Those Against Abortion yet Pro-Capital Punishment and War

[Dexter Morgan]

By definition, an aborted fetus was not born.  It is cute that you think you have a say in our government, though. 

And why exactly is your opinion better than anybody else's? 

[Exterminator]

He's now engaged to her... what else ya got? <snicker snicker> 

I guess that means he's pro-choice.

[Ghost of Jaco]

When they find a way to successfully transplant the embryo into the biological father's body, then I'd say, "yes he should definitely have a say". Until then (and maybe even after that) I'd say that the decision to include the father in the decision to abort or keep the child is  dependant on the woman's preference.

What you have claimed is that, given that it were possible to transplant a embryo into the body of another, the second host would only have a partial say in what can happen. The original host retains the right to overrule the second host.
I would be most intrigued by your argument in support of that contention, I think.

[Dexter Morgan]

Na... he's just not smart enough to see what's been lost.  Someday, they'll probably have kids. The sad part is that even though she killed her twins, she'll probably have perfectly healthy children someday, that she doesn't deserve. 

[Sandy Eggo]

What you have claimed is that, given that it were possible to transplant a embryo into the body of another, the second host would only have a partial say in what can happen. The original host retains the right to overrule the second host.
I would be most intrigued by your argument in support of that contention, I think.

Uh, no.

The first party says that she doesn't want the embryo in her body. The second party says, I want to keep it. So, they do a transplant and both get what they want. I assume she'd transfer all rights and decision making w/the transplanted embryo. If that were a possibility.

Until that point, she retains the right to include him in the decision making process or not.

The fact that a man gets a woman pregnant doesn't give him any inclusive rights to make decisions regarding her body.

[Palehorse]

Uh, no.

The first party says that she doesn't want the embryo in her body. The second party says, I want to keep it. So, they do a transplant and both get what they want. I assume she'd transfer all rights and decision making w/the transplanted embryo. If that were a possibility.

Until that point, she retains the right to include him in the decision making process or not.

The fact that a man gets a woman pregnant doesn't give him any inclusive rights to make decisions regarding her body.

Then that means she would pay child support, pay a portion of the medical bills, and provide 50% of college tuition as well. . . right?

[Ghost of Jaco]

Hummm. . . wait a minute now, let's back up for a second or two. . . The subject of child support seems to be something we should also explore here. . .

If a woman has (should have) the singular choice as to whether to rid herself of a parasite or not, then how can she then force the male to support that choice should it be to allow the parasite to achieve full-term and result in a human life? How is that fair? If the male's perspective is not brought into the process, then why does he hold any responsibility for the result? 

(Now I'll admit up front that I support the, " if you put your Johnson in the water then you have to pay" perspective at the moment, but the singular woman's choice argument does beg the question, no?)

I support that, too, and also the "Once the water warm and wet, she invited him in for a swim" perspective, lol!

I have commented about a woman's choice thus: Once a woman's knickers have hit the floor, she has made her choice.

[Sandy Eggo]

Then that means she would pay child support, pay a portion of the medical bills, and provide 50% of college tuition as well. . . right?

Well, there's certainly nothing saying that he can't petition for child support and he'd be well within his rights.

I personally view child support as a form of legal extortion. You can't make someone be a parent.   

[me]

Well, there's certainly nothing saying that he can't petition for child support and he'd be well within his rights.

I personally view child support as a form of legal extortion. You can't make someone be a parent.   

While paying child support doesn't make one a parent in itself they do have a certain responsibility to see the child is taken care of as far as necessities.  The only time I would consider it a form of extortion is when the receiving parent uses it as a tool against the other parent which does happen.

[Ghost of Jaco]

Uh, no.

The first party says that she doesn't want the embryo in her body. The second party says, I want to keep it. So, they do a transplant and both get what they want. I assume she'd transfer all rights and decision making w/the transplanted embryo. If that were a possibility.

Until that point, she retains the right to include him in the decision making process or not.

The fact that a man gets a woman pregnant doesn't give him any inclusive rights to make decisions regarding her body.

Correction noted.

Say! that begets a question or two:
What if a man and a woman use in vitro for conception and implant the embryo in a surrogate? Who, then, has "rights" to tear the little bugger into pieces and flush it out with the rest of the biological waste? And who's legally responsible for it if it's damn lucky to make it out alive?

What if the egg donor changes her mind, but the sperm donor and the surrogate do not?
What if it's only the sperm donor who changes his mind?
What if both donors change their minds but the surrogate does not?
What if only the surrogate changes her mind?
Do the answers change if the doctor made the implant without the donor's knowledge and consent?

(I'm starting to like my "everybody has a right to their own DNA argument" better and better, lol!)

[Ghost of Jaco]

Well, there's certainly nothing saying that he can't petition for child support and he'd be well within his rights.

I personally view child support as a form of legal extortion. You can't make someone be a parent.  

I get child support from my ex-wife. I just think of it as she doing her part to make the lives of her children better.

[Sandy Eggo]

Couldn't she do that without a court order?

[Ghost of Jaco]

Couldn't she do that without a court order?

Was that question to me, Sandy?
If so, we do not have child support payments specified in our decree.
I have physical custody of our daughters (they live with me) and we share legal custody.
What she pays, she pays voluntarily. So far everything has been pretty amicable.

[Sandy Eggo]

Was that question to me, Sandy?
If so, we do not have child support payments specified in our decree.
I have physical custody of our daughters (they live with me) and we share legal custody.
What she pays, she pays voluntarily. So far everything has been pretty amicable.

It was and thanks.

I wasn't clear in my initial statement. I meant, "court ordered" child support. I certainly think that people, male or female, who make a decision to bring children into the world should provide for them and so much the better when they step up to the responsibility w/out being ordered to.

I've seen too many cases where court ordered child support turns into something that has nothing to do with the well being of the child(ren).

Kudos to you and your ex.

[Palehorse]

It was and thanks.

I wasn't clear in my initial statement. I meant, "court ordered" child support. I certainly think that people, male or female, who make a decision to bring children into the world should provide for them and so much the better when they step up to the responsibility w/out being ordered to.

I've seen too many cases where court ordered child support turns into something that has nothing to do with the well being of the child(ren).

Kudos to you and your ex.

I don't disagree with that but the question is what about the cases where one doesn't want to bring the life into the world and the other does. Is the one who opposed obligated to support that decision financially, and what if they do not want to or cannot?