Trayvon Martin

[Locutus]

The judge has ruled that the jury can consider manslaughter if they can't convict on the second degree murder charge.

[Palehorse]

So are you saying I can no longer mention the Black Panthers in a derogatory way or at all because they happen to be black?  That is what prompted your remark after all.

Nope. Wrong again. . .

It is the whole of your responses throughout this forum that is the cornerstone of my position. It isn't just the "Black Panthers" you are currently trying to utilize as a lever. . .

[me]

Nope. Wrong again. . .

It is the whole of your responses throughout this forum that is the cornerstone of my position. It isn't just the "Black Panthers" you are currently trying to utilize as a lever. . .

Hum, liberals can say nasty things about black conservatives and that's ok but if a conservative disagrees with a black liberal they are racist, referring to Cain, Rice, Powell, (before he started liking Obama), Clarence, and other black politicians here. Seems to be something wrong with that picture to me.

[Palehorse]

Hum, liberals can say nasty things about black conservatives and that's ok but if a conservative disagrees with a black liberal they are racist, referring to Cain, Rice, Powell, (before he started liking Obama), Clarence, and other black politicians here. Seems to be something wrong with that picture to me.

How many ways does it have to be explained to you? It isn't just one or two statements, but rather the conglomeration of all of the statements and positions you assume that condemn you and provide others with the perception of you being a racist!

[me]

How many ways does it have to be explained to you? It isn't just one or two statements, but rather the conglomeration of all of the statements and positions you assume that condemn you and provide others with the perception of you being a racist!

And how many times do I have to explain to you disagreeing with someone is not being racist it is just disagreeing with someone.  Liberals are the ones making it about color to browbeat conservatives into submission and keep their flock in line and you're all falling for it hook line and sinker.  Open your eyes for pete's sake.  If a black conservative runs for president you'd better not disagree with him or bad mouth his policies because that would make you a racist. 

[Henry Hawk]

Here is an opinion piece by Juan Williams that sums up this case - for me.  I like the way he looks at it.

'Crackers,' a 'teenage mammy' -- the sorry truth about race and Zimmerman trial


"White Hispanics," "Creepy-Ass Crackers," "Teenage Mammies," and "Suspicious  A--holes who always get away" -- that is the vernacular of the George Zimmerman  trial.

George Zimmerman faces life in jail as a jury considers second-degree murder  charges against him for killing 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. But thanks to the  media he is already sentenced to life in the American public's mind as a  racist.

NBC edited a tape of Zimmerman's call to police as he was following Martin to  make him appear to be focused on Martin's race.

The New York Times has referred to him in unique racial terms as a "white  Hispanic." The terminology was necessary to have the story fit into a well-worn  news narrative throughout American history from the Scottsboro Boys to Emmett  Till to Rodney King – the black victim of white racism. Hispanic people can be  as racist as black or white people in a country with a deep history of racism.  But, apparently for the Times, Zimmerman's whiteness was important. It fit their  good versus evil tale of a white racist killing an innocent black man.


In June, before the trial started, a CNN poll asked Americans if they  believed the murder charges against Zimmerman were true or false. Without any  courtroom testimony or evidence, but based on the racially charged media  coverage, 62 percent of Americans said the charges were "probably true" or "definitely true."

My bet is that poll would have different results today. The trial has failed  to prove Zimmerman acted with a "depraved mind" – as required for a  second-degree murder conviction – or even with a racist mind. He certainly  killed Martin. And the jury may decide he is guilty of second-degree murder or  manslaughter. But what we heard in the courtroom fits with an FBI report that  found race was not a factor in Martin's shooting death.

The strong public judgment of Zimmerman's guilt in the poll reflected a  racially weighted media telling of the story. Photos of a bloodied Zimmerman  after the incident, Zimmerman's claim of self-defense and the police decision  not to charge Zimmerman all got a dismissive glance from the press and  contributed to public assumptions about Zimmerman before the trial.

Liberal and conservative news TV and radio have played to the racial theme,  too. The left, notably Rev. Al Sharpton, have made the case a crusade for racial  justice. The right-wing media, especially talk radio, has responded by making  Zimmerman a hero. In fact, Zimmerman's lawyer, Mark O'Mara, created an online  site that attracted more than $145,000 from people who somehow made Zimmerman  into their champion, possibly their great white hero.

The national focus on race in this case hit a high point when Rachel Jeantel,  a 19-year-old student, testified that she spoke with Martin just before he was  killed. Jeantel, Martin's friend, told the court that Martin complained that a "man was just watching him." And Martin described this man, Jeantel said, as a "creepy, white, excuse my language, cracker --- creepy-ass cracker."

Jeantel's testimony set off a stupid debate, requiring total ignorance of  slavery and legal segregation, about the equivalence of blacks using "cracker" to describe whites, versus whites using the word "******" to describe  blacks.

And Jeantel's physical appearance, as a dark, heavyset young woman, speaking  with a Southern dialect as she gave the lawyers a lot of attitude with her curt  answers, contributed to the racial view of the case.

She became the "teenage mammy," in the words of a sociology professor quoted  in the New York Times, caricatured for "not being smart and using these racial  slurs and not being the best witness."

And now the media, especially the conservative outlets, are fixated on the  possibility of race riots if Zimmerman is acquitted. Meanwhile, Twitter and  other social media sites are full of threats from angry black people to kill  Zimmerman if he is not held accountable by a jury for killing Martin.

Martin, the 17-year-old, is dead. But he has not escaped the racial slander  attached to this case. Zimmerman's backers note that Martin had smoked marijuana – as if that is unusual among American teenagers. They seem delighted to find  online messages in which he took on a rapper, street-thug persona and posed as a  tough guy.

These are all caricatures of two real people caught in a tragedy.

Zimmerman should have listened to the 911 emergency dispatch operator who  told him to stop following Martin.

Why did he have a gun if he was simply part of a neighborhood watch  program?

He had no basis to suspect Martin of any crime. So why does he describe  Martin as "suspicious" to police?

Why does he apparently lump Martin with people he describes as "these a--holes, they always get away."

Why didn't Martin just walk away from Zimmerman?

But Martin is dead. He can't speak for himself and get beyond the box of  racial stereotypes the media built for him.

Zimmerman is alive. He has chosen not to speak at his trial, and although the  prosecution played an interview he did with Fox News' Sean Hannity, it is still  no match for skipping an ideal chance to tell his story when everyone is  listening in the courtroom and on television.

Now, no matter what the verdict, he is going to carry his box of racial  stereotypes around until his death. His identity will always be as a want-to-be  cop who trailed a black kid who was not doing anything wrong, got in a fight  with him, pulled out a gun and killed him.

Ultimately, it is the job of the media to give straight, objective coverage  of any story.

Whatever the final verdict on Zimmerman, the media is clearly guilty of  playing on the most primitive racial divisions in our society to fuel racial  animosity and boost ratings.

There are no winners here.

[Locutus]

I don't think the state of Florida has made the case for second degree murder.   He's going to skate on that charge.   That said, he's already proven that he's a liar (remember the bond amount debacle), and has some culpability in what happened by setting his foot outside his vehicle contrary to what the 911 operator instructed him to do.

[Henry Hawk]

I don't think the state of Florida has made the case for second degree murder.   He's going to skate on that charge.   That said, he's already proven that he's a liar (remember the bond amount debacle), and has some culpability in what happened by setting his foot outside his vehicle contrary to what the 911 operator instructed him to do.

Lying does not equal guilt.  People lie all the time.  He was being threatened by the Black Panthers, Al Sharpton and the media had it out for him.....so MAYBE he did lie.  Maybe he DID make some stupid mistakes.  That is NOT a crime, in this case.  That does NOT mean he MURDERED someone.

Following someone is NOT a crime.  Should he have stayed in his car? 

Put yourself in HIS shoes.  Your neighborhood has been burglarized several times.  He see's someone suspicious.  He follows them, calls 911.  He does NOT want him to get away.  So he keeps his eye on him, until police get there.  THAT is NOT a CRIME.

In hind-sight, I bet he wishes he had not experienced that whole evening.  AT the most, he made a stupid mistake. 

Remember too, that Martin ATTACKED him.  That has been determined by experts. Evidence supports his injuries as he claimed (by an expert).

with all of that said,

I think it all SUCKS.  Martin is DEAD.  Zimmerman perhaps could have avoided it, but has to live with it for the rest of his life.



How abut NBC "lying" when they broadcast a "fixed" 911 audio making him sound "racist"

[Henry Hawk]

The media isn't doing anyone any favors by speculating as to the possibility of riots either. 

I agree....    Now it is like they are "expected" to do so.

From the AP:
Police and city leaders in Florida say they have taken precautionary steps for the possibility of mass protests or even civil unrest if George Zimmerman is acquitted in the killing of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin, particularly in African-American neighborhoods where passions run strongest over the case.

[Palehorse]

This is all CNN is airing while court is in session. 

19 firefighters cooked up in AZ and they are focusing on the Zimmerman trial exclusively. 

As for that, it really appears like the "eyewitness" testimony is inconclusive at best; lending credibility to the fact that eyewitness testimony is among the worst evidence to any incident.

IMHO the prosecution is bungling things a bit thus far, and the defense is doing the same. Minus any bombshell evidentiary articles being presented by either side, the best the prosecution is going to obtain is manslaughter on Zimmerman; and that may be tenuous at this point.

I stand by this.

[Locutus]

I stand by this.

Pretty spot on.

[Locutus]

I agree....    Now it is like they are "expected" to do so.

From the AP:
Police and city leaders in Florida say they have taken precautionary steps for the possibility of mass protests or even civil unrest if George Zimmerman is acquitted in the killing of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin, particularly in African-American neighborhoods where passions run strongest over the case.

The jury will get the case tomorrow.  We shall see.

[Henry Hawk]

The jury will get the case tomorrow.  We shall see.

I think it is going to be interesting to say the least....

[Locutus]

I think it is going to be interesting to say the least....

It will be.  We should start an over/under pool on how long the deliberations last. 

I don't think it's going to take very long, although it'll be longer since they can now consider manslaughter.

[Anne]

I wonder if any of the jury will speak after the trial. It will be interesting to hear what their train of thought was in the jury room.