Sexual Harassment Suit Joins Several Against City

[The Troll]

This whole situation reminds me of "Minority Report", wherein the law is punitive toward a crime that has not yet happened. . .

  This woman who is after the mayor.  She's a smart cookie, she been the rough and tumble business of politics.  Why don't she have secret tapes, a small recorder cost hardly nothing.  Why hasn't she kept a log, times and date of the so call sexual harassments and also witness to these events.

  She just bitter because she was demoted.  Tough titty, get a life.  I think you will see this blow over, just like so other many so called sexual harassments cases.  But this is what the news media feeds on.

[Y]

Let's take all this to its (il)logical conclusion.

Any repeated comments containing requests for sexual contact or alluding to sexual contact...

Asking for a date is inherently alluding to, and seeking, sexual contact somewhere along the line.  So if someone repeatedly asks for a date, does that then become sexual harassment?

...especially when made by someone with power over (like a boss or someone who is intimidating for some reason) the person being addressed.

This would just about eliminate dating in the workplace for anyone who wasn't at the same level.

How about size differences?  Is 6'2" 'intimidating' to 4'11"?  Is 250# intimidating to 98#?  Isn't one person's intimidating another person's attraction?   

I think if someone made those kind of remarks even after being told no or to stop it becomes harassment.

Apparently all the loutish boors who can't take a hint are going to be subjected to the legal system.  Do any of us think that should happen or that it would be in society's best interest?

[Anne]

Let's take all this to its (il)logical conclusion.

Asking for a date is inherently alluding to, and seeking, sexual contact somewhere along the line.  So if someone repeatedly asks for a date, does that then become sexual harassment?

This would just about eliminate dating in the workplace for anyone who wasn't at the same level.

How about size differences?  Is 6'2" 'intimidating' to 4'11"?  Is 250# intimidating to 98#?  Isn't one person's intimidating another person's attraction?   

Apparently all the loutish boors who can't take a hint are going to be subjected to the legal system.  Do any of us think that should happen or that it would be in society's best interest?

No, asking for a date, even repeatedly, is not necessarily asking or alluding to sexual conduct. Making comments like Mayor Okoman is accused making are not asking for a date. If Ms. Spencer objected to these statements and they continued it rises to the level of harassment, IMO.  You are mixing apples and oranges, dating between two people in the same workplace is not the same as being intimidated, I am surprised someone as logical as you say you are can't figure that out. Of course being physically taller, bigger, stronger can be part of it but not necessary to intimidate. Last of all, if someone, male or female is too stupid to 'take the hint' maybe standing before a judge would enlighten him/her. 

[Sandy Eggo]

No, asking for a date, even repeatedly, is not necessarily asking or alluding to sexual conduct. Making comments like Mayor Okoman is accused making are not asking for a date. If Ms. Spencer objected to these statements and they continued it rises to the level of harassment, IMO.  You are mixing apples and oranges, dating between two people in the same workplace is not the same as being intimidated, I am surprised someone as logical as you say you are can't figure that out. Of course being physically taller, bigger, stronger can be part of it but not necessary to intimidate. Last of all, if someone, male or female is too stupid to 'take the hint' maybe standing before a judge would enlighten him/her.

But Anne,

I'd someone in the workplace continues to ask for dates which the other person isn't interested in going on, then couldn't the unwanted attention make the workplace uncomfortable? Why would anyone want to come to work in an uncomfortable environment, let alone be able to focus and produce? What would that be filed under if not sexual harassment?

[Anne]

I certainly think you could make a case for that, but I was thinking more of the whiny type as opposed to the backed into a corner kind of 'asking'.

[The Troll]

But Anne,

I'd someone in the workplace continues to ask for dates which the other person isn't interested in going on, then couldn't the unwanted attention make the workplace uncomfortable? Why would anyone want to come to work in an uncomfortable environment, let alone be able to focus and produce? What would that be filed under if not sexual harassment?

  Just how would you handle this MS. Eggo?  I just imagine that you would have told him off in such words, that he would not have not only left you alone, he probably have grown to really dislike you too.  You have such away with words.  You have came off to me to be that way. What's your answer?

[Sandy Eggo]

  Just how would you handle this MS. Eggo?  I just imagine that you would have told him off in such words, that he would not have not only left you alone, he probably have grown to really dislike you too.  You have such away with words.  You have came off to me to be that way. What's your answer?

I've been in this situation a few times. Believe it or not, most men get the hint the first time that you explain to them that you have a policy against dating co-workers.

There are a few types who refuse to understand. The ones who are nice about it, but just seem to have trouble taking "no" for an answer, I'm nice to and eventually, they understand. The ones who think that I must be nuts for not being overwhelmed by their masculinity, I'm not so nice to. If they grow to dislike me...mission accomplished.

In real life, I'm a laid-back and easy going person. I'm honest and straightforward. I'm also a kind person, as long as someone is kind to me. I won't let someone walk on me and I don't lose sleep based on who likes me or not.

On the topic of sexual harassment, I've learned the threshold is different for everyone. For example, the scenario described above, would be one that I personally think two adults should be able to handle between them without management becoming involved. However, there are other people who may feel uncomfortable with the attention and may not be confident enough to handle it. That's why it's a good idea to take "no" for an answer the first time. You never know what you're dealing with.

One case was a woman trying to get a man to go out with her. She was attractive, but he wasn't interested because he was in a relationship. He told her so and tried to be nice about it. She started stalking him at work. His male co-workers teased him about it and he laughed, but apparently felt really uncomfortable about the whole thing. When he continued to refuse her, she started spreading rumors that he was gay. He didn't care, because he wasn't and hoped that meant she was moving on. Everything boiled over when she cornered him in the elevator and put her hands all over him. To add insult to injury, the doors opened, exposing the two and her boyfriend was in the lobby. When he was asked why he didn't report all of this, he said that he was afraid that no one would take him seriously because he's a man. See what stereotypes willl do to you?

[The Troll]

I've been in this situation a few times. Believe it or not, most men get the hint the first time that you explain to them that you have a policy against dating co-workers.

There are a few types who refuse to understand. The ones who are nice about it, but just seem to have trouble taking "no" for an answer, I'm nice to and eventually, they understand. The ones who think that I must be nuts for not being overwhelmed by their masculinity, I'm not so nice to. If they grow to dislike me...mission accomplished.

In real life, I'm a laid-back and easy going person. I'm honest and straightforward. I'm also a kind person, as long as someone is kind to me. I won't let someone walk on me and I don't lose sleep based on who likes me or not.

On the topic of sexual harassment, I've learned the threshold is different for everyone. For example, the scenario described above, would be one that I personally think two adults should be able to handle between them without management becoming involved. However, there are other people who may feel uncomfortable with the attention and may not be confident enough to handle it. That's why it's a good idea to take "no" for an answer the first time. You never know what you're dealing with.

One case was a woman trying to get a man to go out with her. She was attractive, but he wasn't interested because he was in a relationship. He told her so and tried to be nice about it. She started stalking him at work. His male co-workers teased him about it and he laughed, but apparently felt really uncomfortable about the whole thing. When he continued to refuse her, she started spreading rumors that he was gay. He didn't care, because he wasn't and hoped that meant she was moving on. Everything boiled over when she cornered him in the elevator and put her hands all over him. To add insult to injury, the doors opened, exposing the two and her boyfriend was in the lobby. When he was asked why he didn't report all of this, he said that he was afraid that no one would take him seriously because he's a man. See what stereotypes willl do to you?

  I really like the statement  "In real life I'm laid back, I'm honest and straightforward.  I'm also kind.

   Yeah, just like a Gulf Bull Shark.  Just swimming just below the surface on a nice sunny day in Flordia looking for someone to bite a piece out of.   How's your off the job relations with men.  Huuuum.  It can't be to good if you let out any of your deep resentful feelings.  And I bet you can't keep them hidden very long.  I'll be you even dream about it.  That's why you don't sleep well.  Living with intervoices in your dreams can be pleasant. 

   You can keep your feeling about men, I don't care, you're the one who has to live with it.

[Y]

No, asking for a date, even repeatedly, is not necessarily asking or alluding to sexual conduct.

What planet are you from?  Or are you really that rose-colored-glasses naive?

Dating is the socially acceptable weird dance that is really the preliminary to the acts of sex.  In some sense it could be considered foreplay, but don't fool yourself, the entire point of 'dating' is getting to the point of the acts of sex. 

No man, or woman, enters into dating without at least somewhere in the back of his/her mind considering sex with that person.  Humanity is wired that way.

Making comments like Mayor Okoman is accused making are not asking for a date. If Ms. Spencer objected to these statements and they continued it rises to the level of harassment, IMO.

You're the only one making the point that the supposed comment(s) = asking for a date.  I certainly didn't.

One of the points I made was that taking your thinking to its (il)logical conclusion, any dullard who continually pursued another to 'date' them and refused to take "no" for an answer would be committing sexual harassment. 

Besides being a road society doesn't need to tread, it's also a hypocritical one.  Simply think of all the times people play the chase game which forces each other into the roles of predator and prey - and how many people actually enjoy it and even reminisce about it with fond memories.

Are you really interested in turning that into sexual harassment?

You are mixing apples and oranges, dating between two people in the same workplace is not the same as being intimidated, I am surprised someone as logical as you say you are can't figure that out. Of course being physically taller, bigger, stronger can be part of it but not necessary to intimidate. Last of all, if someone, male or female is too stupid to 'take the hint' maybe standing before a judge would enlighten him/her.

Ah, but you've been intimating that the pursuit of another (and that's what seeking either dates or outright sex are) that is unwanted rises to sexual harassment and should be subject to the legal system without culminating in any sexual act etc..

The point I've repeatedly been making, a logical one I might add, is that if it doesn't end in any sexual act, the person, in fact, has not been coerced into anything - which puts you, Anne, in the position of advocating for the use of the legal system to punish without the accompanying and prerequisite harm...

...one of the main basis' of our legal system, my dear.  ; )

[Anne]

Couldn't disagree with you more on all counts.

[The Troll]

Couldn't disagree with you more on all counts.

  Since you vote don't count.  I disagree with you.  "Y" carries the day again.    "T"

[Y]

Couldn't disagree with you more on all counts.

Disagree all you wish, you're still wrong - and promoting having the legal system involved without the prerequisite harm.  You basically wish for the thought police.

And, darlin', I suggest that's good ole' McCarthyism at work. 

[Anne]

Nope, speaking isn't thinking and harassment is harassment sexual or otherwise, and I'm not your Darlin'.

[The Troll]

Nope, speaking isn't thinking and harassment is harassment sexual or otherwise, and I'm not your Darlin'.

  What would y ou say if he use the word "Bitch" instead of "Darlin'"

[Anne]

Since they are both used in a demeaning way, one is just more vulgar and less socially acceptable, it technically makes no difference and why would you care?