I say kill all of the Muslim killer cancer cells which ISIS is. :smash: :dead: For if we don't these individual cells will be metastasising somewhere else in the world. :hanged: :behead: :rifle:
I guess we'll find out the plan tonight at 9PM.
Quote from: Locutus on September 10, 2014, 03:04:41 PM
I guess we'll find out the plan tonight at 9PM.
Or not.
Quote from: Locutus on September 10, 2014, 04:25:28 PM
Cynic, or worse.
She sure has a black racist heart O0 for Obama, not one good word ever. :rant:
Quote from: Locutus on September 10, 2014, 04:25:28 PM
Cynic, or worse.
Nope just being realistic. All he ever does is say he has a plan without telling what it is and blame someone else for whatever is, or has, gone wrong.
Quote from: me on September 10, 2014, 05:24:27 PM
...blame someone else for whatever is, or has, gone wrong.
You're describing yourself.
Quote from: me on September 10, 2014, 05:24:27 PM
Nope just being realistic. All he ever does is say he has a plan without telling what it is and blame someone else for whatever is, or has, gone wrong.
Nope Sun Flower, you're just a Republican Teaparty Hater. :angry: Your boy the cowboy :cowboy: George W. started all of these wars over there :yes: You are just a red neck HATER. :thubb: :busted:
Your REALLY are just a Troll, aren't you. :yes:
I don't suppose we could have an intelligent conversation about how this ISIS problem is one largely of our own making.
Quote from: Locutus on September 11, 2014, 02:30:22 PM
I don't suppose we could have an intelligent conversation about how this ISIS problem is one largely of our own making.
Just to start it off, I think we could begin with Jimmy Carter for failing to support the Shah of Iran back in the late 70's that allowed the Ayatollah Khomeini to build up this radical islamic revolution that we have ever since faced.
The advance announcement and early withdrawal of our troops contributed greatly to the ISIS problem.
Quote from: me on September 11, 2014, 03:10:35 PM
The advance announcement and early withdrawal of our troops contributed greatly to the ISIS problem.
I know you didn't construct that sentence on your own. What is your source for the opinion that was fed to you?
Quote from: Bo D on September 11, 2014, 03:14:10 PM
I know you didn't construct that sentence on your own. What is your source for the opinion that was fed to you?
Let alone she probably can't tell you which administration originally signed off on the withdrawal to begin with.
Quote from: me on September 11, 2014, 03:10:35 PM
The advance announcement and early withdrawal of our troops contributed greatly to the ISIS problem.
And no it didn't.
Listen, especially around the 3 min mark, as to why Bush wouldn't withdraw and why Obama shouldn't have. Now tell me again how the announcement of and early withdrawal didn't contribute to ISIS.
https://www.youtube.com/v/84ukJlcpqEY
You're still forgetting who signed the withdrawal of troops agreement, and signed it after that little 'insightful' speech you cite above. Here's a clue. It wasn't Obama, despite the fact that you would like to lay blame at his feet. :rolleyes:
Man that blame others for this administrations mistakes sure runs rampant. Who announced it to the world to gain political points and bring attention to themselves that they had fulfilled another promise?
Quote from: me on September 11, 2014, 07:45:42 PM
Man that blame others for this administrations mistakes sure runs rampant. Who announced it to the world to gain political points and bring attention to themselves that they had fulfilled another promise?
I guess you're entitled to your misinformed opinions facts be damned.
Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement)
From that article:
"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1] "
I digress though. That really wasn't the point in my comment regarding ISIS being a problem largely of our own making.
Then what are you saying here? In what way are we as Americans at fault for making ISIS a problem? What do you think will make the ISIS problem go away?
Quote from: me on September 11, 2014, 07:45:42 PM
Man that blame others for this administrations mistakes sure runs rampant.
Are you blind and deaf?
First of all you try to "blame" this administration by inferring that it was Obama who committed to the early withdrawal...
Quote from: me on September 11, 2014, 03:10:35 PM
The advance announcement and early withdrawal of our troops contributed greatly to the ISIS problem.
When it was CLEARLY (as Locutus deftly pointed out) George W. Bush himself that announced, committed to and signed the agreement in 2008 for the early withdrawal.
That isn't blaming anyone but the guilty party.
Next .....
Quote from: Bo D on September 12, 2014, 08:58:27 AM
Are you blind and deaf?
First of all you try to "blame" this administration by inferring that it was Obama who committed to the early withdrawal...
When it was CLEARLY (as Locutus deftly pointed out) George W. Bush himself that announced, committed to and signed the agreement in 2008 for the early withdrawal.
That isn't blaming anyone but the guilty party.
Next .....
It does highlight, however, how completely uninformed conservatives are in general. I see them posting all over Facebook about how Obama shouldn't have withdrawn the troops when the information is out there and easily accessible.
Quote from: me on September 11, 2014, 09:12:37 PM
Then what are you saying here? In what way are we as Americans at fault for making ISIS a problem?
We destabilized the entire middle east with our unnecessary war against Iraq. As unattractive as Saddam was (after he was attractive) as a leader, he kept the various factions in check. As much as we'd like to believe otherwise, sometimes with savages, a tyrant is needed to maintain order.
Quote from: Exterminator on September 12, 2014, 09:41:12 AM
We destabilized the entire middle east with our unnecessary war against Iraq. As unattractive as Saddam was (after he was attractive) as a leader, he kept the various factions in check. As much as we'd like to believe otherwise, sometimes with savages, a tyrant is needed to maintain order.
You mean tyrants like Bashar al-Assad?
Now be fair and listen all the way through......
https://www.youtube.com/v/xf8wp_MTxF8
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 12, 2014, 09:50:27 AM
You mean tyrants like Bashar al-Assad?
I mean tyrants like any number of despots around the world, many of whom we seem perfectly ok with so long as they serve the big money interests who control our political system.
Quote from: me on September 12, 2014, 11:37:33 AM
Now be fair and listen all the way through......
We've all seen your cutesy little neocon cobbled together video. :rolleyes:
Quote from: me on September 12, 2014, 11:37:33 AM
Now be fair and listen all the way through......
https://www.youtube.com/v/xf8wp_MTxF8
Please quit trying to defer attention from your lie. In the context of this conversation, it doesn't matter who took credit for ending the war. The fact is you blamed the the current administration for the current ISIS situation when you posted "The advance announcement and early withdrawal of our troops contributed greatly to the ISIS problem."
And now you are trying to cover your lie yet again.
Yes, maybe Bush did sign a paper saying it was going to be done but Obama announced "WHEN" it was going to be done and said there would be no boots on the ground. He was more than willing to take credit but when it came time he, as well as some liberals, are wanting to place all the blame on Bush once again for things going wrong.
Listen to what Bush said in his speech again, if you even listened in the first place, and again it starts about the 3 min mark.
https://www.youtube.com/v/84ukJlcpqEY
Quote from: me on September 12, 2014, 01:07:06 PM
Yes, maybe Bush did sign a paper saying it was going to be done but Obama announced "WHEN" it was going to be done and said there would be no boots on the ground.
Honestly! Can you read? Is that why you keep posting videos?
Maybe I should print this out with crayons and pictures ....
The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement was signed by
President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.Are there too many big words in that?
So not only is the information available but we've actually made it easy by providing it right here and she still doesn't get it. What next, she'll be telling all of us we'd better wake up?
Quote from: Bo D on September 12, 2014, 01:43:23 PM
Honestly! Can you read? Is that why you keep posting videos?
Maybe I should print this out with crayons and pictures ....
The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement was signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.
Are there too many big words in that?
But WHO took credit for it? Who bragged about how he was going to bring home our troops? Obama made it a political issue to get credit for it, THEN when things go south, he remembers it was "Bush's fault" :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 12, 2014, 02:00:46 PM
But WHO took credit for it? Who bragged about how he was going to bring home our troops? Obama made it a political issue to get credit for it, THEN when things go south, he remembers it was "Bush's fault" :rolleyes:
Please try to keep up. 'me' posted "The advance announcement and early withdrawal of our troops contributed greatly to the ISIS problem." inferring that ISIS was Obama's fault. This has nothing to do with who took credit for ending the war.
Now read all the way through this article. This problem does not lay squarely on Bush' shoulders and part, maybe most, of the blame does rest on the shoulders of Obama.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/09/11/refereeing-the-john-mccain-jay-carney-spat-over-iraq/
QuoteThe Bush administration signed a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with Iraq in 2008 that established a deadline for the withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraq by Dec. 31, 2011. But there was some expectation that the SOFA could be renewed after that, with at least a small U.S. force remaining. The key issue in this dispute is whether approval of SOFA, which would have allowed some U.S. troops to remain in Iraq, could have been reached with the Iraqi government—and how hard the Obama administration fought for it.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
We all (well most anyway) know who the protagonist is in this situation. . .
At the end of the day, we wouldn't be having this conversation had we not ever invaded Iraq in the first place. All that was accomplished was access to oil for large multi-national corporations (mission accomplished!) and billions for Halliburton and its subsidiaries. I think that if these corporations and their stockholders want access to new markets and resources, they should hire their own armies and carry out their own campaigns. Never should our troops be put in harms way for anything that isn't a direct threat to our national security and especially not as cannon fodder to pad already rich people's pockets even more.
Back to the title of the thread, what do you think we should do?
Quote from: Exterminator on September 15, 2014, 09:12:42 AM
At the end of the day, we wouldn't be having this conversation had we not ever invaded Iraq in the first place. All that was accomplished was access to oil for large multi-national corporations (mission accomplished!) and billions for Halliburton and its subsidiaries. I think that if these corporations and their stockholders want access to new markets and resources, they should hire their own armies and carry out their own campaigns. Never should our troops be put in harms way for anything that isn't a direct threat to our national security and especially not as cannon fodder to pad already rich people's pockets even more.
I have nothing but 100% agreement for everything you said here. :yes: :yes: :yes:
Quote from: Anne on September 15, 2014, 11:13:53 AM
Back to the title of the thread, what do you think we should do?
If "we" is indicative of America, then getting our citizens out of harms way, restricting all travel to the middle-east by American citizens, and invoking "you're on your own" policies for those who travel there despite the restrictions, is all "we" should do.
You cannot deal with those who will not listen. Nor should we.
Now, if "we" includes the global community, well. . . lets just say there are a wealth of possibilities; but the real question is who among them has the stomach for those possibilities?
Ok, I can see that. I could go along with picking up all our toys and coming home. But to play devil's advocate, if we are in fact as some think the cause of this, do we not have a moral obligation to deal with it? To try and put it right?
We now have 1600 troops ON THE GROUND in Iraq....
Ah, but they are not 'combat troops'. Seriously, I don't see a way out of this in any way in the next few years (or many years). Does anyone else?