Muslim raducalization hearings

[Sandy Eggo]

Seems very McCarthyesque

Thoughts?.

[Henry Hawk]

Let me say this, I have read opinions on this topic.......It come down to this, in my opinoin.....that it is the duty of Congress to investigate any and all security threats that is brought to them.  There have been studies indicating that three-quarters of the mosques in the U.S. actively seek to teach Shariah Law.... we all know that the vast majority of Muslims in the United States great Americans, who are peaceful and have been against all of the terrorist acts that have been committed to us since 9/11.  But it is NO secret that the vast majority of terrorist acts in America are committed by Muslims.  Some like the Ft. Hood shooter, the Times Square car bomber, the Detroit airline would-be hijacker, all had been indoctrinated by Shariah law....that is being taught HERE in the U.S. ... that is a threat that needs to be looked into.

I think comparing this to McCarthyism, is just a propaganda ploy to downplay the signifcance that this investigation may have.

[Palehorse]

How is Shariah Law any different than Christian Law, or Buddhist Law, or any other religious law????

[Palehorse]

Sharia law: founders and schools:

Perhaps the two greatest original founders of Sharia law were Malik ibn Anas and Ibn al-Shaf'i. Anas established the Maliki school of jurisprudence. Al-Shaf'i was one of Anas' students; he disagreed with his teacher about the reliability of the hadith. He felt that it was necessary to trace each hadith from the time of Muhammad through its chain of devout Muslims. This concern led to Islamic scholars considering "... which hadith were true and which were not." Needless to say this led to conflicts among scholars as to the proper application of Sharia law.

Ibn al-Shafi'i promoted the use of additional sources for Shari'a law:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islsharia.htm

   The technique of "... reasoning by analogy in order to develop new laws from existing laws." As the culture evolves, new types of problems emerge that need to be dealt with. Pre-implantation Genetic Diagnosis (PGD) used to prevent the development of a severely defective human embryo is one example.
   The technique of accepting the consensus of a Muslim community. The reasoning is that Allah would not allow an entire community to be in error on a basic Islamic principle.
There are four main schools of Sharia law:

   Hanbali: This is the most conservative school of Shari'a. It is used in Saudi Arabia and some states in Northern Nigeria.
   Hanifi: This is the most liberal school, and is relatively open to modern ideas.
   Maliki: This is based on the practices of the people of Medina during Muhammad's lifetime.
   Shafi'i: This is a conservative school that emphasizes on the opinions of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad.
What applies within one school of Sharia law does not necessarily apply in the other schools. For example, the Maliki Law School accepts evidence of pregnancy as proof that an unmarried woman has either committed adultery or been raped. The other schools "... do not recognize evidence of pregnancy as proof of Zina [Adultery]."

Recent history:

The Constitutional Rights Foundation notes that:

"In the 19th century, many Muslim countries came under the control or influence of Western colonial powers. As a result, Western-style laws, courts, and punishments began to appear within the Sharia. Some countries like Turkey totally abandoned the Sharia and adopted new law codes based on European systems...Modern legislation along with Muslim legal scholars who are attempting to relate the will of Allah to the 20th century have reopened the door to interpreting the Sharia. This has happened even in highly traditional Saudi Arabia, where Islam began....Since 1980, some countries with fundamentalist Islamic regimes like Iran have attempted to reverse the trend of westernization and return to the classic Sharia." 4

Within Sharia law, there are a group of "Haram" offenses which carry severe punishments. These include pre-marital sexual intercourse, sex by divorced persons, post-marital sex, adultery, false accusation of unlawful intercourse, drinking alcohol, theft, and highway robbery. Haram sexual offenses can carry a sentence of stoning to death or severe flogging.

Sharia law  has been adopted in various forms by many countries, ranging from a strict interpretation in Saudi Arabia and northern states of Nigeria, to a relatively liberal interpretation in much of Malaysia. 1

Sharia law is intended to be only applicable to Muslims. Christians and other non-Muslims are supposed to be exempt from the provisions of the law; this is a provision that is not universally followed..

I see an awful lot of similarities in Sharia Law and the teachings of Christianity within the bible. The main differences being that Muslims in many countries still practice the punishments contained within their holy scriptures, while Christianity continues to try to impose them within its government.

[Nighthawk]

How is Shariah Law any different than Christian Law, or Buddhist Law, or any other religious law????

Here are but a few tenets of Shariah Law

Requirement of women  to obtain permission from husbands for daily freedoms;
Beating of disobedient woman and girls;
Execution of homosexuals;
Engagement of polygamy and forced child marriages;
Requirement of the testimony of four male witnesses to prove rape;
Stoning of adulteresses;
Lashing of adulterers; 
Amputation of body for criminal offenses;
Female genital mutilation;
Capital punishment for those who slander or insult Islam;
Execution of apostates, or those that leave the religion of Islam
Inferior status for all non-Muslims, known as Dhimmitude.
Concept of Taquiyya: A Muslim may lie or deceive others to advance the cause of Islam

[Palehorse]

Seems very McCarthyesque

Thoughts?.

Indeed. And unfortunately it is not just the muslim community this nation seems to want to impose this upon. Just look at hispanics if you think I am wrong!

[Palehorse]

Here are but a few tenets of Shariah Law

Requirement of women  to obtain permission from husbands for daily freedoms;
Beating of disobedient woman and girls;
Execution of homosexuals;
Engagement of polygamy and forced child marriages;
Requirement of the testimony of four male witnesses to prove rape;
Stoning of adulteresses;
Lashing of adulterers; 
Amputation of body for criminal offenses;
Female genital mutilation;
Capital punishment for those who slander or insult Islam;
Execution of apostates, or those that leave the religion of Islam
Inferior status for all non-Muslims, known as Dhimmitude.
Concept of Taquiyya: A Muslim may lie or deceive others to advance the cause of Islam

And again, this differs form the accounts of Christianity contained within the bible how??? (Other than the fact our government keeps Xtians from imposing such punishments?)

Freedom of (and from) religion mean anything to you?

[Nighthawk]

Freedom of (and from) religion mean anything to you?

Yes it does and under Islamic law you don't have this freedom. In Islam, religion and government are one and the same.

[Palehorse]

Yes it does and under Islamic law you don't have this freedom. In Islam, religion and government are one and the same.

Not true.

"In the 19th century, many Muslim countries came under the control or influence of Western colonial powers. As a result, Western-style laws, courts, and punishments began to appear within the Sharia. Some countries like Turkey totally abandoned the Sharia and adopted new law codes based on European systems...Modern legislation along with Muslim legal scholars who are attempting to relate the will of Allah to the 20th century have reopened the door to interpreting the Sharia. This has happened even in highly traditional Saudi Arabia, where Islam began....Since 1980, some countries with fundamentalist Islamic regimes like Iran have attempted to reverse the trend of westernization and return to the classic Sharia."

While it is true that some are attempting to reverse this condition surrounding the adoption of western influenced law, in most of these countries it is also true that Islam (religion) and government are intertwined. OUR nation has chosen to keep religion and government separate for many of the reasons that individuals attempt to utilize as an example surrounding how bad Sharia Law is; however, who are we to judge? It is/was their decision and we need to respect that in the same way we expect them to respect our own laws and methods of worship when they are in this country.

If Muslims are attempting to impose Sharia Law styles of punishment within this country, they are without question breaking the laws of this land and should be punished according to said laws; and are as far as I know. If the victims of these actions in this country are hindering the ability of law enforcement to enforce our laws, thereby preventing the ascribed punishment from taking place, that is another matter entirely; however it is NO reason to persecute all muslims based upon their religious beliefs when said beliefs do not impact anyone else. (And automagically ascribing perceived impacts does not legally count!)

[The Troll]

Not true.

"In the 19th century, many Muslim countries came under the control or influence of Western colonial powers. As a result, Western-style laws, courts, and punishments began to appear within the Sharia. Some countries like Turkey totally abandoned the Sharia and adopted new law codes based on European systems...Modern legislation along with Muslim legal scholars who are attempting to relate the will of Allah to the 20th century have reopened the door to interpreting the Sharia. This has happened even in highly traditional Saudi Arabia, where Islam began....Since 1980, some countries with fundamentalist Islamic regimes like Iran have attempted to reverse the trend of westernization and return to the classic Sharia."

While it is true that some are attempting to reverse this condition surrounding the adoption of western influenced law, in most of these countries it is also true that Islam (religion) and government are intertwined. OUR nation has chosen to keep religion and government separate for many of the reasons that individuals attempt to utilize as an example surrounding how bad Sharia Law is; however, who are we to judge? It is/was their decision and we need to respect that in the same way we expect them to respect our own laws and methods of worship when they are in this country.

If Muslims are attempting to impose Sharia Law styles of punishment within this country, they are without question breaking the laws of this land and should be punished according to said laws; and are as far as I know. If the victims of these actions in this country are hindering the ability of law enforcement to enforce our laws, thereby preventing the ascribed punishment from taking place, that is another matter entirely; however it is NO reason to persecute all muslims based upon their religious beliefs when said beliefs do not impact anyone else. (And automagically ascribing perceived impacts does not legally count!)

  Speaking of religion.  On the news last night a large group of religious leaders and scholars got together and they rewrote the bible again.

  I don't know if it was God inspired, but they say that in it.  The God of the Old Testament is not the mean son-of-a-bitch as he was the other many old copies.

[Palehorse]

  Speaking of religion.  On the news last night a large group of religious leaders and scholars got together and they rewrote the bible again.

  I don't know if it was God inspired, but they say that in it.  The God of the Old Testament is not the mean son-of-a-bitch as he was the other many old copies.

Yeah. . . I saw that! 

[Sandy Eggo]

Let me say this, I have read opinions on this topic.......It come down to this, in my opinoin.....that it is the duty of Congress to investigate any and all security threats that is brought to them.  There have been studies indicating that three-quarters of the mosques in the U.S. actively seek to teach Shariah Law.... we all know that the vast majority of Muslims in the United States great Americans, who are peaceful and have been against all of the terrorist acts that have been committed to us since 9/11.  But it is NO secret that the vast majority of terrorist acts in America are committed by Muslims.  Some like the Ft. Hood shooter, the Times Square car bomber, the Detroit airline would-be hijacker, all had been indoctrinated by Shariah law....that is being taught HERE in the U.S. ... that is a threat that needs to be looked into.

I think comparing this to McCarthyism, is just a propaganda ploy to downplay the signifcance that this investigation may have.

Henry, do you have a link to the studies which indicate that 3/4ths of mosques actively seek to teach the Shariah Law. Also, so you have a source on the "vast majority" of attacks on the US have been committed by Muslims?

Lastly, what if there were hearings to investigate Christian churches because of the terrorist acts commited by Christians? Would you still feel that it's fair?

(Please don't say that the Christians who bombed clincs and OK city and who picket funerals of fallen soldiers and encourage mass suicide aren't "real" Christians because it doesn't matter by your own words. If most of the Muslim Americans who are peaceful and renouce the terrorist acts of 9/11 are fairly subjected to suspicion, then so the same could apply to Christians, even though I'm sure you'll say that a vast majority of Christians are peaceful - turn about is fair play)

[The Troll]

  In this world you have terrorist of all kinds.  Religious and not.  Just plain crazy people and there is nothing we can do to keep them from becoming crazy.  If this Senator was really doing a service to the country, I would agree with him.

  But he's doing it for a political reasons, He is doing it to scare the 33% of the nutty far right Christians for their votes later.  He want to scare them so they won't look how bad the Republicans have screwed up this country and what they are trying to do now.

  His show is all smoke and mirrors, just watch, nothing will come out of this.  But we do have on problem with mental ill people coming.  It is the vets coming home after they have been used over and over and over in combat.  People who have be trained to handle guns, weapons and explosives.  The first thing the Republicans will do is to cut medical help to these men.  The men that has served this country.  Just watch and see. 

[Henry Hawk]

Henry, do you have a link to the studies which indicate that 3/4ths of mosques actively seek to teach the Shariah Law. Also, so you have a source on the "vast majority" of attacks on the US have been committed by Muslims?

Lastly, what if there were hearings to investigate Christian churches because of the terrorist acts commited by Christians? Would you still feel that it's fair?

(Please don't say that the Christians who bombed clincs and OK city and who picket funerals of fallen soldiers and encourage mass suicide aren't "real" Christians because it doesn't matter by your own words. If most of the Muslim Americans who are peaceful and renouce the terrorist acts of 9/11 are fairly subjected to suspicion, then so the same could apply to Christians, even though I'm sure you'll say that a vast majority of Christians are peaceful - turn about is fair play)

I will see if I can find a source to support the mosques and sharia lawother than the opinion piece I read.

I would have ZERO problems with churches were under investigation for any wrong doings.  I there are certain churches promoting violence then Heck YES, lets investigate the crap out of them. 

Our National Security is in the hands of our elected officials.

[Sandy Eggo]

I will see if I can find a source to support the mosques and sharia lawother than the opinion piece I read.

I would have ZERO problems with churches were under investigation for any wrong doings.  I there are certain churches promoting violence then Heck YES, lets investigate the crap out of them. 

Our National Security is in the hands of our elected officials.

But Henry, you added a caveat. "If certain churches", I don't think the mosques are getting the same loophole. He wants to investigate ALL of them.