Wartorn - 1861-2010

[Palehorse]

The title of this topic is the title of an HBO documentary that I just watched.

Anyone with a family member, or friend, that has been active military and either gone to an active theatre of operations during a conflict, or is presently there for the first time, or could potentially be deployed to the current theatre of operations, needs to watch this.

There is a lot of information to be gathered in watching this film. First and foremost on your list to achieve in viewing it, should be to carefully listen to the men and women from past, as well as present , relate their personal experiences during the operations they participated in. It can help you understand why so many that have participated in war unofficially adhere to a code of silence, and just why it is that so many of them end up in social conflict in their personal lives as well as public lives.

The film contains some very graphic photographs and video clips from these wars, and they are utilized to demonstrate the horrors these men and women have endured or are enduring. From the civil war to Iraq, this film relates the stories of the men and women who have been there, endured the horrors, and seen first hand the worst humanity is capable of. And in some cases become the purveyors of the worst of humanity's capabilities.  In a couple of instances you will see the actual footage or stills from the events they are speaking about.

Some wil find these pictures, stories, and videos disturbing and indeed, very hard to look at, but if you love someone that is or has gone through this, you will find it helpful in understanding them when they come back an individual they were not before they left.

If you have HBO then you will be able to watch it anytime at some point, via your cable providers on demand feature. I strongly suggest that you do NOT view this while young children are in the home and awake.

[Henry Hawk]

I do not have HBO, but I would like to see this.  My oldest son will more than likely be on his way over to the middle east over the coarse of the next 12 to 18 months.  Fortunately he will graduate Ball State this spring, and he is very much willing to serve over seas if/and when that assignment calls for him.  I don't think it will be a film my wife would want to watch, she is not handling this whole ideas very well.  My son has good friends who have already been there, who have not handled their return very well.  He is quite aware of this situation, as they discuss these issues monthly with his platoon.

[The Troll]

  And to think these are Republican Party wars with George W. as Commander in Chief.  One war he didn't need to start and the first one he should have stayed in and won.

  I hope your son's education keeps him off the front line.  That job is left up to the poor uneducated suckers.

[followsthewolf]

Troll posted:

"I hope your son's education keeps him off the front line.  That job is left up to the poor uneducated suckers."

That might be true now, but it wasn't when I was in. Lots of "educated"  as well as "uneducated" blood got spilled.

'Way too much.

[Henry Hawk]

My son joined because he had a desire to server his country.  He graduates in the spring, and is willing to serve anytime after.  That job, Troll, that you speak of, is left up to those who love this country, educated or not.

[followsthewolf]

My generation's war didn't kill me, but it did get my brother.

We were both very patriotic.

Hank, if your son wants to serve his country, he goes with my fervent hope that he stays whole, both physically and mentally.

I wish him the best of luck.

[Henry Hawk]

My generation's war didn't kill me, but it did get my brother.

We were both very patriotic.

Hank, if your son wants to serve his country, he goes with my fervent hope that he stays whole, both physically and mentally.

I wish him the best of luck.

Thanks FTW, I have tried to discuss his alternatives, and he is pretty insistant, that he does his tour as many of his buddies already have.  His girlfriend still has another year of college, and he thinks this would be a good way to wrap it up, before he ties the knot.
He is a great young man, and I am very proud of him.

[The Troll]

Troll posted:

"I hope your son's education keeps him off the front line.  That job is left up to the poor uneducated suckers."

That might be true now, but it wasn't when I was in. Lots of "educated"  as well as "uneducated" blood got spilled.

'Way too much.

  Mr. Wolf it sounds like you were drafted and didn't have a choice it where you went or what you did.  Maybe it was Korea or Nam.  Either one was hell.  Nam was a worthless war.  Just like the two we are in now.  Korea was a draw and the last three of these wars we're going to lose.  You can't fix stupid.

  Education does make a differance in what job you get in the Armed Forces.  I know a young man who went to college to be a CPA, when he got out he joined the Air Force and now is stationed in Washington at the Pentagon.   He sure isn't going to be on the front line.

[followsthewolf]

Neither my brother nor I were drafted.

My brother was one of those "uneducated" people, as you call them. I just called him my brother. His education level was not a factor.

I am one of those educated people you are so fond of berating, but my job was not to push paper.

I pushed fmj's.

Yes, education can and does make a difference. That's not the issue.

Both educated and uneducated soldiers die in a war. Neither is more important than the other.

[Palehorse]

My generation's war didn't kill me, but it did get my brother.

We were both very patriotic.

Hank, if your son wants to serve his country, he goes with my fervent hope that he stays whole, both physically and mentally.

I wish him the best of luck.

Thanks FTW, I have tried to discuss his alternatives, and he is pretty insistant, that he does his tour as many of his buddies already have.  His girlfriend still has another year of college, and he thinks this would be a good way to wrap it up, before he ties the knot.
He is a great young man, and I am very proud of him.

I echo FTW's sentiments above. We were lucky in that our son seems to have made it through intact to this point. Well, except for the sleeping thing anyway. . . And I can relate to that. . . Many others were not so lucky. . . and some are yet to be identified.

I can also relate to your feelngs as a parent as well Hank. And your wifes anxiety. I've experienced both, and continue to live with the fact that my son may be redeployed at any given time. . . At the same time I am VERY proud of my son and his accomplishments and patriotism; and I back him 110% on his chosen path. The important thing to me is that he knows that, and I do believe he does. We've spoken abou tit at length a few times; both while he was deployed and since his return.

. . .

Yes, education can and does make a difference. That's not the issue.

Both educated and uneducated soldiers die in a war. Neither is more important than the other.

I could not agree more!

[The Troll]

My son joined because he had a desire to server his country.  He graduates in the spring, and is willing to serve anytime after.  That job, Troll, that you speak of, is left up to those who love this country, educated or not.

  I know one thing if he was my son I might go for him to go into the Navy or the Air Force.  I sure would raise hell if he said anything about going in the Army or the Marines.

  I sure wouldn't want my son to be the last one killed or worse made a vegetable in a war we can not win and the war that George W. started.  NOT MY SON, THAT'S FOR DAMN SURE.

  I never meet a service person who went into the service to serve their country.  Not in this day and age.  Now it's getting a job.  I guess bad job is better than not having one or starving.

[Anne]

My son and cousin's son both joined the military because they wanted to serve. They both had college educations and good jobs.

[The Troll]

My son and cousin's son both joined the military because they wanted to serve. They both had college educations and good jobs.

  College educated and good jobs.  Brain dead.  But I do hope it won't get them killed or maimed.  Well I guess that what a good Republican mother does.  Raise her boys to go into the service and into a unwindable war.    If we had a draft these wars would have been over years ago.  Rich kids won't go they let someone else fight the wars.

[Anne]

Maybe they have pride in their country and are glad they can enjoy the benefits of living in this country.

[Sandy Eggo]

I think most people see a college education as desirable and an achievement to be proud of and a desire to serve your country as honorable, also a reason to be proud.