Republican Party, Teabag Party and the Libertarian Party absolutely SUCK!

[Palehorse]

You could have stopped with just this and saved yourself a lot of typing.  BTW, you're arguing business with someone with no knowledge of or experience in it.[/list]

Yup   

[me]

Quote from: followsthewolf on Today at 02:59:16 PM

    And not a word about the upper level management who would have let these companies get in this shape.

    *cricket*

Upper lvl management is where they should start because if it had been managed properly in the first place they wouldn't have been in the shape they were in.  Those are usually the ones with the most seniority too. 
I suppose Troll's answer would be get a union and raise their wages.....well duh....they're already in trouble how could that be practical? 

Question to Troll. What would your answer be to restructuring a company who was losing money so they didn't have to close it's doors?

Ex what would be your solution?  Would you keep everyone on at their current wage and hours? 

Would closing the door putting everyone out of work have been a better solution so a few could keep their jobs?

[The Troll]

Upper lvl management is where they should start because if it had been managed properly in the first place they wouldn't have been in the shape they were in.  Those are usually the ones with the most seniority too. 
I suppose Troll's answer would be get a union and raise their wages.....well duh....they're already in trouble how could that be practical? 

Question to Troll. What would your answer be to restructuring a company who was losing money so they didn't have to close it's doors?

Ex what would be your solution?  Would you keep everyone on at their current wage and hours? 

Would closing the door putting everyone out of work have been a better solution so a few could keep their jobs?

    I'll answer your question.  I won't pull a and not give you an answer.  I liked it that you asked me an easy question to answer.   

  Just like in the Auto Workers the UAW, General Motors, Chrysler and Ford workers took wage cuts and benefit cuts.  Just like everybody in every union shop that has been trouble. They sure did.   

  But, in most buyouts and bankruptcies the defaulting seller or the buyer of said company wants workers to work for nothing, with no benefits, no retirement and no say in what happen to the people or their jobs.

  I do appreciate easy questions, but I don't know if you are smart enough to understand the middle class workers, they don't like to starve and work for no pay.

  I think you said that in one of your jobs that you didn't pay yourself, but it made you mad because you had to pay your employees and that your workers made more money than yourself.    I do think that if you thought you could have got by with it and not been sued or went to jail, you wouldn't have even paid them.  But sometimes, shit happens.   

[me]

    I'll answer your question.  I won't pull a and not give you an answer.  I liked it that you asked me an easy question to answer.   

  Just like in the Auto Workers the UAW, General Motors, Chrysler and Ford workers took wage cuts and benefit cuts.  Just like everybody in every union shop that has been trouble. They sure did.   

  But, in most buyouts and bankruptcies the defaulting seller or the buyer of said company wants workers to work for nothing, with no benefits, no retirement and no say in what happen to the people or their jobs.

  I do appreciate easy questions, but I don't know if you are smart enough to understand the middle class workers, they don't like to starve and work for no pay.

  I think you said that in one of your jobs that you didn't pay yourself, but it made you mad because you had to pay your employees and that your workers made more money than yourself.    I do think that if you thought you could have got by with it and not been sued or went to jail, you wouldn't have even paid them.  But sometimes, shit happens.   

Chrysler is not a good example here ya know.
None of you know how bad off these companies were in when they were restructured so how can you really judge what went on?  It may have been the only thing that could be done to make them work.  You are taking things at face value going on what you are told to believe without really knowing facts, as you so fondly tell me all the time,  and letting emotion cloud your judgement.  From the looks of things in the examples I showed most of these companies have now expanded and have hired more employees and business is booming as opposed to being ready to shut their doors. 

[Palehorse]

[Palehorse]

Chrysler is not a good example here ya know.
None of you know how bad off these companies were in when they were restructured so how can you really judge what went on? 

And neither do you. The difference is you are willing to just accept the propaganda at face value. "How dare we question that based upon real life experience and knowledge!" 

It may have been the only thing that could be done to make them work.  You are taking things at face value going on what you are told to believe without really knowing facts, as you so fondly tell me all the time,  and letting emotion cloud your judgement.  From the looks of things in the examples I showed most of these companies have now expanded and have hired more employees and business is booming as opposed to being ready to shut their doors.

Pot - Kettle. Change the names of the companies to General Motors and Chrysler, and the capital investment firm to the United States Government and you will instantly take the opposing position!

[Palehorse]

It is not an easy thing to do but, yes, especially if they have become dead wood which is the case a lot of times.
Yes, especially if they aren't performing which also may be the case.
Yes, if they can go else where and operate cheaper.
Yes, see number one.
Without knowing specifics on the people who were let go you cannot make an informed decision as to what is best for the company to survive.  It is never easy to let someone go like that and I would not like being on the receiving end of it but you are judging without all the facts here.  You are doing what you have accused others of and making a judgement based on feelings rather than practicality.

I'd venture to say that if any one of those impacted by one of these turn and burn initiatives was an immediate family member you'd be singing a different tune.

[followsthewolf]

I'd venture to say that if any one of those impacted by one of these turn and burn initiatives was an immediate family member you'd be singing a different tune.

Subtlety is lost, PH.

[Palehorse]

Subtlety is lost, PH.

[me]

Subtlety is lost, PH.

I said earlier on that I wouldn't like to be the one let go but if it were for the good of the company I'd suck it up and go on.  No one "owes" me anything.  Look at it this way.  If a person has been with a company for 20yrs plus and has saved wisely and are living within their means they shouldn't have a problem and there is someone younger that might be kept on that is trying to raise a family and barely making it they need the job worse.  Sure maybe I look at too many things instead of focusing on the main issue but there is a lot more in play than just one or two people losing jobs here.  No, it isn't pleasant being the one that gets sacrificed but sometimes things have to work that way. 

[The Troll]

I said earlier on that I wouldn't like to be the one let go but if it were for the good of the company I'd suck it up and go on.  No one "owes" me anything.  Look at it this way.  If a person has been with a company for 20yrs plus and has saved wisely and are living within their means they shouldn't have a problem and there is someone younger that might be kept on that is trying to raise a family and barely making it they need the job worse.  Sure maybe I look at too many things instead of focusing on the main issue but there is a lot more in play than just one or two people losing jobs here.  No, it isn't pleasant being the one that gets sacrificed but sometimes things have to work that way.

  Oh my god, after reading this.  I have never heard a person being so ignorant or totally brain dead.  There is no hope for you.  Because you just plain suck.   

[Palehorse]

Just in case you missed this. The above supports Troll's earlier assertion.

[The Troll]

  Flash News college boy Romney plays cop.

  While in college Romney had a full state trooper uniform that his dad gave him.  As governor Mitt's dad had state troopers as guards.   

  Young Mitt would put on this uniform and take his white Pacer car with a flashing red light and pull people over.   

  My question is, isn't that a crime?  They just said on TV that in Michigan it is a crime to in personate a police officer. 

[Locutus]

No, but you completely ignored the point.

THOUSANDS lost their jobs so a tiny number could make tons of money.

That's kind of like reverse-Spockology. 

"The needs of the few, or the one, outweigh the needs of the many."

[me]

That's kind of like reverse-Spockology. 

"The needs of the few, or the one, outweigh the needs of the many."

Isn't the idea of owning a business to make money?