Fred Thompson "Catastrophic" if Bush Tax cuts aren't reviewed

[Henry Hawk]

there is NOTHING greedy about it Troll.........this land is all about freedom and liberty....NOT about government control......and THAT is where we disagree the most....YOU want OUR government to control the people.......fair is fair.......on a flat tax, with ALL of the loop holes gone, the rich would pay their fair share...

IF, a guy made 20 million a year, on a 20% flat tax, he would pay $4 million in taxes! If you made $100,000, you pay 20,000....

why do you want to penalize those who work hard to get ahead?

I think Neal Bortz is very correct with his analogy of a fair tax.....there is NO con job....

Honestly I think YOU are being CONNED by democrat politicians, who make you think THEY can make this a better Country...by "control".....the libs WANT control.....why can't you see this?

they want to control what we eat, what we drive, what we live in, what we set our thermostats at, how much we make...and on and on....THAT is not what our forefathers had in mind when they developed our government.....

I will say that the "republican" party is NOT what I think they should be either......

I want a "limited" government........I'm good with SOME regulation, SOME oversight, but they are there to make laws to protect us, NOT hinder us.  We need to enforce a few laws, swiftly and in some cases severely.....but, keeping Americans SAFE is first and foremost.

try reading some of the heritage foundation with an open mind, and they CAN make a whole lot of sense....

[followsthewolf]

Aye, matey.

"Limited" and "hinder" are judgment words.

Our elected officials are entrusted to apply them, along with lots of others.

And there's the rub.

One man's meat is another man's poison, one man's junk is another man's treasure, one man's hinder is another man's help, etc.

And on and on and on.

So you're on one side and other people here are on the opposite side.

Been that way since the country was formed, and we'll be chewing the same bone when the Earth explodes.

[Henry Hawk]

I guess that is why we have elections...as long as freedom and liberty are it's roots...

[The Troll]

I guess that is why we have elections...as long as freedom and liberty are it's roots...

  After reading all of your posts over the months, on all of the blathering about how oppressed the super rich are,  how we abuse them by trying to keep the poor darlings down.  My God I can't believe you came from blue collar, middle class people.  Where did you get all of this compassion for the super rich.  The same people who would give you the back of the hand if you asked for the time of day and would let you starve to death.

  There is an island at Gulf Shores Alabama, it's called Ono Island, where all of the Super Rich have one of their second or third homes.  This is also the place where a beach front lot cost $350,000.

The only way you're, yes you Hawk, going to get on that island is over the bridge, through  armed police barricade with control arm and having written permission or voice permission to even drive on a road on that island.  And yet you want to kiss their rich ass.  It is truly unbelievable how anyone from the middle class would vote against their own self interest.  You sure would and sure have.

  So tell me what classes did you take in college to come to the beliefs you have.  What books have you read on the subject and authors that have lead you to your unbelievable beliefs.

  Son you don't make sense to this old man, who worked all of his life for these authoritarian greedy bastards.

  Maybe one of these days, your are going to find out these rich bastards don't give a damn about you or your family or your station in life.  If it happens soon, in this economy, you and your family is truly going to be hurt.  I'm not mean enough to wish it would happen to you.  But I know what happened to my son who lost his job last year and could find one for 4 months and he doesn't have 5 kids.

[me]

  After reading all of your posts over the months, on all of the blathering about how oppressed the super rich are,  how we abuse them by trying to keep the poor darlings down.  My God I can't believe you came from blue collar, middle class people.  Where did you get all of this compassion for the super rich.  The same people who would give you the back of the hand if you asked for the time of day and would let you starve to death.

  There is an island at Gulf Shores Alabama, it's called Ono Island, where all of the Super Rich have one of their second or third homes.  This is also the place where a beach front lot cost $350,000.

The only way you're, yes you Hawk, going to get on that island is over the bridge, through  armed police barricade with control arm and having written permission or voice permission to even drive on a road on that island.  And yet you want to kiss their rich ass.  It is truly unbelievable how anyone from the middle class would vote against their own self interest.  You sure would and sure have.

  So tell me what classes did you take in college to come to the beliefs you have.  What books have you read on the subject and authors that have lead you to your unbelievable beliefs.

  Son you don't make sense to this old man, who worked all of his life for these authoritarian greedy bastards.

  Maybe one of these days, your are going to find out these rich bastards don't give a damn about you or your family or your station in life.  If it happens soon, in this economy, you and your family is truly going to be hurt.  I'm not mean enough to wish it would happen to you.  But I know what happened to my son who lost his job last year and could find one for 4 months and he doesn't have 5 kids.

Who paid you?  What all did you say you owned and had done with the wages they paid you?  And you say you have benefits still.  Did you expect them to pay you the same as they made?  Hum, makes no sense that you  want the very people who gave you all you have to not profit from what they worked to be able to give to you.  A lot of these people who have these businesses started at the bottom and worked their way up.  If you've never owned a business you have no idea what that end of it is.  Yes, large corporations are a little different and an owner could suddenly find himself on the outside of his business looking in if he happens to get ousted by the BOD but the worker in no way deserves to be paid the same as an owner nor should he expect to be.  Yes, owners should provide safe working conditions, yes, they should pay a fair wage, and yes, they should pay taxes.  You and a lot of others are of a mind set that they, owners and corporations, should allow you to come in and work maybe 3hrs, I'm saying that because of break times,  and get paid for 8, get super duper benefits paid for by them, get paid vacations, and make $20 or more pr hour.  On top of that you want them to pay more in taxes.   No wonder they all are moving to Mexico and other countries.   And before you come unglued yes, your job was not an easy one but I'm talking about the average factory worker who isn't subjected to what you were as a millwright?   

[The Troll]

Who paid you? What all did you say you owned and had done with the wages they paid you? And you say you have benefits still. Did you expect them to pay you the same as they made? Hum, makes no sense that you want the very people who gave you all you have to not profit from what they worked to be able to give to you. A lot of these people who have these businesses started at the bottom and worked their way up. If you've never owned a business you have no idea what that end of it is. Yes, large corporations are a little different and an owner could suddenly find himself on the outside of his business looking in if he happens to get ousted by the BOD but the worker in no way deserves to be paid the same as an owner nor should he expect to be. Yes, owners should provide safe working conditions, yes, they should pay a fair wage, and yes, they should pay taxes. You and a lot of others are of a mind set that they, owners and corporations, should allow you to come in and work maybe 3hrs, I'm saying that because of break times, and get paid for 8, get super duper benefits paid for by them, get paid vacations, and make $20 or more pr hour. On top of that you want them to pay more in taxes. No wonder they all are moving to Mexico and other countries. And before you come unglued yes, your job was not an easy one but I'm talking about the average factory worker who isn't subjected to what you were as a millwright?

   Sweet heart who is suppose to own Ford Motor Company and who owns BP.   The stock holders are suppose to own them.  The super rich at the top of these companies thinks it's their own piggy bank.

  Last year the 6 top Ford executives split $60 million dollars between themselves in salary and bonus.  $60 million dollars for 6 men for one year of going into work.  You think that alright.  Bull Shit.

   Tony Hayword of BP who killed the Gulf of Mexico is going to get an immediate pension of $900,000 a year retirement, for life.  The poor bastard.   The Super Rich deserves all the money they can get and we have "ME" waving them on.  You have to be brain dead.

[me]

 

   Sweet heart who is suppose to own Ford Motor Company and who owns BP.   The stock holders are suppose to own them.  The super rich at the top of these companies thinks it's their own piggy bank.

  Last year the 6 top Ford executives split $60 million dollars between themselves in salary and bonus.  $60 million dollars for 6 men for one year of going into work.  You think that alright.  Bull Shit.

   Tony Hayword of BP who killed the Gulf of Mexico is going to get an immediate pension of $900,000 a year retirement, for life.  The poor bastard.   The Super Rich deserves all the money they can get and we have "ME" waving them on.  You have to be brain dead.

It is still not the governments job to run companies and set salaries.  Do you think they should earn the same amount you do or that you should earn the same amount they do?  BP is a British company and it damn sure isn't any of our governments business what they pay their CEO's.  The only thing you come across as being is jealous of what they have because you don't have it and you want your share.  I"m sorry but it don't work that way in the real world. 

[The Troll]

It is still not the governments job to run companies and set salaries. Do you think they should earn the same amount you do or that you should earn the same amount they do? BP is a British company and it damn sure isn't any of our governments business what they pay their CEO's. The only thing you come across as being is jealous of what they have because you don't have it and you want your share. I"m sorry but it don't work that way in the real world.

   Well Baby Cakes, just where is BP making their money and who's Gulf did they screw up.  Don't give me that bull shit, "Well,, they're a foreign company.  Yeah, a foreign taking our money and fouling up out country.

  I have never said that people should not make large amounts of money.  Inventors, Authors, Song Writers, The people who started their own business, people who did it themselves.

  But you can kiss my butt if you think I'm for some Assholes giving themselves such ungodly wages as the bunch in the Banking, Stock Market and the CEO and the lackeys at the top sucking all of the profit out of the company and giving it to themselves.  And you protect them.  The same people who lay off  people, out source the jobs and pay off Congress gives themselves bonus for it.

  Someone who, from what they have said,  don't two dimes to rub together wants to kiss their ass.  Hell, their buying Congress as I write now.  How much money are they giving you for your defense of them.

  I'd bet my next Social Security check they haven't given you a dime.  Want to bet.

[LOsborne]

  Hum, makes no sense that you  want the very people who gave you all you have...

This is the crux of the problem, me. They didn't give him anything. He earned it. Those benefits you seem to begrudge him were part of the price of his skilled labor. No factory on earth is run by Santa Claus.

I have a job I love, and a great boss. He gives me a birthday gift and a Christmas bonus every year. I earn every dime of the rest of my compensation. If he paid less, he would have to settle for an employee who lacks some of my skills. If he needs a person with more skills than I have, it will cost him more than he pays me.

The same is true of every business that ever existed. When entry-level people can do the same job with the same competency as those who have been on the job for twenty years, the twenty-year guys get down-sized. That's just good business.

But when a company hires a son-in-law -- or a golfing buddy, or just somebody who watched them bury a body -- who has no particular skills that can't be found on every street corner, at an inflated salary with bonuses and stock options, it isn't good business. It's just greed.

Next time you go to your bank, ask yourself exactly what the executive vice president does differently, or better, than the third-year loan underwriter. And then ask if those one or two things he at which he might be a little more skilled actually justify that $120,000 difference in pay.

[me]

This is the crux of the problem, me. They didn't give him anything. He earned it. Those benefits you seem to begrudge him were part of the price of his skilled labor. No factory on earth is run by Santa Claus.

I have a job I love, and a great boss. He gives me a birthday gift and a Christmas bonus every year. I earn every dime of the rest of my compensation. If he paid less, he would have to settle for an employee who lacks some of my skills. If he needs a person with more skills than I have, it will cost him more than he pays me.

The same is true of every business that ever existed. When entry-level people can do the same job with the same competency as those who have been on the job for twenty years, the twenty-year guys get down-sized. That's just good business.

But when a company hires a son-in-law -- or a golfing buddy, or just somebody who watched them bury a body -- who has no particular skills that can't be found on every street corner, at an inflated salary with bonuses and stock options, it isn't good business. It's just greed.

Next time you go to your bank, ask yourself exactly what the executive vice president does differently, or better, than the third-year loan underwriter. And then ask if those one or two things he at which he might be a little more skilled actually justify that $120,000 difference in pay.

I guess a little better choice of words where I said gave would have been paid.  Sorry 'bout that.  As far as the rest of it, it stands as written.

[Henry Hawk]

  After reading all of your posts over the months, on all of the blathering about how oppressed the super rich are,  how we abuse them by trying to keep the poor darlings down.  My God I can't believe you came from blue collar, middle class people.  Where did you get all of this compassion for the super rich.  The same people who would give you the back of the hand if you asked for the time of day and would let you starve to death.

  There is an island at Gulf Shores Alabama, it's called Ono Island, where all of the Super Rich have one of their second or third homes.  This is also the place where a beach front lot cost $350,000.

The only way you're, yes you Hawk, going to get on that island is over the bridge, through  armed police barricade with control arm and having written permission or voice permission to even drive on a road on that island.  And yet you want to kiss their rich ass.  It is truly unbelievable how anyone from the middle class would vote against their own self interest.  You sure would and sure have.

  So tell me what classes did you take in college to come to the beliefs you have.  What books have you read on the subject and authors that have lead you to your unbelievable beliefs.

  Son you don't make sense to this old man, who worked all of his life for these authoritarian greedy bastards.

  Maybe one of these days, your are going to find out these rich bastards don't give a damn about you or your family or your station in life.  If it happens soon, in this economy, you and your family is truly going to be hurt.  I'm not mean enough to wish it would happen to you.  But I know what happened to my son who lost his job last year and could find one for 4 months and he doesn't have 5 kids.

Maybe we need to define "rich"..........I am MORE concerned about the small business man, that makes up the vast majority of employment in this land.....I'm talking about the guy who is making $200,000 plus...THOSE guys are the ones who are keeping the blue collar guy busy....

I am NOT compassionate about the BIG assed Corporate world...but, the bottom line is our government does NOT need to be dictating who, what, when and where to ANY business...

If you want to talk about your "authoritarian greedy bastards"..THAT is what our Government is!!!!
and they are at an all time record of being so....

Troll, for someone who has made a very comfortable living OFF of these bastards that you complain of, you sure don't seem to be very grateful...

and dude, I can careless about any Ono Island....the "super rich" can have it....I just want to keep my job, pay my bills and raise my family....my middle class family values taught me that.....

and another thing, IF, we could quit having government run this and gov run that....and let the entrepreneurs of country, do their thing, without gov interference....then JOB's for you son may be more plentiful....

again, I'm not about the super rich getting super richer, but we got to quit beating the shit out of the business' that are trying their best to keep it's head above water...I work for such a company....and so far, he is keeping his people busy, but I don't know how much longer he can sustain this before our Government makes it worse.

[The Troll]

   quit beating the shit out of the business' that are trying their best to keep it's head above water...I work for such a company....and so far, he is keeping his people busy, but I don't know how much longer he can sustain this before our Government makes it worse.

  Please tell me just what the Federal Government is doing to kill you company.  Hell, the Republicans just turn down a bill that was to help the small business man.

  Come on, tell me just what the the government  is doing against your company.  Sure we have Building Codes, which I think you would say we need.  What else are they doing to kill it.

  Hell, we have to have laws to keep the bad companies from taking over the good companies.  Don't you agree.  Or do we just turn everybody loose and let them build, steal, and sell shitty products.

  But it really gets me, "WE GOT TO HELP THE SMALL BUSSINESS MAN, SO HE CAN HELP US."

  Yeah, helping us.  Paying minimum wages or under the table, we have a pizza shop here in town, the guy that owns it, own 3 others pizza stores.  He's pay his people under the table, cash.  He is paying the minimum wage, he doesn't want to break that law.

  They pay no benefits.

  They won't let their people 40 hours, so they don't have to worry about paying unemployment.

  And a whole lot don't pay the proper income tax, they cheat on the income tax.

  There's a Sub Food shop in Ruskin Florida.  It has good subs.  I made friend with the lady who ran it.  We were talking about wages.  She said, she work for this guy, who live on the beach and does nothing with his business except take in the money.  This honest small business man pays  this woman $55 a day for 10 hours.  Cash under the table.  She has no help and runs the business by herself, 6 days a week.

  She had made a mistake on one of the subs she was making for me.  I said, at least you get to eat the mistakes.  She said, Hell no,  the greedy bastard make me take them to his accountant.  I said he won't even let you eat free.  She said, hell no, no potato chips, no cold drinks no nothing.

  This woman, single mother with two kids, makes $330 a week for 6 days.  Oh my god do we need more small business men like him.  God bless him for hiring these poor people.  He's such good people.  One of the problems there is a whole lot of People in small business just like him.  Cheating greed.

[Sandy Eggo]

If someone were truely concerned about the little guy, you'd think that you'd want the big guy to pay his real share in taxes. Someone has to, we have bills to pay.

[Henry Hawk]

if he is breaking the law, and it sounds like he IS, then he should go to jail......it is THAT simple.  Why isn't he?

and NO one is putting a gun to anyone's head to work for  him....that lady CHOSE to work for him...I bet the people buy the subs are not complaining for a great sub at a great price....I bet they don't give a rats ass IF that woman is making 50 bucks a day.....and THAT does suck, but the greedy is JUST not with the owners, the customers are greedy too.......that is why Walmart is doing so well.....

I agree with you that it is time for Americans to decide WHAT they want....American jobs or cheap shit....

I have given you MY ways of running things....and it is not a republican thing either...it is just a common sense thing...

and Troll, this current federal gov is always proposing policies that spend, tax, and borrow way too much of our money, and they continue to expand the size and scope of the federal government...and that is a hindering our economic growth, which in return IS KILLING small business....to me it is so freakin simple to see, and just as easy to fix....but, we are killing this nation as we speak.....you can blame Bush, and republicans ALL you want, but the problem IS and HAS been, TOO MUCH SPENDING AND EXPANDING OF OUR GOVERNMENT....

[The Troll]

if he is breaking the law, and it sounds like he IS, then he should go to jail......it is THAT simple.  Why isn't he?

and NO one is putting a gun to anyone's head to work for  him....that lady CHOSE to work for him...I bet the people buy the subs are not complaining for a great sub at a great price....I bet they don't give a rats ass IF that woman is making 50 bucks a day.....and THAT does suck, but the greedy is JUST not with the owners, the customers are greedy too.......that is why Walmart is doing so well.....

I agree with you that it is time for Americans to decide WHAT they want....American jobs or cheap shit....

I have given you MY ways of running things....and it is not a republican thing either...it is just a common sense thing...

and Troll, this current federal gov is always proposing policies that spend, tax, and borrow way too much of our money, and they continue to expand the size and scope of the federal government...and that is a hindering our economic growth, which in return IS KILLING small business....to me it is so freakin simple to see, and just as easy to fix....but, we are killing this nation as we speak.....you can blame Bush, and republicans ALL you want, but the problem IS and HAS been, TOO MUCH SPENDING AND EXPANDING OF OUR GOVERNMENT....

  PC Hawk, your only solution to this economy is.  Quit spending money.  Cut taxes.  Quit spending, cut taxes, cut taxes, quit spending, cut taxes.

  You want to do what Herbert Hoover's idea of getting us out the depression.  The Super Rich and the corporations they own are hording money, the American don't have extra money to spend, who in hell is left to get this economy going, it's the American Government.

  Let talk about the Subs, they were not cheap.  They tasted good because the woman made them good.  Why did she work for him.  Because there hardly wasn't any close jobs to work.  The only jobs that were to be had paid around $6.20 or less.  To take one of them, she would have to pay tax, Buy a car and pay for gas.  She walked to work.

  Why I didn't turn in the greedy bastard was, he would have lost the store and she would lose her job.  If things were different I would have turned him.  But being in Florida, it wouldn't have went anywere.

  I sure would like to see how well your boss lives and his relation who work in the business.  I'll bet a S.S. check he's living high in his million dollar house and the things that goes with that.