My thought of the day....

[me]

So, we can't express ourselves for fear of hurting your feelings?

Pretty sad if that's the only way one can express themselves.

[Palehorse]

It's a sad state of affairs when a person can't express themselves without getting made fun of or having cracks made about their character or beliefs.

Sorry for your bruised tenders. . . NOT!

Okay, have your little religious zealotry feel-good session. . . I'm out.

[me]

Hum, I have the feeling the weather is making everyone, including me, a little more touchy than normal.  (just an observation) 

[Henry Hawk]

must be me,

PH, what was you point in your remarks? who was you directing it at?

[JANADELE]

"This is life eternal, that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent" (John 17:3).

[Palehorse]

The Tool

Since the beginning of time religion has struggled for control of the people with those who would lead them; from the healers of prehistoric times to tribal leaders, kings, queens, and presidents, the leaders of every religion have wrestled with them for control. During the times before the emergence of Christ and Christianity, the oracles and fortune tellers / astronomers would utilize naturally occurring and predictable astronomical events as signs to the leaders that something they personally wanted done needed to happen. This same methodology was utilized as a means with which to turn the kings and queens of the world into mere puppets of those with the "secret knowledge" they disguised as the ability to hold counsel with the creator. And they took advantage of it to amass personal wealth and power as a means to increase their station in life.

However, it didn't take too long before some of the leadership back then began to figure things out for themselves, by holding counsel with those who possessed new ideas and theories and educating themselves surrounding these things. The old tricks were not what they used to be and these individuals began to lose their grip on the reins of power; and a new way needed to be identified as a means to save themselves.

Along came Jesus Christ and this new idea of Christianity. Now just suppose for a moment, (and I hope you can free up your mind/thought process for long enough to give this some thought) Jesus was nothing more than a man. A man divinely inspired by the creator even works for me. His thoughts and actions, his words, were so revolutionary for the times in which he lived, (Remember, humanity burned "witches" many centuries later and this was after "civilization" had supposedly took hold of the worlds populations), that he was perceived as a threat, an aberration even, by the people of his time. (Some of them anyway. Remember, he did end up on the cross and died at the hands of the "justice" of the times). Yet, amongst the population he struck a chord with many. Some were inspired to follow him, and humanity being humanity, and writers being writers and taking literary license as they usually do, began writing down some of his actions and recording them in the methods of the times.

No doubt some believed so strongly in the things that this man was doing, that they felt compelled to try to bring the point across within the words they placed to "paper", much like the great novelists of the American Wild West days, exaggerating some points to retain the attention of their readers, and hopefully drive home their intended message; that Jesus was onto something here and his teachings were worth passing onto the generations to come. 

Eventually the powers that were in control deemed this man enough of a threat to trump up some charges against him that would enable them to sentence him to his death, and so it was that it came to pass. Only problem was that by the time they had got around to executing him he had developed quite the following, and to make matters worse those within his inner circle had written letters outlining some of his deeds, and lot of his messages. They found themselves unable to quell the movement, much less control those with the information. (Certainly no one back then could even fathom that later generations would take their tales so literally, certainly to the extreme that some do today. And they certainly never could have imagined that science would one day have the ability to identify remains 2,000 years old and even millions of years old.)

As the years passed on the humanity within them came to the forefront, as those within the movement jousted for control of it; greed. That hunger for wealth and power rose to the top and with it began the scheming against each other. Of course after some time those with allegiances to the leaders of the people had infiltrated the movement and someone decided that all this documentation had to be assembled in one place, in order for everyone to better understand the message this man had for humanity.

Thus came about the effort to assemble the books of the "bible" through the editing of the writings of humanity from the times. What a power play this would have been for them. Determine what goes in, what stays out, and make the messages so subjective as to be able to make them say whatever you wish, thus control the people, the power, the wealth for themselves. The "gospels" are only "gospels" because they were deemed as such by the very individuals who edited and assembled them way back in the day. Do I believe there is some truth / value to be had within them, sure I do. But I do not agree with the subjective interpretations and incomplete record that this whole process of editing has left them to be. It gives me reason to doubt, to question, and that is enough.

From my days spent in a Christian University, it is clear that the bible was assembled from a collection of "letters" written by followers of the Christian faith. Parables, they were written by human beings, assembled by other human beings much later on, and magically these same human beings doing the assembly felt they had the authority to exclude anything they felt wasn't in keeping with their personal ideas of what the Christian faith is supposed to mean.

Each of these "letters were written by key figures within the circle of trust that was maintained by Jesus; including a key woman that history has shown was unfairly ostracized within later society and made out to be a whore. The reason for this is clearly obvious if one reads her letters, for they document a relationship with this man Jesus, painting a portrait of him that opposed the path the religion needed to take in order to render to those who assembled these works the personal wealth and power they desired. Moreover, even portions of those letters authored by those included within the completed text contained large portions of such information, and if they were included it would undermine the whole purpose behind this activity! So in their infinite "wisdom" these men that lived centuries after these authors had died, took it upon themselves to edit out everything that went against what they personally felt was the path this religion and its followers were to follow.

What provided them this right to undertake such a ludicrous action? How could they know or understand the true meaning and intention of the writers so many years later, much less know something more than they did surrounding the subject of said writings? They took it upon themselves to decide for humanity the path of the religion moving forward, because the true purpose of this whole activity was to create the new tool required to seize back the control lost when the leadership of the time became enlightened.

The book was assembled to purposely be vague and subjective in interpretation, to allow those who obtain positions of power within the church to wield power over the flock, to bend them to their will, and to allow them to accumulate personal wealth and power over the masses. As it has been utilized throughout history and continues to be. So certainly when empirical evidence is discovered there will be no limit to what can and will be done to obscure it; for it threatens their livelihood!

Throughout the subsequent centuries the leadership of Christianity has waffled upon interpretation of passages, providing explanations that best served their purpose at each time the questions arose; in each instance taking the stance that they are only passing along that which God has provided only to them, by speaking only to them. Placing themselves above all others amongst them and in the position to control and decide what is right and what is wrong.  After all, does not the book clearly document the divine power provided to a man by God, and since it is God he can provide this same power to those chosen by him for eternity!

It is no wonder then that all these centuries later humankind struggles to understand why it is so contradictory, and just how it is that a man can sit down and write a set of letters on the very same subject matter, but have the continuity broken up by the fact that others much later adjudicate certain portions of that writing as incorrect.  How can a man be divinely inspired one moment but not so in the next? Human greed is the answer. To exclude "letters" that document the fact that this same man married, that he had children, and when he was crucified his body was secreted away by those who loved him most, to be later laid to rest within a family tomb, only serve to further cast doubt upon the whole business.

Is it any more of a wonder that centuries after the completion of this book, when physical evidence providing empirical proof that a key foundational element of this book is wrong, is categorically denied and dismissed after a decade of it being hidden away from the world?

[Henry Hawk]

is this your thought of the day?

[Palehorse]

 

[Henry Hawk]

YOU started with the smart remark now you act like YOU are innocent....

[Palehorse]

 

[Sandy Eggo]

"me" so you're the thought police?

The weather is quite nice here and I'm no more contrary than usual

I would think that an inability to express oneself in any manner would be a bigger "shame".

[Henry Hawk]

I will say, that Palehorse may be one the best that I have ever read, at making his point to where, even I can totally understand....I still do not agree with him 100%, but I do follow his logic on this, and he is always a makes whatever he is writing about, a fun read....

PH, despite our differences, YOU should be doing this for a living....

The Tool

Since the beginning of time religion has struggled for control of the people with those who would lead them; from the healers of prehistoric times to tribal leaders, kings, queens, and presidents, the leaders of every religion have wrestled with them for control. During the times before the emergence of Christ and Christianity, the oracles and fortune tellers / astronomers would utilize naturally occurring and predictable astronomical events as signs to the leaders that something they personally wanted done needed to happen. This same methodology was utilized as a means with which to turn the kings and queens of the world into mere puppets of those with the "secret knowledge" they disguised as the ability to hold counsel with the creator. And they took advantage of it to amass personal wealth and power as a means to increase their station in life.

However, it didn't take too long before some of the leadership back then began to figure things out for themselves, by holding counsel with those who possessed new ideas and theories and educating themselves surrounding these things. The old tricks were not what they used to be and these individuals began to lose their grip on the reins of power; and a new way needed to be identified as a means to save themselves.

Along came Jesus Christ and this new idea of Christianity. Now just suppose for a moment, (and I hope you can free up your mind/thought process for long enough to give this some thought) Jesus was nothing more than a man. A man divinely inspired by the creator even works for me. His thoughts and actions, his words, were so revolutionary for the times in which he lived, (Remember, humanity burned "witches" many centuries later and this was after "civilization" had supposedly took hold of the worlds populations), that he was perceived as a threat, an aberration even, by the people of his time. (Some of them anyway. Remember, he did end up on the cross and died at the hands of the "justice" of the times). Yet, amongst the population he struck a chord with many. Some were inspired to follow him, and humanity being humanity, and writers being writers and taking literary license as they usually do, began writing down some of his actions and recording them in the methods of the times.

No doubt some believed so strongly in the things that this man was doing, that they felt compelled to try to bring the point across within the words they placed to "paper", much like the great novelists of the American Wild West days, exaggerating some points to retain the attention of their readers, and hopefully drive home their intended message; that Jesus was onto something here and his teachings were worth passing onto the generations to come. 

Eventually the powers that were in control deemed this man enough of a threat to trump up some charges against him that would enable them to sentence him to his death, and so it was that it came to pass. Only problem was that by the time they had got around to executing him he had developed quite the following, and to make matters worse those within his inner circle had written letters outlining some of his deeds, and lot of his messages. They found themselves unable to quell the movement, much less control those with the information. (Certainly no one back then could even fathom that later generations would take their tales so literally, certainly to the extreme that some do today. And they certainly never could have imagined that science would one day have the ability to identify remains 2,000 years old and even millions of years old.)

As the years passed on the humanity within them came to the forefront, as those within the movement jousted for control of it; greed. That hunger for wealth and power rose to the top and with it began the scheming against each other. Of course after some time those with allegiances to the leaders of the people had infiltrated the movement and someone decided that all this documentation had to be assembled in one place, in order for everyone to better understand the message this man had for humanity.

Thus came about the effort to assemble the books of the "bible" through the editing of the writings of humanity from the times. What a power play this would have been for them. Determine what goes in, what stays out, and make the messages so subjective as to be able to make them say whatever you wish, thus control the people, the power, the wealth for themselves. The "gospels" are only "gospels" because they were deemed as such by the very individuals who edited and assembled them way back in the day. Do I believe there is some truth / value to be had within them, sure I do. But I do not agree with the subjective interpretations and incomplete record that this whole process of editing has left them to be. It gives me reason to doubt, to question, and that is enough.

From my days spent in a Christian University, it is clear that the bible was assembled from a collection of "letters" written by followers of the Christian faith. Parables, they were written by human beings, assembled by other human beings much later on, and magically these same human beings doing the assembly felt they had the authority to exclude anything they felt wasn't in keeping with their personal ideas of what the Christian faith is supposed to mean.

Each of these "letters were written by key figures within the circle of trust that was maintained by Jesus; including a key woman that history has shown was unfairly ostracized within later society and made out to be a whore. The reason for this is clearly obvious if one reads her letters, for they document a relationship with this man Jesus, painting a portrait of him that opposed the path the religion needed to take in order to render to those who assembled these works the personal wealth and power they desired. Moreover, even portions of those letters authored by those included within the completed text contained large portions of such information, and if they were included it would undermine the whole purpose behind this activity! So in their infinite "wisdom" these men that lived centuries after these authors had died, took it upon themselves to edit out everything that went against what they personally felt was the path this religion and its followers were to follow.

What provided them this right to undertake such a ludicrous action? How could they know or understand the true meaning and intention of the writers so many years later, much less know something more than they did surrounding the subject of said writings? They took it upon themselves to decide for humanity the path of the religion moving forward, because the true purpose of this whole activity was to create the new tool required to seize back the control lost when the leadership of the time became enlightened.

The book was assembled to purposely be vague and subjective in interpretation, to allow those who obtain positions of power within the church to wield power over the flock, to bend them to their will, and to allow them to accumulate personal wealth and power over the masses. As it has been utilized throughout history and continues to be. So certainly when empirical evidence is discovered there will be no limit to what can and will be done to obscure it; for it threatens their livelihood!

Throughout the subsequent centuries the leadership of Christianity has waffled upon interpretation of passages, providing explanations that best served their purpose at each time the questions arose; in each instance taking the stance that they are only passing along that which God has provided only to them, by speaking only to them. Placing themselves above all others amongst them and in the position to control and decide what is right and what is wrong.  After all, does not the book clearly document the divine power provided to a man by God, and since it is God he can provide this same power to those chosen by him for eternity!

It is no wonder then that all these centuries later humankind struggles to understand why it is so contradictory, and just how it is that a man can sit down and write a set of letters on the very same subject matter, but have the continuity broken up by the fact that others much later adjudicate certain portions of that writing as incorrect.  How can a man be divinely inspired one moment but not so in the next? Human greed is the answer. To exclude "letters" that document the fact that this same man married, that he had children, and when he was crucified his body was secreted away by those who loved him most, to be later laid to rest within a family tomb, only serve to further cast doubt upon the whole business.

Is it any more of a wonder that centuries after the completion of this book, when physical evidence providing empirical proof that a key foundational element of this book is wrong, is categorically denied and dismissed after a decade of it being hidden away from the world?

[The Troll]

Oh great. . . now we have a flock of zealots to herd!

   Where is Jim Jones and his kool-aid :koolaida: when you need him.  Let's Somebody say Amen.  Oh, yes, put something in the pot and let's pass the offering plate.

[Sandy Eggo]

I didn't realize until just now that Jim Jones originally gathered 900 members from Indiana in the 1950's. I didn't realize that he was from Indiana. I don't think that I thought about it actually. 

Since the group suicide didn't happen until the late 70's does anyone know if the people involved were Indianian?

[me]

I didn't realize until just now that Jim Jones originally gathered 900 members from Indiana in the 1950's. I didn't realize that he was from Indiana. I don't think that I thought about it actually. 

Since the group suicide didn't happen until the late 70's does anyone know if the people involved were Indianian?

I think the idiot had people from all over following him.