Education

[awol]

This is Mrs. AWOL, and here's my rant:

I believe that our education system is in dire need of a complete overhaul.  I'm really tired of hearing about problems in education and seeing the weight of proposed (and incorporated) changes continually falling squarely onto the shoulders of the students - usually children or very young "adults".  Has anyone ever considered that it's the societal view of education that needs to change?

Now, don't get me wrong.  I value education greatly and hope for my son to excel when he begins his education experience; however, I disagree with our new version of "traditional" education.  Following are some points to ponder, along with my take on them.

    * As we take more and more responsibility out of the hands of young people, why do we keep expecting them to make a responsible choice for their life's path at younger and younger ages? - Twenty years ago, a man could have a beer on his 19th birthday - today, not until he's 21 (legally, of course.  I'm not stupid!).  Fifty years ago, teenagers were mailed a driver's license on their 16th birthday.  They had earned the right to drive simply by virtue of making it to that ripe old age.  Now, we have states that are giving "provisional" licenses to drivers under the age of 18, and sometimes 21.  At the same time, a 14 year old middle school student is expected to determine whether he/she is going to pursue a college preparatory high school career or not.  How about letting them grow up before they have to plan the rest of their lives?
    * Why do we insist that everyone needs to go to college? - Let's face it.  Some people are not, and should not be, college bound.  Perhaps if we didn't need to include the test scores of students who shouldn't be students in our figures, then our average test scores wouldn't be so low.  Once upon a time, those "non-students" could choose to "drop out" of school at 16 years old.  Choosing to do so didn't force said student into a life of abject poverty because there were plenty of alternatives.  Colleges accepted 18 year olds who had dropped out and, subsequently, earned their GED.  Employers hired "drop outs" to do things that "drop outs" were perfectly qualified to do for reasonable wages that kept the employers costs down and still allowed the employee to support himself.
    * Why do employers seem to think that every job requires a college education? - While we're at it, let's face this:  Not all jobs require a college education.  In fact, many careers are far better trained "on the job".  I recently learned that regulatory boards for the Electrical field were considering making a college degree a prerequisite to earning a Master Electrician certification.  I say, "What the heck does Billiards or Astronomy have to do with wiring my house?"  What happened to the days where a young boy or girl could learn a trade simply by observing a mentor and slowly helping with more and more of the process?
    * Why can't people see the economic ramifications of encouraging too many people to earn too much, or too high, of an education? - As we give younger and younger children assessment tests to determine what they should do with their lives, we wind up with more and more 30 to 40 year olds who hate their lives.  These people were forced (strongly encouraged) to choose a path at 14 years old, have since learned that they didn't know anything about life at 14 years old and are now too far in debt from their education to make any changes.  If there were scholarship, grant and loan programs for adults to the extent that there are for teenagers, then high school graduates could take some time to work a variety of jobs and determine what they really want to do before committing 4, 6, 8 or more years and $80,000 to something that turns out to be wrong.  When we have too many highly educated people (possibly in the wrong field) and not enough skilled jobs, we wind up with workers who can't afford to work.


Again, I'm not against education.  I just think that it needs to change.  I'm trying to figure out how to tell my son as he grows older that he needs to go to college.  I would like to see him go; but, when I see people with college degrees on welfare and those without running successful businesses, making wages twice as high or even just doing "whatever it takes" to make it on their own, it's hard for me to find that positive encouragement.

Thoughts?

[kimmi]

I'm with you and understand your frustration.

As an educator, I see the pressures of putting all children in "college bound" curriculum.  This is dangerous and will eventually lead to more drop outs because the bottom of the bell curve kids will be called failures year after year.  Why would you stay in something that you know you aren't good at doing?  There are fewer and fewer vocational and technical schools available as a choice.  Here in my county, where we educate 120K students a year, has one Votech school available.  There are no buses that go there.  You must provide your own transportation.  I'm sorry but I want my auto mechanic to be as skilled in his/her field as my dentist, hair stylist, yoga instructor, or minister.  All have had training and not all have had to go to college to get it.  The business world seems to think that the day of skilled labor is past and technology is the future or you can hire out skilled labor at half the cost somewhere else.  Where does that leave our non-college bound population?  Flipping burgers or selling crack?  Well I know which one will put food on the table faster!

My only guess to the provisional license is that there are more cars on the highways now, bigger parkways, faster cars, etc...  I have always said that if every 16 year old got either a Ford Escort or Chevy S10 pickup for their first car, we would have less killing themselves by wrapping their Mustangs around a tree.  I see so many teenagers in cars that they have no business driving.  Giving a kid who thinks they are invincible a car with a V8 engine in it is reckless.  I know that is the parent's issue, but we all have to share the same roads with these kids.  Responsibiliy comes with age. 

My opinions of course.

[pariann]

On education, I have an 18 year old daughter that went through her 4 years of high school college bound. She graduated one class shy of Academic  Honors because she got half a grade lower in Chemistry than was expected. Oh she got to keep her A H ribbon and medal, but she wasn't allowed to wear it at her graduation.  She then completed one semester at Ball State, had gotten halfway through the 2nd semester and had to pull out for the rest of this semester because suddenly she couldn't make the grade.  Now she's working full time at the job she's had for nearly a year and a half.  The degree that she's seeking? Something in the field of Fashion Design, in the meantime she's making decent money waiting tables.  I personally have spent the better part of my life mostly making a decent wage serving the public, and never needed a college degree to do it.

I have a 17 year old daughter who is not a good student.  She is a great kid, stays out of trouble, but studying and making the grade is just not in it for her.  She's a junior this year but has been informed that she will have to do at the very least another year of high school beyond her senior year.  Why? Because she has to have 44 credits to graduate.  44? I needed 28 to graduate when I went to school, my senior year I only had 3 classes, and I was not in a work program or vocational school.  There's little chance this child of mine is going to go to college, yet she is being forced to earn college bound credits.  Her dean suggested to her just yesterday that she take the pre-test for her GED.  Even that person knows my daughter is not a student that will succeed by being forced to remain in school an additional year.   I would love to see my daughter graduate from high school, but not at the expense of stressing her by forcing her to receive an education based on something that is unlikely to happen.  Some of us are just better at serving you than we are being served.

[Henry Hawk]

I have stressed education upon all of my kids...I feel that college is extremly important to assure a comfortable lifestyle....but, they got to want to go, they got to make up their own mind when the time comes....more importantly, I want them the opportunity to do something that they have a passion for.....and give them every opportunity to achieve it....

I understand, college is not for everyone....but, I would like to see the opportunity for further education available to every person who wants the opportunity...more grants, better loans, despite thier income or race or past....I think, that the days of making a decent living without some sort of training or education are gone....

[kimmi]

Doesn't the state of Georgia offer college tuition to students that attend a state school?  I swear I heard that somewhere.   

[pariann]

The state of Indiana does...for students who are qualifying.  All my children qualify.

[Jet]

I think, that the days of making a decent living without some sort of training or education are gone....

You miss the point.  I don't believe that the days of making a decent living without some sort of training or education ever existed.  Everyone who has ever successfully supported themselves and/or a family was trained or educated in something.  My beef is with the fact that training and education no longer count for anything unless it cost the student thousands of dollars to "earn".  This makes it so that, at the same time the cost for education/training rises, the value of said education/training falls.  My brother, father and grandfather all educated themselves into being masters of a trade while earning a good enough living to support their families.  They didn't need to spend a dime in order to do it; and, I would certainly rather that one of them, with their 20, 40 and 55 years of experience, perform work in my home than some kid who just spent 4 years sitting in college.

[Jet]

BTW - this is Mrs. AWOL

[pariann]

Hiya Jet (aka Mrs AWOL) glad to meet you, and let me say I like your take on this subject.

[Sandy Eggo]

Welcome Mrs.Awol! 

[Henry Hawk]

You miss the point.  I don't believe that the days of making a decent living without some sort of training or education ever existed.  Everyone who has ever successfully supported themselves and/or a family was trained or educated in something.  My beef is with the fact that training and education no longer count for anything unless it cost the student thousands of dollars to "earn".  This makes it so that, at the same time the cost for education/training rises, the value of said education/training falls.  My brother, father and grandfather all educated themselves into being masters of a trade while earning a good enough living to support their families.  They didn't need to spend a dime in order to do it; and, I would certainly rather that one of them, with their 20, 40 and 55 years of experience, perform work in my home than some kid who just spent 4 years sitting in college.

I get your point, and I agree with the fact, that it is possible to be very successfull in a trade, if you are fortunate enough to have someone train you....your grandfather, taught your father, and your father taught your brother, and it took years I'm sure to become skilled enough to make a solid living, and it took a lot of sweat and tears, I'm sure to achieve the good fortune....a price was paid, I'm sure...but for the average kid coming up now days, I really think, they need that stupid piece of paper, that says, they completed 4-years of education...many business's today want to see a kid has enough gumption to stick out four years of discipline, before they hire them.....they days of working for a manufacturer, with skilled pay for an unskilled position are long gone....

BTW, welcome aboard....if at some time I call you "Mrs. poopiehead", please do not be offended, ask awol, for further explanation.....

[pariann]

<gasp>  How could you even entertain the thought of calling her that??  She may not like awol's explanation!!

[Jet]

Thank you, Henry, for agreeing with me and for reiterating one of the major problems.  You are absolutely correct that many employers want that piece of paper indicating that a potential employee has invested his time and money into "education."  Just because it's so, doesn't make it right and doesn't mean that it should continue unquestioned.  I submit that many of those same employers would actually save money simply by training their new employees to do the specific job for which they were hired.

Example:  Employee A did not seek higher education and can, therefore, afford to take a job for $10/hour.  Employee B has $250 in student loan payments per month and, therefore, can't settle for less than $12.88/hour for the same position.  If it takes 2 extra weeks to train Employee A, then, by hiring Employee A, the employer is saving money 7 weeks after the training is complete.

The economic ramifications of our current mindset seem obvious to me.  Demand for education continues to rise...cost for education rises in response....more educated (and in debt) people are seeking jobs in a market where competition is fierce because too many people are "qualified"....either the amount of people who can't make ends meet rises or the cost to provide goods and services rises.  Don't you think that we, on a societal level, should rethink this trend?

Oh - and I am honored to be "Mrs. poopiehead."

[pariann]

I'll suck my gasp back in then. LOL 

[Sandy Eggo]

Oh - and I am honored to be "Mrs. poopiehead."

OMG I can't believe he went there.