Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan

[me]

I think maybe you had better pay attention yourself.

I described a life-threatening situation.

Where in your little op-ed article does it say that doctors will have to refuse treatment in such a situation?

I would say it would depend on the age of the patient and whether they consider it as life threatening.  What you think will have no bearing on what they have to go by. 

[Bo D]

I would say it would depend on the age of the patient and whether they consider it as life threatening.  What you think will have no bearing on what they have to go by. 

When your neck has swollen shut from an allergic reaction and you have to have a breathing tube inserted, I don't think many people (except you) would argue that is is a life-threatening situation.

[me]

When your neck has swollen shut from an allergic reaction and you have to have a breathing tube inserted, I don't think many people (except you) would argue that is is a life-threatening situation.

I know it's life threatening and so do you but the fact remains whether that the determining factor of it getting treated under the proposed health care package will be made by the government and the Dr. will have to follow their recommendation on whether to treat it and how.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).

So if it is deemed that it would not be cost effective, possibly because of age or condition of the patient, she would not even be treated.  Hell she might not even get examined until it's too late.   What you or even the Dr. might think don't even enter into the picture.  Go do some research on the bill Bo D. 

[Bo D]

I know it's life threatening and so do you but the fact remains whether that the determining factor of it getting treated under the proposed health care package will be made by the government and the Dr. will have to follow their recommendation on whether to treat it and how.  So if it is deemed that it would not be cost effective, possibly because of age or condition of the patient, she would not even be treated.  Hell she might not even get examined until it's too late.   What you or even the Dr. might think don't even enter into the picture.  Go do some research on the bill Bo D. 

I did do the research.

Your OPINION PIECE claimed that the stimulus bill would cause a newly created office to "monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective" which was, in essence, "enforcing uniformity." The portions of the text to which she cites, however, do nothing of the sort. Sec. 3001(b) of the bill, which sets forth the "purposes" of the substantive provisions, does not in and of itself do anything but set forth the reason for the substantive provisions. The bill gives the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology no duties to review actual treatments but only to establish standards for a technology infrastructure that would allow doctors to better guide their patients' treatments and to ensure that doctors are given the appropriate tools to establish a proper course of treatment.

[Bo D]

Oh yeah ... that "new office" that would control medical treatment .... was already established on April 27, 2004, by President George W. Bush, under Executive Order #13335

[Exterminator]

Snap!

[me]

OMG!!!!  The particular page referred to in the article has been removed or moved but while digging I was amazed at how complicated they can make this stuff and how tied in a knot it can all get.  It is sooo repetitive, cross referrenced, and lengthy it's ridiculous.    Check some of this stuff out.  I am going to continue digging but in the meantime if you have never tried to go through this stuff I suggest you do it. If you have more power to you. I know some of you have been researching and know the ropes pretty well but I'm new to it and will admit it and am just in it to my toes so far. 
I'm not backing down from being leery of what's going on with the nationalized health care one little bit as I am sure you aren't going to back down about being all for it but how far have you really dug into it?  Do you realize what it really means?  Are you just going by what you've read from your sources too? 
I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I just hope I'm not the one saying "I told you so".

[me]

Oh here's the link where I was searching for info about the amendement:  http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:SP00098:

[Bo D]

OMG!!!!  The particular page referred to in the article has been removed or moved

How convenient for you. 

but while digging I was amazed at how complicated they can make this stuff and how tied in a knot it can all get.  It is sooo repetitive, cross referrenced, and lengthy it's ridiculous.    Check some of this stuff out.

I did. And I posted the text of the bill that got your panties in a wad.

I am going to continue digging but in the meantime if you have never tried to go through this stuff I suggest you do it. If you have more power to you. I know some of you have been researching and know the ropes pretty well but I'm new to it and will admit it and am just in it to my toes so far.

If you can't stand the heat .... don't try to play with the big dogs.

I'm not backing down from being leery of what's going on with the nationalized health care one little bit as I am sure you aren't going to back down about being all for it but how far have you really dug into it?  Do you realize what it really means?  Are you just going by what you've read from your sources too? 
I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I just hope I'm not the one saying "I told you so".

My source? I used the source you posted which pointed to an EASILY accessible GOVERNMENT web site listing the full text of the bill. If you don't care enough to carefully read before you post, why do you post this garbage at all?

Here... I'll make it easy for you ... this is the actual wording of the bill (pages 441-443) that Betsy McCaughey of the Hudson Institute (hmmm....where have we heard that before) hacked.

19 ''(b) PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall per
20 form the duties under subsection (c) in a manner con
21 sistent with the development of a nationwide health infor
22 mation technology infrastructure that allows for the elec
23 tronic use and exchange of information and that—

442
•HR 1 EH
1 ''(1) ensures that each patient's health informa
2 tion is secure and protected, in accordance with ap
3 plicable law;
4 ''(2) improves health care quality, reduces med
5 ical errors, reduces health disparities, and advances
6 the delivery of patient-centered medical care;
7 ''(3) reduces health care costs resulting from
8 inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, du
9 plicative care, and incomplete information;
10 ''(4) provides appropriate information to help
11 guide medical decisions at the time and place of
12 care;
13 ''(5) ensures the inclusion of meaningful public
14 input in such development of such infrastructure;
15 ''(6) improves the coordination of care and in
16 formation among hospitals, laboratories, physician
17 offices, and other entities through an effective infra
18 structure for the secure and authorized exchange of
19 health care information;
20 ''(7) improves public health activities and facili
21 tates the early identification and rapid response to
22 public health threats and emergencies, including bio
23 terror events and infectious disease outbreaks;
24 ''(Cool facilitates health and clinical research and
25 health care quality;

443
•HR 1 EH
1 ''(9) promotes prevention of chronic diseases;
2 ''(10) promotes a more effective marketplace,
3 greater competition, greater systems analysis, in
4 creased consumer choice, and improved outcomes in
5 health care services; and
6 ''(11) improves efforts to reduce health dispari
7 ties.

[me]

You hand picked just like I did and yes, the page had been removed or moved and was no longer accessible.  Did you bother to go look at what I was talking about?  We are both reading what someone else picked out not the actual wording of the bill as it was written so there are things added and things omitted. All any of us can do is hope they really aren't sneaking in things that are detrimental to our well being. And I'm still not backing down from what I feel is trying to happen. 

[Bo D]

You hand picked just like I did and yes, the page had been removed or moved and was no longer accessible.  Did you bother to go look at what I was talking about?  We are both reading what someone else picked out not the actual wording of the bill as it was written so there are things added and things omitted. All any of us can do is hope they really aren't sneaking in things that are detrimental to our well being. And I'm still not backing down from what I feel is trying to happen. 

Hand Picked? LOL!!!!!

I posted the EXACT WORDING of the bill from the very pages that your little OPINION "source" referenced.

You have already admitted that you can't research. Can you read?

Try this.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1eh.txt.pdf

[fireguy]

The government does a far more efficient job at delivering healthcare with via medicare than any insurance company. With a fraction of the administration costs and no money going towards insurance profit.
Other countries have successfully implemented single-payer healtcare for years. And they blow the doors of the US in any statistical category, be it health or money related.

[me]

Hand Picked? LOL!!!!!

I posted the EXACT WORDING of the bill from the very pages that your little OPINION "source" referenced.

You have already admitted that you can't research. Can you read?

Try this.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1eh.txt.pdf

Yes, I can read.  There are some things I am uncomfortable with about the plan.  The committee that determines which drugs and treatments are cost effective and which are not as well as whether they can be used under certain circumstances concerns me.  How far are they going to take that? 
I guess you just woke up one morning and knew all about how to research things huh?  You didn't have to learn you're so smart it just came natural.  Must be nice to be so smart ya never have to go through the learning process. 

[me]

The government does a far more efficient job at delivering healthcare with via medicare than any insurance company. With a fraction of the administration costs and no money going towards insurance profit.
Other countries have successfully implemented single-payer healtcare for years. And they blow the doors of the US in any statistical category, be it health or money related.

Guess the excellent health care in Canada is why my cousin is glad they had moved to the States when her husband, a Canadian, was diagnosed with cancer, and had to undergo treatments which included a stem cell transplant to hopefully be cured.  He is now in remission and doing quite well.

[Exterminator]

If you don't care enough to carefully read before you post, why do you post this garbage at all?

If this were a forum rule, the conservative side of every discussion here would disappear.