Strike in Terre Haute

[followsthewolf]

Hey lighten up...I was only having some fun paraphrasing  a well known poet.  Guess you don't know Gertrude....  If you don't know who I'm talking about say so, and I'll give you her last name; you can look her up on Goggle!  I refuse to use that word as a verb.  LOL   If you are older  than I, you must be retired and working on a second career.

Never retired. Just went from one career to another. (I was recruited.)

And that's a weak "out."

But I'll let you save face and accept your Gertrude-on-Goggle (sic) reference.

[Santiago]

A couple of questions for Santi and Lolly.

1. Who has the power in such relationships as 'employer/employee', i.e.: 'capitalist/worker'?

2. Not to sound egotistical, but are you willing to bow to sound argument?

A couple of questions for Santi and Lolly.

1. Who has the power in such relationships as 'employer/employee', i.e.: 'capitalist/worker'?

2. Not to sound egotistical, but are you willing to bow to sound argument?

Never retired. Just went from one career to another. (I was recruited.)

And that's a weak "out."

But I'll let you save face and accept your Gertrude-on-Goggle (sic) reference.

Woo Woo....recruited, eh?  Isn't it nice to be "wanted"? Hell I don't have to save face.  I know Gertrude Stein's line?  Do you?  Thanks though for condescending to let me "save face".   I frankly think you are a big phoney.  Bye, bye. 

[followsthewolf]

And, frankly, considering your thinking pattern, I'm afraid I've lost so much respect for your position that I couldn't care less what your personal conclusions are about me.

Glad you retired. Thinking like yours has held the teaching profession in the dark ages for years.

Next time you expect to be able to throw out sweeping generalizations without a response from anyone, you ought to consider that there may be someone reading them who will call you out on them.

Stick with 5th and 6th graders. You may be able to impress them.

Edited @ ~9:40 pm 8/17/09
     Forgot to add that yes, I know the famous Gertrude Stein "A rose is a rose is a rose" line. Just because something was said by one born with a silver spoon, that does not make it true. And just because you tried to make it analogous to unions, doesn't make it meet the apples-to-apples test.

[LOsborne]

A couple of questions for Santi and Lolly.

I don't remember telling you to call me Lolly. I reserve that sobriquet for my friends. Do I know you?

1. Who has the power in such relationships as 'employer/employee', i.e.: 'capitalist/worker'?

Obviously, the entity with the power is the one who can shut it down. If the employer can hire qualified replacements, the employer holds the power. If the process requires on-the-job training, the employee holds the power. Hence the dynamic tension of the strike.

2. Not to sound egotistical, but are you willing to bow to sound argument?

Are you saying you have one?

[LOsborne]

FTW, in between breaths while you are whaling away at Santi, would you care to address my point on why striking union members feel it is acceptable to injure those who have no vested interest in the strike, simply because they do not take sides?

Oh, and another thing, those newspaper accounts that you rely so much on for the "atrocities" to which you referred: remember that lots of those newspapers were pretty much the tools of some of the richest owners...

I was not relating a "newspaper account." I was relating actual events that occurred while I was employed by a newspaper. No second-hand spin involved. I still have nightmares.

[followsthewolf]

FTW, in between breaths while you are whaling away at Santi, would you care to address my point on why striking union members feel it is acceptable to injure those who have no vested interest in the strike, simply because they do not take sides?

I was not relating a "newspaper account." I was relating actual events that occurred while I was employed by a newspaper. No second-hand spin involved. I still have nightmares.

I cannot answer for those actions I did not commit and do not condone.

Why do you intercede in a discussion on the side of someone who resorts to various egregious epithets when he is at a loss for fact?

Of course you can't answer for him, just like I can't answer for those who commit acts of violence. Why would you even ask ME that question? Did you assume that I did physical harm to others? A gross and unwarranted assumption. You might want to rethink your position of support for one who obviously has trouble with his thought processes.

[LOsborne]

Why do you intercede in a discussion on the side of someone who resorts to various egregious epithets when he is at a loss for fact?

Actually, if you would care to look at the first post, I started the discussion. And by my count you are about even in the egregious epithet competition.

Of course you can't answer for him, just like I can't answer for those who commit acts of violence. Why would you even ask ME that question? Did you assume that I did physical harm to others? A gross and unwarranted assumption. You might want to rethink your position of support for one who obviously has trouble with his thought processes.

I don't believe I expressed support for Santi's position. Neither did I mean to imply you condone the acts of injury and property damage which are often committed (by both sides) against the uninvolved when negotiations between company and union break down.

You and Santiago went haring off after the old NEA dispute. I was hoping for a discussion of the odd phenomenon of how people in groups are able to demonize people in other groups ... and the dangers of letting any organization dictate one's thinking and actions -- whether the organization is a political party, an urban gang, or the Brownie scouts.

As for my affection toward Santiago ... I know him better than I know you. We've shared a lot of laughs. We share a bond that allows us to overlook the occasions when we find ourselves on opposing sides of an issue.

It isn't necessary to march in lock-step with someone to consider that person a friend. And it would take more than my union (yes, I've been in one) telling me he is the devil, to make me believe it.

As a devout anarchist, I object to any entity which tries to control my thoughts, as well as my actions.

[followsthewolf]

By the way, the NEA is not the only teachers' union. Not to mention state and local. The NEA is not the union group to which I was referring. You and Santiago simply assumed so; again, an unwarranted assumption, based on your desire to demonize a group (the very phenomenon you profess to want to discuss, as if you don't do that yourself) without any knowledge of whom you are talking about.

You both made sweeping generalizations based on anecdotal evidence of personal experiences and then transferred those images upon the situation I was describing. Again, I say, one has NOTHING to do with each other, and you are guilty of being a part of the very situation which you wish to discuss from a distance. That is nearly impossible to do, given that your personal interaction seems to have caused a preconditioned response pattern in your posts.

If you can divorce your emotions from those thought patterns, then we might be able to proceed according to Mills' precepts.

Also, if you take the time to really read the posts, I believe you'll find that the "names" I called him, (in your opinion) are fairly warranted by the posts he made. But to imply that I am a "drag queen" from the way I use the English language is a bit off the wall. You seem to condone that by trying to equate the two. His use of the tenets of arguing, or discussion, are extremely crude and belies the fact that his arguments carry little, if any substance.

I have followed your lines of thought in many other threads on this forum, and have, in the past appreciated how you think and how you express yourself. I am frankly surprised at your spin here -- must be the introduction of the "friend" aspect, which can cause aberrations to occur.

Oh, and, he did make the statement about unions in general, and then the Stein metaphor, which he then tried to pass off as some kind of twisted humor. Yes, you started the discussion, but he took it toward its current direction by offhand statements that reveal his value system. He then becomes responsible for his words and cannot deflect the argument by trying to call names. Intellectually dishonest.

[LOsborne]

I believe the only sweeping generalization I made was this one:

Once we start talking to symbols, the communication ceases.

I did relate one strike anecdote, but this was the only conclusion I drew:

A sense of proportion seems to be one of the first casualties in the conflict.

The two of you are certainly demonstrating my point. I didn't intend any emotional coloration to any of my posts on this thread ... other than bafflement at what it is about belonging to a group that causes people to stop behaving civilly.

I am pre-disposed by upbringing and a natural iconoclastic bent, to be pro-union. But I am adamantly against having my sexy little yellow car keyed when it is parked harmlessly in the parking lot where I work ... which, just for the record, is not part of any labor dispute.

So, back to my original point, at what point does it become acceptable to drag non-combatants into the fray? And what does such action achieve?

[followsthewolf]

Don't know.

Never committed those acts.

Have it your way.

You and Santiago are as sweet as pie and every union is just a nasty group of nasty people who want more than the sweet, innocent owners can possibly give them (we all know those hoi polloi don't earn it) and those owners barely can put bread on their own tables, and they are the salt of the earth, and they are all Santa Clauses in disguise and those doggone greedy employees oughta be durn glad they have a job at all.

You've convinced and converted me.

[Palehorse]

It will take the company all of about 7 days to replace every single one of these cock roaches. . . Indiana is an "at will" state and they'll argue that they are "not willing" and so the company is free to rehire. . .

Beanies and wienies only go so far, and after that they'll be eating road kill stew. . . 

You thought I was wrong???  They're already replacing them!

Description
NOW HIRING

Bemis Company, Inc., experiencing a work stoppage, seeking qualified employees at its

Terre Haute, Indiana manufacturing facility for the following positions.



Industrial Maintenance Mechanic – 12 Hour Shift (Days & Nights)

Starting Wage $15.46 w/automatic progression to $19.66

Applicants for Industrial Maintenance Mechanic positions must have:
An Associate Degree in an applicable field
Industrial Maintenance experience including troubleshooting of hydraulic
systems, pneumatic controls, electrical circuits, electrical systems including
PLC's, AC and DC drive and mechanical systems
Must pass a maintenance skills test
Attention to detail
Willingness to participate in a team based work environment
 

Press Operator – 12 Hour Shift (Days & Nights)

Starting Wage $17.23 w/automatic progression to $18.51

Applicants for Press Operator positions must have:
Experience operating printing presses
High school diploma or equivalent
Ability to learn new technologies
Attention to detail
Ability to perform basic/intermediate math functions
Willingness to participate in a team based work environment


Extrusion Operator – 12 Hour Shift (Days & Nights)

Starting Wage $17.23 w/automatic progression to $18.51

Applicants for Extrusion Operator positions must have:
Experience operating extruders
High school diploma or equivalent
Ability to learn new technologies
Attention to detail
Ability to perform basic/intermediate math functions
Willingness to participate in a team based work environment


Machine Operator – 8 Hour Shift (First, Second & Third Shifts)

Starting Wage $16.43 w/automatic progression to $17.29

Applicants for Machine Operator positions must have:
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High school diploma or equivalent
Ability to learn new technologies
Attention to detail
Ability to perform basic/intermediate math functions
Willingness to participate in a team based work environment


Platemaker/Mounter – 12 Hour Shift (Days & Nights)

Starting Wage $17.23 w/automatic progression to $18.51

Applicants for Platemaker/Mounter positions must have:
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High school diploma or equivalent
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Fork Truck Driver –12 Hour Shift (Days & Nights)

Starting Wage $14.52 w/automatic progression to $15.55

Applicants for Fork Truck Driver positions must have:
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High school diploma or equivalent
Ability to learn new technologies
Attention to detail
Ability to perform basic/intermediate math functions
Willingness to participate in a team based work environment


Assistant Press Operator – 12 Hour Shift (Days & Nights)

Starting Wage $13.37 w/automatic progression to $14.73

 

Assistant Extrusion Operator – 12 Hour Shift (Days & Nights)

Starting Wage $13.29 w/automatic progression to $14.76

 

Assistant Machine Operator – 8 Hour Shift (First, Second & Third Shifts)

Starting Wage $13.13 w/automatic progression to $13.91

High school diploma or equivalent
Ability to learn new technologies
Attention to detail
Ability to perform basic/intermediate math functions
Willingness to participate in a team based work environment
In addition to the wages set forth above, Bemis Company provides a competitive benefit package that includes health
insurance, dental insurance, paid vacation and holidays, life insurance and pension.
Applications, interviews, and drug screens will be completed at our location at

1350 North Fruitridge Ave, Terre Haute, Indiana on the following date and times:

Thursday, August 20th • 9:00a.m. – 3:00p.m.

Friday, August 21st • 9:00a.m. – 3:00p.m.



Bemis is an equal opportunity employer

http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?job_did=J8H62V6P3TBBZJHRMW2&siteid=#siteid

[LOsborne]

They held a job fair on site a couple of weeks ago, too. I heard there were 5,000 applicants, but you know how we HR assholes exaggerate. No one was hired before the second vote last Friday, but I'm told some of those people started Monday. Now talks have been scheduled again for the 27th and 28th.

[Palehorse]

They held a job fair on site a couple of weeks ago, too. I heard there were 5,000 applicants, but you know how we HR assholes exaggerate. No one was hired before the second vote last Friday, but I'm told some of those people started Monday. Now talks have been scheduled again for the 27th and 28th.

If you notice they're advertising these jobs in Indianapolis for TH. . . Don't want to chum the sharks up I suppose!

[LOsborne]

You've convinced and converted me.

You are so full of it your eyes have turned brown.

[Palehorse]

You are so full of it your eyes have turned brown.

Hey! I resemble that remark!