Arizona ... Right or wrong?

[Henry Hawk]

Palehorse, I watched the video and read your thread..it is hard to see or make out WHAT is going on in the video...but, all I can say is IF it was an unjustified act, then that patrol agent should be fired and tried if he is guilty..........there are bad apples in every cart....just because this ONE incident happened does not mean it happens all the time....we have stories like this often across this land, where bad cops do stupid things.....that should not wipe out all of the good work that good cops do everyday...

[Henry Hawk]

Yup

right... ...of course it happens all the time doesn't it....all I can do is take you word, but HOW did you know that they was not pulled over for a REAL reason, other than what it appeared to you?....or because the guilty party claimed it happened....


Look, I know that crap happens .... and the focus should be on cleaning up the "f" up law enforcement NOT, simply forcing good cops from doing their jobs....as according to the law.

[me]

Have YOU witnessed someone pulled over JUST because they was not white?..........

I do believe she has a point on that one but it is an entirely different thing and has nothing to do what-so-ever with this situation.  Like I mentioned yesterday.  The only people who are objection to this law are people who don't live in the state or who are illegals.  It is none of our business period they have to protect their citizens. 

[Palehorse]

I do believe she has a point on that one but it is an entirely different thing and has nothing to do what-so-ever with this situation.  Like I mentioned yesterday.  The only people who are objection to this law are people who don't live in the state or who are illegals.  It is none of our business period they have to protect their citizens.

So what you are saying is STFU because you don't live there?  Well, guess what; INDIANA wants to do the very same thing! 

[Henry Hawk]

So what you are saying is STFU because you don't live there?  Well, guess what; INDIANA wants to do the very same thing! 

GOOD!!!

[Palehorse]

GOOD!!!

Did you read this? Did you watch the video? Does the official report match what the video shows?

You should, because this is what you are endorsing.

[Sandy Eggo]

I'd luve to hear the logic which makes you think that racial profiling doeanmt pertain to this topic, "me".

Of course you just ahve to take my word for it Henry. I don't have a video, but I was in the car. I know the person was pulled over b/c his taillight was out. He was subjected to a dozen personal questions and the officer requested that he open trunk. He did. Once the trunk was inspected the policeman asked him to step to the rear of the car so that he could show him the taillight. It was the darndest thing! It worked! Must have been a short.

Until you walk in the shoes of someone of a different race then it's easy for you to sit in your warm and fuzzy land of make-believe that allows you to think these things don't happen on a regular basis.

Secondly, I have friends who are LEOs and I've been privy to conversations about this very subject. They're good officers, but they have their methods. Imagine what happens when a bad officer uses those methods.

Now, the question is...are those methods a violation of the constitution and who is affected when someone has a look, car or is in a neighborhood which trigger those methods.

[me]

I'd luve to hear the logic which makes you think that racial profiling doeanmt pertain to this topic, "me".

Of course you just ahve to take my word for it Henry. I don't have a video, but I was in the car. I know the person was pulled over b/c his taillight was out. He was subjected to a dozen personal questions and the officer requested that he open trunk. He did. Once the trunk was inspected the policeman asked him to step to the rear of the car so that he could show him the taillight. It was the darndest thing! It worked! Must have been a short.

Until you walk in the shoes of someone of a different race then it's easy for you to sit in your warm and fuzzy land of make-believe that allows you to think these things don't happen on a regular basis.

Secondly, I have friends who are LEOs and I've been privy to conversations about this very subject. They're good officers, but they have their methods. Imagine what happens when a bad officer uses those methods.

Now, the question is...are those methods a violation of the constitution and who is affected when someone has a look, car or is in a neighborhood which trigger those methods.

And what happens when one of these illegals or one of the drug cartel kill's or kidnaps an American or one of their  even own to sell into prostitution because nothing at all is being done?  You're argument not even sensible its a lot of what if's and could be's.  The killing, robbing, and kidnapping are real and actually happening.  What about the kid who just got back from Afghanistan who was killed by an illegal in Los Angles recently. He was just let go instead of transported back to Mexico even though he had been in trouble with the law.   Was that right? 

Where in the constitution does it say we have to coddle illegals of any race?   

[Sandy Eggo]

me, you wouldn't know logical if it slapped you upside your head.

So, how is harassing American citizens using subjective reasoning going to protect us from any of those things?

[Palehorse]

. . .
Where in the constitution does it say we have to coddle illegals of any race?   

Again?

. . .
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

. . .

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

. . .

Amendment XIV

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
. . .

[me]

And aren't those people who are fearing for their safety being deprived of their right to:
Amendment XIV

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


I see no where that it states illegal immigrants.  By enforcing the soon to be enacted law they will be giving the citizens protection.

[Palehorse]

And aren't those people who are fearing for their safety being deprived of their right to:
Amendment XIV

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


I see no where that it states illegal immigrants.  By enforcing the soon to be enacted law they will be giving the citizens protection.

And the fly in the ointment is the bolded red portion which your cherry picking completely disregards. So tell me, how many times has this kidnapping, rape, murder, and extortion been undertaken by illegals in Indiana? POOF there goes that logic. . .

Fact is, the crimes you ascribe solely to illegal aliens are in fact committed with far greater frequency, and most often, by citizens of this country!

[LOsborne]

What about the kid who just got back from Afghanistan who was killed by an illegal in Los Angles recently.

Source, please? I want it to put with this one

http://btop.courierpress.com/news/2007/sep/19/court-unravels-name-game/

and this one

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/jun/09/hit-and-runs-lead-three-arrests/?partner=popular

Here in the Devil's Playground we have little compassion for the poor drunken immigrants who have come to this country to do jobs "Americans won't do" -- like crashing into cars, trucks and school buses.

Oops. Nearly forgot this one

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/may/12/honduran-arrested-posey-county-indicted-federal-gu/

[Palehorse]

Source, please? I want it to put with this one

http://btop.courierpress.com/news/2007/sep/19/court-unravels-name-game/

and this one

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/jun/09/hit-and-runs-lead-three-arrests/?partner=popular

Here in the Devil's Playground we have little compassion for the poor drunken immigrants who have come to this country to do jobs "Americans won't do" -- like crashing into cars, trucks and school buses.

Oops. Nearly forgot this one

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/may/12/honduran-arrested-posey-county-indicted-federal-gu/

So, apparently in Indiana the law works just fine as is, and there is no need for this state to clone AZ's draconian law!

NOTE: In example two there was no mention of the three intoxicated individuals being illegally in this country. . .

[LOsborne]

So, apparently in Indiana the law works just fine as is, and there is no need for this state to clone AZ's draconian law!

Not really. See the guy who flipped the school bus, and the guy buying weapons had already been deported at least once each. They kept coming back, and committing more crimes. What's the point in tossing them out, when they just turn around and stroll back in?

And the three drunks in the pickup going the wrong way on divided streets? They're illegal. But so far, the cops haven't been able to pinpoint their real names for the news release.

Sorry, PH, but this is a pet-peeve of mine. Too damn many of them show up at my recruiting calls with the same social security card. I turn them in to ICE every time, but they aren't sent home. If the feds won't enforce the law, somebody has to.

I get real sick of the "they do jobs Americans won't" excuse. They do jobs Americans would love to do, but since they don't draw benefits, collect unemployment or file workers comp claims the companies can get them cheaper than the Americans who would love to have those jobs. We can't compete. The Fair Labor Standards Act and the Wage and Hour Laws won't allow us to compete. The illegals scoff at those laws, just like they scoff at all the others. And the ones who take the jobs apparently bring their deadbeats along with them, to get drunk and flip over school buses full of kids, or run drugs into this country and guns out.

I see no point in trying to close the border. It leaks like a sieve. But there is no excuse for allowing companies to employ illegals ... especially not in this economy.