Republican Party, Teabag Party and the Libertarian Party absolutely SUCK!

[Palehorse]

(Quoted from a hijacked topic surrounding the 60's)

It's awfully frustrating trying to constantly explain or clarify one's position, when the opposition exclusively utilizes circular logic without credible substantiation. . . 

How "SOP" is it that the republican party took a very valid and workable bill, spun the hell out of it and added a ton of pork and changes that turned the entire purpose of the bill 180 degrees, then currently stand back and try to blame all the faults with what they passed upon the originator? 

How completely frustrating is it to see the very predictions I made back when the republicans began their evil initiative surrounding health care, come to fruition? (Skyrocketing healthcare premiums for one; with 2011 plan year increases busting the 33% range fairly regularly).

The average republican wage earner steadfastly stands around squalling over healthcare reform simply because their "party" leadership called it "government run" when in reality the original legislation was simply nothing more than a relaunch of governmental regulation; that if memory serves me was removed from the healthcare insurance industry by the republicans! (Enabling the roughshod abuse of the insured for decades now, and bringing us to the out of control manner in which the entire industry reaps profits that compete with big oil!) 

(And before you start pontificating why don't you google the Airline deregulation act of 1978).

The deregulation movement started when Carter signed the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. Later, as it spread from energy to trucking to telecommunications to financial services, etc., the rallying cry was the same: Less regulation, more growth. The whole time the underlying theme was one that seemed to say that Americans can trust business to "do the right things" in an environment of competition. HAH! 

[Palehorse]

And within that very same time frame, our elected officials have opened the flood gates toward flight from our shores of manufacturing operations. (Hence the job issue we have been struggling with). And unless we take immediate steps to reverse that damage and quite soon, as we begin to reinstate regulatory control over various industries in this country, we'll begin to see increased incidents of corporate flight form our shores in order to escape it!

Hoffman La Roche is a prime example of this, as they continue to move manufacturing operations overseas in order to escape FDA regulatory requirements of their operations. Their competition is already looking to do the same!

[Nighthawk]

What regulation / corrective action(s) were imposed upon healthcare by that bill they passed?

Did you even bother to read either version?

If you had, it would have prevented the quoted post. . .

Post healthcare bill annual premiums jumped HIGHER than they have prior to the passage of it! The whole point behind that legislation was to protect the insured from insidious practices and policies, and to install measures to prevent specious premium increases! (FAIL FAIL FAIL!)

She asked two very valid questions.

What pork was added to the bill?

What changes did they get to make?

I'll add another one.

What changes did they make that 'made the bill a republican bill'?

[Palehorse]

She asked two very valid questions.

What pork was added to the bill?

What changes did they get to make?

I'll add another one.

What changes did they make that 'made the bill a republican bill'?

You can read can't you?

I am not your personal edition of "Cliff Notes", and since you have never been inclined to provide credible sourcing for any of your positions I am not inclined to start anytime soon.

Support your own position(s) as requested and I will rebut them in the same manner. Practice "say it and it is so" methodology and do NOT expect anyone to do your homework for you!

Neither one of you (the other being "me") carry anything near credibility; due to your proclivity for failing to support your positions. Repeatedly.

How you can expect to carry any weight that would provide you with justification for requiring what you regularly fail to provide is hilarious!

[Nighthawk]

You can read can't you?

I am not your personal edition of "Cliff Notes", and since you have never been inclined to provide credible sourcing for any of your positions I am not inclined to start anytime soon.

Support your own position(s) as requested and I will rebut them in the same manner. Practice "say it and it is so" methodology and do NOT expect anyone to do your homework for you!

Neither one of you (the other being "me") carry anything near credibility; due to your proclivity for failing to support your positions. Repeatedly.

How you can expect to carry any weight that would provide you with justification for requiring what you regularly fail to provide is hilarious!

In other words, you can't answer the questions.

[Palehorse]

In other words, you can't answer the questions.

No. . . In other words, you are lethargic and to put it bluntly, lazy! And I refuse to be an enabler of it!

You can start reading here. . . http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=15404.0

I am not in the habit of covering old ground and repeating links to information previously supplied, and repeatedly. . . 

[The Troll]

No. . . In other words, you are lethargic and to put it bluntly, lazy! And I refuse to be an enabler of it!

You can start reading here. . . http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=15404.0

I am not in the habit of covering old ground and repeating links to information previously supplied, and repeatedly. . . 

  The Night Dork wants to question you on everything, because he know nothing.  The only thing he reads is Tea Party, Republican Party bloggs.

  From the dark of the night we hear the scream of the big mouth Goat Sucker.  I don't get any respect.  Hee, hee, hee.  Doo, Daa, Doo, Daa.  Grin2:

[Nighthawk]

No. . . In other words, you are lethargic and to put it bluntly, lazy! And I refuse to be an enabler of it!

You can start reading here. . . http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=15404.0

I am not in the habit of covering old ground and repeating links to information previously supplied, and repeatedly. . . 

Nice try. I went through that thread and nowhere does it address any 'pork' amendments or republican amendments. The only links that may have been relevant to the questions asked are two links to a version of the bill and an analysis a few days before it passed. Neither of these links provide information on who submitted any of the amendments.

So our questions still stand unanswered.

[The Troll]

No. . . In other words, you are lethargic and to put it bluntly, lazy! And I refuse to be an enabler of it!

You can start reading here. . . http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=15404.0

I am not in the habit of covering old ground and repeating links to information previously supplied, and repeatedly. . . 

  It goes to show you there is no hidding place on the earth when the United States wants you.  Even if you're a black box.  Do you think the rag heads could find Osama Bin Ladens body in the ocean.    

[Palehorse]

Nice try. I went through that thread and nowhere does it address any 'pork' amendments or republican amendments. The only links that may have been relevant to the questions asked are two links to a version of the bill and an analysis a few days before it passed. Neither of these links provide information on who submitted any of the amendments.

So our questions still stand unanswered.

So. . . in your definition of "pork", removal of the "teeth" within any piece of legislation, designed to completely reverse the intended impact of the original bill, and to nurture the continuation of current policy and practices undertaken by the targeted industry, do not qualify? Enacting requirements within said legislation that not only nurture but exacerbate the negative impact upon the "customers" of the targeted industry are not pork?

If you don't "get it" you never will. You think your questions stand unanswered? How about these, which you typically "answer" via your SOP entitled, "duck and run". . . (Even when someone separates them out and creates a new topic to increase visibility of the issues).

http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=17774.0

And as a point, the exact phrasing was "pork and changes". . . Nice spin. . .  (Which demonstrates you are indeed capable of learning. Clearly you acquired that technique from "Faux News", so you can learn. Perhaps the written genre is not the venue that facilitates your natural / preferred learning method!?)

I say they are answered without question; and no amount of circular logic will convince anyone with even the most basic level of critical thought skills otherwise.

As my esteemed colleague said earlier of another poster in another topic that was diverted toward this subject:

You know what? Never mind. I may as well have been speaking in Hebrew. You accuse EVERY one of being sheep, but I've yet to see you post a source that wasn't editorialized or an original document. You don't know what a creditble source is and have never researched the source of your sources. You want to assume that if they agree with what you want to think, that's good enough, so just forget it.

And as you replied elsewhere in a post toward me: . . ."that applies to you too"!


(Now, compare these to the original bill as submitted by the POTUS)
http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/healthreform_sbs_full.pdf

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8061.pdf

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/st_healthcareproposals_20090912.html

[Nighthawk]

So. . . in your definition of "pork", removal of the "teeth" within any piece of legislation, designed to completely reverse the intended impact of the original bill, and to nurture the continuation of current policy and practices undertaken by the targeted industry, do not qualify? Enacting requirements within said legislation that not only nurture but exacerbate the negative impact upon the "customers" of the targeted industry are not pork?

If you don't "get it" you never will. You think your questions stand unanswered? How about these, which you typically "answer" via your SOP entitled, "duck and run". . . (Even when someone separates them out and creates a new topic to increase visibility of the issues).

http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=17774.0

And as a point, the exact phrasing was "pork and changes". . . Nice spin. . . 

I say they are answered without question; and no amount of circular logic will convince anyone with even the most basic level of critical thought skills otherwise.

As my esteemed colleague said earlier of another poster in another topic that was diverted toward this subject:

And as you replied elsewhere in a post toward me: . . ."that applies to you too"!

Exactly what I expected from a liberal/progressive. You slam on us for only parroting 'talking points' when it is obvious that you who does this. We asked a simple question for you to clarify or substantiate your claims that the Obamacare bill was amended and filled with pork to the point that it was no longer a Democrat bill and is now a Republican bill. You refuse to do it, so I'll do it for you.

There are no such amendments to the bill. Obamacare is a wholly Democrat monstrocity. The bill was passed without anyone knowing fully what was in it. In fact most of the amendments that the Republicans proposed were defeated and never made it into the bill. The ones that did were mostly technical, changing a word or phrase for clarity. Any substantial amendments that did make it did not change the bill much.

It looks to me that you have realized that this bill was a major mistake on your party's behalf and are now trying to spin it so it becomes the Republican's fault.

If what you say IS true, why didn't you say something about it in the other thread? Why wait over a year to bring it up?

[The Troll]

Exactly what I expected from a liberal/progressive. You slam on us for only parroting 'talking points' when it is obvious that you who does this. We asked a simple question for you to clarify or substantiate your claims that the Obamacare bill was amended and filled with pork to the point that it was no longer a Democrat bill and is now a Republican bill. You refuse to do it, so I'll do it for you.

There are no such amendments to the bill. Obamacare is a wholly Democrat monstrocity. The bill was passed without anyone knowing fully what was in it. In fact most of the amendments that the Republicans proposed were defeated and never made it into the bill. The ones that did were mostly technical, changing a word or phrase for clarity. Any substantial amendments that did make it did not change the bill much.

It looks to me that you have realized that this bill was a major mistake on your party's behalf and are now trying to spin it so it becomes the Republican's fault.

If what you say IS true, why didn't you say something about it in the other thread? Why wait over a year to bring it up?

  You sure have been drinking the Tea Party poison kool-aid   Drunk out of your mind Night Jar.  The American people need some health care.  But there is one thin, if you Teabagging Republicans get your way.  There will be no safety net for you.  No health care, no retirement, no help when you old sick and tired.

  With you attitude and what seem to me as being lazy.  If you're in you late 40's of early 50's you have less than 15 years to get the $1.5 million you're going to need in you retirement account.   I really don't think you going to make it. Bull Bat.   

[The Troll]

  Isn't it strange how the use of a name or word can change thinking. 

  Just like Bull Bat, Goat Sucker, Night Jar, and Mosquito Hawk.  Their all the same they are a Night Hawk.  It just like the Republicans have changed the meaning of words.  The way they curl their lips when they say liberal like it is something dirty.  But when you go to the dictionary you see how good it is.  Their code words for blacks.  like he not one of us.  Banana salesman.

  I must say that the Republicans have one of the finest wordsmiths, Frank Luntz.  One of his famous ones is inheritance tax to death tax.  I must say the Republicans are the best when it comes to changing the meaning of words and dirty tricks.  Just like the birthers.    And how the Republicans caught Osama Bin laden with water boarding.   

[The Troll]

  Vell,vell vell, vee have another Republican, Arnold Schwarzenegger to bite the dust.  They can't keep their peckers in their pants.  They have all of the power, fame, money and they won't spend a dollar or two for a fine strong rain coat.   

  It sounds like they start believing their own press, they think they are so  powerful they couldn't possibly get caught.  You know those spermies really don't care how powerful you are.   

[Nighthawk]

  Vell,vell vell, vee have another Republican, Arnold Schwarzenegger to bite the dust.  They can't keep their peckers in their pants.  They have all of the power, fame, money and they won't spend a dollar or two for a fine strong rain coat.   

  It sounds like they start believing their own press, they think they are so  powerful they couldn't possibly get caught.  You know those spermies really don't care how powerful you are.   

Just doing his john Edwards immitation.