Indiana's Religious Freedom Legislation

[Henry Hawk]

But our Constitution says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...are you saying that if you are a Christian you must give up your exercise of faith if you want to own your own business????

Cmon locutus, we are not saying we can not serve whoever we want, we just want that right to not participate at an event where it goes against our faith.  There are laws in place that say you cannot discriminate, but a person of faith should be prohibited the free exercise of their faith, because plain and simple our forefathers made that our very first rule to live by as an American!

Not that it has been a big problem, but a person can be sued for not wanting to cater a gay wedding.....I'm tired of that example, but it works.  A civil court costs money, enough to harm a small or medium sized business.  That is wrong and there millions of Americans of faith who WANT that religious freedom.  That does not make them bigots.  If they refused to allow gays to come in there shop, THAT is wrong and no christian of good faith would ever do that....not that there aren't some fd  up Christians out there just as there are some fd up liberals out there who atr indeed bigots!  The bigotry is exploding right now by those who want to burn down a woman's pizzeria because they are intolerant of her opinion.

[Locutus]

But our Constitution says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...are you saying that if you are a Christian you must give up your exercise of faith if you want to own your own business????

Yes; we've had this conversation.  Corporations are not people.   When you open your business to serve the public, anti-discrimination laws kick in.  Government regulates commerce all the time. 

Cmon locutus, we are not saying we can not serve whoever we want, we just want that right to not participate at an event where it goes against our faith.  There are laws in place that say you cannot discriminate, but a person of faith should be prohibited the free exercise of their faith, because plain and simple our forefathers made that our very first rule to live by as an American!

What if your faith says you don't serve atheists, or nig*ers, or any other group of people for that matter?  Should that be protected as a free expression of religion, or not allowed because of what it really is? 

Not that it has been a big problem, but a person can be sued for not wanting to cater a gay wedding.....I'm tired of that example, but it works.  A civil court costs money, enough to harm a small or medium sized business.  That is wrong and there millions of Americans of faith who WANT that religious freedom.  That does not make them bigots.  If they refused to allow gays to come in there shop, THAT is wrong and no christian of good faith would ever do that....not that there aren't some fd  up Christians out there just as there are some fd up liberals out there who atr indeed bigots!  The bigotry is exploding right now by those who want to burn down a woman's pizzeria because they are intolerant of her opinion.

You said one thing right here.  It hasn't been a big problem, ergo, these kinds of laws are really solutions looking for problems that largely don't exist.  However they absolutely are targeting the LGBT community. 

Again, if you're going into business to serve the public, you're under an obligation to serve all of the public who is willing to pay for the products and services you provide.  If you're an individual who has a talent playing the piano, and a gay couple asks you to play the piano at their wedding, it's perfectly within your rights to deny them based on your religious beliefs.  The same is not true when you open up your business to the public. 

[Henry Hawk]

And we can go on and on about this and I am wore out doing the one finger input on my tablet!!!

I am tapping out tonight! But have a rebuttal in store for tomorrow!

😊

BTW, it is now $366,000 with over 12,000 donators!

On the eve of Good Friday, I am proud to profess my faith in Christ!

[Palehorse]

. . .

On the eve of Good Friday, I am proud to profess my faith in Christ!

A man who according to the Bible and theologians, spent his time in the company of the outcasts of society in his time. A man that welcomed those that society deemed a scourge. A man that it is highly likely, would have sided with those that deemed this law as discriminatory and oppressive , and acted in a similar manner.

Even the almighty corporations, which the SCOTUS granted constitutional rights guaranteed to individuals, (Which you yourself so vehemently supported), came out solidly on the side of the LGBT community which this legislation so blatantly targeted.
So I ask; who is the hypocrite in this?

[Locutus]

Good words PH!

[Locutus]

BTW, I'll give you three guesses who's going to get the credit for this financial windfall that these people have now encountered, but the first two don't count.

I'll even give you a hint on this one too.  It isn't going to be Dana Loesch.

Any guesses?   

[Henry Hawk]

A man who according to the Bible and theologians, spent his time in the company of the outcasts of society in his time. A man that welcomed those that society deemed a scourge. A man that it is highly likely, would have sided with those that deemed this law as discriminatory and oppressive , and acted in a similar manner.

Even the almighty corporations, which the SCOTUS granted constitutional rights guaranteed to individuals, (Which you yourself so vehemently supported), came out solidly on the side of the LGBT community which this legislation so blatantly targeted.
So I ask; who is the hypocrite in this?

But he STILL declared that a sin is a sin.  Jesus did NOT encourage gays to marry or prostitutes to continue their ways.  He spoke out strongly against immoral sex.....1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a]

or

Jude 5   Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

I'm no preacher, but I can win all day long pointing out where Jesus was strongly against sexual immorality.  Yes, he hung out with them, he LOVED them as he loved EVERYONE.  He wanted them to change, and live by the word.

With that being said....Why would you call me a hypocrite?

I do NOTHING to bring harm to gays.  I have NO hatred towards them.  I have worked with them, ate with them and have friends that are gay.  Why do you just assume that if you are a Christian, you hate Gays.  I merely believe that their lifestyle is wrong.  I also believe that if you cheat on your wife, it is JUST as wrong. 

I am to the point though, Gay marriage is such a non-issue to me personally.  I think this country has MUCH bigger problems.  But, I firmly believe our Government should not condemn or punish anyone who does not want to partake their business in something that goes against their RELIGIOUS beliefs, as long as it does not bring any physical harm to them.

I want to make it perfectly clear, I do not HATE the LGBT community...I strongly disagree with them, but have zero hate.  That comes from the flat middle of my heart.

[Henry Hawk]

BTW...

$500,221 of $200k     Raised by 16,956 people in 1 day       

[Exterminator]

Prove it asswipe!  Just because somebody has a different opinion than YOU, you call them bigots.  WHO in the hell is being intolerant now!!!!  This lowlife scumbag, has their OWN business. That was doing quite well, until, they voiced an opinion....they you hateful motherfuckers, went to yelp and threatened them and anybody that goes to it.  Talk about some low life scum bags!!

You are the epitome of low life scum bags!!

There, that felt SOOOOO f'ing good!!! 

Doesn't surprise me in the least that one low-life scum bag would so vehemently defend another.   

[Bo D]

Jesus did NOT encourage gays to marry or prostitutes to continue their ways.  He spoke out strongly against immoral sex.....1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a]

Jesus didn't say that. Do you know who wrote it?

Jude 5   Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Of course, Jesus didn't say that either.

[Henry Hawk]

Jesus didn't say that. Do you know who wrote it?

Yes

Of course, Jesus didn't say that either.

But, the apostles, who were taught by Christ himself, clearly understood exactly what the message was/is.

[Exterminator]

But, the apostles, who were taught by Christ himself, clearly understood exactly what the message was/is.

Hatred and intolerance?

[Bo D]

YesBut, the apostles, who were taught by Christ himself, clearly understood exactly what the message was/is.

Not the point. You wrote "Jesus did NOT encourage gays to marry or prostitutes to continue their ways.  He spoke out strongly against immoral sex.....1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men"

[Bo D]

Since we're quoting the Bible .....

Acts 10:28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew  to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but  God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean."

Romans 14:2-6 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


John 8:7 - ...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone ...

[Henry Hawk]

Since we're quoting the Bible .....

Acts 10:28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew  to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but  God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean."

Romans 14:2-6 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


John 8:7 - ...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone ...

I agree with you.  What is your point?  Just because a Christian may not WANT to participate in a Gay wedding does not mean he saying he is without sin.

I have one for ya!

1 Timothy 1:9-10 ESV

Understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

I totally get this and agree with it as do most Christians that I know...

Jesus also told the woman who was caught in adultery to "Go and sin no more."  IT was wrong, He knew it and called her out on it...... He warned people that not only the act of adultery was wrong, but even THINKING about adultery was wrong......He shamed the woman at the well by pointing out to her that he knew she was living with a man who was not her husband....It was wrong and He pointed it out, he didn't condone it.  Yet, he loves everyone and we all have a path he wants us to go down.