I'm sick of all this firearm legislation rancor. This nation needs more than laws that only law abiding citizens will abide by to remediate the violence that is rampant within it. . .
Every. Single. Time. The go to response is to legislate firearm ownership. And it has never worked. . . It never will.
Insanity: responding the same way every time and expecting a different result.
Quote from: Palehorse on February 22, 2018, 11:14:45 AM
I'm sick of all this firearm legislation rancor. This nation needs more than laws that only law abiding citizens will abide by to remediate the violence that is rampant within it. . .
Every. Single. Time. The go to response is to legislate firearm ownership. And it has never worked. . . It never will.
Insanity: responding the same way every time and expecting a different result.
Right on! One issue, I think you and I are lined up on.
It's hard to watch -- by that I mean the parents of the 17 who were killed AND the rallying of their classmates who survived, along with others all over the country. Except to break for local news, that's just about all you see here, all day long.
Although I hesitate to jump in, I will say I don't think teachers should be armed. And maybe this time it was so horrible -- all those children killed by one of their own -- that maybe legislation banning sale of that particular weapon might get through.
Quote from: libby on February 22, 2018, 11:45:41 PM
It's hard to watch -- by that I mean the parents of the 17 who were killed AND the rallying of their classmates who survived, along with others all over the country. Except to break for local news, that's just about all you see here, all day long.
Although I hesitate to jump in, I will say I don't think teachers should be armed. And maybe this time it was so horrible -- all those children killed by one of their own -- that maybe legislation banning sale of that particular weapon might get through.
When I was a school aged human in high school, in suburban Chicago, the school hired armed, off duty police officers that patrolled the hallways every hour of every day. The worst thing that ever happened were beat down between the greasers, freaks, and jocks. And when those resulted in actual arrests and charges that shit stopped. Cold.
AK 47's and Ar15 rifles existed even then, as did Thompson sub machine guns, sawed off shotguns, automatic handguns, etc. All of the parents that were veterans of Nam or WW2 had "souvenirs " that consisted of the weaponry of the enemies in those engagements, and some of them bore the tattoos of the work camps they escaped or were liberated from. None of that stuff found its way into the schools, but for the extremely rare incident that proved the rule. And those exceptions resulted in the hammer being dropped on the offender.
Illegal drugs were rampant during my time there, with the alleyway across the street from the southern entrance to the school being the domicile of the freaks. Pot clouds roared from it every morning. And "dust " LSD, and even smack could be obtained there. Still, no shootings because the cops were ALWAYS there in the school.
The first I ever knew of a "drive by"outside of the school, took place when a friend of mine was hanging out on the stoop of a closed store one evening. The dealer the target owed money to mistook my friend for the doper owing him money and drove by pumping out about 16 shots. One of those shots found my friends head, scattering his brain matter everywhere. I was standing next to him .
They caught the dealer and he went to statesville penitentiary for the rest of his life. I went to my friends funeral.
I had classmates beaten with baseball bats, stabbed, raped, mutilated, and beaten to death with chains; all outside of school over the summers, or other periods when school was out. Never in school.
Fights happened all the time, and I engaged in some of them myself; once plastering my history book into the face of a jackass that had verbally abused a girl I was sweet on during final exams and debates . Then pummeling his ass for good measure. Once he had indicated he'd had enough I walked away. He apologized to her the next day and he never did that to her again. The point being violence will happen without firearms. Adolescent males are chock full of testosterone so it is inevitable. Keeping it manageable just took the presence of the law and the very real possibility of incarceration it inferred.
Life has never been puppies and rainbows and it never will be. But instead of punishing the many for the idiocy of the very few, we should instead enact proactive measures that secure the safety and well being of our children when they are in school. Like my schools did back then.
Some will squeal over the presence of law enforcement within our schools, but it worked back then and will work now if we'd just do it. But we won't. Instead we will continue enacting draconian firearm legislation that only the law abiding citizens of this nation will obey. This cycle is simply a placebo that will lead to the total banning of firearms. And then we will see much Worse.
Metal detectors, armed police patrols, and harsh enforcement of the laws we already have are what is needed. And a court system willing to hand out severe punishment for violations. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on February 23, 2018, 12:51:23 AM
Metal detectors, armed police patrols, and harsh enforcement of the laws we already have are what is needed. And a court system willing to hand out severe punishment for violations. . .
BINGO! :yes:
This is for my friend Palehorse: :spooked: :spooked: :spooked: .... thank you for replying. I will have to read that over and over before I attempt to reply -- except to say that I was born and grew up, as I think you know, in the southern WV mountains, where my father was a coal miner.
I won't even pretend I have an inkling of an answer, but I think we have lost the biggest part of two generations. The first to drugs and the second to irresponsible parenting and drugs. You have all probably seen the Facebook posts about how we old people all had guns and no one ever shot anyone. Well, it is pretty much true. This would have been in the 50s and early 60s. The guys mostly who were lucky enough to have a truck or car would have their long guns in the rack or on the back seat. The really cautious ones put them in the trunk. The guys all had pocket knives they carried in school. The point is someone, a parent probably, taught them right from wrong. I grew up here and no it wasn't all rainbows and roses, people were poor. I knew a boy who lived in the dump, girls with one dress and kids with duct tape holding their shoes together. But they didn't kill people! I went all through school up to college and only saw one fight. Two guys got in a fistfight in the lunchroom. Mr Redding, who was about half their size, grabbed both of them and goose stepped them to the office. I don't know about arming teachers, although I know a few who carry, but armed police officers don't seem like a bad idea. Maybe we should make all schools like the one in Southern Indiana, bulletproof doors,etc.
I think you are right Anne....Parenting, for a large number of kids these days ... .SUCK! This NO SPANKING crap is bullshit. Parents today are too worried about being "friends" with their kids, rather than being a parent. Truth is, be a parent FIRST....the friendship will come, especially as they become adults.
My kids KNOW, I am going to tell them the truth, no mater what. I don't "tickle" their ears and let them do what THEY think is best....it is black & white...right and wrong.
NO wonder we have kids today, not even sure what gender they are because the parents are letting them decide they can be who they want to be....it would be tough having to be raised by a parent, who isn't willing to guide you and direct you....somebody who will be tough when you need it and loving when you need it.
Quote from: Anne on February 24, 2018, 07:51:45 PM
I won't even pretend I have an inkling of an answer, but I think we have lost the biggest part of two generations. The first to drugs and the second to irresponsible parenting and drugs. You have all probably seen the Facebook posts about how we old people all had guns and no one ever shot anyone. Well, it is pretty much true. This would have been in the 50s and early 60s. The guys mostly who were lucky enough to have a truck or car would have their long guns in the rack or on the back seat. The really cautious ones put them in the trunk. The guys all had pocket knives they carried in school. The point is someone, a parent probably, taught them right from wrong. I grew up here and no it wasn't all rainbows and roses, people were poor. I knew a boy who lived in the dump, girls with one dress and kids with duct tape holding their shoes together. But they didn't kill people! I went all through school up to college and only saw one fight. Two guys got in a fistfight in the lunchroom. Mr Redding, who was about half their size, grabbed both of them and goose stepped them to the office. I don't know about arming teachers, although I know a few who carry, but armed police officers don't seem like a bad idea. Maybe we should make all schools like the one in Southern Indiana, bulletproof doors,etc.
Well said, Anne. Only one thing bothered me: the boy who lived in the dump. :(
Quote from: libby on February 26, 2018, 11:43:39 PM
Well said, Anne. Only one thing bothered me: the boy who lived in the dump. :(
There was a landfill along the highway and it had a little shack that a man and his son lived in at the entrance to the landfill. The man collected the fees for using the landfill. The shack was bigger than a guardhouse. For awhile I thought they lived somewhere else and he just caught the bus there. I found out differently, the bus stopped there for most of the school year and then they closed the landfill. They built a shopping center on it.
And once again we see that firearms are not the only means individuals with nefarious intentions use in order to kill and maim human beings.
Austin Texas has been under the thumb of an individual or individuals that are using explosive devices in order to impose death, injury, and terror upon the citizens of that City/state. They set off a fourth device in the last two weeks last night, injuring two males just walking down the street.
Explosive devices are illegal already. They are highly regulated surrounding the manufactured versions. Whatever will our elected officials ban to "eliminate" this threat? :roll eyes: :mad:
Quote from: Palehorse on March 19, 2018, 11:36:39 AM
And once again we see that firearms are not the only means individuals with nefarious intentions use in order to kill and maim human beings.
Austin Texas has been under the thumb of an individual or individuals that are using explosive devices in order to impose death, injury, and terror upon the citizens of that City/state. They set off a fourth device in the last two weeks last night, injuring two males just walking down the street.
Explosive devices are illegal already. They are highly regulated surrounding the manufactured versions. Whatever will our elected officials ban to "eliminate" this threat? :roll eyes: :mad:
That doesn't mean that access to firearms isn't still an issue. (https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/19/us/boy-shot-sister-over-video-game-trnd/index.html)
Quote from: Exterminator on March 19, 2018, 01:54:22 PM
That doesn't mean that access to firearms isn't still an issue. (https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/19/us/boy-shot-sister-over-video-game-trnd/index.html)
Mental health is the root causation for the overwhelming majority of incidents. The "parents" in the case you posted should be held accountable for failing to properly secure their firearm; and both the parents and child are in need of severe mental health treatment. The parents for being ignorant of their responsibilities, and the child for apparently thinking it was acceptable to grab that handgun and kill his sibling over a video game. . .
No different than whomever is running around bombing Austin Texas. Mental illness is rampant in this country, and the political rancor is nurturing it.
And another bomb exploded in a FEDEX facility near San Antonio Texas . . . :eek:
Quote from: Palehorse on March 20, 2018, 12:22:38 AM
Mental health is the root causation for the overwhelming majority of incidents.
So they don't have mentally ill people in other countries?
I am by no means anti-gun but there really is no good reason for the average citizen to own assault style weapons. I've said for a long time that the simple solution is to reclassify them as class 3 with the same ownership requirements as fully automatic weapons and silencers now have. No one's rights are infringed upon and nothing gets banned. Bans don't work anyway. During the last assault rifle ban, I personally legally bought two AR-15's, a slew of high capacity magazines, high end optics, and thousands of rounds of ammunition including tracers, armor piercing, incendiary and every possible combination.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 20, 2018, 11:12:23 AM
So they don't have mentally ill people in other countries?
I am by no means anti-gun but there really is no good reason for the average citizen to own assault style weapons. I've said for a long time that the simple solution is to reclassify them as class 3 with the same ownership requirements as fully automatic weapons and silencers now have. No one's rights are infringed upon and nothing gets banned. Bans don't work anyway. During the last assault rifle ban, I personally legally bought two AR-15's, a slew of high capacity magazines, high end optics, and thousands of rounds of ammunition including tracers, armor piercing, incendiary and every possible combination.
Perhaps they just do a better job of providing treatment to the mentally ill?
I agree, bans do not work as my experience has been similar to yours. I own a number of them myself and intend to keep them.
There was also another school shooting in Maryland this morning. This time a school resource officer (armed) engaged the shooter from what I have been told and read, stopping the shooter.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 20, 2018, 11:18:45 AM
There was also another school shooting in Maryland this morning. This time a school resource officer (armed) engaged the shooter from what I have been told and read, stopping the shooter.
Two injuries, no fatalities except for the shooter. That's the difference between someone using a handgun and someone using an assault rifle.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 20, 2018, 02:42:54 PM
Two injuries, no fatalities except for the shooter. That's the difference between someone using a handgun and someone using an assault rifle.
Perhaps, but it could also have much to do with a school resource officer (armed) engaged the shooter....
FWIW, I think both of you are correct...I think we have to do more to find the mentally challenged before the strike....I think we need to enforce laws we already have....and I think there is nothing wrong with the reclassification of certain guns as a class 3 and have the same ownership requirements as fully automatic weapons. As long as you can prove you are well trained, sane, and don't mind paying for the certification.
Maybe we need a back ground check for bombers. :rolleyes:
They caught the bomber in Austin, however he blew himself up as the police closed in on him. . .