Republican Party, Teabag Party and the Libertarian Party absolutely SUCK!

[followsthewolf]

But would they have survived if things hadn't been scaled back?  They were in trouble is why they were being restructured.  Would you have been more satisfied to see a few lose jobs so the company could survive or the whole company go down the tubes and all of them lose their jobs?

Defend and deny to the end.

[me]

Defend and deny to the end.

Was my question that hard to answer? 

[Henry Hawk]

Okay, lets just think this one through.  Since Gov Walker has taken on the role as leader of Wisconsin:
Wisconsins unemployment rated has dropped! To 6.7 percent, lower than the national average of 8.2 percent.

In 2011, the average  income in Wisconsin was $40,073, according to the nonpartisan Wisconsin Budget Project, slightly lower than the national average of $41,663. Wisconsin's average personal income rose higher in 2011  than the national average – 4.8 percent  compared with 4.3 percent.

Walker inherited a $3.6 billion budget deficit.....According to figures from the Wisconsin Department of Administration, Wisconsin will have a positive budget balance of $154.5 million or, in other terms, a surplus of $89.5 million, by June 30, 2013. (Roughly $65 million of the $154.5 million is a modest reserve for the state, so it can't be spent by an administration.)

Property taxes are down. Fraudulent sick leave policies—which allowed employees to call in sick and then work the next shift for overtime pay—have been ended. The government has stopped forcibly collecting union dues from workers' paychecks.
Best of all, the myth that union bosses represent their members' interests has been exposed as a lie. Now that union dues are voluntary, tens of thousands of union members have stopped paying them.  Membership in the Wisconsin chapter of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees union (AFSCME) has dropped by half. Membership in the stat's American Federation of Teachers (AFT) is down by over a third. Given unions' influential role in most elections, the national implications of this trend are staggering.

And to boot, this is the best part too!

The people of Wisconsin VOTED, TWICE!  and Walker prevailed!

This is a big step for our country!

[The Troll]

  Well, the bad news has come.  It is a fact that you can buy an election.   

  Scott Walker won his recall election.  After spending $29 Million of his campaign money and putting back $100,000 in his criminal defense fund and $16 Million of outside funds.  Against $3 Million of Tom Barret campaign funds and $6 Million outside funds.

  The outcome was $45 Million Republican to $9 Million Democrat funds  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. 


  All of this comes from the Republican controlled Supreme Court.  It's go to prove America is on it's way to be a corporate and super rich controlled country.

  What is it that they say, the golden rule, the ones who owns the gold rules.  Where does our freedoms goes from here. 
Thanks Supreme Court of the United States, you have killed us.       

  We all knew when the Republican bought Supreme Court passed the law making corporation the same as human beings with special privileges of spending all the money they wanted in an election secretly.  We with the brains knew they would start buying every politician there was towns, cities, counties, states and America.

  It isn't hard to see the great crime has been committed by the people at the top, the Supreme Court, the people who has been given a life time job, supposedly free from all outside influences, to keep out country a true and free country.

  So much for that bullshit.  We have been sold out to the highest bidders.  The Super Rich and the Corporations.  Who would have thought this would come out and be so open about it, to the point of bragging about it. 

  Tell me what we can do when so many people have become drunk on the poison Kool-Aid the Republican Party and the Tea Party has been selling to the dumbasses for Millions and Millions of dollars.  Mark my word, nothing good will come of this, all of us will pay, pay big time for this.  Thanks George W.       

                                                     

                                                     

[followsthewolf]

Was my question that hard to answer?

No, but you completely ignored the point.

THOUSANDS lost their jobs so a tiny number could make tons of money.

But, of course, to you that is perfectly fine. It doesn't affect you, so it's ok.

And that's how it should be.

Are we to be our brother's keeper?

I think not. Screw them. They aren't important, anyway.

They are not worth thinking about.

Low lifes.

[me]

No, but you completely ignored the point.

THOUSANDS lost their jobs so a tiny number could make tons of money.

But, of course, to you that is perfectly fine. It doesn't affect you, so it's ok.

And that's how it should be.

Are we to be our brother's keeper?

I think not. Screw them. They aren't important, anyway.

They are not worth thinking about.

Low lifes.

The companies were going under and he helped restructure them.  Yes, some lost their jobs but all would have lost had the company not been restructured.  Sure a few of the companies didn't make it anyway but the ones that did are still in business and doing well.  Would it have been better to just let these companies go under and lose all of their employees?  No, all the companies weren't saved but there are bound to be failures.  The ones that were saved are employing thousands which is a good thing even though some lost their jobs in the process.  Yes, it's hard if you're one of the ones let go but had the company not been saved they would have all lost.  What is so hard to figure out about that?  You're failing to see the good since the bad part is all that is being drummed into your head in trying to make Romney look like the bad guy here. 

[me]

  We all knew when the Republican bought Supreme Court passed the law making corporation the same as human beings with special privileges of spending all the money they wanted in an election secretly.  We with the brains knew they would start buying every politician there was towns, cities, counties, states and America.

  It isn't hard to see the great crime has been committed by the people at the top, the Supreme Court, the people who has been given a life time job, supposedly free from all outside influences, to keep out country a true and free country.

  So much for that bullshit.  We have been sold out to the highest bidders.  The Super Rich and the Corporations.  Who would have thought this would come out and be so open about it, to the point of bragging about it. 

  Tell me what we can do when so many people have become drunk on the poison Kool-Aid the Republican Party and the Tea Party has been selling to the dumbasses for Millions and Millions of dollars.  Mark my word, nothing good will come of this, all of us will pay, pay big time for this.  Thanks George W.       

                                                     

                                                     

The voters ignored the BS and voted him in on what they were seeing positive going on in their state period.  The corporations had nothing to do with it.

[Palehorse]

The companies were going under and he helped restructure them.  Yes, some lost their jobs but all would have lost had the company not been restructured.  Sure a few of the companies didn't make it anyway but the ones that did are still in business and doing well.  Would it have been better to just let these companies go under and lose all of their employees?  No, all the companies weren't saved but there are bound to be failures.  The ones that were saved are employing thousands which is a good thing even though some lost their jobs in the process.  Yes, it's hard if you're one of the ones let go but had the company not been saved they would have all lost.  What is so hard to figure out about that?  You're failing to see the good since the bad part is all that is being drummed into your head in trying to make Romney look like the bad guy here.

Had you ever worked for a company that was subjected to this kind of "restructuring", (And I have worked for several), you'd see how wrong the above is.

• IS it right that people with 30+ years with a company are among the first let go?
• IS it right that these tenured people are put onto the streets, in many cases without anything more than a week's pay for every year of service, and in some cases with not even that?
• IS it right when the company is intentionally shut down and the work moved elsewhere?
• IS it right that workers with less than 5 years are kept on while those who devoted a lifetime in service to a company are sent packing?

And as conservatives increasingly hold hostage the social safety nets that have allowed the victims of the "restructuring" the opportunity to try to survive the devastation, just what do you think they are going to do without them moving forward? Do you even care?


How ironic is it that you are backing this approach toward business when out of the other side of your mouth you use the governments execution of the same process with the automotive sector as a stick to beat him over the head?[/list]

[me]

Had you ever worked for a company that was subjected to this kind of "restructuring", (And I have worked for several), you'd see how wrong the above is.




• IS it right that people with 30+ years with a company are among the first let go?
• IS it right that these tenured people are put onto the streets, in many cases without anything more than a week's pay for every year of service, and in some cases with not even that?
• IS it right when the company is intentionally shut down and the work moved elsewhere?
• IS it right that workers with less than 5 years are kept on while those who devoted a lifetime in service to a company are sent packing?

And as conservatives increasingly hold hostage the social safety nets that have allowed the victims of the "restructuring" the opportunity to try to survive the devastation, just what do you think they are going to do without them moving forward? Do you even care?


How ironic is it that you are backing this approach toward business when out of the other side of your mouth you use the governments execution of the same process with the automotive sector as a stick to beat him over the head?

This argument makes it sound an awful lot like you are saying let the entire company sink rather than do what has to be done to restructure. 

[Palehorse]

This argument makes it sound an awful lot like you are saying let the entire company sink rather than do what has to be done to restructure.

Was/is that not your personal take, and that of the conservative faction, where the automotive industry is concerned?

Moreover, you have not addressed the four questions:

• IS it right that people with 30+ years with a company are among the first let go?
• IS it right that these tenured people are put onto the streets, in many cases without anything more than a week's pay for every year of service, and in some cases with not even that?
• IS it right when the company is intentionally shut down and the work moved elsewhere?
• IS it right that workers with less than 5 years are kept on while those who devoted a lifetime in service to a company are sent packing?

[/list]

[me]

Was/is that not your personal take, and that of the conservative faction, where the automotive industry is concerned?

Moreover, you have not addressed the four questions:

Quote from: Palehorse on Today at 10:34:01 AM

            IS it right that people with 30+ years with a company are among the first let go?
            IS it right that these tenured people are put onto the streets, in many cases without anything more than a week's pay for every year of service, and in some cases with not even that?
            IS it right when the company is intentionally shut down and the work moved elsewhere?
            IS it right that workers with less than 5 years are kept on while those who devoted a lifetime in service to a company are sent packing?

It is not an easy thing to do but, yes, especially if they have become dead wood which is the case a lot of times.
Yes, especially if they aren't performing which also may be the case.
Yes, if they can go else where and operate cheaper.
Yes, see number one.
Without knowing specifics on the people who were let go you cannot make an informed decision as to what is best for the company to survive.  It is never easy to let someone go like that and I would not like being on the receiving end of it but you are judging without all the facts here.  You are doing what you have accused others of and making a judgement based on feelings rather than practicality. 

[Exterminator]

Had you ever worked...

You could have stopped with just this and saved yourself a lot of typing.  BTW, you're arguing business with someone with no knowledge of or experience in it.[/list]

[The Troll]

Was/is that not your personal take, and that of the conservative faction, where the automotive industry is concerned?

Moreover, you have not addressed the four questions:
[/list]

  As you have seen, she doesn't give a damn about people and their plight.  All she cares about is the corporations and the rich.  I  don't see how some white trash people who has been lucky enough to have had the benefits of union benefits, Social Security and Medicare doesn't want other people to earn a fair working wage and the benefits they have had.

  As hard as I have tried to see her side of her scabby thoughts, it just don't make sense to me.  It just means that she doesn't have a heart or as the Christians believe, a soul.     Black to the bone.   

[followsthewolf]

It is not an easy thing to do but, yes, especially if they have become dead wood which is the case a lot of times.
Yes, especially if they aren't performing which also may be the case.
Yes, if they can go else where and operate cheaper.
Yes, see number one.
Without knowing specifics on the people who were let go you cannot make an informed decision as to what is best for the company to survive.  It is never easy to let someone go like that and I would not like being on the receiving end of it but you are judging without all the facts here.  You are doing what you have accused others of and making a judgement based on feelings rather than practicality.

And not a word about the upper level management who would have let these companies get in this shape.

*cricket*

[me]

And not a word about the upper level management who would have let these companies get in this shape.

*cricket*

Upper lvl management is where they should start because if it had been managed properly in the first place they wouldn't have been in the shape they were in.  Those are usually the ones with the most seniority too. 
I suppose Troll's answer would be get a union and raise their wages.....well duh....they're already in trouble how could that be practical? 

Question to Troll. What would your answer be to restructuring a company who was losing money so they didn't have to close it's doors?

Ex what would be your solution?  Would you keep everyone on at their current wage and hours? 

Would closing the door putting everyone out of work have been a better solution so a few could keep their jobs?