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Turks shoot down Russian warplane

Started by Palehorse, November 24, 2015, 10:56:53 AM

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Palehorse

November 24, 2015, 10:56:53 AM
It would appear that we all may very well get the opportunity to find out which of us is correct pertaining to Russia's willingness to go to war and the International community's willingness to hold it accountable for potential war crimes.

Turkey shot down a Russian Jet Fighter that had violated its airspace, reportedly after 5 minutes of warning it to leave. Turkey is a NATO member country which we are sworn to protect, and Putin is calling it a stab in the back. . . The international community is storming over this incident, and given Russia's proclivity to react very aggressively toward what it perceives as attacks, I suspect a very bad situation is about to get exponentially worse. . .  :spooked:
R.I.P. - followsthewolf - You are MISSED! 4/17/2013

That which fails to kill me. . .should run!

Any "point" made by one that lacks credibility, is only as useful as toilet paper; and serves the same purpose. ~ Palehorse 4/22/2017

May you find charity when it is needed, and the ability to extend it when it is not. ~Palehorse 7/4/2012

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.~Herman Melville

Locutus

#1
November 24, 2015, 11:22:59 AM
I was wondering if someone was going to bring that up today. 
One of the gravest dangers to the survival of our republic is an ignorant electorate routinely feeding at the trough of propaganda.   -- Locutus

"We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically."  -- Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson

Henry Hawk

#2
November 24, 2015, 11:27:21 AM
We better get the FACTS before we react.  I don't see how we can have any trust with either of these countries.
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

Exterminator

#3
November 24, 2015, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 24, 2015, 11:27:21 AM
We better get the FACTS before we react.  I don't see how we can have any trust with either of these countries.

Huh?
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Henry Hawk

#4
November 24, 2015, 12:59:59 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on November 24, 2015, 12:42:08 PM
Huh?
You know exactly what I mean....if we decide to back up Turkey and Russia bombs the shit out of them, what do we do?  If we decide Russia did nothing wrong, do we agree with Russia bombing the shit out of Turkey.....Did Russia fly into an area they were NOT supposed too?  Did Turkey shoot down a Russian jet when the jet was in authorized territory?

Somebody is lying and I don't trust either one....so do we have FACTS on this or just taking the word of one of them?
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

Exterminator

#5
November 24, 2015, 01:15:54 PM
Is there some part about Turkey being a NATO country that you are having trouble grasping?
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Palehorse

#6
November 24, 2015, 01:41:02 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 24, 2015, 11:27:21 AM
We better get the FACTS before we react.  I don't see how we can have any trust with either of these countries.

"NATO Member" means we are obligated to back them. Period.

That being said, Russia may very well not provide anyone time to assess factual evidence before it reacts. The US and France are calling for no one to react until the incident can be properly assessed. Russia has a demonstrated proclivity for reacting first and with extreme prejudice.

THAT will result in the US being required to back Turkey in such an occurrence. Period.

Russia's arrogance is likely the root cause of this, and a key element of the inherent danger of having so many powerful participants in an operational theatre. I am sure ISIS has been counting on just this kind of thing happening. . .
R.I.P. - followsthewolf - You are MISSED! 4/17/2013

That which fails to kill me. . .should run!

Any "point" made by one that lacks credibility, is only as useful as toilet paper; and serves the same purpose. ~ Palehorse 4/22/2017

May you find charity when it is needed, and the ability to extend it when it is not. ~Palehorse 7/4/2012

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.~Herman Melville

Locutus

#7
November 24, 2015, 01:42:12 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 24, 2015, 12:59:59 PM
You know exactly what I mean....if we decide to back up Turkey and Russia bombs the shit out of them, what do we do?  If we decide Russia did nothing wrong, do we agree with Russia bombing the shit out of Turkey.....Did Russia fly into an area they were NOT supposed too?  Did Turkey shoot down a Russian jet when the jet was in authorized territory?

Somebody is lying and I don't trust either one....so do we have FACTS on this or just taking the word of one of them?


What facts are you talking about?

1. The Russians said the Turks shot it down.
2. The Turks confirmed they shot it down.

Ergo, the Turks shot it down. 

The Russians claim it was shot down over Syrian airspace.  The Turks maintain that they warned it 10 times after repeated incursions into Turkish airspace.  Is that what you're talking about?

As far as who is more believable on this matter, I'm with the Turks given the way Putin has been flexing his muscles around the world. 
One of the gravest dangers to the survival of our republic is an ignorant electorate routinely feeding at the trough of propaganda.   -- Locutus

"We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically."  -- Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson

Exterminator

#8
November 24, 2015, 02:14:45 PM
Quote from: Locutus on November 24, 2015, 01:42:12 PM
As far as who is more believable on this matter, I'm with the Turks given the way Putin has been flexing his muscles around the world.

Yep, the Russians have been intentionally violating the air space of other countries for some time now.
Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it's victorious.

The truth is slow, but relentless. Over time it becomes irresistible.

Henry Hawk

#9
November 24, 2015, 02:22:11 PM
Quote from: Locutus on November 24, 2015, 01:42:12 PM

What facts are you talking about?

1. The Russians said the Turks shot it down.
2. The Turks confirmed they shot it down.

Ergo, the Turks shot it down. 

The Russians claim it was shot down over Syrian airspace.  The Turks maintain that they warned it 10 times after repeated incursions into Turkish airspace.  Is that what you're talking about?

As far as who is more believable on this matter, I'm with the Turks given the way Putin has been flexing his muscles around the world. 
Yeah, that is EXACTLY what I am saying....

With that said, there are pretty strong claims with the Turks collaborating with ISIS........So.....Putin, is doing what he can to destroy ISIS.....maybe he is trying to draw Turkey into mix, to give him a good excuse to wipe out ISIS in Turkey.....

??
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

Palehorse

#10
November 24, 2015, 03:00:17 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on November 24, 2015, 02:14:45 PM
Yep, the Russians have been intentionally violating the air space of other countries for some time now.

Including our own. . .
R.I.P. - followsthewolf - You are MISSED! 4/17/2013

That which fails to kill me. . .should run!

Any "point" made by one that lacks credibility, is only as useful as toilet paper; and serves the same purpose. ~ Palehorse 4/22/2017

May you find charity when it is needed, and the ability to extend it when it is not. ~Palehorse 7/4/2012

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.~Herman Melville

Palehorse

#11
November 24, 2015, 03:01:59 PM
. . . And now an apparent terrorist attack in Tunisia after a bus exploded killing at least 15. . . They have declared a state of emergency.
R.I.P. - followsthewolf - You are MISSED! 4/17/2013

That which fails to kill me. . .should run!

Any "point" made by one that lacks credibility, is only as useful as toilet paper; and serves the same purpose. ~ Palehorse 4/22/2017

May you find charity when it is needed, and the ability to extend it when it is not. ~Palehorse 7/4/2012

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.~Herman Melville

Locutus

#12
November 24, 2015, 05:43:56 PM
A Russian marine has been killed during an attempted rescue operation for one of the pilots of the downed jet. 
One of the gravest dangers to the survival of our republic is an ignorant electorate routinely feeding at the trough of propaganda.   -- Locutus

"We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically."  -- Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson

Locutus

#13
November 24, 2015, 05:49:09 PM
Uh oh!   This isn't good.   

A U.S. official told CNN that a calculation shows the Russian jet was in Turkish airspace for 30 seconds or less. The Turkish government has said that it issued 10 warnings over five minutes but did not say all of those warnings occurred while the jet was in their airspace.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/index.html
One of the gravest dangers to the survival of our republic is an ignorant electorate routinely feeding at the trough of propaganda.   -- Locutus

"We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically."  -- Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson

The Troll

#14
November 24, 2015, 10:50:13 PM
Quote from: Locutus on November 24, 2015, 05:49:09 PM
Uh oh!   This isn't good.   

A U.S. official told CNN that a calculation shows the Russian jet was in Turkish airspace for 30 seconds or less. The Turkish government has said that it issued 10 warnings over five minutes but did not say all of those warnings occurred while the jet was in their airspace.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/index.html

  That American made fighter flew by the Turks sure took out that killing Russian bomber, that was killing Turks on the ground.  :thumbsup:   :yes: :laugh:




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