The Spill, The Scandal and the President...

[LOsborne]

Do your own homework.

Don't give me that shit. If you cite a factual document you claim exists, provide the source or I'll have no choice but to assume you made it up. Rules of debate.

[Anne]

I didn't ask who it isn't, Anne. You said, "llet the people who know what to do get on with their jobs." That implies there are people who know what to do. Who do you think they are?

The people who are working on the ships and putting out the containment booms, the people cleaning up the beach and the engineers who are working on the problems of stopping the leak. I can't give you names and companies if that is what you want, but I did see where Kevin Costner has some equipment that I think he said separates the oil and water.

[LOsborne]

The people who are working on the ships and putting out the containment booms, the people cleaning up the beach and the engineers who are working on the problems of stopping the leak....

In what way do you see the POTUS's visit impeding their efforts?

[Sandy Eggo]

..and if he didn't go, then he'd be a uncaring POS

He can't win.

[Palehorse]

Source, please?

This part of it is over 408 pages and it surrounds EPA jurisdiction and legal authority over deep water - off shore oil rigs

http://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/20002XFX.txt?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=EPA&Index=1991%20Thru%201994&Docs=&Query=%28permit%29%20OR%20FNAME%3D%2220002XFX.txt%22%20AND%20FNAME%3D%2220002XFX.txt%22&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=1&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&UseQField=&IntQFieldOp=1&ExtQFieldOp=1&XmlQuery=&File=D%3A%5CZYFILES%5CINDEX%20DATA%5C91THRU94%5CTXT%5C00000007%5C20002XFX.txt&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=h%7C-&MaximumDocuments=10&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r75g8/r75g8/x150y150g16/i425&Display=p%7Cf&DefSeekPage=x&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=23

[Palehorse]

Don't give me that shit. If you cite a factual document you claim exists, provide the source or I'll have no choice but to assume you made it up. Rules of debate.

Then read it yourself. above.

[Anne]

In what way do you see the POTUS's visit impeding their efforts?

Have you ever been around when a VIP of that importance shows up, everything stops, traffic, work, shopping, absolutely everything. Too much security for anything to function.

[Anne]

..and if he didn't go, then he'd be a uncaring POS

He can't win.

Well, I wouldn't see it that way.

[Palehorse]

Moreover, the site lies within the EEZ that is recognized world wide, as I have already provided the information to the same screen name previously:

The deep water horizon was operating 40 nautical miles off the cost, but within the exclusive economic zone which extends out to 200 nautical miles from the end of territorial water, the baseline of which begins at the low water mark. (TW = 12 miles off any coast on average).

The "exclusive economic zone" provides the coastal nation with control over all resources contained within it, including fish, mining, oil exploration, and pollution.  BP could not operate within this zone without a written agreement with the United States that subjects it to US law and control.

Laws of the sea. The term "international waters" is a misnomer, since a very large number of regional agreements, conflicts surrounding exceptions to territorial waters agreements, and global agreements encompass what the landlubber would assume are international waters. . .

http://aquaculture.noaa.gov/pdf/20_eezmap.pdf

And here is a copy of the legal document signed by the POTUS

. . .The exclusive economic zone of the United States is a zone contiguous to the territorial sea, including zones contiguous to the territorial sea of the United States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (to the extent consistent with the Covenant and the United Nations Trusteeship Agreement), and United States overseas Territories and possessions. The exclusive economic zone extends to a distance 200 nautical miles from the baseline from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured. In cases where the maritime boundary with a neighbouring State remains to be determined, the boundary of the exclusive economic zone shall be determined by the United States and other State concerned in accordance with equitable principles.
Within the exclusive economic zone, the United States has, to the extent permitted by international law, (a) sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring, exploiting, conserving and managing natural resources, both living and non-living, of the sea-bed and subsoil and the superjacent waters and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents and winds; and (b) jurisdiction with regard to the establishment and use of artificial islands, and installations and structures having economic purposes, and the protection and preservation of the marine environment. . .

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/USA_1983_Proclamation.pdf

http://oceancommission.gov/documents/prepub_report/primer.pdf

[Palehorse]

Don't give me that shit. If you cite a factual document you claim exists, provide the source or I'll have no choice but to assume you made it up. Rules of debate.

Assume whatever the hell you like. I'm sick of doing everybody's homework for them over and over and over again. I've cited my sources previously to the VERY SAME inquiry, from the VERY SAME poster.

Keep up will yah!

[LOsborne]

Assume whatever the hell you like. I'm sick of doing everybody's homework for them over and over and over again. I've cited my sources previously to the VERY SAME inquiry, from the VERY SAME poster.

Keep up will yah!

Okay, I gave you every chance. My source (NY Times) says Deepwater Horizon didn't have a permit.

WASHINGTON — The federal Minerals Management Service gave permission to BP and dozens of other oil companies to drill in the Gulf of Mexico without first getting required permits from another agency that assesses threats to endangered species — and despite strong warnings from that agency about the impact the drilling was likely to have on the gulf.

Those approvals, federal records show, include one for the well drilled by the Deepwater Horizon rig, which exploded on April 20, killing 11 workers and resulting in thousands of barrels of oil spilling into the gulf each day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/14agency.html?hp

[Palehorse]

Okay, I gave you every chance. My source (NY Times) says Deepwater Horizon didn't have a permit.

WASHINGTON — The federal Minerals Management Service gave permission to BP and dozens of other oil companies to drill in the Gulf of Mexico without first getting required permits from another agency that assesses threats to endangered species — and despite strong warnings from that agency about the impact the drilling was likely to have on the gulf.

Those approvals, federal records show, include one for the well drilled by the Deepwater Horizon rig, which exploded on April 20, killing 11 workers and resulting in thousands of barrels of oil spilling into the gulf each day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/14agency.html?hp

Yeah. . . and what difference does that make? They STILL were operating within the EEZ of the US and by international law, (See UN LINK)   , are bound by its provisions   
which place them squarely under the direct jurisdiction of US law and policy. Spin it any way you like, the US has the authority to impose "command and control" over them due to their
uncontrolled release of pollutants and the resulting negative economic impact. (See EPA link).

They are still bound by the provisions that would have been contained within any permit, whether or not they had one.

[The Troll]

Then read it yourself. above.

  Man, your hurting my brain with all of the information.  But from what I get from
from  you and television, Man, I do belive you.   

[LOsborne]

Have you ever been around when a VIP of that importance shows up, everything stops, traffic, work, shopping, absolutely everything. Too much security for anything to function.

I believe he was in Mississippi in the morning, Alabama in the afternoon, and Florida in the evening of June 14. That really doesn't sound like very many hours of disruption any -- especially since he didn't even touch down in Louisiana. Sorry, I think you are parroting party-line.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2010/06/president_obama_official_sched_337.html

[LOsborne]

Yeah. . . and what difference does that make?

They are still bound by the provisions that would have been contained within any permit, whether or not they had one.

But I asked for your source on the permit.  You said

The terms of the agreement (Read Permit) provides for just that. They are subject to US Law and control, and they agreed to that as a condition of their permit. Jeopardy is attached.

Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you meant we should read the permit. I tried. I couldn't find one. I did find several stories stating BP and Trans Ocean didn't have one.

Sorry. I got excited thinking you had found the mysterious missing permit.