Republican Party, Teabag Party and the Libertarian Party absolutely SUCK!

[Henry Hawk]

And only a ....

would ignore the real facts of the Fisker cars. Only one model of the line was produced in Finland. Even your beloved Faux news couldn't ignore the fact that they are already hiring workers for the Delaware plant.

so tell us exactly HOW many people are they going to hire...can yo do that?

[The Troll]

                                           Romney's Stunning Economy Plan     


                                            Keep the Bush tax cuts for the rich.  Cut taxes for the Super Rich Corporations.

                                                        How could anyone in their right mind vote for this SOB.

[Bo D]

so tell us exactly HOW many people are they going to hire...can yo do that?

Certainly!

"The initial round of hiring for the Delaware plant will involve 40 employees in the engineering and electro-mechanical fields this summer, with 80 production workers being brought on board in the fall. Advertisements for the positions will be posted this weekend. Company executives have previously said that they expect to create 2,000 jobs at the facility and an additional 3,000 supplier jobs by 2014 when production reaches its full output of between 75,000 and 100,000 vehicles per year, half of those set for export."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/06/22/fisker-automotive-to-begin-hiring-workers-at-delaware-plant/#ixzz1biRMnU7w

[The Troll]

Certainly!

"The initial round of hiring for the Delaware plant will involve 40 employees in the engineering and electro-mechanical fields this summer, with 80 production workers being brought on board in the fall. Advertisements for the positions will be posted this weekend. Company executives have previously said that they expect to create 2,000 jobs at the facility and an additional 3,000 supplier jobs by 2014 when production reaches its full output of between 75,000 and 100,000 vehicles per year, half of those set for export."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/06/22/fisker-automotive-to-begin-hiring-workers-at-delaware-plant/#ixzz1biRMnU7w

  Boy oh boy, that should put the Hawk in his place, it came from Fox News.  Hee, hee, hee,   

[Henry Hawk]

Certainly!

"The initial round of hiring for the Delaware plant will involve 40 employees in the engineering and electro-mechanical fields this summer, with 80 production workers being brought on board in the fall. Advertisements for the positions will be posted this weekend. Company executives have previously said that they expect to create 2,000 jobs at the facility and an additional 3,000 supplier jobs by 2014 when production reaches its full output of between 75,000 and 100,000 vehicles per year, half of those set for export."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/06/22/fisker-automotive-to-begin-hiring-workers-at-delaware-plant/#ixzz1biRMnU7w

Okay, let get serious for a moment guys...

First of all, do you honestly believe they wil sell 75,000 to 100,000?  really? 

the ford taurus only sold less than 70,000 last year and they were NOT $96,000 but $26,000.

This hybrid stuff is NOT catching on quite right now....the Chevy Volt sold less 4,000 last year and they was about half the price and they was 2011 GREEN car of the year.

Yeah, TROLL, that REALLY put me in my place...

[Bo D]

Okay, let get serious for a moment guys...

First of all, do you honestly believe they wil sell 75,000 to 100,000?  really? 

the ford taurus only sold less than 70,000 last year and they were NOT $96,000 but $26,000.

This hybrid stuff is NOT catching on quite right now....the Chevy Volt sold less 4,000 last year and they was about half the price and they was 2011 GREEN car of the year.

Yeah, TROLL, that REALLY put me in my place...

That isn't the point. It was originally posted that the Obama administration loaned millions to Fisker only to have them outsource manufacturing to Finland.

Yet another example of deceptive posting.

[Henry Hawk]

That isn't the point. It was originally posted that the Obama administration loaned millions to Fisker only to have them outsource manufacturing to Finland.

Yet another example of deceptive posting.

but you said the following:
"The initial round of hiring for the Delaware plant will involve 40 employees in the engineering and electro-mechanical fields this summer, with 80 production workers being brought on board in the fall. Advertisements for the positions will be posted this weekend. Company executives have previously said that they expect to create 2,000 jobs at the facility and an additional 3,000 supplier jobs by 2014 when production reaches its full output of between 75,000 and 100,000 vehicles per year, half of those set for export."

and then I posted mine and I ask you, do you believe that it sell 75000 cars by 2014?

[me]

but you said the following:
"The initial round of hiring for the Delaware plant will involve 40 employees in the engineering and electro-mechanical fields this summer, with 80 production workers being brought on board in the fall. Advertisements for the positions will be posted this weekend. Company executives have previously said that they expect to create 2,000 jobs at the facility and an additional 3,000 supplier jobs by 2014 when production reaches its full output of between 75,000 and 100,000 vehicles per year, half of those set for export."

and then I posted mine and I ask you, do you believe that it sell 75000 cars by 2014?

What they are missing is the fact that it is all pure speculation and not set in stone about the number of jobs it will create here.  They are also missing how much pr. job that little loan cost pr job created.  We're talkin' almost 3yrs for those few jobs to be created also and how many are unemployed now let alone almost 3yrs from now if things don't turn around.  I know of two at least they will sell, one to Gore who loves them and I think there's a movie director who is all for them too. 

[me]

Update: Fisker Karma Electric Car Gets Worse Mileage Than an SUV




The Fisker Karma electric car, developed mainly with your tax money so that a bunch of rich VC's wouldn't have to risk any real money, has rolled out with an nominal EPA MPGe of 52 in all electric mode (we will ignore the gasoline engine for this analysis).

Not bad?  Unfortunately, it's a sham.  This figure is calculated using the grossly flawed EPA process that substantially underestimates the amount of fossil fuels required to power the electric car, as I showed in great depth in an earlier Forbes.com article.  In short, the EPA methodology leaves out, among other things, the conversion efficiency in generating the electricity from fossil fuels in the first place [by assuming perfect conversion of the potential energy in the fuel to electricity, the EPA is actually breaking the 2nd law of thermodynamics].

In the Clinton administration, the Department of Energy (DOE) created a far superior well to wheels MPGe metric that honestly compares the typical fossil fuel use of an electric vs. gasoline car, using real-world power plant efficiencies and fuel mixes to figure out how much fuel is used to produce the electricity that goes into the electric car.

As I calculated in my earlier Forbes article, one needs to multiply the EPA MPGe by .365 to get a number that truly compares fossil fuel use of an electric car with a traditional gasoline engine car on an apples to apples basis.  In the case of the Fisker Karma, we get a true MPGe of 19.  This makes it worse than even the city rating of a Ford Explorer SUV.

Congrats to the Fisker Karma, which now joins corn ethanol in the ranks of heavily subsidized supposedly green technologies that are actually worse for the environment than current solutions.

Postscript:  I will say, though, that the Fisker Karma does serve a social purpose — Hollywood celebrities and the ultra rich, who want to display their green credentials, no longer have to be stuck with a little econobox.   They can now enjoy a little leg room and luxury.

Updates: Just to clarify, given some email I have gotten.   Most other publications have focused on the 20 mpg the EPA gives the Karma on its backup gasoline engine (example), but my focus is on just how bad the car is even in all electric mode.    The calculation in the above article only applies to the car running on electric, and the reduction in MPGe I discuss is from applying the more comprehensive DOE methodology for getting an MPG equivalent, not from some sort of averaging with gasoline mode.  Again, see this article if you don't understand the issue with the EPA methodology.

Press responses from Fisker Automotive highlight the problem here:  electric vehicle makers want to pretend that the electricity to charge the car comes from magic sparkle ponies sprinkling pixie dust rather than burning fossil fuels. Take this quote, for example:

    a Karma driver with a 40-mile commute who starts each day with a full battery charge will only need to visit the gas station about every 1,000 miles and would use just 9 gallons of gasoline per month.

This is true as far as it goes, but glosses over the fact that someone is still pouring fossil fuels into a tank somewhere to make that electricity.  This seems more a car to hide the fact that fossil fuels are being burned than one designed to actually reduce fossil fuel use.  Given the marketing pitch here that relies on the unseen vs. the seen, maybe we should rename it the Fisker Bastiat.

Update #2: I suppose it is too late for this plea, commenters who wish to hypothesize on methodological flaws are highly encouraged to read the original linked post explaining the math.  For example, a number of folks have suggested I missed the fact that refining takes substantial energy as well.  In fact, the DOE methodology used doesn't just penalize electric cars for combustion inefficiencies in the power plant, it also penalizes gasoline cars for the energy in gasoline refining and transportation.

Update #3: Here is a special bonus, Ray Lane, Chairman of Fisker Automotive, did an interview in 2009 praising the Obama Administration as the first time he has seen government successfully making private investments.  His one example:  Solyndra!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenmeyer/2011/10/20/update-fisker-karma-electric-car-gets-worse-mileage-than-an-suv/

[The Troll]

Update: Fisker Karma Electric Car Gets Worse Mileage Than an SUV




The Fisker Karma electric car, developed mainly with your tax money so that a bunch of rich VC's wouldn't have to risk any real money, has rolled out with an nominal EPA MPGe of 52 in all electric mode (we will ignore the gasoline engine for this analysis).

Not bad?  Unfortunately, it's a sham.  This figure is calculated using the grossly flawed EPA process that substantially underestimates the amount of fossil fuels required to power the electric car, as I showed in great depth in an earlier Forbes.com article.  In short, the EPA methodology leaves out, among other things, the conversion efficiency in generating the electricity from fossil fuels in the first place [by assuming perfect conversion of the potential energy in the fuel to electricity, the EPA is actually breaking the 2nd law of thermodynamics].

In the Clinton administration, the Department of Energy (DOE) created a far superior well to wheels MPGe metric that honestly compares the typical fossil fuel use of an electric vs. gasoline car, using real-world power plant efficiencies and fuel mixes to figure out how much fuel is used to produce the electricity that goes into the electric car.

As I calculated in my earlier Forbes article, one needs to multiply the EPA MPGe by .365 to get a number that truly compares fossil fuel use of an electric car with a traditional gasoline engine car on an apples to apples basis.  In the case of the Fisker Karma, we get a true MPGe of 19.  This makes it worse than even the city rating of a Ford Explorer SUV.

Congrats to the Fisker Karma, which now joins corn ethanol in the ranks of heavily subsidized supposedly green technologies that are actually worse for the environment than current solutions.

Postscript:  I will say, though, that the Fisker Karma does serve a social purpose — Hollywood celebrities and the ultra rich, who want to display their green credentials, no longer have to be stuck with a little econobox.   They can now enjoy a little leg room and luxury.

Updates: Just to clarify, given some email I have gotten.   Most other publications have focused on the 20 mpg the EPA gives the Karma on its backup gasoline engine (example), but my focus is on just how bad the car is even in all electric mode.    The calculation in the above article only applies to the car running on electric, and the reduction in MPGe I discuss is from applying the more comprehensive DOE methodology for getting an MPG equivalent, not from some sort of averaging with gasoline mode.  Again, see this article if you don't understand the issue with the EPA methodology.

Press responses from Fisker Automotive highlight the problem here:  electric vehicle makers want to pretend that the electricity to charge the car comes from magic sparkle ponies sprinkling pixie dust rather than burning fossil fuels. Take this quote, for example:

    a Karma driver with a 40-mile commute who starts each day with a full battery charge will only need to visit the gas station about every 1,000 miles and would use just 9 gallons of gasoline per month.

This is true as far as it goes, but glosses over the fact that someone is still pouring fossil fuels into a tank somewhere to make that electricity.  This seems more a car to hide the fact that fossil fuels are being burned than one designed to actually reduce fossil fuel use.  Given the marketing pitch here that relies on the unseen vs. the seen, maybe we should rename it the Fisker Bastiat.

Update #2: I suppose it is too late for this plea, commenters who wish to hypothesize on methodological flaws are highly encouraged to read the original linked post explaining the math.  For example, a number of folks have suggested I missed the fact that refining takes substantial energy as well.  In fact, the DOE methodology used doesn't just penalize electric cars for combustion inefficiencies in the power plant, it also penalizes gasoline cars for the energy in gasoline refining and transportation.

Update #3: Here is a special bonus, Ray Lane, Chairman of Fisker Automotive, did an interview in 2009 praising the Obama Administration as the first time he has seen government successfully making private investments.  His one example:  Solyndra!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenmeyer/2011/10/20/update-fisker-karma-electric-car-gets-worse-mileage-than-an-suv/

  You damn Teabagger just want to stick your head in the sand and do nothing.  You're just like the Do nothing Tea/Republican congress.  Nothing worth a damn.

  Hawk it's just like you didn't want to save the American Auto industry.  Stupid 

[me]

  You damn Teabagger just want to stick your head in the sand and do nothing.  You're just like the Do nothing Tea/Republican congress.  Nothing worth a damn.

  Hawk it's just like you didn't want to save the American Auto industry.  Stupid 

How is this car being built in Finland saving the American Auto industry Troll?  Now keep in mind that only 40 jobs are being created here now and the other jobs won't take effect 'til 2014 and then only a few thousand, maybe. 

[Henry Hawk]

How is this car being built in Finland saving the American Auto industry Troll?  Now keep in mind that only 40 jobs are being created here now and the other jobs won't take effect 'til 2014 and then only a few thousand, maybe. 

that's if it isn't a bust like the Chevy Volt........only selling less than 4000.

Troll, why is it you are okay for SOME money to going to "foreign auto's"?  I thought you was true blue Ameican? I guess since it was Obama and the democrats that made this deal it is OKAY? right?

[Bo D]

but you said the following:
"The initial round of hiring for the Delaware plant will involve 40 employees in the engineering and electro-mechanical fields this summer, with 80 production workers being brought on board in the fall. Advertisements for the positions will be posted this weekend. Company executives have previously said that they expect to create 2,000 jobs at the facility and an additional 3,000 supplier jobs by 2014 when production reaches its full output of between 75,000 and 100,000 vehicles per year, half of those set for export."

and then I posted mine and I ask you, do you believe that it sell 75000 cars by 2014?

AGAIN..... that isn't the point!

I ask you again ... was it, or was it not a deceptive post to state that the Obama administration loaned millions to Fisker only to have them outsource manufacturing to Finland?

Simple question, really.

[Bo D]

How is this car being built in Finland saving the American Auto industry Troll?  Now keep in mind that only 40 jobs are being created here now and the other jobs won't take effect 'til 2014 and then only a few thousand, maybe.

Not only do you post other people's lies, you really can't read and comprehend.

"40 employees in the engineering and electro-mechanical fields this summer, with 80 production workers being brought on board in the fall."

Please try to keep up. That's 120 immediate jobs. As for the other 5,000 jobs, when is the last time you heard of a small manufacturer hitting the ground at full speed?

[me]

Not only do you post other people's lies, you really can't read and comprehend.

"40 employees in the engineering and electro-mechanical fields this summer, with 80 production workers being brought on board in the fall."

Please try to keep up. That's 120 immediate jobs. As for the other 5,000 jobs, when is the last time you heard of a small manufacturer hitting the ground at full speed?

And you know this is going to happen for a fact?  That is a small number of jobs compared to the number of people who are without work and when you consider that it may happen in almost 3yrs it does no one any good now.