Obama's Effort to Reduce the Deficit Should Make Us All Happy.

[Ghost of Jaco]

Because there are no buyers...sort of hints at a demand-side economy; huh?

No buyers? Because they can't afford the cars...I see. Ok, I agree. Maybe if they had more money they could afford to buy cars. Let's see....where does a large chunk of everyone's money go...I know! To the Gov't through taxation!

Maybe in la-la land the rich own the companies but in the real world, most of the major employers aside from the government are publicly held and the ownership of their stock is spread out amongst the spectrum of socio-economic classes.

With a majority of the stock typically held by....wealthy people. Shares of stock means votes in the functioning of the company. Once again, the wealthy control the companies.
Most poor people can't even afford brokerage fees, let alone 10, 000 shares of even a penny stock. By definition, "poor", means, "barely enough or not enough money to live on". Anyone who can afford to buy a controlling share of stock in a corporation is not poor. So my statement stands.

I did read the article and as I mentioned, it's too bad the shill that wrote it wasn't clairvoyant and couldn't have seen how ridiculous it would sound in the midst of an economic collapse.

There is nothing ridiculous about it. Apparently you are one of the poor minions that you disparage at every opportunity, because you have no clue as to the motivations of the wealthy. That article is quite succinct and correct in it's analysis of how tax cuts motivate the wealthy to create jobs. Even the not-so-wealthy, for that matter.

It's more likely that they're gullible and can't separate the economic fiction from their sociological and religious ideologies.

Well, you certainly cannot separate your economic fiction from your ideology, now can you?
You should follow the link that I provided as a companion piece to the article Henry linked about tax cuts.
Once you understand how free-market economies REALLY work, instead of how you HOPE (and CHANGE!) they work, you'll be better prepared to discuss these matters.

Letting people who are already employed keep more of their money does nothing to employ those who are not and accomplishes nothing in the way of increasing productivity.  Using that money to effect much needed infrastructure improvements puts people to work.

Yes it does. Once again, go learn the basics of how free-market economies work, Ex. The Gov't has no money of it's own. All it can do is to take money from one group of citizens and (as inefficiently as possible, experience would indicate) give it another.
Mr. 442's swimming pool analogy is quite apt: Taxing the citizens to pay for the Gov't to employ other citizens is indeed very much like scooping water out of the deep end of the pool and pouring into the shallow end, hoping to make the shallow end deeper.

Because I'm a nice guy, I'll make a recommendation to you: After you read the basics economics primer I linked, drop by your local library and pick up "The Millionaire Next Door", and, "The Millionaire Mind", both by author Thomas J. Stanley. Read those and you will better understand how the wealthy view money, and what motivates them.

[Exterminator]

With a majority of the stock typically held by....wealthy people.

Nope, the majority of the stock is held by pension and mutual funds that are the bulk of the IRA's and retirement accounts of the middle class.

[followsthewolf]

I didn't blithely disregards them at all, ftw. You have missed my point.
Your example of a welfare mom who has pulled herself up and out of welfare and now has a company that employs others is an example of how the "safety net" system should work. I congratulate her! It is my sincere hope that every welfare recipient does the same.

However, she is no longer a "welfare" mom; thus, you do not know a welfare mom who owns a company that employs others at high-paying jobs with awesome benefits. What you know is a president/CEO/owner of a company who should be giving speeches to current welfare moms on how to get out of the welfare trap!

Your response is incredibly confusing.

She was a welfare mother. She got the help she needed. She isn't a welfare mother any more. The system worked for her and several others I know.

That is EXACTLY what the system is designed to do.

Your point is that when she got out of the system, she was no longer a welfare mother. You choose to dwell on those who do not "get out of the welfare trap."

My point is that the success stories are always overlooked when people want to blatantly stereotype and continue the succession of ignorant thinking.

Dwell on.

[Ghost of Jaco]

Nope, the majority of the stock is held by pension and mutual funds that are the bulk of the IRA's and retirement accounts of the middle class.

That's all that you have? You're a far cry from convincing anyone that the poor are the massive engine of job creation you seem to think that they are, Ex.

[Ghost of Jaco]

Your response is incredibly confusing.

She was a welfare mother. She got the help she needed. She isn't a welfare mother any more. The system worked for her and several others I know.

That is EXACTLY what the system is designed to do.

Your point is that when she got out of the system, she was no longer a welfare mother. You choose to dwell on those who do not "get out of the welfare trap."

My point is that the success stories are always overlooked when people want to blatantly stereotype and continue the succession of ignorant thinking.

Dwell on.

You're still missing the point, ftw. I'm not cracking on the poor. I am merely stating the obvious fact that the poor do not hire people into high-paying jobs with awesome benefits. Wealthy people do, however.
For some reason you seem to think I am putting the poor down, but I am not.
I agree that what your friend did was marvelous! As I said, I wish EVERY welfare recipient would use the safety-net system the way she has, the way it was intended. To climb out of poverty and into wealth of their own!

[followsthewolf]

Lots of very wealthy people don't hire anybody. They just party on, buying and selling; hence, our current stock market.

And, of course, they are simply making sure they make another 4 or 5 million to add to their huge personal wealth, as opposed to engaging the less fortunate in a way to add to the general economy.

How many homes do you need? How many millions/billions/trillions?

It becomes a game with those in those rarified atmospheres -- a one-upmanship game to display opulent wealth in the most trivial of objects, as a sort of throw-away world to prove how wealthy they really are.

Meanwhile, they pat the "less fortunate" on the head, as if they are less intelligent, less important, or less worthy than those whom GAWD has "blessed" with abundance.

Dwell on.

[kimmi]

Lots of very wealthy people don't hire anybody. They just party on, buying and selling; hence, our current stock market.

And, of course, they are simply making sure they make another 4 or 5 million to add to their huge personal wealth, as opposed to engaging the less fortunate in a way to add to the general economy.

How many homes do you need? How many millions/billions/trillions?

It becomes a game with those in those rarified atmospheres -- a one-upmanship game to display opulent wealth in the most trivial of objects, as a sort of throw-away world to prove how wealthy they really are.

Meanwhile, they pat the "less fortunate" on the head, as if they are less intelligent, less important, or less worthy than those whom GAWD has "blessed" with abundance.

Dwell on.

Well said!  You know coming from someone in the lower middle class!!  : )

[followsthewolf]

Thanks, Kimmi. Been there, done that. Got the t-shirt and a few scars from the battles. 

[kimmi]

Well there are a lot of us that are one medical emergency away from government subsidies.  I'm not going to knock anyone for it and I'm certainly not going to hope it goes away.  Reform it?  Sure.  But I want to be sure something is in place if my life takes a wrong turn. 

[Ghost of Jaco]

Lots of very wealthy people don't hire anybody. They just party on, buying and selling; hence, our current stock market.

And, of course, they are simply making sure they make another 4 or 5 million to add to their huge personal wealth, as opposed to engaging the less fortunate in a way to add to the general economy.

How many homes do you need? How many millions/billions/trillions?

It becomes a game with those in those rarified atmospheres -- a one-upmanship game to display opulent wealth in the most trivial of objects, as a sort of throw-away world to prove how wealthy they really are.

Meanwhile, they pat the "less fortunate" on the head, as if they are less intelligent, less important, or less worthy than those whom GAWD has "blessed" with abundance.

Dwell on.

Lot's of wealthy people, ftw? Tell me, exactly how many? You know nothing about wealthy people.
Go to the library and get the book, "The Millionaire Next Door".  Read it and learn who the millionaires are and how they got that way.
There may be a few, a very tiny fraction, of the millionaires in this country who act in the manner that you describe.
The overwhelming majority are hardworking people who made smart choices and continue to do so.
And most of them started small, saved and invested, sacrificed and scrimped to get where they are today.
But if you wish to hate those who made smarter choices than you, those who took the opportunities that lay before them, then as you say, "dwell on". But it is that mindset that will keep you from joining the ranks of the wealthy.

[Ghost of Jaco]

Well there are a lot of us that are one medical emergency away from government subsidies.  I'm not going to knock anyone for it and I'm certainly not going to hope it goes away.  Reform it?  Sure.  But I want to be sure something is in place if my life takes a wrong turn. 

If it is true that you are just one medical emergency away, then why don't you DO something about it? Get off your lazy butt and take control of your life and your destiny! Go start that sandwich company we were joking about on that other thread!
Work hard, make smart choices, and you too can become wealthy.

But Heavens, girl! Don't look to Big Daddy Gov't. to save you. In case you haven't noticed, they are the very ones who got us into this mess!

[kimmi]

If it is true that you are just one medical emergency away, then why don't you DO something about it? Get off your lazy butt and take control of your life and your destiny! Go start that sandwich company we were joking about on that other thread!
Work hard, make smart choices, and you too can become wealthy.

But Heavens, girl! Don't look to Big Daddy Gov't. to save you. In case you haven't noticed, they are the very ones who got us into this mess!

I teach full time and tutor on the side.  I'm a home owner and pay all of my bills.  If I go out today and end up in a 10 car pile up and have to stay in the hospital for a couple of weeks and have a few surgeries, then I'll be in the hole. 

I'm far from lazy and offended that you would assume as much.

[Exterminator]

Lot's of wealthy people, ftw? Tell me, exactly how many? You know nothing about wealthy people.
Go to the library and get the book, "The Millionaire Next Door".  Read it and learn who the millionaires are and how they got that way.

LMAO!  So you know about wealthy people because you read it in a book?  You could at least make it sound plausible and tell us about your yachting buddies.

There may be a few, a very tiny fraction, of the millionaires in this country who act in the manner that you describe.
The overwhelming majority are hardworking people who made smart choices and continue to do so.
And most of them started small, saved and invested, sacrificed and scrimped to get where they are today.

Actually, the overwhelming majority were born into it.

But if you wish to hate those who made smarter choices than you, those who took the opportunities that lay before them, then as you say, "dwell on". But it is that mindset that will keep you from joining the ranks of the wealthy.

No hate but your perception of how wealthy people 'invest' their money is skewed.  How many people are employed when someone buys a $1.6 million Bugatti Veyron or spends ten mil on a Picasso or a huge diamond?  Why would the truly wealthy risk their money on a factory that has as much potential to lose money as make it instead of simply buying gold or real property and sitting on it, especially in this economy?

[Ghost of Jaco]

I teach full time and tutor on the side.  I'm a home owner and pay all of my bills.  If I go out today and end up in a 10 car pile up and have to stay in the hospital for a couple of weeks and have a few surgeries, then I'll be in the hole. 

I'm far from lazy and offended that you would assume as much.

It was not my intent to offend, kimmi. I meant "lazy" in a general, kidding sense, like, "I need to get my lazy butt to the grocery, lol!".
I don't think you are lazy, kimmi. My apologies if you took it that way. Tone of voice is hard to perceive in written/typed communications.

[Ghost of Jaco]

LMAO!  So you know about wealthy people because you read it in a book?  You could at least make it sound plausible and tell us about your yachting buddies.

Ha! I demonstrably know more about them than you! You are the moron who thinks the poor (who you hold in contempt, btw) are some "massive engine of job creation", lol!

Several of my acquaintances have boats, but only one has a yacht, that I am aware of anyway.
He and I spent half a night hitting clubs in Manhattan a couple of years ago. That was after we spent part of the afternoon in Times Square, at the NASDAQ offices. We were there to celebrate the company's IPO.

Actually, the overwhelming majority were born into it.

That is not true. And you are either ignorant or a damn liar. I am calling you out on that one, Ex: prove it.
If you prove that statement to be fact, then I will publicly apologize for ever doubting your brilliance and I will leave this board forever.

No hate but your perception of how wealthy people 'invest' their money is skewed.  How many people are employed when someone buys a $1.6 million Bugatti Veyron or spends ten mil on a Picasso or a huge diamond? 

No hate? You OOZE contempt, dude! Geezul Pete! The only thing you have more of than contempt is the arrogance to think that you don't, lol!

How many are employed when someone buys a car? I don't know, but we are getting an idea of how many lose their jobs when people DON'T buy cars, aren't we?  And you think that taking more money away from people who can't afford to buy cars, via taxation, is somehow going to motivate them to start buying cars.  Of course, with your understanding of economics, if we tax them at 100% they can finally start building factories and hiring people to build cars for them, right?

Why would the truly wealthy risk their money on a factory that has as much potential to lose money as make it instead of simply buying gold or real property and sitting on it, especially in this economy?

Hey! A kewpie for Ex for having a brief moment of mental clarity!
That's the point, Ex. They won't build new factories; in fact, they are closing them down and people are losing their jobs. And they DO park their money in tangible assets in difficult economic times.

Maybe you should ask the poor build us some new factories and start creating high-paying jobs by the thousands, since you deem them so capable of doing so.



PS: I mean it, Ex. I will leave this board forever. All you have to do is prove that your statement above, "Actually, the overwhelming majority were born into (wealth)", is the truth rather than a lie.
Don't talk smack and don't change the subject. Just. Prove. It.