Vents: Random Acts of Venting!

[pariann]

It's no woinder there are so many Americans unemployed.  With even customer service calls being outsourced.

[Palehorse]

Outsourced because it costs them 16/hr to employ Americans, and 2/hr for Hadji to do it.

[pariann]

I'd do it for $2 an hour......er....I mean...last week I would have. LOL

[Palehorse]

You are in the minority then. . . 

[Palehorse]

Is it just me or has this country started turning inward and consuming itself?

More an more we see jobs leaving the country for distant lands, and increasingly the main driver behind these moves are rooted within the compensation required to crew the operations.

It started a while back with companies like Zenith moving assembly operations for televisions to Mexico, to increase profitability and reduce overhead, and has snowballed since then. NAFTA helped things along for sure, but it was happening anyway. It just accelerated the timeline.

Now we bitch and moan because foreign people are doing the jobs we need, but if they were to consider returning are Americans going to satisfy themselves working for minimum wages, because that's what it will require in order to justify these types of moves financially. I think not. . .

I think another portion of this is the fact that foreign countries are starting to catch up technologically. Because they have not been through some of the peaks and valleys surrounding the development of new technologies, they are more accepting of them. They don't have "old ways" to overcome. In many cases this new technology is replacing processes that are "stone-age in comparison, but a way of life for these people until the technology emerged within their country. The wages they are being paid to work with the technologies are a godsend to them, but miniscule in comparison to the rates that Americans are used to. And what would the effect be of just taking this income away from them? I venture to say greatly magnified in comparison to the social and financial impact to an American city losing a GM, etc.

Why? Because we have a more advanced social support system in place to help carry them through. (At least in comparison. It doesn't always work the way it is supposed to though).

America is in a transitional period surrounding our skill-sets and what the average worker is expected to do. The wage scale / expectations surrounding compensation are out of kilter and it may require a nationwide economical catastrophe to correct.

If we wait long enough, it will happen. . . And it seems that in the meantime we are determined to criticize anything and everything American, including business entities, for acting within a fiscally responsible manner.

[pariann]

All I can say is the highest payrate I've ever worked for, that I can remember, is $7.25 an hour. And I was perfectly happy to be making it. I would be perfectly happy making that again, if it's all I could find.   My average payrate has been about 4.50 an hour.   Then PRAYING I could make more in tips. There have been days I've only worked for $2.13 an hour.

[Mr442]

You make some good points PH, but I still have to ask, how much profit is needed to sustain some companies?  We had a nice little lumber yard in our town a few years ago.  It was one of a small chain of locally owned yards, and was profitable.  When the old guy running it retired, they did not replace him, they closed the store!  The reasoning was, "It's making money, just not as much as we would like."  WTF!!!  I understand a need to make a profit, but if you can pay all the bills and have money left, how much more do you need?  That little lumber yard served a large area and had many customers.  Now we are forced to drive a long way and spend money with the big name yards.

GM, Zenith, et al, were turning a profit, but how much did they actually need to remain a viable business?  Could they have stayed in country, or was it sheer greed that caused them to run to foreign soil?

I know GM has had labor issues forever, but those were mainly based on greed from both sides.  Honda and Toyota come in with fair wages and benefits and do quite well.  Not picking on the auto industry, just an example.  The company I work for has some foreign interests, but those were acquisitions to expand into those areas, not to move jobs away.  They may not pay top money, but they are close, and take decent care of the employees.  

To me it's a tortoise and the hare deal.  If you treat folks decent and pay a fair wage, (tortoise) you should make a fair profit and have longevity.  If you try to get blood out of the turnip and cut everything to the bone to maximize profit, (hare) you will run yourself into the ground.

I hate to think what the future holds for our children and their children in the job market, with these cut throat companies leading the way.

[Palehorse]

You make some good points PH, but I still have to ask, how much profit is needed to sustain some companies?  We had a nice little lumber yard in our town a few years ago.  It was one of a small chain of locally owned yards, and was profitable.  When the old guy running it retired, they did not replace him, they closed the store!  The reasoning was, "It's making money, just not as much as we would like."  WTF!!!  I understand a need to make a profit, but if you can pay all the bills and have money left, how much more do you need?  That little lumber yard served a large area and had many customers.  Now we are forced to drive a long way and spend money with the big name yards.

GM, Zenith, et al, were turning a profit, but how much did they actually need to remain a viable business?  Could they have stayed in country, or was it sheer greed that caused them to run to foreign soil?

I know GM has had labor issues forever, but those were mainly based on greed from both sides.  Honda and Toyota come in with fair wages and benefits and do quite well.  Not picking on the auto industry, just an example.  The company I work for has some foreign interests, but those were acquisitions to expand into those areas, not to move jobs away.  They may not pay top money, but they are close, and take decent care of the employees.  

To me it's a tortoise and the hare deal.  If you treat folks decent and pay a fair wage, (tortoise) you should make a fair profit and have longevity.  If you try to get blood out of the turnip and cut everything to the bone to maximize profit, (hare) you will run yourself into the ground.

I hate to think what the future holds for our children and their children in the job market, with these cut throat companies leading the way.

What you say is absolutely the truth surrounding a privately held entity, but the reality is as publicly traded corporations have swallowed up the smaller private entities, (They can make more for cheaper via volume and the incorporation of new technologies = lower price to consumer or more ROI for investors), profit demand increases because shareholders expect return on their investment. The wide array of investment opportunity has created a cutthroat situation for companies competing for investment capital; and return on investment is the gauge for the source of that funding.

Eventually as we have seen, it drives everyone to incorporate cost cutting measures in order to maximize profit levels, improving ROI, which in turn attracts investors. (Food chain). It isn't pretty, it isn't fair to the working class, (you and I), but it is the reality of manufacturing today. And the bottom line is the Average American has priced themselves right out of the market with unreasonable wage expectations.

That's just a part of it, by no means is it the whole ball of wax. Certainly things like the economy, raw materials pricing, oil, taxation; all drive the bottom line surrounding profit levels.

The thing that scares the jeebus out of me is what happens when the investment faucet runs dry? What happens when the capital leaves the US and goes to foreign entities? ? ? As our culture becomes more and more reliant upon the performance of big corporations, what happens when the same situation comes up in other countries and the stocks tank? What will those who rely upon the stock performance (investors and corporate Huns, as well as the corporation itself) do when they are left with nothing?

They feel our pain is what. But then, what happens to us????

[Mr442]

Yeah, don't get me started on that stock market crap.  That is just a case of the tail wagging the dog.  As long as those investors make money, the rest of the company can go down the tubes.  What happened to buying stock in a good company and letting it grow with the comapny?  Greedy bastiges!!

[Palehorse]

I've watched what we've been talking about, over the last 8 years turn a company from a trusted and caring leadership style into a shark tank. 

[Dexter Morgan]

Is it just me or has this country started turning inward and consuming itself?

More an more we see jobs leaving the country for distant lands, and increasingly the main driver behind these moves are rooted within the compensation required to crew the operations.

It started a while back with companies like Zenith moving assembly operations for televisions to Mexico, to increase profitability and reduce overhead, and has snowballed since then. NAFTA helped things along for sure, but it was happening anyway. It just accelerated the timeline.

Now we bitch and moan because foreign people are doing the jobs we need, but if they were to consider returning are Americans going to satisfy themselves working for minimum wages, because that's what it will require in order to justify these types of moves financially. I think not. . .

I think another portion of this is the fact that foreign countries are starting to catch up technologically. Because they have not been through some of the peaks and valleys surrounding the development of new technologies, they are more accepting of them. They don't have "old ways" to overcome. In many cases this new technology is replacing processes that are "stone-age in comparison, but a way of life for these people until the technology emerged within their country. The wages they are being paid to work with the technologies are a godsend to them, but miniscule in comparison to the rates that Americans are used to. And what would the effect be of just taking this income away from them? I venture to say greatly magnified in comparison to the social and financial impact to an American city losing a GM, etc.

Why? Because we have a more advanced social support system in place to help carry them through. (At least in comparison. It doesn't always work the way it is supposed to though).

America is in a transitional period surrounding our skill-sets and what the average worker is expected to do. The wage scale / expectations surrounding compensation are out of kilter and it may require a nationwide economical catastrophe to correct.

If we wait long enough, it will happen. . . And it seems that in the meantime we are determined to criticize anything and everything American, including business entities, for acting within a fiscally responsible manner.

Simply put PH, the world is on a fast track to hell in a hand basket LOL!!! 

[Dexter Morgan]

All I can say is the highest payrate I've ever worked for, that I can remember, is $7.25 an hour. And I was perfectly happy to be making it. I would be perfectly happy making that again, if it's all I could find.   My average payrate has been about 4.50 an hour.   Then PRAYING I could make more in tips. There have been days I've only worked for $2.13 an hour.

Parriann, I hate to say this but, maybe you should consider doing fast food. Hell, I make $7.85 an hour. We even have the option of 401K.In some ways it's not all that bad really. I pick my hours, when I want time off, I usually get it. I only work about 15 hours a week. I could probably get more if I wanted, but this is what I choose. Just something to pass the time more than anything.  People look down on us fast food workers, but without us some of them would surely starve to death. Too lazy or just cooking challenged LOL!!!! 

[pariann]

I'm working at the waffle house now.  I'll get minimum waitressing wage, plus tips...it should work out to at least 10+ an hour, but there are no guarantee's.  I'm taking the shift few people want.   

[Dexter Morgan]

I'm working at the waffle house now.  I'll get minimum waitressing wage, plus tips...it should work out to at least 10+ an hour, but there are no guarantee's.  I'm taking the shift few people want.   

Congratulations. What is your shift? Just smile a lot, that gets more tips than anything.  I'm not a waitress, I only run a register, and I get tips sometimes.  You're definitely headed in the right direction. Baby steps Pariann. Today Waffle House, tommorrow the White House LOL!!!! 

[pariann]

LOL Dexter if you really want me to make money, you wouldn't tell me to smile a lot.  Have you ever seen my smile?  I'm  not going to sugar coat it.  It's not too pretty.  (The next time I see this thread, I'm deleting this picture. LOL)

Picture now deleted.