This is exactly what we can expect from nationalized health care

[Henry Hawk]

And yet it keeps happening over and over again...Enron, WorldCom, the banking industry, et.al.; these people absolutely knew that they were screwing people to make themselves wealthy.  The trend seems to be that the end justifies the means.

I agree there will ALWAYS be those who put self interest and greed, ahead of everyone else..for power and money...always has been and always will be.....We need to hold these guys accountable and punish them to the full extent when the break the laws...also, people who want something for nothing are to blame....those who put their trust into companies like Enron and sunk their retirement and future into places like that so they can get BIG returns can only be help partially accountable...EVERYBODY want's the quick buck and an easy ride....

Tea parties do nothing to help anyone achieve wealth or the realization of his/her dreams; they are nothing but bitch sessions and are a colossal waste of time and energy.

Ex, I can tell you for me, it is NOT just a bitch session....It is an invigorating experience and a motivational movement of like-minded people who WANT, with all of their hearts, for our Government to get back to the basics of what they are there for...and that is represent the people.....I know that I am sick to death of fraudulent activities that our gov has been doing for the last several years....you are going to see more and more of these in the upcoming months.....for me, it was NOT a bitch session against Obama, but it was more of a pep rally for restoring America......Cheesy?...to some....but not to me it wasn't at all.

[pariann]

Who decides what is a waste of time for someone else?

[Exterminator]

I agree there will ALWAYS be those who put self interest and greed, ahead of everyone else..for power and money...always has been and always will be...

Lots of them.

..We need to hold these guys accountable and punish them to the full extent when the break the laws...

And when what they are doing is technically not illegal?

...also, people who want something for nothing are to blame....those who put their trust into companies like Enron and sunk their retirement and future into places like that so they can get BIG returns can only be help partially accountable...EVERYBODY want's the quick buck and an easy ride....

This is such a crock of horse-shit I don't even know where to start.  Investing in Enron was no different than investing in any other publicly held company.  Holding the investors even remotely responsible for their fraud is assinine.

Ex, I can tell you for me, it is NOT just a bitch session....It is an invigorating experience and a motivational movement of like-minded people who WANT, with all of their hearts, for our Government to get back to the basics of what they are there for...and that is represent the people.....I know that I am sick to death of fraudulent activities that our gov has been doing for the last several years....you are going to see more and more of these in the upcoming months.....for me, it was NOT a bitch session against Obama, but it was more of a pep rally for restoring America......Cheesy?...to some....but not to me it wasn't at all.

And what did you accomplish?

[Henry Hawk]

And when what they are doing is technically not illegal?

either make it a law or live with it....

This is such a crock of horse-shit I don't even know where to start.  Investing in Enron was no different than investing in any other publicly held company.  Holding the investors even remotely responsible for their fraud is assinine.

I'm kind of thinking outloud here, but it has always seemed to me, that the stock market has gotten away from people who may have believed in a particular stock and chose to invest in it....and has simply become a way to get money for nothing...It has become nothing more than Vegas, rolling the dice and hoping for 7. ...day traders are highly skilled .... gamblers.....I know it is the way things work, but the bottom line is....trying to get rich, by doing nothing more than  risking your hard earned money...and bitchng when things go south.

And what did you accomplish?

by being apart of something that could eventually turn into something big.....part of a voice from some hardworking Americans...

[Henry Hawk]

Who decides what is a waste of time for someone else?

Ex does!...apparently...

[Exterminator]

either make it a law or live with it....

There you go again expecting the government to intervene in your 'free market' economy.  The problem with this strategy is that too many politicians owe too many favors to business and the laws that get passed enable business rather than protect the people.

I'm kind of thinking outloud here, but it has always seemed to me, that the stock market has gotten away from people who may have believed in a particular stock and chose to invest in it....and has simply become a way to get money for nothing...It has become nothing more than Vegas, rolling the dice and hoping for 7. ...day traders are highly skilled .... gamblers.....I know it is the way things work, but the bottom line is....trying to get rich, by doing nothing more than  risking your hard earned money...and bitchng when things go south.

Correct but it is also where our retirement accounts are invested.

by being apart of something that could eventually turn into something big.....part of a voice from some hardworking Americans...

So really nothing.

[mcgonser]

[dan foster]

Dan, our whole economic structure is built upon the free enterprise, or capitallist, system. You can look at other countries and see that without this there is no motivation to succeed. That is what America is about and what has gotten us here. The trouble now is that Goverment wants to run everything, what part of socialism do you hear, and it will ruin us. We have had a good system in the past and need to relook and re-evaluate it. The first thing we need to do is get the greed out of it. Lobbyist and congress ho's who have corrupted it. That is my opinion.

Not-for-profit businesses are an inherent part of our free enterprise system.  I've worked for some.  Remove the profit from health care (why should anyone profit from the pain of others?) and the greed will disappear (at least from that segment).  There is nothing socialist about not-for-profit, so take the right-wing talking point to another discussion.  BTW - unchecked capitalism is just as bad as any other 'ism.  Take your pick.  To put it another way; unchecked greed is just as bad as any other vice.

[LOsborne]

..also, people who want something for nothing are to blame....those who put their trust into companies like Enron and sunk their retirement and future into places like that so they can get BIG returns can only be help partially accountable...

Whoa, Henry. The Enron employees' 401(k) funds were invested entirely in Enron stock, and the employees themselves could not! make changes to that investment.

   Those 11,000 employees whose 401(k) funds were invested exclusively in Enron -- and who were forbidden by Enron's own rules from diversifying -- today have no retirement plan at all.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/34293.html

Now you want to blame the employees? That seems judgmental on your part, with very little evidence to find these employees guilty. Once again, check your facts before you use an example to support your point.

[Elaine]

Well, if ya ask me, and no one did, I think nationalized health care is the way to go.  The weak die faster, smokers get the shaft on a national level (effectively removing that responsibility from the states), fat people will pay skinny people for black market cholesterol pills, heart pills and fluid pills (thus keeping the law of supply and demand current), and NO MORE VIAGRA ADS!
Such a perfect plan.

but you do have to ask yourself, if the govt has made such a grand mess of governing itself, what kind of mess are we really going to have when they govern your medical treatments and access to hospital services??  I can tell you, i plan to run for congress and get myself out of that loop.

[LOsborne]

....but you do have to ask yourself, if the govt has made such a grand mess of governing itself, what kind of mess are we really going to have when they govern your medical treatments and access to hospital services??  ...

You mean, as opposed to the way it is now, where insurance companies govern your medical treatments and access to hospital services?

[me]

You mean, as opposed to the way it is now, where insurance companies govern your medical treatments and access to hospital services?

At least most people have a choice and under the government no one would.  Well, except for those higher up in government like the ones wanting to put us on government ran insurance.   

[Sandy Eggo]

I think that many of you are jumping the gun. The Faux rightwingdings have twisted the idea of the propsal. Wasn't the initial plan for healthcare coverage similar to what Federal employees have now? If so, it's my understanding they do have a choice. Maybe you should ask a federal employee to see how they like their health benefits.

[me]

I think that many of you are jumping the gun. The Faux rightwingdings have twisted the idea of the propsal. Wasn't the initial plan for healthcare coverage similar to what Federal employees have now? If so, it's my understanding they do have a choice. Maybe you should ask a federal employee to see how they like their health benefits.

Come on now, do you really think we'll end up with the kind of care congress gets?  If that happens our taxes will have to go up so much it would cost more than buying private health insurance which a lot of us can't afford in the first place.  How much is this "free" health care really going to cost us?

[LOsborne]

At least most people have a choice and under the government no one would.

You've been listening to Bill-O again, haven't you. I spent the past weekend in Dayton with a girlfriend who needs a heart doctor. She called the four who were recommended by her GP. None of them will accept her insurance. Her insurance is Blue Cross/Blue Shield. So just for shiggles, we asked about my insurance. Mine is CIGNA. They wouldn't take that either. The reason the doctors won't take the insurance, is the discount that insurance companies insist on for "reasonable and customary" charges. Now, what was that about choice, again?