What's the Common Denominator?

[Palehorse]

We are all familiar with the plethora of recalls that have historically been generated by the "former" big three here in the United States. Heck I would venture to say there are very few of you reading this that have not had to take your car or truck back for recall problems at various points in the past. My 2003 model year 3.4 ton pickup had to go back at least 5 times in the first year I owned it.

Now comes a spate of recalls for auto manufacturers we have traditionally not heard very much from, Honda and Toyota. . . And not just a few hundred or so, but tens of thousands of vehicles and across several model lines in at least one case, and millions of vehicles in the other.

That got me to asking myself a question, and provided the title for this topic; What is the common denominator in these situations?

One thing quickly comes to mind when it comes to answering that question; U.S. workers. . .

What do you think?

[me]

Sorry 'cause I know this is going to get me jumped like crazy but the only one I can think of is unions.  I'm not sure though that Toyota has allowed a union in though so if I'm wrong I apologize in advance but that was the first thing that came to mind.

[Palehorse]

Sorry 'cause I know this is going to get me jumped like crazy but the only one I can think of is unions.  I'm not sure though that Toyota has allowed a union in though so if I'm wrong I apologize in advance but that was the first thing that came to mind.

Well that one crossed my mind too I have to confess. But I do believe you are correct in Toyota not having unions. However, that doesn't necessarily mean they do not have "former" UAW members inside either does it?

[followsthewolf]

Don't know about unions, but I'm pretty sure that Toyota did not build the accelerator systems that are the problem here. Didn't they outsource that part to be built by O.C.S.?

[Palehorse]

Don't know about unions, but I'm pretty sure that Toyota did not build the accelerator systems that are the problem here. Didn't they outsource that part to be built by O.C.S.?

Who in turn claims they followed their instructions to the letter. (They also employ U.S. workers?)

[me]

Well that one crossed my mind too I have to confess. But I do believe you are correct in Toyota not having unions. However, that doesn't necessarily mean they do not have "former" UAW members inside either does it?

True and I have some friends who are former UAW workers.

[me]

My daughter and son-in-law have two of the vehicles being recalled, the Rav4 and the pickup. 

[Palehorse]

Don't know about unions, but I'm pretty sure that Toyota did not build the accelerator systems that are the problem here. Didn't they outsource that part to be built by O.C.S.?

Who in turn claims they followed their instructions to the letter. (They also employ U.S. workers?)

. . .Toyota said that not all of the models listed in the recall have the faulty gas pedals, which were made by CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind.
The recall in the U.S. covers 2.3 million vehicles and involves the 2009-10 RAV4 crossover, the 2009-10 Corolla, the 2009-10 Matrix hatchback, the 2005-10 Avalon, the 2007-10 Camry, the 2010 Highlander crossover, the 2007-10 Tundra pickup and the 2008-10 Sequoia SUV. The recall has been expanded to models in Europe and China. . .

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100129/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_recall

[followsthewolf]

Thanks for the company correction, horse guy. Gettin' old.

Back to the point --  doesn't the fault lie with the engineering?

Unless the line workers didn't build it to specs.

And the last I knew, engineers don't belong to a union.

Jumping to conclusions without thinking?

[Palehorse]

Thanks for the company correction, horse guy. Gettin' old.

Back to the point --  doesn't the fault lie with the engineering?

Unless the line workers didn't build it to specs.

And the last I knew, engineers don't belong to a union.

Jumping to conclusions without thinking?

Which is why I went straight for the worker aspect as opposed to union. I knew we'd eventually get here.

Anyway, okay let's hypothetically say it is the engineers; were they American engineers or other?
I do not have the answer to that one yet. In any case one would think that if it was indeed American engineering, then at some point corporate engineering would have to sign off on the specifications, no?

(I have a point/theory/hypothesis here but I do not want to be the one to necessarily make it. . .)

[followsthewolf]

And I think I know where you're going with that.

[Palehorse]

And I think I know where you're going with that.

Fire at wil then! I'd like all of you to weigh in on this.

[Anne]

Ok, the line workers would have to deliberately sabotage the parts (esp. that many of them). That would entail many people. That would also be deliberately cutting off your income eventually. Not many people would do that. My guess is that it was either 1. a design flaw in the original design that both the original designers missed and also the designers who were supposed to check the original design missed 2. the machines that make the parts were not made to specs 3. inferior materials were used to make the parts leading to early deterioration or 4. someone along this chain (not the line workers) made unauthorized changes in the design or manufacture of the part. Impossible which one of those things happened without further information. What are the other options?

[followsthewolf]

Doesn't really matter, except to those who hate unions, or Japanese, or ................

What matters is that Toyota assumes the blame (which they did), that the repairs are made ASAP (which they appear to be), and that compensation is made to those who suffered injury or loss (haven't heard).

Finally, hopefully, whatever process led to the problem is corrected, and won't happen again.

[Palehorse]

Did Toyota have these problems before or after they incorporated American engineers into their processes; moreover, have the processes changed since said incorporation?