(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/Unknown_zpsfvbv04lc.png) (http://s475.photobucket.com/user/hlovett_2008/media/Unknown_zpsfvbv04lc.png.html)
What does this symbol mean to you? Do you find it acceptable, and would you support an individual flying it from a flag pole?
No. Of course not. While there may be some within civilization that would do so, the clear inference in their doing so would be a message of hate and racial discrimination within society today. In fact, a lot of human beings died over what this flag represented; and a lot of them Americans.
But. . .consider this:
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/images_zpsvlu4l1tm.jpeg) (http://s475.photobucket.com/user/hlovett_2008/media/images_zpsvlu4l1tm.jpeg.html)
Yes, that is indeed the same symbol flying beneath the American flag. In fact, that symbol prior to Nazi Germany and Adolph Hitler was widely thought to bring good fortune. In fact to this day it holds religious meaning within a number of religions. But you do not see those religions using it for the very same reason most of us would not fly a flag bearing that symbol; its historical connection with messages of hate and racial discrimination.
Now; take a look at this one:
(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr111/hlovett_2008/images_zpsnqlcmyz5.png) (http://s475.photobucket.com/user/hlovett_2008/media/images_zpsnqlcmyz5.png.html)
This flag too holds historical implications surrounding hate and racial discrimination, and like the Nazi flag, a large number of Americans died to ensure that the separatist views and implications of hatred and discrimination would be put under. . . And yet. . . here we are in 2015 debating whether this flag should be flown from state-houses and public institutions?
I've seen the "heritage" claims, and I agree; those that fly "Old Dixie" are recognizing their heritage of Hate and Racial Discrimination.
I see no difference between the Nazi flag and Old Dixie. . . Same message, same history. . .
Gee and look who it was designed by.
Quote1. The Confederate battle flag was never the official flag of the Confederacy.
The Confederate States of America went through three different flags during the Civil War, but the battle flag wasn't one of them. Instead, the flag that most people associate with the Confederacy was the battle flag of Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia.
Designed by the Confederate politician William Porcher Miles, the flag was rejected for use as the Confederacy's official emblem, although it was incorporated into the two later flags as a canton. It only came to be the flag most prominently associated with the Confederacy after the South lost the war.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/8-things-didnt-know-confederate-flag/
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000707
And just for good measure.
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477
Now tell me again how dems aren't racist.
Although I don't believe for one second it represents racism to everyone that particular meaning seems to be the one that stuck with some people and they are using it to stir the pot at this point. I've seen blacks wear it on their clothing and have it in the rear windows of their vehicles.
First of all, I 100% agree with Palehorse's analogy....spot on! :yes:
I support the folks in SC for the removal of that flag from all gov buildings and property.
But, I think all of these issues such as the flag and gun control is all being pushed for political reasons.......that bottom line is that this kid is screwed up. It is an isolated incident by a random punk. There is no racial issue in South Carolina that should alarm folks that this type of incident is likely to happen again. Making more laws to control guns will not keep another incident like this from happening again.
I think we live in a country where such incidents CAN and WILL happen, no matter WHAT laws are put in place.
I do think it is time that we as a country recognize that the confederate flag should not be something we should be proud of as a nation. We had a war and people died over it.
If Bubba and his family want to fly it on there own property, that is their right. Because we also had people go to war and die over protecting that right to do so.
We don't have to like it. And I don't.
I heard a legislator on TV say "It's not just a symbol of hate. It's actually a symbol of pride in one's hatred."
I tend to agree....
I also want to say that ME brings up an great argument about who and where "politically", southern racism rests. Southern Democrats still have plenty of racial hatred floating around.
Quote from: me on June 23, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
Gee and look who it was designed by. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/8-things-didnt-know-confederate-flag/
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000707
And just for good measure.
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477
Now tell me again how dems aren't racist.
Although I don't believe for one second it represents racism to everyone that particular meaning seems to be the one that stuck with some people and they are using it to stir the pot at this point. I've seen blacks wear it on their clothing and have it in the rear windows of their vehicles.
WTF? That flag, "the battle flag" was proudly flown by Robert E. Lee at each of his engagements DURING the war.
Your red herring surrounding it not being the "official" flag of the confederacy was anticipated by this poster, since I saw what you posted (quoted) well before I created this topic. It's bullshit as far as I am concerned.
The only people who do NOT consider that battle flag to be just as much a symbol of hate and racial discrimination as the Nazi Flag, are those who harbor such. They just do not have the balls to say so or to sport their white sheets in public. But I recognize them by that flag, (in part).
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 24, 2015, 08:10:26 AM
. . .
If Bubba and his family want to fly it on there own property, that is their right. Because we also had people go to war and die over protecting that right to do so.
We don't have to like it. And I don't.
. . .
I have a personal example of just how that flag is perceived by others.
Several years ago, I used to go on long weekend trips with my cousin and a group of his coworkers to Cave Run Lake in Kentucky. There would be 30+ guys on these trips most times, and everyone that owned a boat brought it. Home base was always a huge houseboat that we pooled our money to rent for our time there, and we'd always tie it up in a deserted cove area off the main lake and out of the way of everyone. (30+ men eating, drinking, and fishing could make for some rather boisterous times, and good ones.)
We had been doing this for a number of years, and on the trip I am referring to here, we had a group of 4 new guys among us. We had all followed the houseboat as it made its way to our usual home base destination, and we were, as usual, a flotilla to see.
Once we had the houseboat securely moored inside of our cove, some of us began fishing for some fresh crappie for lunch and sat some distance away from home base out near the mouth of the cove. And as we were catching our lunch, I looked over to see two of the new guys tying "Old Dixie" onto one the support poles on the upper deck of the boat. "Man, that is nothing but a magnet for trouble", I said to my cousin. He agreed, and once we had the live well filled, we went back to the houseboat to fillet our catch and throw them into the pot for the "resident cook" to fry up in the deep fryer we always brought along on deck.
Once a large number of us were safely aboard, I brought up the subject of the flag to everyone. "Man, we probably should not be flying that thing. It's a magnet for law enforcement." I stated to everyone. My cousin agreed, but the general consensus was that my Yankee ass just didn't understand what it stands for.. . I reiterated my concerns and told them that I didn't want to hear it when law enforcement came rolling up.
Several of them poo-pooed my concerns, and I told my cousin that it was no skin off my back. They were the ones who had things to hide, not me.
We had a great evening that rolled well into the wee hours, and the adult beverages and left handed cigarettes were enjoyed by many there. My cousin and I had secured two over-sized lounging chairs on the upper deck as our sleeping berth and we retired to the upper deck well after midnight. A good time was had by all, but around 0630 I heard the distinct sound of twin outboard engines slowly idling into the cove. In fact it sounded like at least two. So I roused myself to see who it was, and sure enough, Ranger Rick and the KY State Police were navigating straight toward us.
I just put my head back down and heard my cousin ask, "Who is it?"
The law, I said. Two watercraft and one of them has K9. They're going to board us. . . He giggled, and about 30 seconds later the loudspeaker announced that law enforcement had arrived and were boarding our watercraft. They wanted identification, watercraft registrations, and licenses out and ready to present to the officers.
A full search and inspection then took place, and the dog alerted at three different locations within which contraband was discovered within the personal property of 5 different individuals aboard the houseboat. They were arrested for possession. 7 or 8 others were issued citations for violations of the states watercraft codes, and 1 was cited for failing to have a fishing license in addition to his water crafts deficiencies.
My cousin and I had nothing to hide, and my boat was 100% in compliance, as always. We spent all but about 15 minutes of the 1.5 hours law enforcement was there, on the upper deck; where we had an excellent view of the proceedings.
As the officers began preparing to take their prisoners away, one of the more "vocal" of the members not under arrest asked them, "Why the hell did you guys choose to pick on us?"
He replied, " See that flag? That is an open invitation as far as we're concerned. Boats that fly that flag are easy picking for us. They always have skinheads, dopers, and criminal aboard them. If I were you guys, I'd take that down. A new shift comes on this afternoon.
I reached over and cut the tape holding it to the post of the awning.
And after they were out of sight, I took it below, threw it onto the table and said, "Yeah. I'm just a dumb yankee eh?"
That flag NEVER flew aboard ever again. Not even once.
Personally, I think there is a whole lot more wrong with the world than a 150 year old piece of fabric.
Children are hungry, there is poverty, income inequality and human trafficking.
...racism.
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11403342_10153520746379835_148610158699624984_n.jpg?oh=ba98d6f849ec4e7dcefebbf6bfccbf01&oe=56214FAF)
Quote from: me on June 23, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
Gee and look who it was designed by. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/8-things-didnt-know-confederate-flag/
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000707
And just for good measure.
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477
Now tell me again how dems aren't racist.
Repeatedly posting the same links to articles describing how the country was 100 years ago when you were born does not speak to how it is today. Maybe you should stop living in the past?
Ya know, I'm already sick of this whole flag thing. It is for some reason nothing more than a diversion of an incident that had NOTHING TO DO WITH A FLAG. There were some folks in Indy yesterday who burned a confederate flag. ENOUGH ALREADY!
Quote from: Exterminator on June 25, 2015, 08:01:00 AM
Repeatedly posting the same links to articles describing how the country was 100 years ago when you were born does not speak to how it is today. Maybe you should stop living in the past?
You're ignoring the part that was intended to point out.
Gee and look who it was designed by.http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/8-things-didnt-know-confederate-flag/
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000707
And just for good measure.
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477
Now tell me again how dems aren't racist.
Quote from: me on June 25, 2015, 08:51:53 AM
You're ignoring the part that was intended to point out.
Ancient. History.
Can we put the confederate flag on toilet paper. :biggrin: On each and every sheet of it. :idea2: :yeah:
Okay, just to prove my point that liberals are merely demagoguing the Charleston shooting for political points are NOW calling for "Gone with the Wind" to be chastised.
Really...don't get me wrong, I never liked the movie....it is too long and boring, but it is STILL a classic film that won eight academy awards.....what is next? The American Flag?
Quote from: Exterminator on June 25, 2015, 09:01:57 AM
Ancient. History.
Not that ancient...
(http://nation.foxnews.com/sites/nation.foxnews.com/files/styles/style592x333/public/ClintonGore062315.jpg)
(https://stream.org/wp-content/uploads/Hillary_Clinton_confederate_flag_button.jpg)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxNjAw/z/FIkAAMXQWzNSljM8/$_57.JPG)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 25, 2015, 12:40:31 PM
Okay, just to prove my point that liberals are merely demagoguing the Charleston shooting for political points are NOW calling for "Gone with the Wind" to be chastised.
Really...don't get me wrong, I never liked the movie....it is too long and boring, but it is STILL a classic film that won eight academy awards.....what is next? The American Flag?
You sure you don't listen to right wing radio and TV shows?
~~~~~~~
The debate over the Confederate battle flag in South Carolina and elsewhere is not really about the banner itself, Rush Limbaugh says. And it won't stop there, the radio host said during his show on Tuesday.
One day, he said, what is happening to the rebel flag will come to pass for the American flag, too.http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/rush-limbaugh-confederate-flag-american-flag-119359.html
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 25, 2015, 12:43:37 PM
Not that ancient...
(http://nation.foxnews.com/sites/nation.foxnews.com/files/styles/style592x333/public/ClintonGore062315.jpg)
PROBABLY FALSEAccording to a longtime aide to former President Bill Clinton, the button was not an official campaign item.
"I've never seen these buttons," Craig Smith [said]. "Don't have them, haven't seen them."
Smith oversaw state operations for Mr. Clinton's campaign in 1992, before moving on to work in the Clinton White House. Among his responsibilities on the trail was allocating staff to states and sending out campaign materials, like house party kits, t-shirts, yard signs and buttons, nationwide. Every item, he said, had to be made in the United States by union workers.
"If it didn't have a union bug, we weren't making them," he said, "and we definitely weren't handing them out."
The button in question, and others featuring similar designs for sale or sold on eBay, does not show any indication of being union-made.
Smith said he thought the buttons were likely made by someone unaffiliated with the campaign looking to make a buck. He said if it had been pitched to him, it wouldn't have gotten past his desk.
"Not appropriate then," he said, "and not appropriate now."
http://m.snopes.com/clinton-gore-92-confederate/
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Nope! Just reading headline news....saw this one about Gone with the Wind...reading about burning Confederate Flags......it is NOT about a nutjob in Charleston, it is about an attack on Guns, Racism and Republican...
They don't miss a beat do they? :no:
Quote from: Locutus on June 25, 2015, 12:51:05 PM
PROBABLY FALSE
Like he ever lets facts get in the way of perpetuating a lie. :rolleyes:
PROBABLY false? :confused: :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 25, 2015, 12:55:40 PM
PROBABLY false? :confused: :rolleyes:
If you would bother to click the link and read what it says there, you can see that it was NEVER an official campaign item, if it even existed at all.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 25, 2015, 12:43:37 PM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxNjAw/z/FIkAAMXQWzNSljM8/$_57.JPG)
^^ That's not an official campaign item either. :rolleyes:
It was created by the founder of a grassroots organization called "Rednecks for Obama" right here in Florida. :rolleyes:
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/floridas-rednecks-for-obama-flag-combines-hope-poster-with-confederate-flag-6525572
I read it, and it said PROBABLY false, based on a Clinton Campaign manager......he wouldn't LIE would he? :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 25, 2015, 12:55:01 PM
Like he ever lets facts get in the way of perpetuating a lie. :rolleyes:
He's full of them today. :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 25, 2015, 01:04:58 PM
I read it, and it said PROBABLY false, based on a Clinton Campaign manager......he wouldn't LIE would he? :icon_twisted:
You must have missed this part:
It's important to note that there is no indicator that these buttons were actually made and distributed by the actual Clinton-Gore campaign.
One indicator that it isn't official is that it lacks a union "bug," the little marker showing that a piece of campaign material was printed in a union shop. If you look at other Clinton-Gore buttons, nearly all — but not all — have a bug somewhere.
So REDNECKS or not racists if they vote democrat? That is exactly the hypocrisy I am talking about.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 25, 2015, 01:07:01 PM
So REDNECKS or not racists if they vote democrat? That is exactly the hypocrisy I am talking about.
Nobody, especially me, said anything like that. Having been around rednecks more than a few times, I can assure you that the majority of them certainly
are racists regardless of their political affiliation.
Quote from: Locutus on June 25, 2015, 01:08:37 PM
Nobody, especially me, said anything like that. Having been around rednecks more than a few times, I can assure you that the majority of them certainly are racists regardless of their political affiliation.
It was a quote from YOUR link....
The Obama campaign refused to comment on the mixture of the images, but does say it welcomes the self-proclaimed rednecks support.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 25, 2015, 01:28:19 PM
It was a quote from YOUR link....
The Obama campaign refused to comment on the mixture of the images, but does say it welcomes the self-proclaimed rednecks support.
Where does it say anything about racism there? The guy who developed the banner said this:
"We're rednecks, but we're not racists."
Quote from: Locutus on June 25, 2015, 01:33:01 PM
Where does it say anything about racism there? The guy who developed the banner said this:
"We're rednecks, but we're not racists."
Okay...follow me now...THAT is WHY I said, it must be okay that "REDNECKS or not racists if they vote democrat"..... Had a republican redneck say they were not racist, you wouldn't believe him for a second.
Hence my comment about hypocrisy...that is HUGE right now, over this whole debacle.
I don't necessarily believe that guy either for what it's worth.
----V
Quote from: Locutus on June 25, 2015, 01:08:37 PM
Nobody, especially me, said anything like that. Having been around rednecks more than a few times, I can assure you that the majority of them certainly are racists regardless of their political affiliation.
Actually, you yourself may be considered a redneck. :razz:
Historian Patrick Huber, an expert on Southern U.S. culture, describes the term "redneck" as a "slur" referring to "a poor white man of the American South, and particularly one who holds conservative, reactionary or racist views." Ken Bagwell, a writer for the Asheville Tribune says that "rednecks" are "white, and the vast majority of them are working class (blue-collar). Some are college degreed, some are not." Even the dictionary has very little flattering to say. Merriam-Webster defines "redneck" as "a white person who lives in a small town or in the country especially in the southern U.S., who typically has a working-class job, and who is seen by others as being uneducated and having opinions and attitudes that are offensive."
:rotfl:
http://classroom.synonym.com/origin-word-redneck-11667.html
Quote from: Locutus on June 25, 2015, 02:34:08 PM
Actually, you yourself may be considered a redneck. :razz:
May be? :biggrin:
;D
The whole point about this is that this nation needs to put to rest, once and for all, the scourge of its history.
The whole "confederacy" thing, its symbology and history, has been treated as code for the continuation of racism and has been acceptable within the nodd and a wink portion of our civilization for far too long now.
It should be something we, as a nation, should be ashamed of; but instead we've accommodated it for well over a century and become blinded to it.
All of this straw man methodology is being used to somehow justify the continuation of something just as bad as what took place in Nazi Germany.
The saddest thing about it is it is not the only genocide committed in a frenzy of hatred and racism, in the name of this country!
There is still the fact that a democrat designed it and the party adopted it, check the links I posted. In spite of what ya'll chose to believe there are liberal racists they just try to baffle with B S and talk their way around it. The accuser is almost always the doer and that happens to be so in this case. We have a true divide and conquer thing going on and those of you who call yourselves "critical thinkers" don't even see it.
Quote from: me on June 25, 2015, 05:32:00 PM
There is still the fact that a democrat designed it and the party adopted it, check the links I posted. In spite of what ya'll chose to believe there are liberal racists they just try to baffle with B S and talk their way around it. The accuser is almost always the doer and that happens to be so in this case. We have a true divide and conquer thing going on and those of you who call yourselves "critical thinkers" don't even see it.
1. Show me where I inferred or stated this was a political issue with one side holding more blame than another. I did not. YOU are the one that made this a indictment of political parties. Not me.
2. We're talking about a battle flag created to identify those within the theatre of operations that held the position supporting the continuation of enslavement of human beings and a culture of hatred; and it's shameful legacy and the resultant sullying of this nation over 150 years later.
3. You want to talk hypocrisy, there is plenty of it to go around in this country. And I don't give a flying fuck what political party you want to talk about. They all shoulder the weight of this shameful burden and have since its inception. Including each and every one of us. If you aren't a part of the solution then you are the problem.
4. Your attempt to cloud the issue with political rancor is shameful.
That fucking flag is the equivalent of flying the Nazi Flag in my view. It represents one thing and one thing only; hatred rooted in racism. It has never flown or been worn in any fashion by this poster, and it never will be. (Nor was it ever displayed, owned, or possessed by my parents; both of whom hailed from the south).
Each and every individual I have known that has owned it, flown it, worn it, or displayed it via any means, harbored racist viewpoints. Some covertly and some very publicly. And some also wore the Nazi symbols via tattoos of them upon their bodies. None of these individuals are a part of my life, and their time within it was greatly abbreviated.
Anyone trying to validate the continued display of the battle flag in question here, is endorsing hatred and racial discrimination; whether they do so lucidly or not.
I do not care what political party they swear allegiance to. It was wrong, is wrong, and always will be wrong.
I could have been posting about anyone on this forum or in general so why did you take what I said personal. There are those who act like "all" conservatives and "only" conservatives are racist and you know it. If that has never been an accusation you have made or even thought you should have known I was not talking about you personally.
Quote from: Palehorse on June 25, 2015, 06:05:40 PM
1. Show me where I inferred or stated this was a political issue with one side holding more blame than another. I did not. YOU are the one that made this a indictment of political parties. Not me.
2. We're talking about a battle flag created to identify those within the theatre of operations that held the position supporting the continuation of enslavement of human beings and a culture of hatred; and it's shameful legacy and the resultant sullying of this nation over 150 years later.
3. You want to talk hypocrisy, there is plenty of it to go around in this country. And I don't give a flying fuck what political party you want to talk about. They all shoulder the weight of this shameful burden and have since its inception. Including each and every one of us. If you aren't a part of the solution then you are the problem.
4. Your attempt to cloud the issue with political rancor is shameful.
That fucking flag is the equivalent of flying the Nazi Flag in my view. It represents one thing and one thing only; hatred rooted in racism. It has never flown or been worn in any fashion by this poster, and it never will be. (Nor was it ever displayed, owned, or possessed by my parents; both of whom hailed from the south).
Each and every individual I have known that has owned it, flown it, worn it, or displayed it via any means, harbored racist viewpoints. Some covertly and some very publicly. And some also wore the Nazi symbols via tattoos of them upon their bodies. None of these individuals are a part of my life, and their time within it was greatly abbreviated.
Anyone trying to validate the continued display of the battle flag in question here, is endorsing hatred and racial discrimination; whether they do so lucidly or not.
I do not care what political party they swear allegiance to. It was wrong, is wrong, and always will be wrong.
Quote from: me on June 25, 2015, 07:41:38 PM
I could have been posting about anyone on this forum or in general so why did you take what I said personal. There are those who act like "all" conservatives and "only" conservatives are racist and you know it. If that has never been an accusation you have made or even thought you should have known I was not talking about you personally.
My topic. . . and your response followed mine immediately; both at the opening and on the current page.
It is for this exact reason, use of the "quote" feature is highly advised.
Quote from: me on June 25, 2015, 07:41:38 PM
There are those who act like "all" conservatives and "only" conservatives are racist and you know it.
If you are directing that at anyone on this forum, you'd be wrong. I'll guarantee you nobody here takes that position at all.
Quote from: me on June 23, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
Gee and look who it was designed by. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/8-things-didnt-know-confederate-flag/
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000707
And just for good measure.
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477
Now tell me again how dems aren't racist.
Although I don't believe for one second it represents racism to everyone that particular meaning seems to be the one that stuck with some people and they are using it to stir the pot at this point. I've seen blacks wear it on their clothing and have it in the rear windows of their vehicles.
At the point you posted the above, (the first posting following the opening one I made to start it), you attempted to make this subject about political indictments. Use of the quoting feature here would have been moot, since it could serve only one of two possible purposes:
- Creating a straw man argument in order to obscure the obviously correct position of the initial posting.
- Purposeful baiting of other membership as a means to take the topic off into the deep weeds and bury the original statements.
So exactly which was your intended purpose. There was no one else to have been responding to at that point. . . :roll eyes:
That was followed by a number of postings by members, some of which you attempted to respond to at first, and then a larger number of back and forth between them; which elicited this response from me:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 25, 2015, 05:17:14 PM
The whole point about this is that this nation needs to put to rest, once and for all, the scourge of its history.
The whole "confederacy" thing, its symbology and history, has been treated as code for the continuation of racism and has been acceptable within the nodd and a wink portion of our civilization for far too long now.
It should be something we, as a nation, should be ashamed of; but instead we've accommodated it for well over a century and become blinded to it.
All of this straw man methodology is being used to somehow justify the continuation of something just as bad as what took place in Nazi Germany.
The saddest thing about it is it is not the only genocide committed in a frenzy of hatred and racism, in the name of this country!
15 minutes later you posted this:
Quote from: me on June 25, 2015, 05:32:00 PM
There is still the fact that a democrat designed it and the party adopted it, check the links I posted. In spite of what ya'll chose to believe there are liberal racists they just try to baffle with B S and talk their way around it. The accuser is almost always the doer and that happens to be so in this case. We have a true divide and conquer thing going on and those of you who call yourselves "critical thinkers" don't even see it.
No quotation, so the assumption for 99% of the readers here would have been reasonable in thinking it was in response to the post right above it; mine.
Now, personally I tend to believe your response to this post by me: (In response directly to your quoted post above)
Quote from: Palehorse on June 25, 2015, 06:05:40 PM
1. Show me where I inferred or stated this was a political issue with one side holding more blame than another. I did not. YOU are the one that made this a indictment of political parties. Not me.
2. We're talking about a battle flag created to identify those within the theatre of operations that held the position supporting the continuation of enslavement of human beings and a culture of hatred; and it's shameful legacy and the resultant sullying of this nation over 150 years later.
3. You want to talk hypocrisy, there is plenty of it to go around in this country. And I don't give a flying fuck what political party you want to talk about. They all shoulder the weight of this shameful burden and have since its inception. Including each and every one of us. If you aren't a part of the solution then you are the problem.
4. Your attempt to cloud the issue with political rancor is shameful.
That fucking flag is the equivalent of flying the Nazi Flag in my view. It represents one thing and one thing only; hatred rooted in racism. It has never flown or been worn in any fashion by this poster, and it never will be. (Nor was it ever displayed, owned, or possessed by my parents; both of whom hailed from the south).
Each and every individual I have known that has owned it, flown it, worn it, or displayed it via any means, harbored racist viewpoints. Some covertly and some very publicly. And some also wore the Nazi symbols via tattoos of them upon their bodies. None of these individuals are a part of my life, and their time within it was greatly abbreviated.
Anyone trying to validate the continued display of the battle flag in question here, is endorsing hatred and racial discrimination; whether they do so lucidly or not.
I do not care what political party they swear allegiance to. It was wrong, is wrong, and always will be wrong.
. . .Is nothing more than your signature attempt at feigning innocence over a purposeful and targeted response, however off topic or out in the deep weeds it is, as a means to pull cat litter over that great big steaming turd you created. :yes:
And I maintain that my response remains proper and correct.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 25, 2015, 12:40:31 PM
Okay, just to prove my point that liberals are merely demagoguing the Charleston shooting for political points are NOW calling for "Gone with the Wind" to be chastised.
Really...don't get me wrong, I never liked the movie....it is too long and boring, but it is STILL a classic film that won eight academy awards.....what is next? The American Flag?
Not only that they are up in arms over Dukes Of Hazard now too.
Oh for cryin' out loud. Now they're bitchin' about Uncle Ben's rice and Aunt Jemima syrup. How ridiculous. Oh, and here's more http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/racially-insensitive-article-1.2270225 :rolleyes:
Quote from: Palehorse on June 25, 2015, 06:05:40 PM
1. Show me where I inferred or stated this was a political issue with one side holding more blame than another. I did not. YOU are the one that made this a indictment of political parties. Not me.
The two forum clowns do that with virtually every subject here because they're good little Fox News minions.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 26, 2015, 07:33:16 AM
The two forum clowns do that with virtually every subject here because they're good little Fox News minions.
Yup!
Quote from: me on June 25, 2015, 05:32:00 PM
There is still the fact that a democrat designed it and the party adopted it, check the links I posted. In spite of what ya'll chose to believe there are liberal racists they just try to baffle with B S and talk their way around it. The accuser is almost always the doer and that happens to be so in this case. We have a true divide and conquer thing going on and those of you who call yourselves "critical thinkers" don't even see it.
At least the "critical thinkers" are thinking.
Who gives a $hit about who designed the flag? What does that matter in the current scheme of things? The point is that it has become a symbol of hatred and racism.
Who designed the swastika? It was used for thousands of years as a symbol of good luck and is a sacred symbol in Hinduism. Would you fly it in your front yard?
Quote from: me on June 23, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
I've seen blacks wear it on their clothing and have it in the rear windows of their vehicles.
I call BS!
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on June 24, 2015, 08:25:20 PM
Personally, I think there is a whole lot more wrong with the world than a 150 year old piece of fabric.
Children are hungry, there is poverty, income inequality and human trafficking.
My argument exactly concerning the American flag - it's nothing but a piece of fabric.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 25, 2015, 12:40:31 PM
Okay, just to prove my point that liberals are merely demagoguing the Charleston shooting for political points are NOW calling for "Gone with the Wind" to be chastised.
Really...don't get me wrong, I never liked the movie....it is too long and boring, but it is STILL a classic film that won eight academy awards.....what is next? The American Flag?
Regurgitating Breitbart et al, I see. :rolleyes:
You should have gone to the original source and actually read the author's premise:
http://nypost.com/2015/06/24/gone-with-the-wind-should-go-the-way-of-the-confederate-flag/
If the Confederate flag is finally going to be consigned to museums as an ugly symbol of racism, what about the beloved film offering the most iconic glimpse of that flag in American culture?Now tell us again how you do your research, think for yourself, and really aren't an idiot and mouthpiece for the RW noize machine.
Quote from: me on June 25, 2015, 05:32:00 PM
There is still the fact that a democrat designed it and the party adopted it, check the links I posted...
You know, that spiel just shows your ignorance of history.
The Southern Democrats of the Reconstruction are not the Democrats of today. The Republicans of the Civil War and Reconstruction are not the Republicans of today. The parties effectively switched positions on race in the 1950s - 1960s, especially in the South.
With the advent of the Cold War and the rise of Republicans as conservatives/reactionaries with the influx of McCarthyism and John Birch Society ideology the Republican party took racism to its bosom. That's not even to mention the influence of the Klan on the Republican party starting in the early 1900s.
Quote from: Y on June 30, 2015, 09:43:33 PM
You know, that spiel just shows your ignorance of history.
The Southern Democrats of the Reconstruction are not the Democrats of today. The Republicans of the Civil War and Reconstruction are not the Republicans of today. The parties effectively switched positions on race in the 1950s - 1960s, especially in the South.
With the advent of the Cold War and the rise of Republicans as conservatives/reactionaries with the influx of McCarthyism and John Birch Society ideology the Republican party took racism to its bosom. That's not even to mention the influence of the Klan on the Republican party starting in the early 1900s.
What a crock of B S.
Quote from: me on June 30, 2015, 11:44:21 PM
What a crock of B S.
Now you're anti-history along with being anti-science and anti-literacy?
http://www.senatormccarthy.com/
Quote from: me on July 01, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
http://www.senatormccarthy.com/
Holy Cow!
I suppose next you'll post a link to a website showing that Hitler was really a saint!
Quote from: Bo D on July 01, 2015, 11:03:39 AM
I suppose next you'll post a link to a website showing that Hitler was really a saint!
Absolutely clueless but it's understandable why people like her would like him as they are guilty of the same types of tactics: "The term McCarthyism, coined in 1950 in reference to McCarthy's practices, was soon applied to similar anti-communist activities. Today the term is used more generally in reference to
demagogic, reckless, and unsubstantiated accusations, as well as public attacks on the character or patriotism of political opponents."
QuoteMcCarthy's enemies also followed his activities with a strong interest. Determined to stop McCarthy from spreading the truth about their communist agenda, many anti-American Hollywood insiders found willing accomplices in the budding liberal media. These propaganda-mongers added a new word to the dictionary, defining "McCarthyism" as a senseless political witch hunt. In fact, McCarthy had exposed scores of known communists in the capital without a single known false accusation. Joseph McCarthy's critics were never interested in the truth however.
QuoteThe VENONA Project files, declassified in 1995, provided indisputable evidence that nearly all of those McCarthy accused were traitors to America. Not surprisingly, the media ignored these documents completely, instead choosing to run yet another round of anti-McCarthy propaganda. As if that wasn't enough, in 2005 Hollywood released the greatest propaganda film since "Triumph of the Will", an anti-McCarthy slander picture known as "Good Night and Good Luck". Dead for fifty years, McCarthy's body has now been tarred, feathered, crucified, cremated, and his ashes shot into space by a leftist media who cannot handle the truth of their own miserable existence. The anti-McCarthy media claims the Senator wrongly implicated many. Despite their accusations, no critic has ever brought forth a single documented case of someone being wrongly accused by McCarthy.
As is typical for you, you are getting all of your information from a single source whose agenda is to pretend McCarthy wasn't an idiot. You might want to dig a little deeper before making yourself look more ignorant than you already have.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 01, 2015, 11:49:38 AM
making yourself look more ignorant than you already have.
That would be a difficult task! :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Y on June 30, 2015, 09:43:33 PM
You know, that spiel just shows your ignorance of history.
The Southern Democrats of the Reconstruction are not the Democrats of today. The Republicans of the Civil War and Reconstruction are not the Republicans of today. The parties effectively switched positions on race in the 1950s - 1960s, especially in the South.
With the advent of the Cold War and the rise of Republicans as conservatives/reactionaries with the influx of McCarthyism and John Birch Society ideology the Republican party took racism to its bosom. That's not even to mention the influence of the Klan on the Republican party starting in the early 1900s.
Y is exactly right on this. Had a History professor in college who even said this almost exact same thing that Y posted about the Dems and Republicans from the Civil War.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 01, 2015, 11:49:38 AM
As is typical for you, you are getting all of your information from a single source whose agenda is to pretend McCarthy wasn't an idiot. You might want to dig a little deeper before making yourself look more ignorant than you already have.
And you got your info from a source that made him sound that way. What's the difference? You believe one I believe the other. It's only our opinions based on our choice of sources which is all we have since few people are left from back then to ask and even then it would depend on who you asked what their view of things was.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on July 01, 2015, 12:09:54 PM
Y is exactly right on this. Had a History professor in college who even said this almost exact same thing that Y posted about the Dems and Republicans from the Civil War.
If it was a liberal college and a liberal prof, yes, that's what he would say.
Quote from: me on July 01, 2015, 04:19:19 PM
If it was a liberal college and a liberal prof, yes, that's what he would say.
Jeezus! Are you really that dense or just trolling?
I have a feeling that she will never reach the bottom.
Quote from: me on July 01, 2015, 04:19:19 PM
If it was a liberal college and a liberal prof, yes, that's what he would say.
You have to be beyond ignorant! It doesn't matter whether it was a liberal arts college or a major university which I have attended both and had several History professors state the same thing as Y posted but you wouldn't know what any professor has stated!
Do you even have a clue what liberal arts means? It means that all students regardless of what major they choose should have a solid grounding in all liberal arts subjects in addition to their major. It doesn't mean that the person is a liberal! SMH!
Quote from: Locutus on July 01, 2015, 04:39:57 PM
Jeezus! Are you really that dense or just trolling?
I pick dense when she seems to think that just because it is a liberal arts college that one must be liberal. I wonder if they go to a fine arts if that means they are fine in that art?
Quote from: me on July 01, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
http://www.senatormccarthy.com/
:spooked: Have you completely lost your mind?
http://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/joseph-mccarthy (http://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/joseph-mccarthy)
http://www.coldwar.org/articles/50s/senatorjosephmccarthy.asp (http://www.coldwar.org/articles/50s/senatorjosephmccarthy.asp)
http://www.britannica.com/biography/Joseph-McCarthy (http://www.britannica.com/biography/Joseph-McCarthy)
http://www.biography.com/people/joseph-mccarthy-9390801 (http://www.biography.com/people/joseph-mccarthy-9390801)
McCarthy's rights trampling rampage is well documented and led to his censure. He spent the balance of his time afterwards drinking himself to death; which came in the form of severe hepatitis. . .
In fact, just taking this stroll down memory lane convinced me of something though. Ted Cruz is McCarthy all over again! :spooked:
You picked your references, I picked mine so we each have an opinion of what went on based on what we chose to believe. Yes, his tactics were wrong and those I do not agree with but he was right about most. I am done trying to discuss with people who are supposedly educated who can only name call and put down others with differing opinions. That is juvenile to say the least and I got out of grade school a long time ago and grew out of that.
Quote from: me on July 02, 2015, 07:35:05 AM
You picked your references, I picked mine ...
You picked ONE! Can you find any hint in that? Where is the consensus?
Wow! :rolleyes:
There isn't anything more sexy that an old pickup truck with a rifle in the back window. :wink: :biggrin: Loaded with a bunch of hillbillies flying a big rebel flag of stars and bars. :haha: :rotfl: :music1: :guitarist: :music1: :boohoo: :music1:
Quote from: The Troll on July 02, 2015, 11:50:26 AM
There isn't anything more sexy that an old pickup truck with a rifle in the back window. :wink: :biggrin: Loaded with a bunch of hillbillies flying a big rebel flag of stars and bars. :haha: :rotfl: :music1: :guitarist: :music1: :boohoo: :music1:
Back in my early days when I played in a rock band, we got a gig in Savannah, GA. I was still living in the mountains of southwestern Virginia at the time, so we loaded up our hippie vans with all our gear and headed south. At that time Easy Rider was a hit movie and the ending was fresh on my mind as we drove through rural South Carolina. Everywhere we saw old pickups with gun racks in the back window. Man, we were a bunch of scared hippies!
Quote from: Bo D on July 02, 2015, 12:03:22 PM
Back in my early days when I played in a rock band, we got a gig in Savannah, GA. I was still living in the mountains of southwestern Virginia at the time, so we loaded up our hippie vans with all our gear and headed south. At that time Easy Rider was a hit movie and the ending was fresh on my mind as we drove through rural South Carolina. Everywhere we saw old pickups with gun racks in the back window. Man, we were a bunch of scared hippies!
Say? Did any of those places you played at have chicken wire in front of the band so the crowd couldn't hit you with beer bottles. :smile: :toothless:
Quote from: The Troll on July 05, 2015, 03:48:31 PM
Say? Did any of those places you played at have chicken wire in front of the band so the crowd couldn't hit you with beer bottles. :smile: :toothless:
As a matter of fact, yes! We played in a few places like that. The one I remember most ... back when I was in high school, we played at a place in Squire, WV called Russell's club. Plus they had sawdust on the floor to absorb the chewing tobacco spit.
Huh, my dad would never let his girls go to a place like that, but he did drive us to church in the back of his red pick-up truck. We even had benches, one on each side of the cab, to sit on. :smile:
Quote from: Bo D on July 06, 2015, 08:24:55 AM
As a matter of fact, yes! We played in a few places like that. The one I remember most ... back when I was in high school, we played at a place in Squire, WV called Russell's club. Plus they had sawdust on the floor to absorb the chewing tobacco spit.
I don't know whether you were lucky or not to have played a place straight out of the Blues Brothers, but in all my years playing in some real dives around the country, I never had the pleasure.
Of course, I never played in 'By Gawd West Virginny!' either. :biggrin:
Quote from: libby on July 06, 2015, 05:33:14 PM
Huh, my dad would never let his girls go to a place like that, but he did drive us to church in the back of his red pick-up truck. We even had benches, one on each side of the cab, to sit on. :smile:
Did he have a gun in the back window and did he fly the Rebel Flag? :wink: :smile:
Quote from: The Troll on July 06, 2015, 08:13:25 PM
Did he have a gun in the back window and did he fly the Rebel Flag? :wink: :smile:
Daddy always had a shotgun, but never displayed it in his truck -- except maybe when he went deer hunting in Pocahontas County in the fall. And I don't ever remember seeing that flag in southern West Virginia, where we lived.
Quote from: libby on July 06, 2015, 11:41:55 PM
Daddy always had a shotgun, but never displayed it in his truck -- except maybe when he went deer hunting in Pocahontas County in the fall. And I don't ever remember seeing that flag in southern West Virginia, where we lived.
Growing up, boys that I went to school with which school was in the city would have guns on a gun rack but I don't recall any one ever having a Confederate flag. It one did, we probably attempted to avoid them!
I realize this is satire but it's getting almost this ridiculous with the pc crowd.
http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/national/is-cracker-barrel-racist-satirical-petition-suggests-it-is
Quote from: me on July 11, 2015, 11:31:25 AM
I realize this is satire but it's getting almost this ridiculous with the pc crowd.
http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/national/is-cracker-barrel-racist-satirical-petition-suggests-it-is
We prefer to be called saltine-Americans. :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 13, 2015, 07:54:21 AM
We prefer to be called saltine-Americans. :biggrin:
:biggrin:
Quote from: Bo D on July 06, 2015, 08:24:55 AM
As a matter of fact, yes! We played in a few places like that. The one I remember most ... back when I was in high school, we played at a place in Squire, WV called Russell's club. Plus they had sawdust on the floor to absorb the chewing tobacco spit.
Heck Bo D that was in your backyard was it not? :biggrin:
Best regards,
Duke (neighbors) Jupiter
Quote from: duke jupiter on July 13, 2015, 08:26:31 PM
Heck Bo D that was in your backyard was it not? :biggrin:
Best regards,
Duke (neighbors) Jupiter
Yep. Practically was. Just down in to Horsepen, take a right at Bishop and you're there. :biggrin:
Ole' Bo D had to be a heck of a man to play at that neck of the woods!! ;)
Best regards,
Duke (play that geetar Bo D) Jupiter
Quote from: duke jupiter on July 14, 2015, 07:37:20 PM
Ole' Bo D had to be a heck of a man to play at that neck of the woods!! ;)
Best regards,
Duke (play that geetar Bo D) Jupiter
It wasn't too bad down there. I was only about 17 at the time. Them coal miners looked mean, but they was just hard-workin', hard-playin' men. They kinda took our little band under their wings and we played down there many times. Never saw any trouble. Good times!
Quote from: Bo D on July 14, 2015, 07:43:29 PM
It wasn't too bad down there. I was only about 17 at the time. Them coal miners looked mean, but they was just hard-workin', hard-playin' men. They kinda took our little band under their wings and we played down there many times. Never saw any trouble. Good times!
Ole Duke worked at the Olga mines for a few years in the late 70's and early 80's and those fellers were a tough lot but they sure looked after a very young and green behind the gills Duke Jupiter. Good memories for Ole' Duke, heck I miss the
camaraderie and relationships.
Best regards,
Duke (coal miners take care of their own, most of 'em worked hard and played hard) Jupiter