The Supreme Court Is Wrong!

[me]

Question for ya Troll.  How much of that raise would the union get monthly?

[Moonglow]

more than what Walle world would give ya!

[The Troll]

Question for ya Troll.  How much of that raise would the union get monthly?

  Well, we paid at Ford for the union one hour per month, yes one hour per month.  At that time I was making around $21 per hour and  that was 13 years ago.  Time and a  half for all over time.  Time and half for Saturdays and double time for Sundays.  If you were to work some of the big holidays, like Christmas, Easter and News Year. We were paid triple time.  Believe when I say, Ford did everything to kept from paying triple time.  Like Lowes did to my son all of the time.  It is really nice, to have the company not F**k up your holidays.

  To us union people, believe me, we didn't mind paying union dues.  We had protection from the company assholes.  We had Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance, eye care and glasses.  Ear care and hearing aids.  Dental care and Lawyer service.  The UAW charges their member, by what they make an hour.  I have a friend who worked for a private sheet metal company making stamping part for Ford, he was one of the skilled big press operators.  He was making $14 per hour and his union dues was one hour per month.  Well, the part he made was "out sourced" and his little plant was closed down and he lost his job.  Because he was a UAW member he still get his pension.  The salary people lost every.  Why, because they didn't have a contract, being a union member, he had a contract.

  Another man I know was a engineer and working over a whole group of Skilled Tradesmen for GM.  He lost everything and the government now pays his retirement.  Because he didn't have a contract.  Don't believe all the bullshit how the BIG UNION BOSSES TAKES ALL OF THE WORKERS MONEY, which is pure bullshit.  Talk to some union members about the cost of union membership and all of the benefits the union got for them.  The companies sure would not have gave us anything on their own.  Just like your company doesn't give you anything they, may is say again won't give you anything they think you don't need.  No matter how much ass you kiss and how much kiss their ring.

  I worked for Ford Motor Company for 38 years and I say, I thank my lucky stars that I worked for one of the greatest companies in the world and most of all I got to work there under an UAW contract.

The Troll       

[Henry Hawk]

Troll,

I am glad for you, and I am happy that my father was able to reap the benefits of the UAW...I know they made life wonderful for many, many hard working and deserving folks.

My only point was/is, that my personal opinion, based upon facts that I saw first hand...where the UAW got corrupt (for a lack of a better word) and abused by some of the Reps...I think that played a rather large impact on the demise of Delco Remy and Guide Lamp....and even as a whole for the GM across the land.

I think they went TOO far with their demands....but, I honestly do know why there had to be a union....I know there has got to be a checks and balances between Owners and the Workers.....I am fortunate, that I landed with a good, honest, family who takes cares of it's employess.

As far as Walmart...I don't think they are evil, but I think they probably could/should do better, but the same thing could happen to them as the Auto Industry if they pushed too hard....

I am familiar with the IBEW here in Indy...and I think they are a very good union...and I am hoping they don't get TOO greedy next month when they ask for a new contract, because things are very tough right now, and asking for anything more than they already have may be WAY too much for us to keep them busy this next year.

Greed is on both sides of the aisle, that is all my point is.

[The Troll]

Question for ya Troll.  How much of that raise would the union get monthly?

  Oh yes, Henry.  Since I have been retired, 13 beautiful years.  I still get Blue Cross/Blue Shield supplemental insurance for my Medicare.  I still get my Ford Retirement, the most important benefit my drug plan.  It's went up since the George W. depression. My dental care, getting a new bridge in two weeks, they say my co- pay is going to be $150.  My eye care and glasses,  just got my new glasses a month and a half ago, $35.  Still got my hearing aid care, haven't need that yet and still got my Lawyer aid, we had new will made last year at no cost.

  You want how much in Union dues I payed in the last 13 years.  NOTHING, NOTHING.  Henry you just keep believing the union is bad.  You couldn't see a good thing, if someone put their foot up you ass. 

The Troll, thanks to Ford Motor Co and thanks for the UAW!

[Henry Hawk]

Henry you just keep believing the union is bad.  You couldn't see a good thing, if someone put their foot up you ass. 

The Troll, thanks to Ford Motor Co and thanks for the UAW!

First of all, I think ANYBODY would find it rather hard to see a good thing with someones foot up their ass....is there something that I am missing on that? I'm pretty sure foot up the ass is a great distaction of finding good things....but that is just me...

and secondly, I did say some nice things about the Union....agian, I don't think you read my post, you just kind of scan through it and make your own conclusions...

[The Troll]

First of all, I think ANYBODY would find it rather hard to see a good thing with someones foot up their ass....is there something that I am missing on that? I'm pretty sure foot up the ass is a great distaction of finding good things....but that is just me...

and secondly, I did say some nice things about the Union....agian, I don't think you read my post, you just kind of scan through it and make your own conclusions...

  Sorry Henry.  I sent that post to you just before you sent your last post.  They must have passed each other in the internet.  Tho I am supprise that your dad was a UAW member.  I wonder what he would have to say about you have said in your post about the UAW.

My dad worked as a skilled tradesman, sheet metal for Delco Remy.  He spent 42 years with them, retiring from plant 11 on the by-pass.  He lived until he was 91 and it brought tears to his eyes when they tore down plant 11.

  He told me about, how GM fought the union in 1946.  I can remember the strike.  We would have meat once a week.  My dad worked all kinds of jobs during that strike.  Hanging wall paper and scooping corn and working for a farmer.  He paved the way for the rest of us.  I am surprised you feel about the UAW, since your your dad was a UAW member.  Shame on you.

The Troll

[Henry Hawk]

  Sorry Henry.  I sent that post to you just before you sent your last post.  They must have passed each other in the internet.  Tho I am supprise that your dad was a UAW member.  I wonder what he would have to say about you have said in your post about the UAW.

My dad worked as a skilled tradesman, sheet metal for Delco Remy.  He spent 42 years with them, retiring from plant 11 on the by-pass.  He lived until he was 91 and it brought tears to his eyes when they tore down plant 11.

  He told me about, how GM fought the union in 1946.  I can remember the strike.  We would have meat once a week.  My dad worked all kinds of jobs during that strike.  Hanging wall paper and scooping corn and working for a farmer.  He paved the way for the rest of us.  I am surprised you feel about the UAW, since your your dad was a UAW member.  Shame on you.

The Troll

My Dad also worked in plant 11 for several years...he had 44 years in before he retired....he is still alive (87)...and very thankful for his benefits....Dad, knows how I feel, and even understands, because he too, seen how many UAW reps was taking advantage....he also told me about one guy who was caught drunk several times and he never got fired....so, there WERE so serious down sides to it.....some guys who was lazy, but kept their jobs over guys who worked hard, JUST because they had more seniority...don't get me wrong, I am very thankful for the many guys like my dad, who worked hard, did their job and was rewarded quite nicely for it....I will always have a burr up my rump because what I experienced and witnessed to me, what was the downfall of a great thing.

[The Troll]

   Henry,  very nice post.  What I don't understand, if your uncle was an union official, why didn't he get you a job there.  When I was working for Guide Lamp, I tried to get a apprenticeship there.  I was told to go to a tutor that Guide Lamp endorsed.  If he gave you a good word to the company, you most likely would get a apprenticeship.  I went to Mr. Halsey, who has passed a long, long time ago and he started tutoring me.  While I was going to him, he told me that he probably could help me, but to land an apprenticeship at Guide, the jobs usually went to Supervision's sons and Union official's sons.

  Well, I work at Guide Lamp and was layed off in 89 days.  That's what GM did to new employees, so they wouldn't get in their 90 days and become an union member.  Now this was in 1956.  They did it to one guy three times.  The last time Guide hired him, he had made arrangement with a Navy recruiter to go into the Navy as soon as he was hired.  When he got out of service the had 3 year of seniority.  That was about the only way a young person could get a full time job a GM in the 50's.

  We had an UAW reprentsentive living here in town.  I heard Ford was hiring in Indianapolis.  I went to talk to him about him helping me get a job there.  He said yes and asked if I knew of anyone else who wanted a job.  I said I had two friend who need a job.  All three of us got hired that next day.  Before he was through, he helped get on over 15 guys here from my small town to get a job at Ford.  Most of them retired after 35 years.  I put in 38.

  Yesterday I talked to a friend of yours and asked him about you.  I told him I didn't want to know your name or where you worked or where you lived.  I wanted to know how old you were.  Hell, I thought you were over 65.  Hell, being in your 50s you ain't even dry behind the ears.  I ask him where in hell did you get all of those F**ked up ideas.  He said, I don't even know.  But he's a real nice guy if you get to know him.  His feeling about the the union?  I think he wanted to hired and for some unknown reason he just couldn't make.  I still like him.

  So Henry, I am not going to fight with you over the union, especially since you are union raised and union feed and had union health care.  If you don't like the UAW after all of that.  I wasting my time.  But we still have the Republican Party and The Republicans, the Teabaggers and your wonderfull predatory capitalism corporations to fight about.  So the battle continues, it won't be about unions.

The Troll  Let us     :salute.

[Moonglow]

My Dad also worked in plant 11 for several years...he had 44 years in before he retired....he is still alive (87)...and very thankful for his benefits....Dad, knows how I feel, and even understands, because he too, seen how many UAW reps was taking advantage....he also told me about one guy who was caught drunk several times and he never got fired....so, there WERE so serious down sides to it.....some guys who was lazy, but kept their jobs over guys who worked hard, JUST because they had more seniority...don't get me wrong, I am very thankful for the many guys like my dad, who worked hard, did their job and was rewarded quite nicely for it....I will always have a burr up my rump because what I experienced and witnessed to me, what was the downfall of a great thing.

I see this occurring in non-union jobs, do u hate non-unions also?

[The Troll]

Troll,



.....I am fortunate, that I landed with a good, honest, family who takes cares of it's employess.

  Henry, I want you to make a copy of this post and put it away for you to read in the next 10 years or so.

  You, in my opinion, this is what is going to happen to you in 5 to 10 year or so.

1.  Your company's owners are going to retire or die.

2.  Your company is going to go out of business or the kids will inherit it.

3.  The kids will bankrupt it, take it over and make your job miserable or they will sell it.

4.  The company or the person who buys it will try to make the employees pay for it, with wage reductions, less benefits and worst working conditions.  Giving you nothing to work with and expecting you to do the same job for less money and less material and equipment to work with.

  I have see this time, time, time and time again.  When I was in the 8th grade I was going to work for the big three auto companies.  GM, Chrysler and Ford.  Well, I got to work for GM and Ford.  One week after I was hired by Ford, Chrysler sent me a letter that I was to come in, that they  had a job for me.  Who in the world would have thought that our government would let all of these foreign cars in and almost destroy the Automobile Companies here in America.  Their still here, hanging on.  I bet it won't be true with your company.  Nothing is forever.  You need to start looking for a job with a large corporation who has been here in the USA for a long, long time, which is stockholder owned and not family owned.  Family business usally live as long as the original owner lives. 

The Troll

[Henry Hawk]

Hey Troll,

I just turned 50 a week ago, so I am not offically an old geezer but I am rapidly approaching..
I still have young ones at home...

I just missed out on the hiring at the factory, about the time I graduated from HS, that is when the bottom began to fall out...

Again, like I have stated several times, I am very grateful that my parents (both) worked for GM and I was able to be a recipient of those special privileges...that GM and the UAW provide.  I just felt they went TOO far an blew a good thing, along with NAFTA coming in....it simply ruined a good thing.  I appreciate YOUR comments about "dropping" the UAW argument...and I agree, I have my strong feelings as do you.

I really am not a bad guy, I just have my very strong opinions just like you do....and you are right we have PLENTY of other fine topics, such as the corrupt congress, led by the democrats to bicker about..

[Moonglow]

about the time u were getiing out of HS the auto industry in the USA was misguided not by union workers but designers that were producing hugs gas guzzling cars in the midst of a fuel crisis. Wrong move, they should have implemented an auto program to help with the fuel situation at that time, but they did no.

[dan foster]

about the time u were getiing out of HS the auto industry in the USA was misguided not by union workers but designers that were producing hugs gas guzzling cars in the midst of a fuel crisis. Wrong move, they should have implemented an auto program to help with the fuel situation at that time, but they did no.

Large corporations only make decisions based on one thing: bottom line.  CEO's of large corporations only make decisions based on one thing: bottom line.  Unions help workers keep some of the profits in the middle class, and are the only reason there IS a middle class in the US.  The owners of the large corporations (including those that make nothing but money in the financial sector), and plenty of CEO's, now, belong to the top 1% of people in this country that own 99% of the wealth.  In other words, the top 25000 people in this country have more money than the bottom 100,000,000.  The middle class, wage earner has seen their wages drop about 3-5% over the last 40 years.  The top 1% have seen their wealth grow by 500%.  In the same period, CEO pay went from 5-1 over the average worker to 1000-1 of their average employee's salary.  In the same period, unions were essentially busted and put out of business.  So, the redistribution of wealth (the words of fear by the right wing fascists) HAS already taken place: up and out of the middle class.  It is time to get it back to the folks that actually earn the money/make the wealth and it may be unions, again, that saves the middle class.  The gov't works for the corporations, so no help there.