Nazi brown shirts again?

[mcgonser]

OMG I new the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts were Nazis all along! 


If you don't think pre-K is a good idea then you haven't been in a public kindergarten to see how many kids don't even know how to recognize their own name in print!

I bet these two great orginizations really appreciate your putting them in the same group as Nazi youth. last I heard they were a volunteer org. like football, baseball, soccer, 4-H, FFA etc.

Shame on the parents who don't teach their kids the fundamentals to go to school. It is not my fault. I just thought that pre-kind was so parents wouldn't have to pay child care for their kids. The schools have our children too much as it is.

[Ma and Pa]

mcgonser: kimmi was just playing with us; as a teacher, she may have an appreciation for kids on a level the rest of us aren't so well versed with. And she wouldn't teach if she didn't LOVE the little monsters!

I've always thought pre-K was probably attractive to parents who really wanted to give their kids a leg up -- a head start, if you will, on their formal education. But you may be right, too. Some may be passing their parental responsibilities on to others, 'cause they're "just SOOOO busy".   

[me]

In my one grandson's case a pre-k type school was a good thing because he is an only child and he needed to learn to interact with other kids.  He could count, tie his shoes, and do some other things but just needed the interaction to come out of his extreme shyness.  It did him a world of good.

[kimmi]

Mdgonser that was my point.  What gardengirl is describing is basically the same type of organization as the scouts and yet believes that Obama has some sort of hidden agenda to make them like a small nazi army.  Preposterous!

But now uniforms are part of the deal and taking youth to "camps" to teach this. These are all ideas that communist Saul Alinsky has put forward to brainwash a captive youth.

Pa I wouldn't be so upset if parents would at least put those kids in front of Sesame Street or Reading Rainbow, but it isn't happening.  You are right in that the parents and extended family has not done their job if these children don't come to Kindergarten with basic knowledge like colors, shapes, and counting.  I can also see that some parents would use it for free daycare.  With the cost of childcare these days, I can't say that I blame them.  However, these parents will use this service for those aren't really caring about the amount of time "the man" is brainwashing their child - to put it in someone else's words. 

Some children don't need it.  Some need it for academics and some, like Me's grandson, needs it for social adaption.  It should be available.

[mcgonser]

My question is? Why is important for kids to get oriented earlier than kindergarten? That use to be the year that they learned to stand in line, get along with others and sit down for more than 5 minutes. It just seems that we are pushing our kids earlier and earlier to adapt to society. JMO

[kimmi]

Clearly you don't know the kinds of standards that are put into place now for promotion out of kindergarten.  Kindergarten students are now reading, writing, and doing basic math.   It isn't the old half day cut and paste that you remember.

[kimmi]

My question is? Why is important for kids to get oriented earlier than kindergarten? That use to be the year that they learned to stand in line, get along with others and sit down for more than 5 minutes. It just seems that we are pushing our kids earlier and earlier to adapt to society. JMO

Welcome to the world of NCLB!

[Ma and Pa]

I think the main factor is that kids then -- you, me, and many others on this forum, were raised differently. We were taught manners (I've used that word a lot today), respect for adults and the possessions of others, and the importance of learning. We had chores at home, which taught us responsibility, and we were disciplined when we were out of line. And we were NOT over-exposed to the electronic media crap that assails young-uns today. Like Dylan said a long time ago: the times they are a-changin'; and they will continue to do so. Maybe pre-K and formal day care are more needed today because they give kids something they used to get at home; it's not needed by the ones who are really being parented.

[dan foster]

Only you and the Whack Nut Daily could twist volunteerism, community service and teaching youth social/civic responsibility into a bad thing.

You just defined all the attributes of a group of youth whom helped in kristallnacht.  They were known as the Hitler Youth movement.  I can envision the Mormons doing the same thing with the Scouts, as well.  We need voluteer'ism, but not coerced, little darlings.

[kimmi]

It is so true Pa.  You wouldn't believe the number of parents who ask me how to raise their children knowing I don't have any of my own.  It is funny how a few years of experience puts me on this end of the conversation rather than the "You wouldn't know because you don't have children!" side.  The very first thing I tell them is routine and consistency.  This is why children who are holy terrors are sometimes not like that at school.  They learn the expectation.  They know what each day will bring.  There are few surprises or changes.  They also thrive on rules and limits. 

I wish there was a new parenting guru that maybe Oprah would highlight as the next best thing who would bring back good old fashioned manners, discipline, and respect.  I had better get on with writing my book then!    I could be the Dr. Spock of the 2000's!

[Ma and Pa]

"You GO, girl!" (Isn't that what Oprah says?)

[me]

It is so true Pa.  You wouldn't believe the number of parents who ask me how to raise their children knowing I don't have any of my own.  It is funny how a few years of experience puts me on this end of the conversation rather than the "You wouldn't know because you don't have children!" side.  The very first thing I tell them is routine and consistency.  This is why children who are holy terrors are sometimes not like that at school.  They learn the expectation.  They know what each day will bring.  There are few surprises or changes.  They also thrive on rules and limits. 

I wish there was a new parenting guru that maybe Oprah would highlight as the next best thing who would bring back good old fashioned manners, discipline, and respect.  I had better get on with writing my book then!    I could be the Dr. Spock of the 2000's!

If you must write a book undo what Dr. Spock did.  His theories ruined a whole generation at least, maybe two.

[dan foster]

If you must write a book undo what Dr. Spock did.  His theories ruined a whole generation at least, maybe two.

So, whom do we blame the other generation's problems on?  Who was the Dr Spock that gave us the the waring teens, the roaring twenties, the criminal thirties, the waring fourties, the racist fifties, the greedy 2000's.  Just exactly which generation deserves more credit for being the right one, over those who Spock "destroyed"?  I started in the 20's, but there have never been any "good old days", so where would you reach for the "right way"?  The generation that gave and kept slavery as a system from before the US until the 1860's, Jim Crow after that?  Sorry, don't buy the "old fashioned" ideal that doesn't exist.

[me]

So, whom do we blame the other generation's problems on?  Who was the Dr Spock that gave us the the waring teens, the roaring twenties, the criminal thirties, the waring fourties, the racist fifties, the greedy 2000's.  Just exactly which generation deserves more credit for being the right one, over those who Spock "destroyed"?  I started in the 20's, but there have never been any "good old days", so where would you reach for the "right way"?  The generation that gave and kept slavery as a system from before the US until the 1860's, Jim Crow after that?  Sorry, don't buy the "old fashioned" ideal that doesn't exist.

Why are you such a nay sayer about everything Dan?  You seem to be soured on just about everything from what I can see.  Do you ever say anything up beat or positive?  Are you that unhappy?

[Dexter Morgan]

Boy, this thread is a sad reminder of what this forum has become. What ever happened to being able to discuss without name calling, and bashing? It used to be people could give their opinion here without all the anger and hate. People could discuss things in a civil manner without being snarky and rude. Man, we're all headed for hell in a hand basket, aren't we? So very,very sad.