a major civilization will last about 200 years...

[Henry Hawk]

 According to Tyler a major civilisation last about 200 years...
   
In this period it goes from bondage to spiritual belief...
From belief to courage..
From courage to freedom...
From Freedom to prosperity...
From prosperity to selfishness,

From selfishness to complacency...
From complacency to apathy...
From apathy to dependency...
And from dependancy to bondage..

Full circle.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."- Alexander Tyler

[Locutus]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

I'm sure you're quite aware of which one(s) have been responsible for the loose fiscal policy of late. 

[Palehorse]

 

[Henry Hawk]

I'm sure you're quite aware of which one(s) have been responsible for the loose fiscal policy of late. 

well as of late, the democrat controlled congress just passed an omnibus spending bill that will soon be presented to the president...it has more than 9,000 earmarks that had little or no review between the publishing of the bill text and the House voting to pass it..... The vast majority of these earmarks do not even appear in the legislative text, but they are buried in the committee reports that accompany the bill...just to keep them from proper review and scrutiny.....let's see if it get's VETOED....

[Locutus]

....let's see if it get's VETOED....

I doubt that will happen.  After all, we've had 6 years of out of control Republican spending that was allowed to run amuck by the same president.  Remember the bridge to nowhere?

The only difference it seems there is anymore is that the philosophy of the Republicans is borrow and spend, and the philosophy of the Democrats is tax and spend.   Which is worse?

[Henry Hawk]

The only difference it seems there is anymore is that the philosophy of the Republicans is borrow and spend, and the philosophy of the Democrats is tax and spend.   Which is worse?

i jest a little, I know the repubs for the most part have been extremely guilty, I'm not making excuses...

but, the part you say "borrow and spend" as opposed to to "tax and spend"....prove that first of all.......

and, by cutting taxes, we have increased our Federal Revenue......so, I'm not saying you are wrong....i just don't agree with your statement...at this time....we have been borrowing money since LBJ...or later

[Henry Hawk]

we are we now?...

According to Tyler a major civilisation last about 200 years...
   
In this period it goes from bondage to spiritual belief...
From belief to courage..
From courage to freedom...
From Freedom to prosperity...
From prosperity to selfishness,

From selfishness to complacency...
From complacency to apathy...
From apathy to dependency...
And from dependancy to bondage..

Full circle.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."- Alexander Tyler

[dan foster]

I guess you still missed that part about the US being a Constitutional Republic and not a true democracy.  So, Tyler's point is moot, for the US.

[Henry Hawk]

I guess you still missed that part about the US being a Constitutional Republic and not a true democracy.  So, Tyler's point is moot, for the US.

are you saying that tylers comment do not apply to our nation, that we are above those points?

[dan foster]

are you saying that tylers comment do not apply to our nation, that we are above those points?

Yes, they do not apply.  The greeks ran a democracy that failed.  We are not a democracy for all the reasons already discussed.  We don't live by mob rule.  Tyler's point is true:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government."

, but only about true democracies and that is "not about us".  So, no matter how many christians wave their hands and pray that "we are a christian nation" because they know that is the majority position, won't make it so.  We live by laws, not wishful thinking.

[Henry Hawk]

We live by laws, not wishful thinking.

We live by FACTS.........our forefathers where predominatly CHRISTIAN...........

[dan foster]

We live by FACTS.........our forefathers where predominatly CHRISTIAN...........

Only the christian ones 

However, our founders (at least the ones that get most of the air time as THE LEADERSHIP), were mostly deists and no matter how much you don't want that to be true, those ARE THE FACTS, from their own words.  I am not going to trade their quotes with you, again.

Now, we already know the puritans and the pilgrims (the forefathers you claim) failed to establish their church's state, even in a single state/commonwealth.   They lost.  Get over it.

[Palehorse]

We live by FACTS.........our forefathers where predominatly CHRISTIAN...........

Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers   

- signed the Declaration of Independence
- signed the Articles of Confederation
- attended the Constitutional Convention of 1787
- signed the Constitution of the United States of America
- served as Senators in the First Federal Congress (1789-1791)
- served as U.S. Representatives in the First Federal Congress


(Religious Affiliation / # of Founding Fathers / % of Whole)

Episcopalian/Anglican    88    54.7%
Presbyterian               30       18.6%
Congregationalist      27      16.8%
Quaker                          7    4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed    6    3.7%
Lutheran                  5    3.1%
Catholic                   3    1.9%
Huguenot                  3    1.9%
Unitarian                     3    1.9%
Methodist                   2    1.2%
Calvinist                     1    0.6%
TOTAL    204    

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

[Henry Hawk]

Only the christian ones 

However, our founders (at least the ones that get most of the air time as THE LEADERSHIP), were mostly deists and no matter how much you don't want that to be true, those ARE THE FACTS, from their own words.  I am not going to trade their quotes with you, again.

Now, we already know the puritans and the pilgrims (the forefathers you claim) failed to establish their church's state, even in a single state/commonwealth.   They lost.  Get over it.

I can out quote you anyday of the weak..

it is divinely obvious....you can talk as powerful as you want.........it is all very simple.........and yet you make it the way you want it.........

I'm not going to post the quotes, but it is sooo clear to their point of faith.............THEY WERE MEN OF FAITH........that's all that needs said...

[Palehorse]

I can out quote you anyday of the weak..

it is divinely obvious....you can talk as powerful as you want.........it is all very simple.........and yet you make it the way you want it.........

I'm not going to post the quotes, but it is sooo clear to their point of faith.............THEY WERE MEN OF FAITH........that's all that needs said...

Yes, but this was during a time in civilization when "God" was an instrument of scare tactics, and humanity was still very much open to it's negative impact.