[Henry Hawk]

I don't see where either one of us directed the statement at you, but rather those you just mentioned in particular.

when I talk about Christians....I'm talking about "Christians" the people NOT the CHURCH......there are millions of great people who do wonderful things for people and give generously, in the name of Christ.....and YOU guys say it is a sake of bullshit and laugh about it.

[Palehorse]

when I talk about Christians....I'm talking about "Christians" the people NOT the CHURCH......there are millions of great people who do wonderful things for people and give generously, in the name of Christ.....and YOU guys say it is a sake of bullshit and laugh about it.

Televangelist says he cheated on wife
A televangelist admitted in front of a television audience that he cheated on his wife, an announcement he made to thwart people he said were trying to extort millions of dollars from him.

The Rev. Marcus Lamb made the confession Tuesday night on his show "Celebration" with his wife Joni Lamb by his side.

The couple also displayed a special message about the incident on the website of Daystar Television Network, the couple's television network.

"At the top of the program, the Lambs shared a compelling, transparent account of a personal challenge in their marriage that occurred several years ago, involving an inappropriate relationship between Marcus and another woman," the message said.

The couple explained that there were three people who said they would expose the affair if the couple's ministry did not pay them $7.5 million.

Daystar Television Network is based in Texas and airs some of the most popular evangelists in the nation, including T.D. Jakes, Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland and Joyce Meyer.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/01/televangelist-says-he-cheated-on-wife-2/?hpt=T2

I do not seek to deny others their faith. But I do seek to enlighten them surrounding the fact that the leadership of their faith by and large are nothing more than power hungry and materialistic individuals using their supposed faith as a means to amass personal wealth and power.

IS this guy not a HYOCRITE? 

[Anne]

I think the problem is that you never say some or even most Christians, you just say Christians, including everyone who considers themself one, even ones who are not church going pamphlet toting ones, and it is offensive. I have never tried to convert anyone to christianity in general or to join my church other than to tell a friend they would be welcome. I said on here before, I am a christian and I attend church regularly, work at the non food panty every month and donate to it, have made hospice gowns for St. John's and a few other things. Volunteer work and going to church at least for me is done with nothing expected in return. I do those things because it is the right thing to do, imo. I was taught you can't buy you way into heaven with good works.

As far as doing something for nothing, that is not true, at least not for people I know. Have you not ever given a panhandler some change or a dollar or two or donated a little cash to a charity and not reported it on your income tax, volunteered at a fund raiser for a friend? If you did, what did you expect in return?

[Henry Hawk]

I think the problem is that you never say some or even most Christians, you just say Christians, including everyone who considers themself one, even ones who are not church going pamphlet toting ones, and it is offensive. I have never tried to convert anyone to christianity in general or to join my church other than to tell a friend they would be welcome. I said on here before, I am a christian and I attend church regularly, work at the non food panty every month and donate to it, have made hospice gowns for St. John's and a few other things. Volunteer work and going to church at least for me is done with nothing expected in return. I do those things because it is the right thing to do, imo. I was taught you can't buy you way into heaven with good works.

As far as doing something for nothing, that is not true, at least not for people I know. Have you not ever given a panhandler some change or a dollar or two or donated a little cash to a charity and not reported it on your income tax, volunteered at a fund raiser for a friend? If you did, what did you expect in return?

Thanks Anne, you said it very elequently.  THAT is exactly my point, and even though I know most of the time things are said in jest, but when you disgrace Jesus, with all of the Jezbus crap, it IS offensive.  It has come to the point, I just consider the source and move on.

[Y]

I shutter to think what this country would be like now, if it had not been for the Billions of $$ that Christians give to the needy, homeless, orphans and the down and out...

...Do you have any real idea how much money, missinonaries, and good work that is done in this country due to people who call themselves Christians?...

I got news for you...THAT is the way it is SUPPOSED to work.....NOT via Government, but by neighbor helping neighbor....communty churches at one time did exactly that......

1) I want to see the evidence that proves your claims concerning x-tian charity.

2) Why is that "the way it is supposed to work.....not via Government, but by neighbor helping neighbor"?  How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[Y]

...I do those things because it is the right thing to do, imo. I was taught you can't buy you way into heaven with good works...

Anne, here is an interesting read (excerpt) for you on faith and works:

http://www.wordwiz72.com/paul.html

Paul vs. Jesus

Faith/Works
Paul (originally as Saul of Tarsus) was an admitted persecutor of Christians who might have found a more effective way to undermine the followers of Jesus. Perhaps he infiltrated their ranks and taught a doctrine that opposed teachings attributed to Jesus on several fronts, replacing Jesus' alleged teaching of universal, compassionate, selfless action with a selfish teaching of desire to gain a "free gift" of salvation based only on faith and completely devoid of any behavioral requirement or obedience to law, and distracting us from the selfless teachings attributed to Jesus. (It must be noted that Jesus never wrote anything, and his reported teachings are based on accounts whose authorship cannot be verified with certainty, but we can still cite the body of teachings attributed to Jesus as the Jesus doctrine since that is what has been handed down to us as being his teachings.)

Despite the widespread, uncritical adulation of Paul by those who listen to others instead of thinking for themselves, independent-minded analysts of Jesus' teachings have often found great cause to find fault with Paul.  One of the most famous critcisms comes from Thomas Jefferson, who wrote in a letter to James Smith, that "Paul was ... the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus." (Works, 1829 edition, vol. 4, p. 327.) George Bernard Shaw, the English playwright, is widely quoted as having said that: "...it would have been a better world if Paul had never been born."

Jesus reportedly teaches that BEHAVIORAL requirements (works/deeds), rooted in an internal change of spiritual growth within the person (not external or apart from the person, though the gift of teaching and techniques to achieve this personal change are a gift of grace not earned or deserved by us, but requiring ACTIONS [deeds] to implement), are integral to salvation. While perhaps it is not possible for us to "earn" the "free gift" that Jesus reportedly provides -- a teaching of the universal compassionate love by which the evil within us CAN be transformed into a more holy kindness of love -- the Jesus account clearly includes a behavioral component to his requirements for "salvation." While he does not say that this satisfies any "debt," he still requires it; perhaps he is demanding merely a small partial "payment" as a gesture of "good faith." (In fact, James suggests this by his comments in James 2:26, that we demonstrate our faith -- if it is genuine -- BY our works or deeds.)

Some will say that puny mortals can never perform enough good behavior to "earn" or "merit" salvation based on the value of their deeds -- that the attempts at human righteousness is as "filthy rags."

Aside from the fact that this simply contradicts Jesus, the point is not whether or not our puny mortal attempts at righteousness have sufficient intrinsic value. Jesus never says that compassionate deeds "earn" salvation, or that any of us could ever "merit" the very gift of our existence. He merely sets that as the standard for compliance. Just as a child may offer its parents or grandparents an awkwardly-drawn piece of art, which likely holds little real artistic merit (perhaps in terms of art critics it might be as "filthy rags"), still the parents sincerely and genuinely cherish such efforts. It may not "merit" winning an art contest and may be able to "earn" very little, but loving parents find it good enough to represent the qualities THEY deem of real and lasting value. The point is that Paul sets the standard for salvation as faith or belief in accepting Jesus (see below) while Jesus explicitly rejects this standard (see Matt 7:21-27) and sets the standard at universal compassionate love expressed in actions, as noted in greater detail in the next few paragraphs...

[me]

1) I want to see the evidence that proves your claims concerning x-tian charity.

2) Why is that "the way it is supposed to work.....not via Government, but by neighbor helping neighbor"?  How did you arrive at that conclusion?

How did you arrive at the conclusion that it should be the governments job to help?

[Henry Hawk]

1) I want to see the evidence that proves your claims concerning x-tian charity.

2) Why is that "the way it is supposed to work.....not via Government, but by neighbor helping neighbor"?  How did you arrive at that conclusion?

1) that is like providing evidence of how many stars there are in the entire universe.   As a Christian, I have gave, and never once reported it to anyone so they can put it in a book somewhere to keep track of.  Most of the time, I (and I speak for other Christians) give, anonymously.  But there are millions and millions of Christians who do this.  Can I prove it to you? Do I have emperical evidence? No, but if all Christians would STOP, it would cripple this country.

2). Me, handled this one quite well for me.  I can show you with passages of the Bible to support the neighbor vs. neighbor thing, but I would love for you to show me where in our forefathers thought it would be just peachy, keen to take money from hard working people and give it away to THOSE who they think might need it a little more.

[Exterminator]

As a Christian, I have gave, and never once reported it to anyone so they can put it in a book somewhere to keep track of.

How convenient but there's more than a little irony to your not keeping track of any such donations in order to be able to deduct them from the tax burden that you fine so onerous.