Those Against Abortion yet Pro-Capital Punishment and War

[Ghost of Jaco]

Thanks, I was too busy to look it up.

[Doc]

More of the same.  Anti-abortion = pro crime.  A majority of those 50 million aborted fetuses would have grown up to be liberal coke heads who would have robbed you at gun point in your trailer.

Actually, there is no way to prove or disprove the contention that abortion lowers crime. There re many factors involved in crime, the most important being economic. You cannot know if any baby brought to term or fetus that was aborted would act later on.

[kimmi]

I find it very interesting that the men have seemed to take over this thread/fight.  I guess that is why policies are drawn up the way they are.  Woman seem to have a different approach I guess, but the squeaky wheel seems to be heard. 

How about we just let a woman decide what she does with her body.  If she aborts, well then maybe she will have to answer to that at a later time.  If she keeps the baby and is a horrible parent, again she will probably have to answer to that too.  It is not my place one way or the other to tell someone what to do with themselves, just as I would not want anyone to tell me what I can and cannot do.  Doesn't mean I would have one today, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have had one at a young age. 

[Exterminator]

How about we just let a woman decide what she does with her body.

Hear, hear.

[Sandy Eggo]

I agree, the entire issue can be summed up with that one sentence.

[Palehorse]

I agree, the entire issue can be summed up with that one sentence.

Agreed.

Good job Kim! 

[kimmi]

Thanks guys.  I mean it is such a pointless arguement since there truly is no right or wrong answer. 

You might as well be taking the Pepsi Challenge and arguing over Coke or Pepsi. 

[Monroe]

Then let's all just agree to execute some people, just because justice demands it.  As an added bonus, they then won't kill anybody else.

---------------

How many killers set free, to kill again, is it worth to guarantee an innocent person will never be executed? 

Or how many people killed by released (or still imprisoned) killers is it worth to guarantee an innocent person will never be executed? 

Which number would be greater?

And, do people actually have a right to self defense?  Or to prevent your killing of a person, must you let them kill you?

These are much more interesting questions.

[Palehorse]

Then let's all just agree to execute some people, just because justice demands it.  As an added bonus, they then won't kill anybody else. . .

Very different subject and not germane to the current topic.

Killing people because (in your opinion or any one else's) justice demands it, is indicative of an act or actions perpetrated by said persons that goes directly against the laws of humankind. In order for that to have transpired said person would have to have lived to an age of majority in the eyes of the law and be recognized as such.

Very different. But I would agree worth discussing. Why not start a thread on this?

[Monroe]

Very different subject and not germane to the current topic.

Killing people because (in your opinion or any one else's) justice demands it, is indicative of an act or actions perpetrated by said persons that goes directly against the laws of humankind. In order for that to have transpired said person would have to have lived to an age of majority in the eyes of the law and be recognized as such.

Very different. But I would agree worth discussing. Why not start a thread on this?

Quite the windbag, aren't you Horsey.  And you missed the point.

[Palehorse]

Quite the windbag, aren't you Horsey.  And you missed the point.

Right back at 'char there pinhead. 

I make a courteous suggestion and you reply with tripe and bullshit. Nice. . .

Just so you are clear on my perspective contained within the previous post, to which you responded inappropriately, I'll expand.

"life" as it pertains to the gestation period for human beings is a very subjective term. Proponents for various arguments abound and large amount of support can be found for just about each side of the disagreement.

Some feel human "life" begins at the point of conception.

Still others believe it does not begin until the third trimester, and then there are those, (This writer included), that do not believe that human life begins until the moment that the first breath is taken; that act marking the union of the spirit and the physical being and thus creating human life and its starting point.

Concerning capital punishment and "executing some people because justice demands it" it is an entirely different case altogether. If you are sucking air you are alive. If your brain is ticking you are alive and capable of making cognizant choices for which legal ramifications may be imposed upon you. Pretty straight forward and universally accepted I would think. And when it comes to imposing capital punishment it is also pretty clear that society is choosing to purposely end a human life. Period. The argument about whether it is right or wrong in this case is a pretty clear cut decision to make I would think, at least a lot clearer than in the case of abortion; wherein the determination of when human "life" begins must first be definitively and universally answered before one can expect to make an informed decision upon which side of the argument they land.

These are two very different situations, each requiring a unique approach in order to be able to navigate to an informed decision. In one of them there is no clear answer to the basic question that must be answered before the original question can be satisfied. For the other that question is not an issue.

To believe that one should consistently choose in both cases is unreasonable and, to be quite frank, stupid IMHO.

And just to make things as clear as possible surrounding where I stand on capital punishment; the bottom line is I do not support it simply because our justice system is so skewed as to in fact allow an innocent person to be subjected to it. That is unacceptable to me as a human being and clearly falls short of the moral standards I hold myself and everyone else to.

That does not mean I don't believe there are cases wherein the perpetrator should be taken out and summarily shot, for surely this may very well be the case in some situations. But to offhandedly suggest, even in jest, that human beings should be subjected to such treatment is irresponsible.

When genetic evidence is clearing individuals that have been wrongly convicted of crimes every month, and some of them having spent years on death row before being cleared, it is very obvious to anyone caring to take a moment to think about it that our justice system is broken and innocent lives are being destroyed and ended due to nothing more than a human being's desire to increase their stats or obtain revenge.

Yes, one innocent life is too much and not an acceptable risk.

However, in cases wherein there is indisputable proof backed by scientific evidence it may very well be acceptable to just juice the sob and let them rot. But we are not there yet and the legal standards are not established (clearly) to allow this to take place. 

Some of what I've just posted here may very well be the same things you are saying. But to tell you the truth, given your acidic and sarcastic disposition I am not inclined to go back through this thread and find out.

And if you think this is long, don't get me started. . . Which is exactly why I suggested a separate topic in the first place.

[Monroe]

Foolery, sir, does walk about the orb, like the sun; it shines everywhere.

— William Shakespeare, Twelfth Night

[Palehorse]

To those that would say that a "child is innocent" I would reply; innocence cannot be achieved absent the ability to make a cognizant choice between right or wrong as it relates to the laws of humankind.

[Palehorse]

Foolery, sir, does walk about the orb, like the sun; it shines everywhere.

— William Shakespeare, Twelfth Night

It also reflects in the mirror.

[kimmi]

Amen!  Can we please move on to other subjects now?  This one is as played out as the 80's!