Obama Slams Health Care Critics For Spreading "Outlandish Rumors"

[me]

Clever

[Exterminator]

[Sandy Eggo]

Thanks for reminding me of "This Modern World"

[Anne]

If there are 47/48 million people uninsured and it will cost $1 trillion dollars over the next ten years with the government sponsored healthcare, why don't they just pass a bill that: 1) companies cannot drop healthcare plans for their employees without government approval 2) preminums cannot be raised above the inflation rate 3) people who can afford to buy insurance can't be turned down because of pre existing conditions 4) put 47/48 million dollars in a trust to pay for insurance for the people who are currently uninsured. That sounds a lot cheaper and easier than what is going on now. Tell me why this won't work or what I have missed.

[Palehorse]

If there are 47/48 million people uninsured and it will cost $1 trillion dollars over the next ten years with the government sponsored healthcare, why don't they just pass a bill that: 1) companies cannot drop healthcare plans for their employees without government approval 2) preminums cannot be raised above the inflation rate 3) people who can afford to buy insurance can't be turned down because of pre existing conditions 4) put 47/48 million dollars in a trust to pay for insurance for the people who are currently uninsured. That sounds a lot cheaper and easier than what is going on now. Tell me why this won't work or what I have missed.

Loosely, that is what the POTUS is trying to get done!

[Exterminator]

Loosely, that is what the POTUS is trying to get done!

And now do the math...let's round the number to 50 million people (which will probably be low ten years from now).  1 trillion divided by 50 million is 20,000 or $2,000.00 per person per year.  What do you think health insurance premiums cost?

[Bo D]

And now do the math...let's round the number to 50 million people (which will probably be low ten years from now).  1 trillion divided by 50 million is 20,000 or $2,000.00 per person per year.  What do you think health insurance premiums cost?

Over the last decade, employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased 119 percent.

Employees have seen their share of job-based coverage increase at nearly the same rate during this period jumping from $1,543 to $3,354.4

The cumulative increase in employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have raised at four times the rate of inflation and wage increases during last decade.  This increase has made it much more difficult for businesses to continue to provide coverage to their employees and for those workers to afford coverage themselves.

    * The average employer-sponsored premium for a family of four costs close to $13,000 a year, and the employee foots about 30 percent of this cost. Health insurance costs are the fastest growing expense for employers.  Employer health insurance costs overtook profits in 2008, and the gap grows steadily.

    * Total health insurance costs for employers could reach nearly $850 billion by 2019.  Individual and family spending will jump considerably from $326 billion in 2009 to $550 billion in 2019.

    * The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that job-based health insurance could increase 100 percent over the next decade.  Employer-based family insurance costs for a family of four will reach nearly $25,000 per year by 2018 absent health care reform.


http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

[Sandy Eggo]

Yeah but "me" and Henry "just don't like it". Who cares about the numbers?!?

[Anne]

Loosely, that is what the POTUS is trying to get done!

Then my question is where does the 48 million become 1 trillion and why gut medicare advantage. Also where in the bills does it prevent companies dropping health care, prevent premiums being raised beyond inflation, and dropping the level of coverage?

[Henry Hawk]

Yeah but "me" and Henry "just don't like it". Who cares about the numbers?!?

Here are some reason's WHY, we have legitimate issues with it.....

From the National Center for Policy Analysis



Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS THAT SELF-INSURE!!

This is true.  The HOUSE bill requires a report  on "the financial solvency and capital reserve levels of employers that self-insure."



Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

This is true.  The HOUSE bill creates a "Health Benefits Advisory Committee" that will "recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans."


Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt WILL RESTRICT ENROLLMENT of Special needs people.

This is mostly true.  Government already has the authority to restrict enrollment.  This provision in the HOUSE bill will extend that authority until 2013.


Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you.

This is true.  The Health Choices Commissioner (a new government bureaucrat created in the HOUSE bill) will establish "qualified health benefits plan standards ... including the enforcement of such standards."


PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC WILL BE PROVIDED TO ALL NON-US CITIZENS, illegal or otherwise

The HOUSE bill requires all health care to be provided "without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services."  This could be interpreted as requiring health care to be provided to illegal aliens.


Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill- ALL NON-RESIDENT ALIENS will be exempt from individual taxes.  (Resident Americans will pay)

Amazingly, this is true.  The HOUSE bill says the tax "shall not apply to any individual who is a non-resident alien."



Pg 58 HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued.

This is mostly true.  Although it isn't a mandate.  This section in the HOUSE bill lists this as a "goal" of health reform, to "enable the real-time (or near real time) determination of an individual's financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card;


Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer, no choice.

This is true.  The HOUSE bill would "enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice."


Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC EXCHANGE to bring private HC plans under Govt control.  

This is true.  The HOUSE bill creates an artificial government-controlled market (an "exchange") that will operate outside the free market.


PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC plans in the Exchange.
This is true.  The HOUSE bill mandates that "the Commissioner shall specify the benefits to be made available under Exchange-participating health benefits plans."


PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs. for of Benefit Levels for Plans

This is true.  There are several benefit level specifications that the government will require in this section of the HOUSE bill.


Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

This may be true.  The HOUSE bill creates an outreach system to sign up people for health insurance.  It doesn't specifically mention ACORN, but it is certainly possible ACORN could be used.


pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Government on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Government Monopoly.

This is true.  "There shall be no administrative or judicial review of a payment rate or methodology established" in the HOUSE bill.


pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill -DOCTORS/ AMA - The Govt will tell you what your salary will be.

This is true for doctors who participate in the public plan.


Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employers MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.

This isn't exactly true.  If employers don't offer coverage or otherwise contribute to employees' health insurance, they must enroll into a public plan.


Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.  

This is true, except it is on page 146.


Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll 400k & above, who does not provide public option, pays 8% tax on all payroll.

This is true.


Pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

This is true.  The HOUSE bill includes a sliding-scale tax schedule for businesses with payrolls starting at $250,001.


Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to the Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

This is true.  The HOUSE bill requires you to have "acceptable" insurance, or you will be taxed.


Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances/personal records.

This is true for people who received subsidized insurance through the exchange.


PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax."

This section in the HOUSE bill doesn't want the tax to be treated as a "tax" for purposes of other sections of the tax code.  Complicated, but funny how they worded it.

[Anne]

And now do the math...let's round the number to 50 million people (which will probably be low ten years from now).  1 trillion divided by 50 million is 20,000 or $2,000.00 per person per year.  What do you think health insurance premiums cost?

I would think that having a group of 50 million would be cheaper than individual policies. $1 million dollars per person should buy insurance for more than one year. We are told our employer paid insurance is $600 per family per month, $7,200 a year.

[Anne]

Over the last decade, employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased 119 percent.


Employees have seen their share of job-based coverage increase at nearly the same rate during this period jumping from $1,543 to $3,354.4

The cumulative increase in employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have raised at four times the rate of inflation and wage increases during last decade.  This increase has made it much more difficult for businesses to continue to provide coverage to their employees and for those workers to afford coverage themselves.

    * The average employer-sponsored premium for a family of four costs close to $13,000 a year, and the employee foots about 30 percent of this cost. Health insurance costs are the fastest growing expense for employers.  Employer health insurance costs overtook profits in 2008, and the gap grows steadily.

    * Total health insurance costs for employers could reach nearly $850 billion by 2019.  Individual and family spending will jump considerably from $326 billion in 2009 to $550 billion in 2019.

    * The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that job-based health insurance could increase 100 percent over the next decade.  Employer-based family insurance costs for a family of four will reach nearly $25,000 per year by 2018 absent health care reform.


http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

Limiting premium increases to inflation rates would keep this from happening, right, unless the amount of coverage is increased, of course.

[Bo D]

Limiting premium increases to inflation rates would keep this from happening, right, unless the amount of coverage is increased, of course.

That would be a very good start!

[Bo D]

Here are some reason's WHY, we have legitimate issues with it.....

From the National Center for Policy Analysis



Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

This is true.  The HOUSE bill creates a "Health Benefits Advisory Committee" that will "recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans."

"The NCPA's goal is to develop and promote private alternatives to government regulation and control" http://www.ncpa.org/about/

Yeah ... and that's mostly why we just suffered the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

Anyway ... let's just tackle my favorite pet peeve ....

"recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans."

Please tell me how that is different from our current HMO plans? The way I see it, having a "Health Benefits Advisory Committee" manned by doctors, nurses, and health care practitioners recommending covered benefits, etc. is a hell of a lot better than a bunch of insurance company bean counters mandating my benefits.

[Henry Hawk]

"The NCPA's goal is to develop and promote private alternatives to government regulation and control" http://www.ncpa.org/about/

Yeah ... and that's mostly why we just suffered the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

Anyway ... let's just tackle my favorite pet peeve ....

“recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans.”

Please tell me how that is different from our current HMO plans? The way I see it, having a “Health Benefits Advisory Committee” manned by doctors, nurses, and health care practitioners recommending covered benefits, etc. is a hell of a lot better than a bunch of insurance company bean counters mandating my benefits.

I'm not saying our current plan does not need fixed.....I AM in favor of reform....just not the one that is being presented...