So President Obama issued a directive to schools to allow transgendered students to use the bathroom and locker rooms of the sex they identify with or they risk losing federal funding. Along with that, Target has a new transgender bathroom policy.
I have heard and read so many people having a problem with this. Do they really think they have never shared a bathroom with a transgendered person before? Then you have the people that think that men are just going to show up in the women's room and rape and abduct women and children. Really! If some guy wanted to do that, do you really think he would wait until Target made the announcement of their bathroom policy?
Quote from: AbbyTC on May 16, 2016, 12:26:52 AM
So President Obama issued a directive to schools to allow transgendered students to use the bathroom and locker rooms of the sex they identify with or they risk losing federal funding. Along with that, Target has a new transgender bathroom policy.
I have heard and read so many people having a problem with this. Do they really think they have never shared a bathroom with a transgendered person before? Then you have the people that think that men are just going to show up in the women's room and rape and abduct women and children. Really! If some guy wanted to do that, do you really think he would wait until Target made the announcement of their bathroom policy?
Agree. It would be the same as saying as I am not going to let a gay person serve or wait on me and they probably have.
My opinion is, this WASN'T a big deal, until the POTUS decided to issue a directive (or THREATEN) to the States....
I'm really sorry that we may possible "upset" less than .03% of the population, who has an issue with this....the bottom line is, that if you have a penis. YOU are without an argument by Science, a MALE. If you have a Vagina, if is a FACT that you ARE A FEMALE.
No am not overly concerned that rape is going to skyrocket if we make some changes.......but I am concerned about the the other 99.3% of the population has a enormous amount of people who ARE uncomfortable that a person can present their "junk" in the girls locker room. What about these people? Do they not have any rights? Despite what you say or think, there WILL be some dudes in college or high school, who will SAY they are a woman, just to get in the girls locker room...There are some many MORE important fish to fry than this....
I blame the WH for making this a bigger issue than it should be.
and it is NOT the same a gay person serving someone.....not even close.
Aren't you guys the ones who insist we must accept science? like global warming? Then why isn't science good enough for this?
More GOP lawmakers have been arrested for sexual misconduct in public restrooms than transgender people.
Yes, it is the same if you have a person who is homophobic against gays and thinks they will get AIDS just by a touch. No, I don't get into global warming. Never have, to me it is just the change in the seasons. People can call it whatever they want but I figure winter is cold, summer is hot, spring is between and fall is also. If that is global warming than so be it.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 16, 2016, 09:08:50 AM
More GOP lawmakers have been arrested for sexual misconduct in public restrooms than transgender people.
What does that have to do with allowing the opposite sex into locker rooms? If a man wants to dress up in women's clothes, Fine. None of my business....But he shouldn't be allowed to display his junk in front of women, what about THEIR feelings?....
I can't believe we are even having this dialogue........it is the stupidest damn thing. It wasn't even much of an issue, until Obama threatens States to immediately accommodate these folks or else. THAT is what bothers me.
Leave it to the States to decide if they want to spend money in every school or public place to accommodate....not a federal mandate.
All this controversy over the transgender bathroom thing makes me wonder what is going on that we are being distracted from by something that should actually be a non issue. If transgenders were actually always going into the bathroom of choice then there is no problem except schools should be left out of it and to threaten to withhold funds is bullying any way you put it. He should not demand anything like that, that's what a dictator does.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 16, 2016, 10:33:16 AM
What does that have to do with allowing the opposite sex into locker rooms?
Irony.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 16, 2016, 08:42:12 AM
I'm really sorry that we may possible "upset" less than .03% of the population, who has an issue with this....the bottom line is, that if you have a penis. YOU are without an argument by Science, a MALE. If you have a Vagina, if is a FACT that you ARE A FEMALE.
HH, are you saying that if you have a penis you use the men's room and if you have a vagina you use the women's room? What about the people who are transitioning? You really want a woman (who is transitioning from a man) to go into the men's room when she looks completely like a woman because she still has a dick?
We have a few transgender patrons at the library. One is clearly transitioning from man to woman and I would never expect her to use the men's room.
Quote from: AbbyTC on May 16, 2016, 02:05:33 PM
HH, are you saying that if you have a penis you use the men's room and if you have a vagina you use the women's room? What about the people who are transitioning? You really want a woman (who is transitioning from a man) to go into the men's room when she looks completely like a woman because she still has a dick?
We have a few transgender patrons at the library. One is clearly transitioning from man to woman and I would never expect her to use the men's room.
So because, less than .03% of the population is "Transgender"....we MUST accommodate them...
I am more concerned about a little girl, who sees a man dressed like a woman walk into a restroom, with his dick hanging out...what kind of trauma would that be for a small child?
and since this whole Pandora's box has been opened, there WILL be some perverts that WILL take advantage of this, and they WILL molest a child, when this happens, and it WILL, who will be the blame then? Will Target be willing to have their ass sued when this happens?
As I said before, this wasn't even an issue, until the POTUS spouted off and declared all schools to do the "right thing" or lose federal aid.
Why don't we just have ONE restroom for every one? Forget the Men or Womens? Are you good with that?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 16, 2016, 02:43:51 PM
So because, less than .03% of the population is "Transgender"....we MUST accommodate them...
I am more concerned about a little girl, who sees a man dressed like a woman walk into a restroom, with his dick hanging out...what kind of trauma would that be for a small child?
and since this whole Pandora's box has been opened, there WILL be some perverts that WILL take advantage of this, and they WILL molest a child, when this happens, and it WILL, who will be the blame then? Will Target be willing to have their ass sued when this happens?
As I said before, this wasn't even an issue, until the POTUS spouted off and declared all schools to do the "right thing" or lose federal aid.
Why don't we just have ONE restroom for every one? Forget the Men or Womens? Are you good with that?
I would hope the man would go into a stall. Funny, that everyone is all up in arms over this but the chances of a child being molested by a complete stranger is very low. I would venture that 9 out of 10 victims of molestation know their abuser and within those odds, they are often family members.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on May 16, 2016, 03:01:26 PM
I would hope the man would go into a stall. Funny, that everyone is all up in arms over this but the chances of a child being molested by a complete stranger is very low. I would venture that 9 out of 10 victims of molestation know their abuser and within those odds, they are often family members.
Probably true....but, you can't tell me that this won't encourage perverts to claim they are a woman, JUST so they can go into a womans restroom.........this whole thing is ridicules.
I say we must keep it simple.....if your packing, it is the mens room, if you aren't, its the womens.
If you don't know what you are........then be discreet about it...if a man is dressed like a woman, then he can quietly go into a stall....nobody knows any better.
I think this very small group who are complaining are raising a stink over this so THEY can be accommodated and to hell with the vast majority.....it just fails common sense.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 16, 2016, 03:33:15 PM
Probably true....but, you can't tell me that this won't encourage perverts to claim they are a woman, JUST so they can go into a womans restroom.........this whole thing is ridicules.
I say we must keep it simple.....if your packing, it is the mens room, if you aren't, its the womens.
If you don't know what you are........then be discreet about it...if a man is dressed like a woman, then he can quietly go into a stall....nobody knows any better.
I think this very small group who are complaining are raising a stink over this so THEY can be accommodated and to hell with the vast majority.....it just fails common sense.
I am not saying it won't encourage perverts but I think most will be discreet.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on May 16, 2016, 04:05:04 PM
I am not saying it won't encourage perverts but I think most will be discreet.
I think this risk is being WAY over played by the right-wing noise machine.
Quote from: Locutus on May 16, 2016, 04:19:43 PM
I think this risk is being WAY over played by the right-wing noise machine.
I agree it is over played...
I think we wouldn't be talking about it at all, if the left-wing (obama) hadn't made it a FEDERAL issue...THAT is wrong.
One thing that really isn't being said by anyone on this whole issue is this. If a predator wants to follow a child into a restroom for the purposes of molestation, it won't matter how they're dressed. They'll just walk right in and molest them. Pure, flat out, and simple.
Quote from: Locutus on May 16, 2016, 04:19:43 PM
I think this risk is being WAY over played by the right-wing noise machine.
I agree. There are more issues to deal with than this
Quote from: Locutus on May 16, 2016, 04:50:34 PM
One thing that really isn't being said by anyone on this whole issue is this. If a predator wants to follow a child into a restroom for the purposes of molestation, it won't matter how they're dressed. They'll just walk right in and molest them. Pure, flat out, and simple.
I agree on that and the simple fact is that most kids molested are molested by family members or someone they know. Stats have even shown that.
Quote from: Locutus on May 16, 2016, 04:50:34 PM
One thing that really isn't being said by anyone on this whole issue is this. If a predator wants to follow a child into a restroom for the purposes of molestation, it won't matter how they're dressed. They'll just walk right in and molest them. Pure, flat out, and simple.
The molestation part isn't the BIG deal...as you said, those creeps will do it anyway....the real issue is the threat by the POTUS to comply or else....despite the potential harm it will cause to many innocent folks.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 16, 2016, 05:02:26 PM
The molestation part isn't the BIG deal...as you said, those creeps will do it anyway....the real issue is the threat by the POTUS to comply or else....despite the potential harm it will cause to many innocent folks.
Aren't you talking out of both sides of your mouth here? You said "the molestation part isn't the big deal," yet you say at the end, "despite the potential harm it will cause to many innocent folks." The only potential harm I've heard coming from the aforementioned right-wing noise machine is rape and molestation.
Quote from: Locutus on May 16, 2016, 04:50:34 PM
One thing that really isn't being said by anyone on this whole issue is this. If a predator wants to follow a child into a restroom for the purposes of molestation, it won't matter how they're dressed. They'll just walk right in and molest them. Pure, flat out, and simple.
I tend to agree. Having said that, in my opinion there is a simple answer we could start with:
All women's restrooms have stalls, so everybody has privacy. Why not get busy ripping out all those things men pee in and put stalls in, just like the women have?
As for children, responsible parents already take their little boys and girls into whatever restroom they as adults use.
I can understand how awkward it would be to walk into a restroom behind or in front of a big man headed the same way. But when you're desperate ....
As for the transgenders, they could just walk in and use any stall available.
Quote from: libby on May 16, 2016, 05:17:15 PM
I tend to agree. Having said that, in my opinion there is a simple answer we could start with:
All women's restrooms have stalls, so everybody has privacy. Why not get busy ripping out all those things men pee in and put stalls in, just like the women have?
As for children, responsible parents already take their little boys and girls into whatever restroom they as adults use.
I can understand how awkward it would be to walk into a restroom behind or in front of a big man headed the same way. But when you're desperate ....
As for the transgenders, they could just walk in and use any stall available.
Agree
It's just a bunch of cry babies :cry: :cry: :cry: making something out of nothing. :poke: :wait:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 16, 2016, 05:02:26 PM
...the real issue is the threat by the POTUS to comply or else...
Upholding anti-discrimination laws is the federal government's job.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 17, 2016, 08:41:23 AM
Upholding anti-discrimination laws is the federal government's job.
Ok, I get your point, I really do.........I want to discuss, WHY is it, that a group of people, can decide, arbitrarily that they "want" to be a man or a woman, despite what Mother Nature has already determined? So, then they have declared themselves a "special" bred, that MUST be protected by the courts. What if someone, decides that they are Chinese or American Indian? It seems to me that is the same rationale of thinking.
This is the part that has me more complex and that our potus is so quick to protect, and extreme measures.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 17, 2016, 09:01:45 AM
Ok, I get your point, I really do.........I want to discuss, WHY is it, that a group of people, can decide, arbitrarily that they "want" to be a man or a woman, despite what Mother Nature has already determined? So, then they have declared themselves a "special" bred, that MUST be protected by the courts. What if someone, decides that they are Chinese or American Indian? It seems to me that is the same rationale of thinking.
This is the part that has me more complex and that our potus is so quick to protect, and extreme measures.
What about those who are born with both sets of gentalia. It does happen and many parents let the child decide when they are old enough to make a decision.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on May 17, 2016, 09:51:27 AM
What about those who are born with both sets of gentalia. It does happen and many parents let the child decide when they are old enough to make a decision.
According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/hemophilia/data.html), about 400 babies are born with hemophilia each year.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 17, 2016, 10:28:45 AM
According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/hemophilia/data.html), about 400 babies are born with hemophilia each year.
Uh, hate to say this HH but that's a blood disorder not what you were intending to put up, that would be hermaphrodite.
I think this might be what you intended to post HH. .
http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 17, 2016, 10:28:45 AM
According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/hemophilia/data.html), about 400 babies are born with hemophilia each year.
WHOOPS! :-[
Quote from: me on May 17, 2016, 11:08:01 AM
I think this might be what you intended to post HH. .
http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency
Thanks ME...I did read this one.
Quote from: me on May 17, 2016, 11:04:48 AM
Uh, hate to say this HH but that's a blood disorder not what you were intending to put up, that would be hermaphrodite.
LMAO! :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 17, 2016, 09:01:45 AM
I want to discuss, WHY is it, that a group of people, can decide, arbitrarily that they "want" to be a man or a woman, despite what Mother Nature has already determined?
No one decides he/she wants to be a member of the opposite sex any more than someone decides to be an alcoholic or to have cancer. This is what you folks can't seem to grasp.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 17, 2016, 11:59:48 AM
No one decides he/she wants to be a member of the opposite sex any more than someone decides to be an alcoholic or to have cancer. This is what you folks can't seem to grasp.
But they are opening the doors for people to do so........we live in a society where people will take advantage of anything and everything. Just like our disability and food stamp program. Many folks do need it, and I think it is great that we have it, but so many abuse it.
The bottom line for me on this whole transgender issue is that, life will go on, despite the outcome. I think we have much bigger fist to fry than this issue. I have aired out my thoughts on it. I'm on to the next.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 17, 2016, 11:57:08 AM
LMAO! :biggrin:
:-[ I got in a bit of a hurry...oops.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 17, 2016, 11:59:48 AM
This is what you folks can't seem to grasp.
Despite it being pointed out over, and over, and over, and over.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 17, 2016, 10:28:45 AM
According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/hemophilia/data.html), about 400 babies are born with hemophilia each year.
Quote from: me on May 17, 2016, 11:04:48 AM
Uh, hate to say this HH but that's a blood disorder not what you were intending to put up, that would be hermaphrodite.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 17, 2016, 12:57:31 PM
:-[ I got in a bit of a hurry...oops.
Slow down, Henry! :laugh:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 17, 2016, 11:59:48 AM
No one decides he/she wants to be a member of the opposite sex any more than someone decides to be an alcoholic or to have cancer. This is what you folks can't seem to grasp.
Why is that so difficult to understand? Geesh.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 17, 2016, 11:09:08 AM
WHOOPS! :-[
:haha: :haha: :haha: That's our Bird Boy. :chick: :haha: :tomahit:
My problem is this includes locker rooms which aren't private so how would you feel about your son or daughter being in a shower and locker room naked with the opposite sex just because they identified as being different? Don't tell me there are 14 to 18 yr old boys who wouldn't fake it just to take in the view. Yes, there would be girls too but I'm thinkin' not as many. If you can't see what this opens up I feel sorry for you. Oh ya, and are Obama's kids going to have to do this? Hell no, they go to private schools which this doesn't affect. WAKE THE F**K UP PEOPLE!!!!!
I was wondering if anyone would bring up locker rooms. It is a little different situation unless locker rooms have changed since I was in one. Anyone have any possible solutions for the situation me describes?
Quote from: Anne on May 17, 2016, 08:45:59 PM
I was wondering if anyone would bring up locker rooms. It is a little different situation unless locker rooms have changed since I was in one. Anyone have any possible solutions for the situation me describes?
Well, my kids are in school and the locker rooms at there school most go into the bathroom and changes in a stall. The showers are also just like small bathroom but I can't say how it is in other schools. I don't know it would be at a gym where adults work out. My gym has a locker room and it is not that big of a deal but most people come in their workout clothes and just use the locker room to put stuff in the lockers. If they have to dress out or change they go into the bathroom and do so in a stall.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on May 17, 2016, 09:03:01 PM
Well, my kids are in school and the locker rooms at there school most go into the bathroom and changes in a stall. The showers are also just like small bathroom but I can't say how it is in other schools. I don't know it would be at a gym where adults work out. My gym has a locker room and it is not that big of a deal but most people come in their workout clothes and just use the locker room to put stuff in the lockers. If they have to dress out or change they go into the bathroom and do so in a stall.
What about showering though? Most schools I've been in have several shower heads in one big room. Even the situation you describe seems like it would take too much time out of class time for everyone to get changed since some would have to wait on a stall if they chose to do it that way.
Quote from: me on May 17, 2016, 11:02:37 PM
What about showering though? Most schools I've been in have several shower heads in one big room. Even the situation you describe seems like it would take too much time out of class time for everyone to get changed since some would have to wait on a stall if they chose to do it that way.
A lot of kids already come dressed out for phys Ed.and they don't have to worry about changing. I can just about guarantee the chances of any of them taking a shower after a phys Ed class is slim. Not sure why but kids don't do it. Didn't do it when I was in school and they don't do it now.
Ya'll are making a mountain out of a molehill and thinking the worst. Again, I think there are bigger issues than bathrooms and who is in them.
The national debt is out of control, issues with terrorism and such.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on May 17, 2016, 11:44:58 PM
A lot of kids already come dressed out for phys Ed.and they don't have to worry about changing. I can just about guarantee the chances of any of them taking a shower after a phys Ed class is slim. Not sure why but kids don't do it. Didn't do it when I was in school and they don't do it now.
Ya'll are making a mountain out of a molehill and thinking the worst. Again, I think there are bigger issues than bathrooms and who is in them.
The national debt is out of control, issues with terrorism and such.
Well, I guess gym today is a little different than it was when I went to school. We actually did things that used energy and that street clothes would have not acceptable for like soft ball and things of that nature. Kids in your day and today probably didn't/don't do things to work up a sweat so there wasn't/isn't a need for taking a shower.
Quote from: me on May 18, 2016, 08:50:29 AM
Well, I guess gym today is a little different than it was when I went to school. We actually did things that used energy and that street clothes would have not acceptable for like soft ball and things of that nature. Kids in your day and today probably didn't/don't do things to work up a sweat so there wasn't/isn't a need for taking a shower.
I worked up a sweat when i took gym but we didn't have much time to grab a shower. and so do kids these days in gym but you will find most aren't going to change clothes. They come already in shorts and sweats. They don't want to change in front of their friends. My son carries deodorant with him and uses it but they just don't want to shower or use the showers in the gym. The complaint I hear is the water is ice cold. They also don't have a lot time to take a shower because they have 3 minutes to get to classes in my son's school.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on May 18, 2016, 08:57:29 AM
I worked up a sweat when i took gym but we didn't have much time to grab a shower. and so do kids these days in gym but you will find most aren't going to change clothes. They come already in shorts and sweats. They don't want to change in front of their friends. My son carries deodorant with him and uses it but they just don't want to shower or use the showers in the gym. The complaint I hear is the water is ice cold. They also don't have a lot time to take a shower because they have 3 minutes to get to classes in my son's school.
Well we did have 5 min between classes so I guess that makes a lot of difference plus the teacher planned the class time to include shower time. 10min, which was plenty of time to wash off and get dressed.
Quote from: me on May 18, 2016, 09:09:50 AM
Well we did have 5 min between classes so I guess that makes a lot of difference plus the teacher planned the class time to include shower time. 10min, which was plenty of time to wash off and get dressed.
His teacher didn't, they are so wrapped into getting everything done these days that they don't take in consideration shower time and 30 kids, you give them each 3 minutes and there goes the whole class period.
When I was in school and when my kids were in high school, showering after gym was mandatory, part of your grade. Teacher watched when you went into the shower room and checked your name off. Heaven help you if your feet weren't wet when you came out.
Quote from: Anne on May 18, 2016, 10:37:51 AM
When I was in school and when my kids were in high school, showering after gym was mandatory, part of your grade. Teacher watched when you went into the shower room and checked your name off. Heaven help you if your feet weren't wet when you came out.
Lol, we had a gym teacher from hell. I had gym the last period of the day so I didn't have to worry about showering because I was staying after for practice of some sport. Lol.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on May 18, 2016, 09:27:51 AM
His teacher didn't, they are so wrapped into getting everything done these days that they don't take in consideration shower time and 30 kids, you give them each 3 minutes and there goes the whole class period.
What school only has one shower for all the kids in the locker room? Any I've ever seen have been one big shower room with several shower heads so at least 10 to 15 students could shower at one time. Like Ann, showering was mandetory when I went to school and it was also when my kids went to school, youngest graduated in "82". At any rate the boys and girls don't need to be mixing it up in that situation.
Quote from: me on May 18, 2016, 01:03:44 PM
What school only has one shower for all the kids in the locker room? Any I've ever seen have been one big shower room with several shower heads so at least 10 to 15 students could shower at one time. Like Ann, showering was mandetory when I went to school and it was also when my kids went to school, youngest graduated in "82". At any rate the boys and girls don't need to be mixing it up in that situation.
I didn't say one shower but there are 3 showers and still with 30-35 kids to a class and with 3 minutes to do it, there isn't enough class time. Kids today don't want to shower with others around them and are very self conscious about it. More kids are bullied by body appearances I suspect than any other way. I don't have stats on that but years of working with kids and how cruel kids can be.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on May 18, 2016, 01:25:39 PM
I didn't say one shower but there are 3 showers and still with 30-35 kids to a class and with 3 minutes to do it, there isn't enough class time. Kids today don't want to shower with others around them and are very self conscious about it. More kids are bullied by body appearances I suspect than any other way. I don't have stats on that but years of working with kids and how cruel kids can be.
That's always gone on and why I think it is a bad idea to mix the sexes. Sounds like poor planning on the schools part to me to only have 3 showers available. Even way back when we had at least 15 shower heads in the room and a class of 33 and we managed to get in and out fairly quickly.
Quote from: me on May 18, 2016, 06:40:29 PM
That's always gone on and why I think it is a bad idea to mix the sexes. Sounds like poor planning on the schools part to me to only have 3 showers available. Even way back when we had at least 15 shower heads in the room and a class of 33 and we managed to get in and out fairly quickly.
It is a brand new school. State of the art so not poor planning. Like I said 3 minutes with 30 kids isn't enough time, it wouldn't be if there were 5 showers, 6 showers or 7. They would just add more and more kids to already over crowded gym classes. Kids don't want to take showers with other kids around, didn't when you were in school, when I was in school and they don't know. It has nothing to do with mixing people up.
We didn't have to shower after gym class, just like we didn't shower after recess. I think the kids :five: :yes: were dirtier and more sweaty after recess than gym. :sweatdrop: :bounce: We showered when we got home.
Quote from: The Troll on May 18, 2016, 10:57:09 PM
We didn't have to shower after gym class, just like we didn't shower after recess. I think the kids :five: :yes: were dirtier and more sweaty after recess than gym. :sweatdrop: :bounce: We showered when we got home.
Recess is in elementary school and you don't normally get the pit out thing going at that age like when you get into middle and high school so, no, there wasn't a reason to shower after recess. :rolleyes:
There is a lot of this I totally disagree with. It opens a huge can of worms when it comes to college and overnight class trips even in high school.
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201605-title-ix-transgender.pdf