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Union Thugs and huffPo

Started by Nighthawk, March 18, 2011, 07:27:46 PM

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The Troll

Quote from: Nighthawk on March 18, 2011, 07:27:46 PM
It seems that the Newspaper Writers Guild has jumped on the bandwagon with a group called Visual Art Source who decided to boycott/picket HuffPo.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/17/newspaper-guild-huffington-post-strike/

Visual Arts Source is a group of 50 people who contributed content to HuffPo. After HuffPo was sold to AOL for $315 million these guys decided to try and grad what they think is their share of the goods so they started a 'strike'. Now the newspaper Writers Guild has joined in and is calling on all unpaid contributers to join the 'electronic strike'. Looks as though they want their piece of the pie too.

First off I think it is rather ironic that the owner of a liberal blog sells out for $315 million, pockets the cash and refuses to share with her liberal friends/contributers. Or maybe it is even more ironic that these liberal bloggers were fine posing their work for free until HuffPo was sold and they now want 'their' money too?

My second thought is, what business is it of this/these unions if Huffington pays her contributers or not? These bloggers knew that they would not be paid for what they contributed yet they kept writing. This is none of the union's business and them trying to force her to pay these bloggers is just plain thuggery.

So, if these thugs get their way does that mean that if I write something on a blog or website I can then demand payment from the website's owner?

  Squawk, I want to know why you are always calling union leaders, goons, bullies and thugs.  I know for a fact the men have and will work for the betterment of their people.  I really think you should look in the mirror at your self.  You are always trying to bully the union workers to work for less and for them not to stand up for their rights.

  Talk about your thugs, bullies and goons.  How about Chainsaw Al Dunlap, Andrew Carnegie, Pinkerton Detective Agency and all of the coal mine owners.  They have kill over 1000 people bullying whose people with their bullies and thugs.  If you want some more business owner bullies, I'll name some more for you.

   UAW brat, name me one thing that a business or corporation gave their workers that really gave them the middle class life.  They want to work their workers to the bone and at the least amount of money and benefits.  They would really like slavery.  That is why they outsourced the American workers jobs.

  What you really need is some of your own medicine.   Oh yes Mr. Teabagger, where is all of the jobs Boner promised us.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:   :biggrin:

  By the way, you have never told us what you dad, if he is still with us, what does he think of his UAW pension, drug, eye glasses, hearing aid, lawyer service union benefits.  Also Democratic Medicare and Social Security.  I'll bet it's more than you would even think about giving one of your employees.   :biggrin: :yes:  You talked about the money he lose during a strike.  Do you think he made it up in benefits since he been retired.  :yes: :wink: :smile:  I'll bet you dad never said to you is, "Son can I borrow a little money from you, I'm broke.  :yes:


Nighthawk

Quote from: The Troll on March 20, 2011, 09:13:43 PM
  Squawk, I want to know why you are always calling union leaders, goons, bullies and thugs.  I know for a fact the men have and will work for the betterment of their people.  I really think you should look in the mirror at your self.  You are always trying to bully the union workers to work for less and for them not to stand up for their rights.

  Talk about your thugs, bullies and goons.  How about Chainsaw Al Dunlap, Andrew Carnegie, Pinkerton Detective Agency and all of the coal mine owners.  They have kill over 1000 people bullying whose people with their bullies and thugs.  If you want some more business owner bullies, I'll name some more for you.

   UAW brat, name me one thing that a business or corporation gave their workers that really gave them the middle class life.  They want to work their workers to the bone and at the least amount of money and benefits.  They would really like slavery.  That is why they outsourced the American workers jobs.

  What you really need is some of your own medicine.   Oh yes Mr. Teabagger, where is all of the jobs Boner promised us.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:   :biggrin:

  By the way, you have never told us what you dad, if he is still with us, what does he think of his UAW pension, drug, eye glasses, hearing aid, lawyer service union benefits.  Also Democratic Medicare and Social Security.  I'll bet it's more than you would even think about giving one of your employees.   :biggrin: :yes:  You talked about the money he lose during a strike.  Do you think he made it up in benefits since he been retired.  :yes: :wink: :smile:  I'll bet you dad never said to you is, "Son can I borrow a little money from you, I'm broke.  :yes:

The unions are thugs simply because they demand more and more from the companies until the company can no longer make a profit and close up shop. What good is that for the workers there??

As for my father, he is no longer with us and never got to enjoy that 'great' pension you keep raving about. In fact, as the man was dying he was in hospice care and I got called into a meeting with the hospital, insurance reps, union reps and GM reps. The insurance decided that they were no longer going to pay for his hospice care. I argued and argued about how long the man paid into the insurance and other things. The wonderful union rep and GM rep said NOTHING. NOTHING AT ALL!!!!

So don't give mt your high brow shit about how good unions are for the working man. The assholes left my father hanging out to dry and didn't lift a finger to help. By the time the man died he had nothing to show for his decades of working for a union shop. Oh wait, I think I still have a UAW pin they gave him. And yes, at the end, I was paying his bills.

The Troll

Quote from: Nighthawk on March 20, 2011, 09:42:43 PM
The unions are thugs simply because they demand more and more from the companies until the company can no longer make a profit and close up shop. What good is that for the workers there??

As for my father, he is no longer with us and never got to enjoy that 'great' pension you keep raving about. In fact, as the man was dying he was in hospice care and I got called into a meeting with the hospital, insurance reps, union reps and GM reps. The insurance decided that they were no longer going to pay for his hospice care. I argued and argued about how long the man paid into the insurance and other things. The wonderful union rep and GM rep said NOTHING. NOTHING AT ALL!!!!

So don't give mt your high brow shit about how good unions are for the working man. The assholes left my father hanging out to dry and didn't lift a finger to help. By the time the man died he had nothing to show for his decades of working for a union shop. Oh wait, I think I still have a UAW pin they gave him. And yes, at the end, I was paying his bills.

  Oh you want to blame the union for not paying for his hospice care.  Well that's one thing the unions didn't get out of the companies.  I never seen hospice care in our union contract.  He could have bought that on his own.  He had the money.  But are you forgetting all that Blue Cross and Blue Shield paid out for him and you.  When my dad dies he had an life insurance policy from GM we didn't even know about.  I have one now from Ford.

  Your father did not work for the UAW, he worked for General Motors Co.  The UAW represented him the best they could.  As you might surmise, the UAW did not get everything they wanted from GM.  But I know for a fact that you dad made more money per hour and had more benefits than any other company or business around your area.  FACT!

  My dad was a GM worker for 42 years and lived to the age of 91.  GM never missed sending him a pension check.  I know as a child Blue Cross and Blue Shield pay for a lot of doctors and surgeons.  But I suppose old "poor mouth" you didn't get a thing out of union benefits.  Right?  As an adult  the Ford contract with the UAW sure paid for a lot of health benefits for my wife, son and me.

  But you being a Teabagger Republican, if the people let you people do what you want to pensions, Social Security, Medicare and many other things the middle class deserve even  you won't have a pot to shit in or a window to throw it out.  :jester: :genius:

The Troll

Quote from: The Troll on March 21, 2011, 11:02:25 AM
  Oh you want to blame the union for not paying for his hospice care.  Well that's one thing the unions didn't get out of the companies.  I never seen hospice care in our union contract.  He could have bought that on his own.  He had the money.  But are you forgetting all that Blue Cross and Blue Shield paid out for him and you.  When my dad dies he had an life insurance policy from GM we didn't even know about.  I have one now from Ford.

  Your father did not work for the UAW, he worked for General Motors Co.  The UAW represented him the best they could.  As you might surmise, the UAW did not get everything they wanted from GM.  But I know for a fact that you dad made more money per hour and had more benefits than any other company or business around your area.  FACT!

  My dad was a GM worker for 42 years and lived to the age of 91.  GM never missed sending him a pension check.  I know as a child Blue Cross and Blue Shield pay for a lot of doctors and surgeons.  But I suppose old "poor mouth" you didn't get a thing out of union benefits.  Right?  As an adult  the Ford contract with the UAW sure paid for a lot of health benefits for my wife, son and me.

  But you being a Teabagger Republican, if the people let you people do what you want to pensions, Social Security, Medicare and many other things the middle class deserve even  you won't have a pot to shit in or a window to throw it out.  :jester: :genius:

  You really tickle me :rotfl:  Out of one side of  your mouth  you say the unions ask for too much.  But the other side says that the unions should had Hospice care for you dad.  Squawk, you speak with a forked tongue.  See what I mean about another Universe.  :thumbsup: :grin2:

Nighthawk

Quote from: The Troll on March 22, 2011, 12:50:30 PM
  You really tickle me :rotfl:  Out of one side of  your mouth  you say the unions ask for too much.  But the other side says that the unions should had Hospice care for you dad.  Squawk, you speak with a forked tongue.  See what I mean about another Universe.  :thumbsup: :grin2:

No moron, I did not expect the union to pay for anything. I expected the insurance to pay for hospice. The same insurance the union 'negotiated' for. the insurance that was paying for it until they decided they didn't want to any more while the union rep sat there and let them do whatever they wanted.

So, between this experience, the two unions I belonged to, the antics of the newspaper writers guild and a lot of other interesting things I have been reading about unions just reinforces my opinion that unions suck and should be illegal.

The Troll

Quote from: Nighthawk on March 22, 2011, 06:41:04 PM
No moron, I did not expect the union to pay for anything. I expected the insurance to pay for hospice. The same insurance the union 'negotiated' for. the insurance that was paying for it until they decided they didn't want to any more while the union rep sat there and let them do whatever they wanted.

So, between this experience, the two unions I belonged to, the antics of the newspaper writers guild and a lot of other interesting things I have been reading about unions just reinforces my opinion that unions suck and should be illegal.

  Well, I know one moron.  He the one who is so blind and selfish.  One who has brain washed himself with a whole lot of bullshit.  But he can dream on and live in another Universe of assholes and morons.   Yes, I know these people and they are hiding a humanbeings and as trustworthy and honest businessmen.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  Oh, the shit run deep in some moron businessmens lives.  These so called asshole businessmen would screw you as a customer in a heartbeat if they had a heart.  :kiss: :kiss: :love:

Nighthawk

Quote from: The Troll on March 22, 2011, 07:11:30 PM
  Well, I know one moron.  He the one who is so blind and selfish.  One who has brain washed himself with a whole lot of bullshit.  But he can dream on and live in another Universe of assholes and morons.   Yes, I know these people and they are hiding a humanbeings and as trustworthy and honest businessmen.  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  Oh, the shit run deep in some moron businessmens lives.  These so called asshole businessmen would screw you as a customer in a heartbeat if they had a heart.  :kiss: :kiss: :love:

You get more incoherent with each post.

The Troll

Quote from: Nighthawk on March 22, 2011, 07:23:03 PM
You get more incoherent with each post.

  Thank you, that coming from a businessman who knows what being a moron is like.  I appreciate it.  :trustme:

Henry Hawk

Okay, this is just a well written opinion piece that I happen to strongly agree with....
I am sharing this to further explain MY position on Unions...Troll, read it with an open mind.


PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNION PENSIONS
The Pew Center on the States recently concluded a study about pension, health care, and other retirement benefits that are promised to current and retired State Government Employees across America. The Pew Study found that American States have obligated themselves to future debts totaling $3.35 trillion to pay these benefits. The rub lies in the fact that these State Governments are short $1 trillion to meet these promises. Local Governments and the Federal Government are in the same predicament.
In 2006, Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels, on his first day in office, rescinded state workers' collective bargaining power. Governor Daniels said: "We have a new privileged class in America. We used to think of government workers as underpaid public servants. Now they are better paid than the people who pay their salaries."
What happened across the country is that politicians created enormous future debts to public employee unions that translated into votes for them at the time, but placed incredible debt burdens on future citizens—bills that would come due long after the original politicians were out of office or even no longer among the living.

A BRIEF HISTORY OF PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS
People who work for the taxpayers—public employees of local, state, or federal governments—were prohibited by law from unionizing throughout the history of the United States.  Public employees were paid less than private sector workers performing similar tasks but had better job security—their employer could not go out of business as private companies can and do.
Robert Wagner, the Democrat Mayor of New York City in 1958, was the first politician to see people who worked for the public as a large block of voters.  Wagner signed an executive order authorizing a public employee union for city workers.  This was done outside of what we call democracy, meaning nobody but the mayor, and certainly not the "people," had any say in this decision. 
Soon enough, mayors and governors around the country who were Democrats saw the wisdom in this election strategy and followed suit.  In 1962, President Kennedy authorized federal employees to unionize for the first time.  Kennedy thus created a huge permanent set of voters Democrats could count on to nearly unanimously vote for them.  And a huge permanent set of public employee unions that would deduct massive amounts of money from government employee paychecks to be funneled exclusively to the Democratic Party. 
It has proved to be a brilliant coup for the Democratic Party.  Public employee unions are now the largest campaign contributors in American elections—virtually all to Democrat candidates.  Public employee unions have poured millions and millions of dollars into the campaigns of Democrat candidates across the country, but the money comes from all taxpayers, including Republicans and Independents.  Essentially, we have people of both parties, and no party, financing the election of one party. 

PUBLIC EMPLOYEES
Public employees make far more than private sector workers today, and have incredible benefit packages including gigantic pension plans. A bus driver in Boston makes $70,000 per year and can retire at age 41 with a full pension. Some public employees have been promised retirement pensions of over $100,000 per year.
Some individuals will receive millions of taxpayer dollars before they die. These people might be paid 90 percent of their former exorbitant wages for over fifty years while they go fishing. In the meantime, the taxpayers on the hook for these monies keep working another 20 years or so. 27 million people who belong to public employee unions have been promised lifelong pensions from taxpayers.
Far more pernicious than the public employee wages, benefits and pensions, are the public employee union work rules which directly encourage doing as little work as possible, and make it nearly impossible to fire inept or lazy workers.
Public employee unions have the potential to bankrupt not only the federal government, but countless state and municipal governments that are already in trouble because of these wage, benefit, and pension plans. All because of what was from the beginning and still is today simply a scheme to garner votes for Democrats. Democrats sold our future down the river for political power.
And that is not all. The Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation, a federal government program, has taxpayers on the hook to pay for any and all private union pension programs if a company goes out of business. This is why taxpayers recently paid $100B into the General Motors pension program. This is unsustainable. These socialist ideas have created major economic problems for the United States that could spell our ruin.

HOW UNIONS KILL PRODUCTIVITY
To fully understand the problem with unions in general, let's think hypothetically for a few minutes.  Let's say Farmer John and his neighbor Farmer Joe both have 100 acres of apples to be picked. 
Farmer John runs an advertisement for apple pickers, interviews applicants, and selects the fifty people he thinks best.  He tells the fifty people that they will be paid a nickel for each apple they pick; the top five pickers the first week will be named supervisors; any caught sleeping on the job, along with the five who pick the least, will be fired and replaced.  The fifty people agree to this contract. This is what unions and their socialist supporters call "exploitation."
Farmer Joe is forced to use union workers.  In his case, the union selects the fifty pickers for Farmer Joe, based on their fervent loyalty to the union itself.  The union tells Farmer Joe he must pay each worker $150 a day, regardless if they pick one apple or a thousand.  Employees may not be fired for any reason, and the first five hired will automatically become his supervisors based solely on seniority.
Now I ask all reasonable people this question: which farm will be more productive? Which will bring in its harvest sooner?  Which will leave more apples on the ground to rot? Which farm will be most efficient and profitable, thereby continuing to provide jobs in the future versus the alternative—going out of business and leaving no jobs?
Let's say I invent a new vacuum cleaner.  I want 100 salesmen to go door-to-door and sell the machines.  Would I be wiser to hire non-union people that will agree to a contract offering $75 for each machine they sell; or union workers that I must pay $150 per day regardless if they sell five a day or none at all?  Which group will sell more vacuum cleaners—those paid on performance (merit) or those guaranteed that each of them will be paid the same regardless of effort, attitude,  and talent?

HAVE LABOR UNIONS BEEN GOOD TO AMERICA?
Unions in America were created to oppose the so-called robber barons—Rockefeller, Ford, Carnegie, et al. In those days individuals such as these owned their huge companies personally. But public employee unions have no robber baron to oppress them, unless you consider average Americans to be fat cats. And who owns the dreaded corporations today? Nearly all of us do.
Unions take credit for what Henry Ford did when he paid three times the prevailing wage and instituted the five-day-work-week and eight-hour-work-day—before Ford Motor Company was unionized.
America produced 50 percent of the manufactured goods in the whole world in 1955. For the next twenty years, labor unions averaged nearly 500 strikes per year and drove manufacturing out of the country. Workers performing manual labor anyone could do were making as much as doctors and still went on strike against their employers at the urging of unions.
Today only 6.9 percent of private sector employees belong to a union—7.1 million people. For the first time in American history, more public employees belong to a union—7.6 million people (36 percent of government workers).
Public employees are paid 25 percent more for the same work if they belong to a union. Taxpayers pay unionized employee wages while they conduct union business. Teamsters' contracts specifically allow sleeping on the job by public employees.

THE FOUNDATION OF LABOR UNIONS
The very idea of labor unions comes from the faulty theories of Karl Marx, the father of socialism/communism. From the view of Marx 150 years ago, nearly all Americans would eventually become factory laborers, while a handful of capitalists would own everything.
Marx was wrong in almost all of his predictions. He did not foresee the rise of the middle class in America, the rise of the entrepreneur, the rise of mechanization (taking the place of manual laborers), and the rise of publicly traded stocks.
Rather than all ownership of businesses concentrated in the hands of a few, millions of people came to own their own businesses. Tens of millions of Americans joined the middle class without belonging to a union. Tens of millions of average people own stock in corporations through their retirement plans.
Marx can be forgiven for not having an accurate crystal ball. But his ideas and slogans live on in the rhetoric of unions and their socialist supporters. These ideas make no sense in present day reality and they are the complete opposite of what made America rich—meritocracy.
In a meritocracy, those who are inventive, ingenious, efficient, productive, intelligent, motivated, diligent, responsible, hard working, innovative, and dedicated rise to the top. This system benefits everyone to some extent as it makes for a vastly more productive society that is wealthy, which affords it massive public works and welfare programs.
According to the philosophy of Karl Marx, an Atheist who hated Western Civilization, Capitalism, and Christianity, all working people in America were to join labor unions as the first step to Communism. Once labor unions had a large majority of the populace, they were to then overthrow the American government, banish Free Enterprise, and establish a new Communist America.
What distinguishes Communism from its twin sister Socialism, is that in Socialism the revolution that destroys Capitalism and Individual Freedom is a revolution not led by factory workers but by an elite group of intellectuals who believe in imposing social science and Atheism upon the citizenry. That is why Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, and Hitler all called themselves Socialists. They led no revolution of factory laborers.
Labor unions, by their very nature, are anti-Capitalist, which makes them also anti-Democracy and anti-Individual Freedom. Liberty, Democracy, and Free Enterprise are natural bed-mates. One proof of this is the recent debacle in Wisconsin, in which a law was presented to the legislature and the pro-union anti-Democracy Democrats broke the law by fleeing the state and refusing to vote.
Imagine if every time a vote was scheduled for a city council, county board, state legislature, or in Congress the lawmakers who thought they might lose just ran away and refused to vote. This would be the end of Democracy as nothing would get done and Totalitarianism would have to be imposed. Some imbeciles have hailed these criminal legislators as "heroes of democracy." This shows how moral relativists twist the English language to fool the ignorant who suck on the government teet with their demagoguery: Refusing to participate in the Democracy you were elected to participate in makes you anti-Democracy, not pro-Democracy. Sadly, lying through your teeth and using any and all means to get your way is the calling card of Marxists. See Vladimir Lenin.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Public-Employee-Labor-Unions
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

The Troll

Quote from: Henry Hawk on April 08, 2011, 02:07:26 PM
Okay, this is just a well written opinion piece that I happen to strongly agree with....
I am sharing this to further explain MY position on Unions...Troll, read it with an open mind.


PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNION PENSIONS
The Pew Center on the States recently concluded a study about pension, health care, and other retirement benefits that are promised to current and retired State Government Employees across America. The Pew Study found that American States have obligated themselves to future debts totaling $3.35 trillion to pay these benefits. The rub lies in the fact that these State Governments are short $1 trillion to meet these promises. Local Governments and the Federal Government are in the same predicament.
In 2006, Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels, on his first day in office, rescinded state workers' collective bargaining power. Governor Daniels said: "We have a new privileged class in America. We used to think of government workers as underpaid public servants. Now they are better paid than the people who pay their salaries."
What happened across the country is that politicians created enormous future debts to public employee unions that translated into votes for them at the time, but placed incredible debt burdens on future citizens—bills that would come due long after the original politicians were out of office or even no longer among the living.

A BRIEF HISTORY OF PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS
People who work for the taxpayers—public employees of local, state, or federal governments—were prohibited by law from unionizing throughout the history of the United States.  Public employees were paid less than private sector workers performing similar tasks but had better job security—their employer could not go out of business as private companies can and do.
Robert Wagner, the Democrat Mayor of New York City in 1958, was the first politician to see people who worked for the public as a large block of voters.  Wagner signed an executive order authorizing a public employee union for city workers.  This was done outside of what we call democracy, meaning nobody but the mayor, and certainly not the "people," had any say in this decision. 
Soon enough, mayors and governors around the country who were Democrats saw the wisdom in this election strategy and followed suit.  In 1962, President Kennedy authorized federal employees to unionize for the first time.  Kennedy thus created a huge permanent set of voters Democrats could count on to nearly unanimously vote for them.  And a huge permanent set of public employee unions that would deduct massive amounts of money from government employee paychecks to be funneled exclusively to the Democratic Party. 
It has proved to be a brilliant coup for the Democratic Party.  Public employee unions are now the largest campaign contributors in American elections—virtually all to Democrat candidates.  Public employee unions have poured millions and millions of dollars into the campaigns of Democrat candidates across the country, but the money comes from all taxpayers, including Republicans and Independents.  Essentially, we have people of both parties, and no party, financing the election of one party. 

PUBLIC EMPLOYEES
Public employees make far more than private sector workers today, and have incredible benefit packages including gigantic pension plans. A bus driver in Boston makes $70,000 per year and can retire at age 41 with a full pension. Some public employees have been promised retirement pensions of over $100,000 per year.
Some individuals will receive millions of taxpayer dollars before they die. These people might be paid 90 percent of their former exorbitant wages for over fifty years while they go fishing. In the meantime, the taxpayers on the hook for these monies keep working another 20 years or so. 27 million people who belong to public employee unions have been promised lifelong pensions from taxpayers.
Far more pernicious than the public employee wages, benefits and pensions, are the public employee union work rules which directly encourage doing as little work as possible, and make it nearly impossible to fire inept or lazy workers.
Public employee unions have the potential to bankrupt not only the federal government, but countless state and municipal governments that are already in trouble because of these wage, benefit, and pension plans. All because of what was from the beginning and still is today simply a scheme to garner votes for Democrats. Democrats sold our future down the river for political power.
And that is not all. The Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation, a federal government program, has taxpayers on the hook to pay for any and all private union pension programs if a company goes out of business. This is why taxpayers recently paid $100B into the General Motors pension program. This is unsustainable. These socialist ideas have created major economic problems for the United States that could spell our ruin.

HOW UNIONS KILL PRODUCTIVITY
To fully understand the problem with unions in general, let's think hypothetically for a few minutes.  Let's say Farmer John and his neighbor Farmer Joe both have 100 acres of apples to be picked. 
Farmer John runs an advertisement for apple pickers, interviews applicants, and selects the fifty people he thinks best.  He tells the fifty people that they will be paid a nickel for each apple they pick; the top five pickers the first week will be named supervisors; any caught sleeping on the job, along with the five who pick the least, will be fired and replaced.  The fifty people agree to this contract. This is what unions and their socialist supporters call "exploitation."
Farmer Joe is forced to use union workers.  In his case, the union selects the fifty pickers for Farmer Joe, based on their fervent loyalty to the union itself.  The union tells Farmer Joe he must pay each worker $150 a day, regardless if they pick one apple or a thousand.  Employees may not be fired for any reason, and the first five hired will automatically become his supervisors based solely on seniority.
Now I ask all reasonable people this question: which farm will be more productive? Which will bring in its harvest sooner?  Which will leave more apples on the ground to rot? Which farm will be most efficient and profitable, thereby continuing to provide jobs in the future versus the alternative—going out of business and leaving no jobs?
Let's say I invent a new vacuum cleaner.  I want 100 salesmen to go door-to-door and sell the machines.  Would I be wiser to hire non-union people that will agree to a contract offering $75 for each machine they sell; or union workers that I must pay $150 per day regardless if they sell five a day or none at all?  Which group will sell more vacuum cleaners—those paid on performance (merit) or those guaranteed that each of them will be paid the same regardless of effort, attitude,  and talent?

HAVE LABOR UNIONS BEEN GOOD TO AMERICA?
Unions in America were created to oppose the so-called robber barons—Rockefeller, Ford, Carnegie, et al. In those days individuals such as these owned their huge companies personally. But public employee unions have no robber baron to oppress them, unless you consider average Americans to be fat cats. And who owns the dreaded corporations today? Nearly all of us do.
Unions take credit for what Henry Ford did when he paid three times the prevailing wage and instituted the five-day-work-week and eight-hour-work-day—before Ford Motor Company was unionized.
America produced 50 percent of the manufactured goods in the whole world in 1955. For the next twenty years, labor unions averaged nearly 500 strikes per year and drove manufacturing out of the country. Workers performing manual labor anyone could do were making as much as doctors and still went on strike against their employers at the urging of unions.
Today only 6.9 percent of private sector employees belong to a union—7.1 million people. For the first time in American history, more public employees belong to a union—7.6 million people (36 percent of government workers).
Public employees are paid 25 percent more for the same work if they belong to a union. Taxpayers pay unionized employee wages while they conduct union business. Teamsters' contracts specifically allow sleeping on the job by public employees.

THE FOUNDATION OF LABOR UNIONS
The very idea of labor unions comes from the faulty theories of Karl Marx, the father of socialism/communism. From the view of Marx 150 years ago, nearly all Americans would eventually become factory laborers, while a handful of capitalists would own everything.
Marx was wrong in almost all of his predictions. He did not foresee the rise of the middle class in America, the rise of the entrepreneur, the rise of mechanization (taking the place of manual laborers), and the rise of publicly traded stocks.
Rather than all ownership of businesses concentrated in the hands of a few, millions of people came to own their own businesses. Tens of millions of Americans joined the middle class without belonging to a union. Tens of millions of average people own stock in corporations through their retirement plans.
Marx can be forgiven for not having an accurate crystal ball. But his ideas and slogans live on in the rhetoric of unions and their socialist supporters. These ideas make no sense in present day reality and they are the complete opposite of what made America rich—meritocracy.
In a meritocracy, those who are inventive, ingenious, efficient, productive, intelligent, motivated, diligent, responsible, hard working, innovative, and dedicated rise to the top. This system benefits everyone to some extent as it makes for a vastly more productive society that is wealthy, which affords it massive public works and welfare programs.
According to the philosophy of Karl Marx, an Atheist who hated Western Civilization, Capitalism, and Christianity, all working people in America were to join labor unions as the first step to Communism. Once labor unions had a large majority of the populace, they were to then overthrow the American government, banish Free Enterprise, and establish a new Communist America.
What distinguishes Communism from its twin sister Socialism, is that in Socialism the revolution that destroys Capitalism and Individual Freedom is a revolution not led by factory workers but by an elite group of intellectuals who believe in imposing social science and Atheism upon the citizenry. That is why Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, and Hitler all called themselves Socialists. They led no revolution of factory laborers.
Labor unions, by their very nature, are anti-Capitalist, which makes them also anti-Democracy and anti-Individual Freedom. Liberty, Democracy, and Free Enterprise are natural bed-mates. One proof of this is the recent debacle in Wisconsin, in which a law was presented to the legislature and the pro-union anti-Democracy Democrats broke the law by fleeing the state and refusing to vote.
Imagine if every time a vote was scheduled for a city council, county board, state legislature, or in Congress the lawmakers who thought they might lose just ran away and refused to vote. This would be the end of Democracy as nothing would get done and Totalitarianism would have to be imposed. Some imbeciles have hailed these criminal legislators as "heroes of democracy." This shows how moral relativists twist the English language to fool the ignorant who suck on the government teet with their demagoguery: Refusing to participate in the Democracy you were elected to participate in makes you anti-Democracy, not pro-Democracy. Sadly, lying through your teeth and using any and all means to get your way is the calling card of Marxists. See Vladimir Lenin.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Public-Employee-Labor-Unions

  Thank you Henry for the research in anti-union crap financed by the Koch brothers.  You see I don't read that scab crap just like I don't read pro-union information.  Because I get all of my experience from being a union member, 38 years, in one of the greatest unions in the world.  The United Auto Workers, UAW.  I know damn well they took good care of (your dad,) my dad, all of my fellow auto workers and my family and me.  I haven't missed one pension check or have had to pay for any of my few union benefits.  :wink: :smile:

  No matter how hard you try, you are one hard headed SCAB, raised in a blue collar UAW family.  Where you got all of you fucked up information I don't know.  But I'll bet you read too much information provided by the Koch brothers.  Have a nice day Henry.   :biggrin:

Henry Hawk

 Koch brothers had NOTHING to do with this.....ZERO.

This is just a real look into the ramifications of Unions and the greed that "ruined" it...

you might be surprised WHAT you may learn IF you actually read it...

Troll, I am throwing the white flag over unions with you....I know that you are very loyal, and deservingly so, to your Unions.  They  took very good care of you, your father, my father and millions of folks....but, because of the corruption the allowed in....the following generations are ruined.  Unions can no longer work and benefit America....

with that said....I will respectfully leave you alone regarding this issue.  I have my very strong opinion as do you.

YOU have a good day too!! ...  :biggrin:
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

Nighthawk

Why not take a closer look at the Koch brothers and what they do and what they own and run.

Find out how many companies they own right here in the United States and how many these companies employ. It may surprise you how many of these employees are represented by unions.

You may not agree with their political beliefs but they are doing exactly as they should. They keep jobs in the US, they expand their holdings and create even more jobs and only use their money to support what they believe in.

The Troll


  Henry I hope you do wave the white flag.  You know it is a hot point :flame: with me and it brings out all of the evil :chair: in me.  But let me tell you Lad, one thing the super rich and the large corporations are feeding is you a bunch a shit.  I sure wish you were smarter than that to believe all of it.   You're just a number to them and if there is a way to cancel that number they will do it in a heart beat.  :trustme:

The Troll

Quote from: Nighthawk on April 08, 2011, 06:10:56 PM
Why not take a closer look at the Koch brothers and what they do and what they own and run.

Find out how many companies they own right here in the United States and how many these companies employ. It may surprise you how many of these employees are represented by unions.

You may not agree with their political beliefs but they are doing exactly as they should. They keep jobs in the US, they expand their holdings and create even more jobs and only use their money to support what they believe in.

  Yes let's take a look at the Koch brothers.  They are self made millionaires.  My ass, their daddy was a multi millionaire the founder of the crazy kooks John Burch Society with John Burch the first killed in world III.  All they did was take over from daddy.  If they could take their companies overseas they would.

  They all ready have said they are going to spend $88 million on the 2012 election.  Republicans are good for big corporations.  They sure have made a bunch of money under George Bush and his tax cut for the rich and corporations.  :yes: :rolleyes: :razz:


Palehorse

Quote from: Nighthawk on April 08, 2011, 06:10:56 PM
. . .
You may not agree with their political beliefs but they are doing exactly as they should. They keep jobs in the US, they expand their holdings and create even more jobs and only use their money to support what they believe in.

And that right there is a primary example of why it is so WRONG for corporations to be enabled to donate (buy) toward political candidate's campaigns without limitation. This nurtures legislation for hire and tips the balance in favor of the corporation! It is why corporations should NEVER be granted constitutional rights; and especially without having to operate within those same rights within their business operations and practices.

How many middle class income individuals do you think have enough money to donate millions toward candidates that will work for their beliefs? How many millions of them do you think will have to pool their resources in order to even come close to the dollars ONE corporation can dole out without batting an eye?

Are "they" really "keeping jobs in America" ? Really?! So in your mind it is the "mom and pop" jobs that have left this country like rats leaving a sinking ship? Really?  :rolleyes:

The republican party is nothing but a shill for the corporate "god". Without the mighty corporation funding it, it would die; and they all damned well know it, which is why they continue to cater to them.

It will be the death of this nation if left to run its intended and very apparent course.  :mad: :mad:
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