Why Atheists Are So Angry...

[Sandy Eggo]

Don't care who or what anybody celebrates.....Christmas has become way too secular anymore for most folks...including me.  But, as a family, we still recongnize the Birth of Christ, and simply use it as a time to be grateful to God.  We still have fun with the Santa Clause and everything.  But, it is nice, that at least for Christians, to STOP and slow down in our chaotic lives and embrase the moment....with praising, singing and taking the extra step to show love and gratitude towards family and friends.

and even with the atheists, we can STILL engage in a little showing of gratitude towards each other as friends.

I think based on history, it has always been "secular":

Christmas, annual Christian holiday commemorating the birth of Jesus Christ. Most members of the Roman Catholic Church and followers of Protestantism celebrate Christmas on December 25, and many celebrate on the evening of December 24 as well. Members of most Orthodox Churches around the world also celebrate the holiday on December 25. Some Orthodox Christians in Russia, Ukraine, the Holy Land (the historic region of Palestine), and elsewhere celebrate Christmas on January 7 because they follow the Julian calendar. Members of the Armenian Church observe Christmas on January 6, following the unique custom of celebrating both the birth and baptism of Christ on the same day.

The official Christmas season, popularly known as either Christmastide or the Twelve Days of Christmas, extends from the anniversary of Christ's birth on December 25 to the feast of Epiphany on January 6. On the Epiphany, some Catholics and Protestants celebrate the visit of the Magi while Orthodox Christians, who call the feast Theophany, celebrate the baptism of Christ.

The most important holiday on the Christian calendar is Easter, which commemorates the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus. Nevertheless, many people, particularly in the United States and Canada, consider Christmas to be the most significant annual Christian event. In addition to being a religious holiday, Christmas is a widely observed secular festival. For most people who celebrate Christmas, the holiday season is characterized by gatherings among family and friends, feasting, and gift giving.

Christmas is based on the story of Jesus' birth as described in the Gospel according to Matthew (see Matthew 1:18-2:12) and the Gospel according to Luke (see Luke 1:26-56). Roman Catholics first celebrated Christmas, then known as the Feast of the Nativity, as early as Ad 336. The word Christmas entered the English language sometime around 1050 as the Old English phrase Christes maesse, meaning "festival of Christ." Scholars believe the frequently used shortened form of Christmas—Xmas—may have come into use in the 13th century. The X stands for the Greek letter chi, an abbreviation of Khristos (Christ), and also represents the cross on which Jesus was crucified.

But wait there's more....

II  Origins of Christmas

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Historians are unsure exactly when Christians first began celebrating the Nativity of Christ. However, most scholars believe that Christmas originated in the 4th century as a Christian substitute for pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Before the introduction of Christmas, each year beginning on December 17 Romans honored Saturn, the ancient god of agriculture, in a festival called Saturnalia. This festival lasted for seven days and included the winter solstice, which usually occurred around December 25 on the ancient Julian calendar. During Saturnalia the Romans feasted, postponed all business and warfare, exchanged gifts, and temporarily freed their slaves. Many Romans also celebrated the lengthening of daylight following the winter solstice by participating in rituals to glorify Mithra, the ancient Persian god of light (see Mithraism). These and other winter festivities continued through January 1, the festival of Kalends, when Romans marked the day of the new moon and the first day of the month and year.

Although the Gospels describe Jesus' birth in detail, they never mention the date, so historians do not know on what date he was born. The Roman Catholic Church chose December 25 as the day for the Feast of the Nativity in order to give Christian meaning to existing pagan rituals. For example, the Church replaced festivities honoring the birth of Mithra, the god of light, with festivities to commemorate the birth of Jesus, whom the Bible calls the light of the world. The Catholic Church hoped to draw pagans into its religion by allowing them to continue their revelry while simultaneously honoring the birthday of Jesus. The Eastern Orthodox Church took a slightly different course. By the end of the 4th century the Eastern Church in Constantinople had also begun to acknowledge December 25 as Jesus' birthday, but it emphasized the celebration of Christ's baptism on January 6 as the more important holiday.

Over the next 1000 years, the observance of Christmas followed the expansion of Christianity into the rest of Europe and into Egypt. Along the way, Christian beliefs combined with existing pagan feasts and winter rituals to create many long-standing traditions of Christmas celebrations. For example, ancient Europeans believed that the mistletoe plant held magic powers to bestow life and fertility, to bring about peace, and to protect against disease. Northern Europeans associated the plant with the Norse goddess of love, Freya, and developed the custom of kissing underneath mistletoe branches. Christians incorporated this custom into their Christmas celebrations, and kissing under a mistletoe branch eventually became a part of secular Christmas tradition.

During the Reformation of the 16th century, Protestants challenged the authority of the Catholic Church, including its toleration of surviving pagan traditions during Christmas festivities. For a brief time during the 17th century, Puritans banned Christmas in England and in some English colonies in North America because they felt it had become a season best known for gambling, flamboyant public behavior, and overindulgence in food and drink.

That's pretty secular, but...

Europeans who settled in North America often found they had to change their Christmas celebrations because they could not faithfully recreate the traditions of their homelands. For example, colonists in the American South may have aspired to recreate a sense of the English Christmas. But colonial accounts of Christmas celebrations in the South do not mention the presence of mummers (masked or costumed merrymakers) or waits (musicians or carolers paid to perform at Christmastime), both of which were central figures of the traditional English Christmas. Nor do historical accounts describe settlers engaging in such traditional English customs as feasting on boars' heads or drinking from wassail bowls (bowls filled with spiced ale or wine).

Colonists from England, France, Holland, Spain, and other countries also gradually modified their Christmas ceremonies as they encountered new cultures and traditions in the New World. For example, in large towns, where diverse groups lived close together, the common ground for celebration could often be found in public and secular festivities rather than in potentially divisive religious ceremonies. Thus, at least in New York City, the winter's holidays often culminated on New Year's, not Christmas.

III  Rise of the Modern American Christmas

In the United States and Canada, many elements of modern Christmas celebrations did not emerge until the 19th century. Before then Christmas had been an ordinary workday in many communities, particularly in New England, where early Puritan objections to Christmas celebrations remained highly influential. Among some groups, Christmas was an especially boisterous event, characterized by huge feasts, drunkenness, and raucous public revelry. In an English tradition that survived in some parts of North America, Christmas revelers would dress in costume and progress from door to door to receive gifts of food and drink. Most holiday gifts were limited to small amounts of money and modest presents passed from the wealthy to the poor and from masters to their servants. Families almost never exchanged Christmas gifts among themselves.

The rapidly expanding industrial economy of the 19th century not only flooded the market with new goods for sale, but also helped establish a new middle class, one that placed special value on home and family life. Christmas gained increased prominence largely because many people believed it could draw families together and honor children. Giving gifts to children and loved ones eventually replaced the raucous public celebrations of the past, and Christmas became primarily a domestic holiday.

The new custom of Christmas gift giving allowed the marketplace to exert an unprecedented influence on holiday celebrations. Commercial innovations such as department stores and mass advertising further expanded the custom of exchanging Christmas gifts. Seasonal retail sales helped fuel the economy, causing merchants and advertisers to become some of the season's most ardent promoters. Many holiday celebrants regretted these changes, however, and began voicing the now common lament that Christmas had become too commercial.

Christmas also gained new importance among urban residents. Cities became crowded with immigrants, who introduced a wide variety of religious and cultural practices to North American life. Celebrating Christmas emerged as a way for people from different parts of the world to create a sense of community in the city. The holiday forged a broad, nondenominational sense of Christian spirit while promoting an idealized sense of communal good will.

A  Santa Claus

As Christmas evolved in the United States, new customs were adopted and many old ones were reworked. The legend of Santa Claus, for example, had origins in Europe and was brought by Dutch settlers to New York in the early 18th century. Traditionally, Santa Claus—from the Dutch Sinterklaas—was depicted as a tall, dignified, religious figure riding a white horse through the air. Known as Saint Nicholas in Germany, he was usually accompanied by Black Peter, an elf who punished disobedient children. In North America he eventually developed into a fat, jolly old gentleman who had neither the religious attributes of Saint Nicholas nor the strict disciplinarian character of Black Peter.

Santa's transformation began in 1823, when a New York newspaper published the poem "A Visit from Saint Nicholas," which Clement Clark Moore had written to amuse his daughter. The poem introduced many Americans to the story of a kindly saint who flew over housetops in a reindeer–drawn sleigh. Portraits and drawings of Santa Claus by American illustrator Thomas Nast further strengthened the legend during the second half of the 19th century. Living at the North Pole and assisted by elves, the modern Santa produced and delivered toys to all good children. By the late 19th century he had become such a prominent figure of American folklore that in 1897, when Virginia O'Hanlon wrote to the New York Sun newspaper asking if Santa were real, she received a direct answer: "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus."

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761556859/Christmas.html

So, it appears as if Jesus was assigned a birthday based on pagan rituals and the celebration of Christmas hasn't changed a whole lot with exception to everything closing. 

[Henry Hawk]

and your point is...

[Locutus]

and your point is...

This is PIYA ------>

[Henry Hawk]

This is PIYA ------>

she wrote as if WE didn't know that stuff already....

i think my point was overlooked not hers.....

[lex]

One thing we can't forget  , it's CHRISTmas.

[Mr442]

Xmas works fine too.

Actually I always chuckle when I see one of those lame "reason for the season" proclamations.  Obviously those folks don't have a clue about the real origin.

And during my religious trek, I had more difficulty with Christmas than any other time in my life, since the bible spoke directly against it.  Just another one of many condtradictions that pushed me away.

I look back now and wonder how I could have been gullible enough to even try believing that stuff.  I guess it was part of the learning experience.  I feel a lot happier now.

Have Happy Holidays

[Sandy Eggo]

Xmas works fine too.

Actually I always chuckle when I see one of those lame "reason for the season" proclamations.  Obviously those folks don't have a clue about the real origin.

Henry, this is part of my point and the other part was in reference to your comment that the holiday has become "more secular". Perhaps it has w/in your personal experience, but overall, throughout history,  the holiday hasn't been and still isn't observed in the same way or for the same reasons.

[Henry Hawk]

Henry, this is part of my point and the other part was in reference to your comment that the holiday has become "more secular". Perhaps it has w/in your personal experience, but overall, throughout history,  the holiday hasn't been and still isn't observed in the same way or for the same reasons.

i think, if anybody is to blame for what i call a secular christmas, it would be the Christians themselve falling into the trap set up by the secular world we live in.  Christians of the past generations, celebrated Christmas, with the birth of Christ as the "reason for the season" so to speak...it was not commercial.  But, what bothers me is the political incorrectness that has overtaken Christmas and Christianity in whole.  You can talk about God all day long to people but if you bring up Jesus as Lord..................WOW! people don't want to talk anymore.....and I have experienced this first hand many, many, many times.

[Sandy Eggo]

i think, if anybody is to blame for what i call a secular christmas, it would be the Christians themselve falling into the trap set up by the secular world we live in.  Christians of the past generations, celebrated Christmas, with the birth of Christ as the "reason for the season" so to speak...it was not commercial.  But, what bothers me is the political incorrectness that has overtaken Christmas and Christianity in whole.  You can talk about God all day long to people but if you bring up Jesus as Lord..................WOW! people don't want to talk anymore.....and I have experienced this first hand many, many, many times.

Did you read the history of the holiday? 

[Henry Hawk]

Did you read the history of the holiday? 

yes I did.....and that is a from a secularist's point of view.  Christians, followers of Christ.....celebrate the birth of Christ....as we do Easter as the resurrection of Christ...as a time of giving thanks, and taking an extra opportunity to worship Him in a ceremonious way.......just because the secular crowd has overcome these holidays, does NOT deminish the Christian values of these events.

[Sandy Eggo]

yes I did.....and that is a from a secularist's point of view.  Christians, followers of Christ.....celebrate the birth of Christ....as we do Easter as the resurrection of Christ...as a time of giving thanks, and taking an extra opportunity to worship Him in a ceremonious way.......just because the secular crowd has overcome these holidays, does NOT deminish the Christian values of these events.

That is the documented historical account of the holiday. Facts are facts. IF you and other Christians want to acknowledge it as a holy day, knock your socks off, however don't complain that the meaning of the holiday is being changed into a secular meaning, because it's the Christians attempted to change it from it's original intent to begin with.

[Henry Hawk]

That is the documented historical account of the holiday. Facts are facts. IF you and other Christians want to acknowledge it as a holy day, knock your socks off, however don't complain that the meaning of the holiday is being changed into a secular meaning, because it's the Christians attempted to change it from it's original intent to begin with.

whatever....you truly do NOT have a clue to being a Christian.....and reading so called fact of holy days, don't mean didly squat....I know what IS happening and what HAS happened.....it may not be in any books, but it is obvious what is going on.....i live it and see it....I know the history of this land....the way it was and the way it IS......not rocket science....it is really simple...and sad.

[lex]

whatever....you truly do NOT have a clue to being a Christian.....and reading so called fact of holy days, don't mean didly squat....I know what IS happening and what HAS happened.....it may not be in any books, but it is obvious what is going on.....i live it and see it....I know the history of this land....the way it was and the way it IS......not rocket science....it is really simple...and sad.

Annoying isn't it? But cheer up, the end is near..lol. There was a time when I wouldn't have believed what comes out of these people's mouths would be said by any but lunatics. I knew these days were around the corner, but TADA, here they are now. It's a combination of things, Spirit of delusion and the mystery of sin come to fruition. It's about seal, vials and trumps time.

But...judgment comes first to the house of the Lord. If you think things suck now, it's nothing like what's coming. The herd will be thinned.

Then it's rock n roll time...

[Sandy Eggo]

whatever....you truly do NOT have a clue to being a Christian.....and reading so called fact of holy days, don't mean didly squat....I know what IS happening and what HAS happened.....it may not be in any books, but it is obvious what is going on.....i live it and see it....I know the history of this land....the way it was and the way it IS......not rocket science....it is really simple...and sad.

Wow, you're a lil' testy when faced w/the fallacy of your thinking aren't ya?

Christianity is interconnected w/Christmas throughout history. It's a  holiday seeped in VARIOUS traditions and beliefs and I think you're missing my point. The holiday has been secular all along regardless of it's connection to Christianity.

Why do you perceive the truth about the origin of Christmas to be an attack on your faith? I  haven't said anything negative about Christianity or your personal faith at all.

[lex]

Wow, you're a lil' testy when faced w/the fallacy of your thinking aren't ya?

Christianity is interconnected w/Christmas throughout history. It's a  holiday seeped in VARIOUS traditions and beliefs and I think you're missing my point. The holiday has been secular all along regardless of it's connection to Christianity.

Why do you perceive the truth about the origin of Christmas to be an attack on your faith? I  haven't said anything negative about Christianity or your personal faith at all.

I am going to pinch hit for HH if I may be so bold on this one.

Christmas is foremost about Christ and his birthday. Over the years this message has been watered down and glossed over until we got acceptance of nativity scenes being booted out of the traditional spots. People are instructed not to say Merry Christmas even because it might offend someone.

This kind of crap didn't happen years ago, people from all over would have went nuts.

Then you factor in how commercialized Christmas has become, how it's shoved down our throats to spend barrels of money during the toughest season of the year, and if you don't, then you just didn't have a "good Christmas".

To top it off, there is nothing sacred, there is nothing pure. Christmas gets dumped on by filth, it's hammered with more than it's share of vulgarity and in contrast to those days of yesteryear it's losing its meaning and frankly it's magic.

30, 40 years ago it was special, now.....*sigh*