Random Comments

[The Troll]

Just as I thought, you have no clue.  Has nothing to do with anyone being brought to America and is entirely different than slavery and has nothing to do with factory owners because there were no "factories".

  Well since I don't and won't watch Glenn Beck, I wouldn't know what he was talking about.  But about indentured servants I know it happened to a large, large number of white children here in American and all that can be said about it, IT WAS SLAVERY.

  Ding Dong, there was factory in the 1700s.  Textile industry (factories) who use child labor, there was coal mining, child labor, steel forging (factories) and many more industries.  What a dummie.

  There has always been slavery in America, from the Mayflower to today.  I not for sure, but I think there were indentured servants on the Mayflower.   Slavery for white and black for all races since the begining of time and if the Republican get in power forever.

[me]

Really? Did you even bother to fact check it?

Here's one reference:

The legend has been repeated endlessly that the first blacks in Virginia were "indentured servants," but there is no hint of this in the records. The legend grew up because the word slave did not appear in Virginia records until 1656, and statutes defining the status of blacks began to appear casually in the 1660s. The inference was then made that blacks called servants must have had approximately the same status as white indentured servants. Such reasoning failed to notice that Englishmen, in the early seventeenth century, used the work servant when they meant slave in our sense, and, indeed, white Southerners invariably used servant until 1865 and beyond. Slave entered the Southern vocabulary as a technical word in trade, law and politics. (Robert McColley in Dictionary of Afro-American Slavery, Edited by Randall M. Miller and John David Smith, Greenwood Press, 1988 pp 281)

http://innercity.org/holt/slavechron.html

Here's another:

In the North, farming was not as important to the economy as it was in the South. Black slaves therefore worked in a wider variety of jobs. They provided skilled and unskilled labor in homes, ships, factories and shipyards.

http://library.thinkquest.org/2667/Tour.htm

Now you try one. Go on, you can do it. It's not hard.

Yes, I did misspeak in a sense but here is the rest of the story.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr3.html

[Palehorse]

 

[LOsborne]

Yes, I did misspeak in a sense but here is the rest of the story.

"In a sense?"  You said, Has nothing to do with anyone being brought to America and is entirely different than slavery and has nothing to do with factory owners because there were no "factories". Both your source and mine state indentured servitude for "non-Christians" was identical to slavery, except that in some cases, the bondage had an expiration date ... at least for the first fifty or so years of its existence -- and then that difference also disappeared. Far from having nothing to do "with anyone being brought to America," those immigrants are the only people relevant to the discussion, and there were, in fact, factories. In what sense did you not misspeak?

[me]

"In a sense?"  You said, Has nothing to do with anyone being brought to America and is entirely different than slavery and has nothing to do with factory owners because there were no "factories". Both your source and mine state indentured servitude for "non-Christians" was identical to slavery, except that in some cases, the bondage had an expiration date ... at least for the first fifty or so years of its existence -- and then that difference also disappeared. Far from having nothing to do "with anyone being brought to America," those immigrants are the only people relevant to the discussion, and there were, in fact, factories. In what sense did you not misspeak?

They did not bring people here to serve as indentured servants it was people who were already here and who owed a debt.  Also some who owned indentured servants had been slaves themselves at one time. 

[Bo D]

They did not bring people here to serve as indentured servants it was people who were already here and who owed a debt.  Also some who owned indentured servants had been slaves themselves at one time.

What planet are you from?

"Indentures were mortgages on the future, a promise made to work for the person who paid one's freight and guaranteed passage to the New World. The written contract, if it existed, was a legally enforceable agreement. Its terms usually meant a period of service—typically four to seven years—in exchange for the cost of transportation, sustenance, and shelter. By one estimate, three-fourths of the white population were dependent laborers when they arrived in the New World. But for a variety of reasons, many sailed without a contract in hand and took their chances on working out an agreement once they arrived in Virginia or Maryland. If they found no suitable employer, the ship's captain could sell them to anyone he pleased. "
http://www.folger.edu/html/folger_institute/jamestown/c_shifflet.htm

[followsthewolf]

Thanks, Olias. Saved me the trouble.

Hey, "me", you ought to enroll in a REAL history course or two, so you can tell the difference between the fantasy history you were taught in most high schools and the real world.

Oh, I forgot, "life experience" is the best teacher.

As if none of the rest of us has been through any of that, either.

Your exclusive storehouse of knowledge.

[LOsborne]

They did not bring people here to serve as indentured servants ...

Yes, they did!

Who's got that frickin' doobie?

[me]

Yes, they did!

Who's got that frickin' doobie?

Could I possibly be misreading this then?  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/index.html

[LOsborne]

Could I possibly be misreading this then?  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/index.html

What? The index?

Try this: II. C. second entry in your index

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1i3046.html

Q: How did Europeans handle the question of labor in the New World?
A: Finding labor someplace. And where's labor to be found? Well, labor is to be found among the unemployed of English cities and other places. Those persons become indentured servants, working for two to seven years on average. Native Americans are enslaved. That is they're captured and forced to work for indefinite periods. And then, of course Africans are imported to work for indefinite periods.

[followsthewolf]

Could I possibly be misreading this then?  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/index.html

Well, did you go back and reread the WHOLE thing, or did you just skim it, because it contained boring facts?

Did you misread it?

[me]

The way I read it the indentured slavery started here with people who were already here and only later were they brought here for that express purpose. 

[LOsborne]

The way I read it the indentured slavery started here with people who were already here and only later were they brought here for that express purpose. 

You are wrong.  From your own source:

Well, labor is to be found among the unemployed of English cities and other places.

There were NO English cities in North America in the seventeenth century. The English cities were in England. And there were no unemployed among the colonists in North America. Geez, me, use your head.

Or just re-read Olias's kindly supplied definition of indenture:

Indentures were mortgages on the future, a promise made to work for the person who paid one's freight and guaranteed passage to the New World.

Does Santa need to bring you a dictionary?

[me]

Thomas Davis on how Europeans handle labor in the New World    Resource Bank Contents

        Q: How did Europeans handle the question of labor in the New World?
        Thomas Davis

           A: Finding labor someplace. And where's labor to be found? Well, labor is to be found among the unemployed of *English cities and other places. Those persons become indentured servants, working for two to seven years on average. Native Americans are enslaved. That is they're captured and forced to work for indefinite periods. **[And then, of course Africans are imported to work for indefinite periods.] The colonial period is a period where labor is scarce...in the context of opportunities that are available. People see vast lands to be cultivated, they see vast lands to be developed, natural resources, huge timber stands, teeming rivers. Who is going to pull in that wealth? And labor is the absolute key to that.

*See below
**And then to me means after the fact.

Modern Voices
Thomas Davis on the fears about the Spanish and Native Americans    Resource Bank Contents

        Q: There's a real fear that external forces could take advantage of that population, Spanish as well as Native Americans. Talk a bit about the fears that are part of that economy.
        Thomas Davis

           A: The Americas of the late sixteenth, seventeenth, eighteenth century are a place that's hotly contested. The Europeans are vying among themselves for hegemony over particular areas. That struggle and strife is going to go on, really until the time of the American Revolution. One of the things that it does is to make life in the colonies for the various populations very unsettled, very insecure. The English colonists who are living in South Carolina are fearful of the Spanish in Florida. They think that the Spanish are going to encroach upon them and take them over. And after all, the English have come and encroached on the Spanish to begin with. So there is this continual ebb and flow. People in the colonies are very watchful of what's going on in Europe, because what's going on in Europe very directly affects them

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1i3047.html  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1i3046.html

[LOsborne]

**And then to me means after the fact.

What fact? And when do you consider to be "after"? The first slaves were brought to America in 1526.

Slaves entered the American continent in 1526 for the first time when first effort to establish a colony was carried out. However the colony was disappeared soon but slaves remained there and had taken roots in American soil. Then in 1619, a formal process for the trade of slavery was initiated when a Dutch Vessel sold twenty one Negro slaves to the colony of James Town, Virginia. In 1649 there were 200 slaves and later their number was increased up to 2000 only in Virginia.

http://www.dirbull.com/articles/advent-of-slavery-in-unites-states-48.htm

By the way, your highlighted line says English "colonists," not English cities. Nobody disputes there were colonists who were English. A colony is not a city. London, Manchester, Birmingham, and so forth, are cities, where one might have found unemployed people. All the colonists had jobs.