Global Warming

[Henry Hawk]

How selfish of humanity to do so, and how idiotic!

AGAIN, why do you assume that just because we don't buy 100% into this man-made global disaster, that we are not for coming up with better ways to do things?

I'm not ready to ruin economies, just because SOME scientist say it is doom and gloom.
This cap and tax crap is a political ploy, period.
If everyone in the US drove a Yugo and gave up SUV's the world would NOT be any safer than it is now....we need to continue to grow technology to support a better earth...

[Palehorse]

....we need to continue to grow technology to support a better earth...

That I can agree with. I find it strange that there is such resistance to doing so.

[Henry Hawk]

That I can agree with. I find it strange that there is such resistance to doing so.

who, exactly is resisting?
I think EVERYONE, want's to become more effecient, economical, and cleaner....I think it is just the approach on how we get to this is where we differ.

[followsthewolf]

Everyone wants to...........?

Not in many places I've been, either working or visiting.

They only want to do those things if they benefit the bottom line.

No altruistic motives allowed.

[Sandy Eggo]

Exactly! Lip service with no evidence that they actually mean it.  Actions will always speak louder than words.

[Henry Hawk]

Exactly! Lip service with no evidence that they actually mean it.  Actions will always speak louder than words.

and in MY opinion, we need leadership that is going to do this, that is going to make common sense...NOT throw our country into economic ruination, but a plan that will work for everyone....otherwise, there will ALWAYS be a fight.  There IS some commn ground out there, we just need to get to it. 

I am all for spinging the private sector loose at this problem, NOT government.....there has to be some middle ground here.

[Sandy Eggo]

and in MY opinion, we need leadership that is going to do this, that is going to make common sense...NOT throw our country into economic ruination, but a plan that will work for everyone....otherwise, there will ALWAYS be a fight.  There IS some commn ground out there, we just need to get to it. 

I am all for spinging the private sector loose at this problem, NOT government.....there has to be some middle ground here.

How can we get to common ground if everyone is arguing about what is common? and further, how can we get there when everyone is disagreeing based on emotion rather than facts?

[Henry Hawk]

How can we get to common ground if everyone is arguing about what is common? and further, how can we get there when everyone is disagreeing based on emotion rather than facts?

the facts do not PROVE that global warming is strictly caused by man.....

Sandy, you cannot deny, that this whole global warming issue has become a "money maker"...there are many scientist capitalizing off of the fears of whacko enviromentalist....I'm not saying that ALL scientist are corrupt, because they are not....there is corruption regarding this issue on both sides.....

the ONE fact I do know is, that enforcing HIGHER taxes and over regulating many business CAN and WILL cause severe economic hardships....and NOW, is NOT the time to be imposing MORE taxes for something that may or may not even help.

I think it is important that we do have a balance act going on though.....

[Sandy Eggo]

the facts do not PROVE that global warming is strictly caused by man.....

No, they do not, but the do prove that man is increasing the speed and intensity of the issue.

Sandy, you cannot deny, that this whole global warming issue has become a "money maker"...there are many scientist capitalizing off of the fears of whacko enviromentalist....I'm not saying that ALL scientist are corrupt, because they are not....there is corruption regarding this issue on both sides.....

Interesting thing is that there's just as much money, if not more, made by those who could give a fat rat's ass about the health of our earth and they're willing to spend it so that they can continue to rape and pillage.

the ONE fact I do know is, that enforcing HIGHER taxes and over regulating many business CAN and WILL cause severe economic hardships....and NOW, is NOT the time to be imposing MORE taxes for something that may or may not even help.

I think it is important that we do have a balance act going on though.....

Specifically what higher taxes are you referring to? How will holding businesses accountable for their responsibility towards environmental management cause hardships?

[Henry Hawk]

Specifically what higher taxes are you referring to? How will holding businesses accountable for their responsibility towards environmental management cause hardships?

To WHOSE standards are we to go by?...where do you draw the line?...it is not a simple task, and I think business have every right to challange and question.  It cannot be 'shoved' down the throats....we need some real leadership to accomplish this...this is not a slam at anyone, because it is going to be a big role to play...but, imo, THIS is where it is going to start with.

[Sandy Eggo]

To WHOSE standards are we to go by?...where do you draw the line?...it is not a simple task, and I think business have every right to challange and question.  It cannot be 'shoved' down the throats....we need some real leadership to accomplish this...this is not a slam at anyone, because it is going to be a big role to play...but, imo, THIS is where it is going to start with.

I'm sorry, but you're not saying anything. "Challenge and question" what? What can't be "shoved" down throats? What is "real leadership" and how would they "accomplish"...what?

[Henry Hawk]

I'm sorry, but you're not saying anything. "Challenge and question" what? What can't be "shoved" down throats? What is "real leadership" and how would they "accomplish"...what?

Okay, I will slow down for you...

The very business' and people that enviromentalist want to HIT, have every right in the world to HIT back.  Raising the cost to pay for "some" of enviromental "things" will spur inflation, and have a serious impact on economies.....we are already suffering from too much spending, without the means for paying for them....
I say we need leadership to get our economy back into shape, before we go and impose higher prices to pay for things... we need a congress that will find some middle ground that will entice business and people to spend it's money to lessen the enviromental impacts that are being produced.  I think that ALL Americans want to make this a better place, but they do not want a bunch of political hacks forcing it one-sided theories down their throats.
There will always be a fight when Gov act this way....

this is becoming more political than I wanted it too, so, this is my last post on this for now.

but here is a source of info where I have derived some of my logic from....

http://www.heritage.org/research/factsheets/cap-and-trade-is-a-tax-and-its-a-great-big-one

[Palehorse]

Fixing this problem and humankind's contributions toward it requires one thing; change.

Change scares the crap out of the average person and makes them susceptible to emotional propagandists and their tactics. People become desperate when others feed their fears and a desperate individual will believe anything that represents the possibility of preventing the change they fear.

Humankind, and America leads the way in this, consumes fossil burning fuels that pollute the environment and despite very strong evidence that supports this being a key contributor to the current warming trend, industry and the folks who lead it have refused thus far to assume an aggressive attitude toward alternative energy sources and methods; preferring to stay the course and continue business operations as usual in order to solidify profits and growth.

Unleaded fuel (for example) took decades to make mandatory, and that kind of delay is not something this planet can afford at this point in time. As has been pointed out before in this forum, America owns only 2% of the entire amount of oil on the planet, and the more we withdraw the quicker that supply is going to run out. Then what?

What if suddenly the US owns 0% of the oil in the world? What if no one forces industry to identify and implement alternative energy sources before that happens? How much do you think the OPEC cartel will charge us for a barrel of oil then in order to feed our addictions? And how long before we cross the point of "no return" surrounding the negative impact fossil fuels are driving to our planet? 

[Sandy Eggo]

You don't need to slow down, just say something that has some subtance. How are environmentalists "hitting" any business? What costs are you referring to?

For the rest of it, go back to my origional statement. When you have opposing sides who care more about opposing each other, than solving problems, nothing gets accomplished. The current leadership has had to fight tooth and nail for any progress whatsoever because the opposition would rather make points than try.

As for your source, I'll read it when I get in front of a computer.

[Sandy Eggo]

So, how exactly are incentives such as this going to cause businesses to close and why would they need to fight back against it?

The U.S. Congress managed to extend federal tax incentives for environmentally conscious construction until 2013, as part of the Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008, a component of the financial sector rescue bill signed into law on Oct. 3. Given the momentum and strength of the green building movement internationally and nationally, however, tax incentives appear to be simply icing on the cake for green building owners.

Green building was incorporated into the federal tax code with the 2005 act, which created the commercial building tax deduction, allowing tax benefits for owners of energy-efficient commercial buildings who use environmentally sound building practices to achieve certain levels of energy savings.

http://www.areadevelopment.com/AssetManagement/oct08/green-construction-tax-credits-incentives.shtml