The HCRA

[Exterminator]

Oh holy hell. You two are ridiculous! 

It's like trying to convince a two year old that standing on the edge of a chair is dangerous. 

Yep, the health care bill sought to stop predatory practices already in use by the insurance industry and these two clowns actually seem to support allowing that to continue.  Of course, it couldn't be about racially motivated hatred or anything like that...

[Henry Hawk]

Oh holy hell. You two are ridiculous! 

Why is it so difficult for you to admit, that he LIED?  He did it, even MSMNC is convinced he did.  There really isn't even a good argument against it.  He flat out lied.

[me]

Yep, the health care bill sought to stop predatory practices already in use by the insurance industry and these two clowns actually seem to support allowing that to continue.  Of course, it couldn't be about racially motivated hatred or anything like that...

In case you hadn't heard insurance rates are now soaring and the deductibles are increasing not to mention the fact a lot of people can't keep their preferred doctors or hospitals because they aren't part of the "network".   If you like your HCP or if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor and you can keep your healthcare plan....Not so in a lot of cases.  He lied period.

[Exterminator]

In case you hadn't heard insurance rates are now soaring and the deductibles are increasing...

Lies.  Just because it shows up in your email doesn't make it true.  If insurance companies are taking advantage of the situation and using Obamacare as their excuse to continue doing what they were doing for years before Obamacare existed anyway, you can thank the Republicans for the changes to the original bill that gave them the opportunity to do so.  Conservatives did this; fucking own it.

[me]

Lies.  Just because it shows up in your email doesn't make it true.  If insurance companies are taking advantage of the situation and using Obamacare as their excuse to continue doing what they were doing for years before Obamacare existed anyway, you can thank the Republicans for the changes to the original bill that gave them the opportunity to do so.  Conservatives did this; fucking own it.

Show me the changes that allow that.  Did you read the entire bill as it was written?  If you say you did you're a liar because we never got to see the entire bill and you'd still be reading unless you took a course in super speed reading.  Remember Pelosi's statement, "We need to pass it to find out what's in it?"  Well, now we're finding out.  He didn't even help write it so he probably didn't know what was in it either.

[Palehorse]

In case you hadn't heard insurance rates are now soaring and the deductibles are increasing not to mention the fact a lot of people can't keep their preferred doctors or hospitals because they aren't part of the "network".   If you like your HCP or if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor and you can keep your healthcare plan....Not so in a lot of cases.  He lied period.

Seems you haven't been paying attention for at least the last 7 years or so.

I've been screaming about the cost of healthcare for nearly a decade; well before the HCRA was ever thought of, much less the POTUS being elected into office for his first term.

Anybody who thinks this is something new hasn't been paying attention. I am paying over 5k a year in premiums and am carrying a 4k deductible; and then they will only pay 80% of the charges. The first 4k of expenses each and every year come straight out of my pocket.  Been that way for almost 3 years. Beofre that I was dealing with 30-50% premium increases EVERY year.

The only lying being done is by those members of congress responsible for defanging the HCRA in exchange for heavy contributions to their campaigns and under the table pay offs.

[me]

You keep right on believing that if you want.  Like Pelosi said, we are now finding out what's in the bill and most of it isn't good.  You didn't read the fine print because it wasn't put out there to be read.  We are going to end up with substandard care with who knows what kind of doctor before this is all over. 
   

Seems you haven't been paying attention for at least the last 7 years or so.

I've been screaming about the cost of healthcare for nearly a decade; well before the HCRA was ever thought of, much less the POTUS being elected into office for his first term.

Anybody who thinks this is something new hasn't been paying attention. I am paying over 5k a year in premiums and am carrying a 4k deductible; and then they will only pay 80% of the charges. The first 4k of expenses each and every year come straight out of my pocket.  Been that way for almost 3 years. Beofre that I was dealing with 30-50% premium increases EVERY year.

The only lying being done is by those members of congress responsible for defanging the HCRA in exchange for heavy contributions to their campaigns and under the table pay offs.

[Henry Hawk]

A Manhattan Institute analysis found that, on average, the cheapest plan offered in a given state, under Obamacare, will be 99 percent more expensive for men, and 62 percent more expensive for women, than the cheapest plan offered under the old system. And those disparities are even wider for healthy people.

That raises an obvious question. If 50 million people are uninsured today, mainly because insurance is too expensive, why is it better to make coverage even costlier?

[Palehorse]

. . .
That raises an obvious question. If 50 million people are uninsured today, mainly because insurance is too expensive, why is it better to make coverage even costlier?

Again, defanging the HCRA is the root cause here, and we all know who is to blame for that.

Their (the insurance companies) theory is that since the government is subsidizing the premiums for the poor and uninsured, its "free money". And they've been raping the working stiffs for decades now, so why not continue?

You keep right on believing that if you want. . . 
   

Thanks. I will. Because it is the absolute truth.

[me]

Again, defanging the HCRA is the root cause here, and we all know who is to blame for that.

Their (the insurance companies) theory is that since the government is subsidizing the premiums for the poor and uninsured, its "free money". And they've been raping the working stiffs for decades now, so why not continue?

Thanks. I will. Because it is the absolute truth.

Free money?????  What do you think they use to pay claims with?  If a person is paying, as an example, $250pr month for insurance with drug coverage and a $20 copay and they're on a drug, or drugs, which cost $400pr month the insurance is paying out more than they are taking in for that person even with the copay.  Now put that on a higher scale for thousands of people and then do the math.  Yes, I realize there are people who have insurance who either don't use it or use it very little like me but they are rare.  Most people with insurance go to the Dr. for every little sniffle just because they can.  Then there are the Dr.'s who scam the insurance companies for thousands of dollars.  All you keep referring to is the money the insurance companies take in start thinking about the money they pay out too. 

[Palehorse]

Free money?????  What do you think they use to pay claims with?  If a person is paying, as an example, $250pr month for insurance with drug coverage and a $20 copay and they're on a drug, or drugs, which cost $400pr month the insurance is paying out more than they are taking in for that person even with the copay.  Now put that on a higher scale for thousands of people and then do the math.  Yes, I realize there are people who have insurance who either don't use it or use it very little like me but they are rare.  Most people with insurance go to the Dr. for every little sniffle just because they can.  Then there are the Dr.'s who scam the insurance companies for thousands of dollars.  All you keep referring to is the money the insurance companies take in start thinking about the money they pay out too.

You really need to update your hard drive and processor, because you are woefully misinformed.

Do you realize just how much employers pay in premiums? Do you realize that virtually ALL of the large corporations are self-insured and merely use the insurance companies as a third party administrator? (And as of the last couple of decades most of the jobs worth having pay-wise are for large corporations). Yet, those premiums at these same large corporations are doubling, tripling, and more; and have been for over 2 decades!

Moreover, who is the one that started bitching in this topic within the last 24 hours about healthcare premiums? Hum?  (You'd argue with the undertaker that was preparing you for burial if you could; convinced you were still alive despite the absence of brain activity.)

Finally, you do realize that the profit levels of these same health insurance companies are only surpassed by those of the oil industry? 

Yes, they are profiting on the sick and infirm. Pure and simple. 

[me]

You really need to update your hard drive and processor, because you are woefully misinformed.

Do you realize just how much employers pay in premiums? Do you realize that virtually ALL of the large corporations are self-insured and merely use the insurance companies as a third party administrator? (And as of the last couple of decades most of the jobs worth having pay-wise are for large corporations). Yet, those premiums at these same large corporations are doubling, tripling, and more; and have been for over 2 decades!

Moreover, who is the one that started bitching in this topic within the last 24 hours about healthcare premiums? Hum?  (You'd argue with the undertaker that was preparing you for burial if you could; convinced you were still alive despite the absence of brain activity.)

Finally, you do realize that the profit levels of these same health insurance companies are only surpassed by those of the oil industry? 

Yes, they are profiting on the sick and infirm. Pure and simple. 

Both insurance companies and unions are extortionists but the union pays out no money they just collect it and run interference.  But so what if insurance companies make a profit are they in it as non-profit organizations?  Isn't the government doing the same thing because you know we're going to end up with government healthcare in the long haul because the government is going to start putting more and more regulations on insurance companies until it drives them out of business.  Of course there is always the concierge doctors that only the rich will be able to afford while the rest of us will have the clinic type care because of the shortage of good doctors who want to work for nothing.

[Palehorse]

Both insurance companies and unions are extortionists but the union pays out no money they just collect it and run interference.  But so what if insurance companies make a profit are they in it as non-profit organizations?  Isn't the government doing the same thing because you know we're going to end up with government healthcare in the long haul because the government is going to start putting more and more regulations on insurance companies until it drives them out of business.  Of course there is always the concierge doctors that only the rich will be able to afford while the rest of us will have the clinic type care because of the shortage of good doctors who want to work for nothing.

Holy hell. You're just full of innuendo, conjecture, and supposition; nowhere within is the truth to be found! 

You act as if the "great white hope" is dead. . . Oh wait. . . I guess in your view it is! 

[Palehorse]

Both insurance companies and unions are extortionists but the union pays out no money they just collect it and run interference.  But so what if insurance companies make a profit are they in it as non-profit organizations?  Isn't the government doing the same thing because you know we're going to end up with government healthcare in the long haul because the government is going to start putting more and more regulations on insurance companies until it drives them out of business.  Of course there is always the concierge doctors that only the rich will be able to afford while the rest of us will have the clinic type care because of the shortage of good doctors who want to work for nothing.

On another front; What is "reasonable profit" when it comes to the well being, longevity, and quality of life as they pertain to a human being?

When you look at the profit levels of the medical insurance companies, they are just below those of the oil industry; reaching record levels in consecutive quarters over the past decade or so.

Since its $20.8 billion merger deal in late 2004, Anthem Blue Cross and Wellpoint have grown into the nation's biggest insurer,  now providing coverage to 35 million people. Even with the nation mired in a deep recession,  Anthem Blue Cross has not hesitated to continue its pattern of hiking rates for customers. Within the past six months, 80% of holders of individual policies have received notice of premium increases up to 39%.

At the same time, of course, there is little promise of better coverage of medical bills. In California, the average claim-rejection rate is 1 in 5. In particular, the insurer has become known for routinely canceling individual policies of pregnant women and patients who are chronically ill. This led the state of California to fine Anthem Blue Cross $1 million.

Of course, California's experience was not an isolated incident.  In 2008, Nevada reached a $1 million settlement with Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield for overcharging policyholders. Kentucky officials ordered Anthem Health Plans to refund $23.7 million to 81,000 seniors and disabled patients over inaccurate Medicare claims payments. Colorado obtained a $5.7 million refund for its Anthem Blue Cross customers.

Doctors have filed suit against the corporation, with 800,000 saying they were denied rightful payment for services they provided for policyholders. And the federal government barred Anthem Blue Cross and Wellpoint from participating in a Medicare program after the corporations denied medicines to seniors.

Two years ago,  Blue Cross sent $950 million to its parent company WellPoint's corporate headquarters in Indiana. Routinely Blue Cross PPO has posted profits levels on individual plans of 20% or more of all revenue. Within the all PPO plans for Blue Cross they have posted profit margins of 18% consistently. All while imposing premium increases of 17 to  26% and more upon its insured.

In 2010 in Illinois alone, the company raked in 1.1 billion of pure profit,  doubling the previous years profit, and it has been going steadily higher since 1996, when Blue Cross was acquired by Wellpoint and went from a not for profit entity to a for profit entity. Multiply that by 50 states and well, you get the picture. BILLIONS of dollars in profits on the backs of the sick and infirm.    And it is a never ending cycle of premium increases.



Again, they cry poor when in reality they are as rich as the oil companies ; and just as influential. 

Wellpoints 2012 revenue? $61.7 billion

[me]

On another front; What is "reasonable profit" when it comes to the well being, longevity, and quality of life as they pertain to a human being?

When you look at the profit levels of the medical insurance companies, they are just below those of the oil industry; reaching record levels in consecutive quarters over the past decade or so.

Since its $20.8 billion merger deal in late 2004, Anthem Blue Cross and Wellpoint have grown into the nation's biggest insurer,  now providing coverage to 35 million people. Even with the nation mired in a deep recession,  Anthem Blue Cross has not hesitated to continue its pattern of hiking rates for customers. Within the past six months, 80% of holders of individual policies have received notice of premium increases up to 39%.

At the same time, of course, there is little promise of better coverage of medical bills. In California, the average claim-rejection rate is 1 in 5. In particular, the insurer has become known for routinely canceling individual policies of pregnant women and patients who are chronically ill. This led the state of California to fine Anthem Blue Cross $1 million.

Of course, California's experience was not an isolated incident.  In 2008, Nevada reached a $1 million settlement with Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield for overcharging policyholders. Kentucky officials ordered Anthem Health Plans to refund $23.7 million to 81,000 seniors and disabled patients over inaccurate Medicare claims payments. Colorado obtained a $5.7 million refund for its Anthem Blue Cross customers.

Doctors have filed suit against the corporation, with 800,000 saying they were denied rightful payment for services they provided for policyholders. And the federal government barred Anthem Blue Cross and Wellpoint from participating in a Medicare program after the corporations denied medicines to seniors.

Two years ago,  Blue Cross sent $950 million to its parent company WellPoint's corporate headquarters in Indiana. Routinely Blue Cross PPO has posted profits levels on individual plans of 20% or more of all revenue. Within the all PPO plans for Blue Cross they have posted profit margins of 18% consistently. All while imposing premium increases of 17 to  26% and more upon its insured.

In 2010 in Illinois alone, the company raked in 1.1 billion of pure profit,  doubling the previous years profit, and it has been going steadily higher since 1996, when Blue Cross was acquired by Wellpoint and went from a not for profit entity to a for profit entity. Multiply that by 50 states and well, you get the picture. BILLIONS of dollars in profits on the backs of the sick and infirm.    And it is a never ending cycle of premium increases.



Again, they cry poor when in reality they are as rich as the oil companies ; and just as influential. 

Wellpoints 2012 revenue? $61.7 billion

You're talking about a company as though it were a person.  The "company" has to maintain a certain amount of back up money which can be taken out of that "pure profit" because it isn't actually profit.  Do you own any stock?  If so would you invest in a company that wasn't profitable?  Get out of that box you're in and think.