Arizona ... Right or wrong?

[me]

And whose fault is that? They're following policy!

Ya and that policy sucks but it's been that way for a long time and the pitiful part is the worker can do nothing about it they just have to put up with it.  Either way it goes they get sh*t on.  There are no committee men in this particular situation and no one is a "company" man so the men just have to put up with what the union and the business agent dishes out. The members are not allowed to take a nonunion job to fill in either or they will be kicked out of the union so if their unemployment runs out they're just screwed.

[Palehorse]

Ya and that policy sucks but it's been that way for a long time and the pitiful part is the worker can do nothing about it they just have to put up with it.  Either way it goes they get sh*t on.  There are no committee men in this particular situation and no one is a "company" man so the men just have to put up with what the union and the business agent dishes out. The members are not allowed to take a nonunion job to fill in either or they will be kicked out of the union so if their unemployment runs out they're just screwed.

And this is a hispanic persons fault because?????

[me]

And this is a hispanic persons fault because?????

If he is here illegally he should be sent back not given a job ahead of a journeyman who has done his apprenticeship and he should by no means be sent out ahead of him. If he is here legally why wouldn't he get a union membership?  If it is done like it is supposed to be done permit men are only used if there are no more journeymen to fill the jobs. But, like I stated, if you make waves the union and/or business agent will see to it that you set even longer. Of course they still expect you to pay your dues each month. 

[Palehorse]

If he is here illegally he should be sent back not given a job ahead of a journeyman who has done his apprenticeship and he should by no means be sent out ahead of him. If he is here legally why wouldn't he get a union membership?  If it is done like it is supposed to be done permit men are only used if there are no more journeymen to fill the jobs. But, like I stated, if you make waves the union and/or business agent will see to it that you set even longer. Of course they still expect you to pay your dues each month.

A lot of assumptions being made in that scenario, the foremost of which surrounds the immigration status of the worker(s). Then there's the assumption that the union is doing something against its own by-laws and policies. . . Too many asses in that recipe!

[me]

A lot of assumptions being made in that scenario, the foremost of which surrounds the immigration status of the worker(s). Then there's the assumption that the union is doing something against its own by-laws and policies. . . Too many asses in that recipe!

No, you are trying to excuse it because you don't think there is a problem.  And that is not an assumption on the part of the union policy that is first hand knowledge. 

[Henry Hawk]

We'll see how you feel about it when your daughter marries a man of hispanic ancestry and they give you grandchildren. . .

what does that have to do with the law?................If my daughter marries a man with hispanic ancestry has NOTHING to do with the law....NOW, if my daughter marries a man who broke the law....THAT has ramifications, and who else is there to blame but themselves...

OH, it is the TAX payers problem, right?

[Palehorse]

Go to the link at the bottom and watch the video of this incident. . .

A video obtained by CNN raises questions about a U.S. Border Patrol agent's claim that he fatally shot a 14-year-old boy in Ciudad Juarez while he was surrounded by rock-throwing suspected illegal immigrants.
CNN obtained the video, which was shot by a witness on a cell phone camera from the Mexican side of the border, from affiliate Univision. The video aired on its program Primer Impacto late Wednesday.
The video shows part of the build-up before the incident, with several individuals running underneath the Puente Negro, a railroad span that connects the two countries.
Monday night's incident started around 6:30 p.m. when Customs and Border Protection agents responded to a report of a group of suspected illegal immigrants being smuggled into the United States near the Paso del Norte port of entry, FBI special agent Andrea Simmons said.
In the distance, a U.S. border patrol officer on his bicycle can be seen making his way toward the area. Seconds later, the officer can be seen getting off his bicycle and approaching two of the four suspected Mexican nationals who had just crossed through an opening in the fence. One of the suspects is detained by the officer, but never handcuffed, and instead dragged a short distance. This happened on the U.S. side of the border.
Video: Outrage over border patrol shooting
RELATED TOPICS
Border Control and Customs
Mexico
Moments later, the officer points, what appears to be his firearm in the direction of a second suspect, standing about 60 feet away from the officer -- on the Mexican side of the border. The video shows the suspect running away.
Seconds later, two gunshots can be heard on the video. A third gunshot is heard in a different sequence of the tape. After the shooting, another suspect is seen running in the upper left hand side of screen away from the incident.
"They're throwing rocks," witnesses screaming in Spanish can be heard in the background of the video as the officer opens fire. "They hit him ... they hit him."
The video contradicts Simmons' account who said: "This agent, who had the second subject detained on the ground, gave verbal commands to the remaining subjects to stop and retreat. However, the subjects surrounded the agent and continued to throw rocks at him. The agent then fired his service weapon several times, striking one subject who later died."
The victim, 14-year-old Sergio Adrian Hernandez Guereca, was a secondary student in Juarez.
"The young man was not armed," said Sergio Belmonte, Ciudad Juarez spokesman. "He did not have the physical size to threaten anyone. The aggression (by the U.S. agent) is evident." Belmonte said Hernandez was shot in the head.
"My people have spoken to his family. His dad says he was a straight-A student. His secondary school even sent him on an academic trip because of his good grades," Mayor Jose Reyes Ferriz said.
A memorial for Guereca will be held in Juarez Thursday morning, according to Reyes. Local politicians are expected to attend.
Reports that the Mexican military may have drawn weapons on U.S. border patrol, which surfaced earlier Wednesday, could not be immediately confirmed. The tape released by Univision did not show any Mexican military troops.
"We are aware of those reports, but I cannot confirm them to you at this time," said Mexican military spokesman Enrique Torres. "I plan on speaking with the individuals who are said to have been involved, but I can't and won't confirm that to you. I cannot speculate."
The Mexican government has requested a quick and transparent investigation into the fatal shooting.
Mexico "reiterates that the use of firearms to repel a rock attack represents a disproportionate use of force, particularly coming from authorities who receive specialized training on the matter," the Foreign Ministry said Tuesday in a news release.
. . .

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/10/texas.border.patrol.shooting/index.html?hpt=T2

[Palehorse]

what does that have to do with the law?................If my daughter marries a man with hispanic ancestry has NOTHING to do with the law....NOW, if my daughter marries a man who broke the law....THAT has ramifications, and who else is there to blame but themselves...

OH, it is the TAX payers problem, right?

It's your problem then. He'll look illegal as will their offspring, and that will result in reasonable suspicion. . .

[Henry Hawk]

It's your problem then. He'll look illegal as will their offspring, and that will result in reasonable suspicion. . .

ONLY if they are pulled over for a crime....they cannot just pull someone over because they "look" a certain way...THAT is all the AZ Law says......IF, they pull some over on a routine situation....THEN, and only THEN, and IF they do not have a valid "green" card or drivers licence, then the officials can call customs to check and see IF they are here legally.

Looking illegal is NOT a crime..........being illegal IS a crime.

[Palehorse]

ONLY if they are pulled over for a crime....they cannot just pull someone over because they "look" a certain way...THAT is all the AZ Law says......IF, they pull some over on a routine situation....THEN, and only THEN, and IF they do not have a valid "green" card or drivers licence, then the officials can call customs to check and see IF they are here legally.

Looking illegal is NOT a crime..........being illegal IS a crime.

And just about everyone else in the universe is aware that a cop who really wants to pull someone over will follow you for about 5 minutes, and within that timeframe you will break a traffic law. . . either operations wise or safety equipment wise.  .  .

[Sandy Eggo]

I guess it's been a while since Henry has been pulled over for "driving while white"

[Palehorse]

Go to the link at the bottom and watch the video of this incident. . .

A video obtained by CNN raises questions about a U.S. Border Patrol agent's claim that he fatally shot a 14-year-old boy in Ciudad Juarez while he was surrounded by rock-throwing suspected illegal immigrants.
CNN obtained the video, which was shot by a witness on a cell phone camera from the Mexican side of the border, from affiliate Univision. The video aired on its program Primer Impacto late Wednesday.
The video shows part of the build-up before the incident, with several individuals running underneath the Puente Negro, a railroad span that connects the two countries.
Monday night's incident started around 6:30 p.m. when Customs and Border Protection agents responded to a report of a group of suspected illegal immigrants being smuggled into the United States near the Paso del Norte port of entry, FBI special agent Andrea Simmons said.
In the distance, a U.S. border patrol officer on his bicycle can be seen making his way toward the area. Seconds later, the officer can be seen getting off his bicycle and approaching two of the four suspected Mexican nationals who had just crossed through an opening in the fence. One of the suspects is detained by the officer, but never handcuffed, and instead dragged a short distance. This happened on the U.S. side of the border.
Video: Outrage over border patrol shooting
RELATED TOPICS
Border Control and Customs
Mexico
Moments later, the officer points, what appears to be his firearm in the direction of a second suspect, standing about 60 feet away from the officer -- on the Mexican side of the border. The video shows the suspect running away.
Seconds later, two gunshots can be heard on the video. A third gunshot is heard in a different sequence of the tape. After the shooting, another suspect is seen running in the upper left hand side of screen away from the incident.
"They're throwing rocks," witnesses screaming in Spanish can be heard in the background of the video as the officer opens fire. "They hit him ... they hit him."
The video contradicts Simmons' account who said: "This agent, who had the second subject detained on the ground, gave verbal commands to the remaining subjects to stop and retreat. However, the subjects surrounded the agent and continued to throw rocks at him. The agent then fired his service weapon several times, striking one subject who later died."
The victim, 14-year-old Sergio Adrian Hernandez Guereca, was a secondary student in Juarez.
"The young man was not armed," said Sergio Belmonte, Ciudad Juarez spokesman. "He did not have the physical size to threaten anyone. The aggression (by the U.S. agent) is evident." Belmonte said Hernandez was shot in the head.
"My people have spoken to his family. His dad says he was a straight-A student. His secondary school even sent him on an academic trip because of his good grades," Mayor Jose Reyes Ferriz said.
A memorial for Guereca will be held in Juarez Thursday morning, according to Reyes. Local politicians are expected to attend.
Reports that the Mexican military may have drawn weapons on U.S. border patrol, which surfaced earlier Wednesday, could not be immediately confirmed. The tape released by Univision did not show any Mexican military troops.
"We are aware of those reports, but I cannot confirm them to you at this time," said Mexican military spokesman Enrique Torres. "I plan on speaking with the individuals who are said to have been involved, but I can't and won't confirm that to you. I cannot speculate."
The Mexican government has requested a quick and transparent investigation into the fatal shooting.
Mexico "reiterates that the use of firearms to repel a rock attack represents a disproportionate use of force, particularly coming from authorities who receive specialized training on the matter," the Foreign Ministry said Tuesday in a news release.
. . .

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/10/texas.border.patrol.shooting/index.html?hpt=T2

Did you read this? Did you watch the video? Does the official report match what the video shows?

[Henry Hawk]

I guess it's been a while since Henry has been pulled over for "driving while white"

Have YOU witnessed someone pulled over JUST because they was not white?..........

[Sandy Eggo]

Yup

[Sandy Eggo]

Exactly PH, great illustration of your point.