Asiana 214 Crash at KSFO

[Palehorse]

There should have been a stall indication, but you stall a heavy Boeing-777 that close to the ground, there's not a hell of a lot you're going to be able to do about it.  There's just not enough time to recover.

No doubt. I found that eyewitness video interesting though. He apparently has watched aircraft from that hotel a whole lot to recognize the fact he was too low too soon.

[Locutus]

No doubt. I found that eyewitness video interesting though. He apparently has watched aircraft from that hotel a whole lot to recognize the fact he was too low too soon.

Yep!  He was pretty emotional about what he saw too.

[Palehorse]

This morning the fact the airport's ILS was not operational came to light.

. . .The ILS integrates with the aircraft's cockpit to trigger a audible warning, retired 777 pilot Mark Weiss told CNN. "You hear a mechanical voice that says, 'too low, too low, too low.'" The ILS is "nice to have," Weiss said, "but it's not critical on the 777." There are redundant systems aboard the aircraft that would provide similar warnings if the plane was coming in too low, said Weiss, who has landed 777s hundreds of times. . .

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/07/us/plane-crash-main/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

While it isn't necessary I wonder what part it played, if any. Passenger accounts seem to indicate the pilot was indeed too low in his approach, since some say it appeared they were "10 feet above the water".  While 10 feet may actually be 50 or 100 feet, given the disproportionate appearances when aboard such a large aircraft, apparently this veteran pilot either had no idea, or was not concerned over it for some reason.

They also say he struck the edge of the runway, and since one external eyewitness says the landing gear was down, it seems probable that the gear was sheered off by the edge of the runway. . . 

[Locutus]

I'll say it again. 

Pilot error.

 

[Palehorse]

I'll say it again. 

Pilot error.

 

It may take the NTSB two years to come to that conclusion, but it appears to be the case. 

[Locutus]

It may take the NTSB two years to come to that conclusion, but it appears to be the case. 

Yeah, but I think they'll release something preliminary before then though.  They usually do.

[Palehorse]

Yeah, but I think they'll release something preliminary before then though.  They usually do.

6 months to a year later. . .

I do understand though that these kinds of incidents take time to understand and piece together. Lives are lost and it is a serious business, so it must be done thoroughly and accurately.

Interesting that the interior incurred so much damage. From looking at some of the pictures it appears there was an electrical fire of some sort; or perhaps the oxygen mask system deployed on impact and a spark ignited it? Strange how the roof looks melted in spots.

[Palehorse]

CNN currently has an exclusive video of the aircraft on its approach and of the crash. A guy was video taping it! 

Pretty clear that the tail struck first because he had the nose up, due to the potential stall no doubt.

The gear was probably crushed since it was slammed onto the runway. . .

http://www.cnn.com

[Locutus]

Also from CNN's headline:


NTSB: Pilots called for 'go around'

• 
      At 7 seconds before impact, crew called to increase speed
•     At 4 seconds, crew got stall warning
•     At 1.5 seconds, crew called for 'go around'

At 4 seconds, the crew got a stall warning.

The minimum V(ref) for the Boeing triple-7 is 113 kts in a landing configuration.  The speeds go up from there depending on weight, but that's the absolute minimum.  He was below that at 109 kts, and well below it at the 85 kts when he apparently applied power and tried to climb.  It would appear to me that the aircraft was stalling because it was going too slow, the gear clips the seawall because of it, and the rest is history.

But we'll have to wait for the NTSB. 

 

[Locutus]

(CNN) -- The cockpit voice recorder of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 appears to show that the pilots tried to abort the landing just 1.5 seconds before it crashed at San Francisco International Airport, the National Transportation Safety Board chairman said Sunday.

The pilots appear to have increased speed 7 seconds before impact, and they then "called to initiate a go-around 1.5 seconds to impact," Deborah Hersman said.

The NTSB's preliminary assessment of the plane's cockpit and flight data recorders show the flight was coming in too slow and too low. But when asked if pilot error was to blame, Hersman said the crash landing was still under investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/07/us/plane-crash-main/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Locutus]

The crash may still be under investigation, and will be for some time, but it's going to end up being pilot error like I said in my very first post on this subject. 

[Palehorse]

The crash may still be under investigation, and will be for some time, but it's going to end up being pilot error like I said in my very first post on this subject.

Yep. No doubt in my mind about it. 

[Locutus]

Did you see where the medical examiner is now investigating into whether a fire truck may have run over one of the Chinese girls that died?  It would suck to survive a plane crash, be laying on the ground, and then be killed by a responding fire truck. 

[Palehorse]

Did you see where the medical examiner is now investigating into whether a fire truck may have run over one of the Chinese girls that died?  It would suck to survive a plane crash, be laying on the ground, and then be killed by a responding fire truck.

No. Holy hell!

[Palehorse]

. . .The pilot sitting in the captain's seat of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 was identified as Lee Kang-gook, Choi Jeong-ho, the head of the South Korea's Aviation Policy Bureau, said Sunday. Lee had 43 hours of experience flying the B777-200, he said.
--South Korean and U.S. investigators will jointly question Lee Kang-gook, who was sitting in the captain's seat of Asiana Flight 214 on Monday, Choi Jeong-ho, the head of South Korean's Aviation Policy Bureau, said Sunday. They will also question Lee Jeong-min, who was sitting in the co-pilot's seat, he said.. . .