It was to have been a simple procedure to clear a blockage in an artery of her heart. No need for a general anesthetic, just something to make her drowsy. But when the job was done and Florence Cohen began to feel her senses sharpening, events took a turn for the odd.
Standing next to her bed in Sydney's St. Vincent's Hospital, her cardiologist asked her how she was feeling.
"I feel great," Florence said.
Noting, most likely, changes to her vital signs or coloring, he repeated the question.
"Terrible," came the reply.
A moment later, Florence went into cardiac arrest. She recalls, she says, the sounds of bells and sirens, being in a lift, and someone thumping her chest. But these memories are vague compared to her recollection of a subsequent scene. She was lying in surgery, surrounded by medical staff, yet she was not in her body but up near the ceiling, watching the activity below. She noted that her body on the bed wore a green gown with a split in the middle, and that she was otherwise completely covered. "I was calling out, 'Don't cut me. I'm still awake.' " She saw an incandescent light in the shape of a cone. "Then, boom," she says: her floating self rocketed to the cone's tip and . . . nothing.
That was 20 years ago. "I found it spooky," she says now. "I don't like to talk about it. It was the whitest light you could imagine. It wasn't a dream. It's still very, very vivid." . . .
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1657919,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1657919,00.html)
This is a 2007 article but an interesting read. It caught my eye for several reasons, the most applicable of which is the similarity to a recent medical situation I endured.
If you are interested in near death experiences, give it a read.
That was very interesting. I definitely think there is something to NDEs. I wonder how the researchers who say it is all just a physical responce explain a two or three year old reporting their NDE. They (very young children) probably would not have had the life experiences to complie that kind of experience.
I wonder if those NDE's are related to a phenomenon called "awareness" during surgery.
Since you all do not believe in God, why are you worried about death?
Quote from: RC on March 07, 2013, 10:44:49 AM
Since you all do not believe in God, why are you worried about death?
There you go again, brazenly painting with a brush loaded with the broad-strokes of ignorance.
Some of us indeed do not believe in a god. Some of us do not believe in the God constructed by human-kind. Some of us believe in a creator.
You are nothing but a troll in the classic sense of the term.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 07, 2013, 11:29:13 AM
There you go again, brazenly painting with a brush loaded with the broad-strokes of ignorance.
Some of us indeed do not believe in a god. Some of us do not believe in the God constructed by human-kind. Some of us believe in a creator.
You are nothing but a troll in the classic sense of the term.
Really!
Besides, his comment makes no sense anyway.
The very people who believe in God are the ones who should worry most about death and whether you get to go to Heaven or Hell. Those who do not believe probably aren't worried at all.
But then I never accused RC of being capable of rational thought.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 06, 2013, 12:30:18 PM
This is a 2007 article but an interesting read. It caught my eye for several reasons, the most applicable of which is the similarity to a recent medical situation I endured.
I have always been interested in such incidences. I have talked to a few that has shared such episodes. I have witnessed my mother speaking on her deathbed about scenes, people and angels.
Are you going to share your recent similarity? I would like to hear, if you are willing.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 07, 2013, 11:29:13 AM
There you go again, brazenly painting with a brush loaded with the broad-strokes of ignorance.
Some of us indeed do not believe in a god. Some of us do not believe in the God constructed by human-kind. Some of us believe in a creator.
You are nothing but a troll in the classic sense of the term.
I will ask one more time, you can post and say what you believe , and when I do I am a troll. what is the difference?
Quote from: Olias on March 07, 2013, 12:00:13 PM
Really!
Besides, his comment makes no sense anyway.
The very people who believe in God are the ones who should worry most about death and whether you get to go to Heaven or Hell. Those who do not believe probably aren't worried at all.
But then I never accused RC of being capable of rational thought.
You post is the ignorant one. People who have accepted God's gift of salvation, have no fear of death. I have no fear of death I know what awaits me. You can accept his free gift of salvation and know that you are going to heaven, reject it and know that your are going to hell. We all have the free will.
If one reject God and believes that death is all that there is ,why do they get so upset about any other talk about it.
Quote from: RC on March 07, 2013, 12:30:51 PM
I will ask one more time, you can post and say what you believe , and when I do I am a troll. what is the difference?
:rolleyes: Hypocrite troll.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 07, 2013, 12:36:30 PM
:rolleyes: Hypocrite troll.
Are all people who disagree with you a troll, stupid, ignorant,ect. all the things you like to sling around with no proof. You forgot to accuse me of living in a trailer and being on ssi, and having trash in my yard.
Quote from: RC on March 07, 2013, 12:39:37 PM
Are all people who disagree with you a troll, stupid, ignorant,ect. all the things you like to sling around with no proof. You forgot to accuse me of living in a trailer and being on ssi, and having trash in my yard.
I think there may be a question in there but it is really hard to tell. (Punctuation is your friend).
Each post you make proves my position; you are a hypocritical troll. (And you really need to clean that brush because it is still loaded with ignorance).
You cannot even keep your objectives organized. You are confusing me with another who regularly takes you to task over your trolling.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 07, 2013, 12:30:00 PM
Are you going to share your recent similarity? I would like to hear, if you are willing.
I am not.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 07, 2013, 12:45:07 PM
I think there may be a question in there but it is really hard to tell. (Punctuation is your friend).
Each post you make proves my position; you are a hypocritical troll. (And you really need to clean that brush because it is still loaded with ignorance).
You cannot even keep your objectives organized. You are confusing me with another who regularly takes you to task over your trolling.
You might be right, it is hard to keep up with who post what drivel.
Quote from: followsthewolf on March 06, 2013, 03:37:48 PM
I wonder if those NDE's are related to a phenomenon called "awareness" during surgery.
Is that the condition wherein the patient, despite being properly anesthetized, is fully awake and "aware" during a procedure? :spooked:
That's the one.
Quote from: followsthewolf on March 07, 2013, 01:02:09 PM
That's the one.
Oh man. . . Now that's horrible. I work with a guy who went through that and his story is not a pleasant one. :eek:
Quote from: Palehorse on March 07, 2013, 12:52:00 PM
Is that the condition wherein the patient, despite being properly anesthetized, is fully awake and "aware" during a procedure? :spooked:
:spooked: :spooked:
The thought of that happening scares the shit out of me.
Quote from: Locutus on March 07, 2013, 01:21:59 PM
:spooked: :spooked:
The thought of that happening scares the shit out of me.
Wow! I'm with you no this one...:spooked: :spooked:
I woke up once during a minor surgery, I remember hurting and saying that really hurts. The doctor said, "I don't think she is far enough under." A bit of an understatement, imo.
:spooked:
Quote from: Locutus on March 07, 2013, 01:21:59 PM
:spooked: :spooked:
The thought of that happening scares the shit out of me.
I learned about this right before I went into surgery to have 6 bypasses done.
Damn near had a dual accident right there on the bed.
Holy hell! :spooked: :spooked: :spooked:
Something happened to me last fall when I had surgery on my left eye (glaucoma). Don't know you would classify it.
I was scared beforehand and especially after I got to the hospital, but things went so smoothly after I got my IV that I was aware of the trip to the O.R. but then nothing -- until at some point, out of total darkness, a quick stab of pain, then back into the darkness, then what sounded and felt like water flushing, then that quick stab of pain again, then darkness. Time had no meaning but I gradually became aware of voices somewhere. After a while they got closer, and then I slowly, dreamily, smoothly came back from wherever my consciousness was. I remember thinking I should tell my doctor what happened, but didn't. There were no post-op complications, no nausea, no pain, so I got to go home fairly quickly, where I probably slept for at least 12 hours.
Not a pleasant experience, to say the least.
Hope you weren't too traumatized by it.
Quote from: followsthewolf on March 07, 2013, 07:11:14 PM
Not a pleasant experience, to say the least.
Hope you weren't too traumatized by it.
Thank you. :) It was scary just to think about the surgery, and then to have that happen ... :spooked:
Isn't it shame that we all get old, tired, feeble and sick. Then you find out those gold years is a farce and a lie. Then you find out that we have a group of assholes who want to take all the safety net from you that you paid into all of your working life. :rant:
It's enough to make you sick. :angry: :zoners:
Quote from: RC on March 07, 2013, 10:44:49 AM
Since you all do not believe in God, why are you worried about death?
RC I believe the only difference in those who believe in God and those who are agnostic, like myself and some others on here, is you and HH have put a name with your creator and we haven't. Some of us are just more tolerant of others beliefs than others.
Quote from: libby on March 07, 2013, 10:44:24 PM
Thank you. :) It was scary just to think about the surgery, and then to have that happen ... :spooked:
My latest procedure they put me in twilight. . . I have very little memory of it. Thankfully!
One of the things I hate is being at the dentist and they are working on a tooth and say "Oh shit!" :)
Quote from: Anne on March 09, 2013, 12:21:32 PM
One of the things I hate is being at the dentist and they are working on a tooth and say "Oh shit!" :)
:biggrin:
As they were prepping me for my last procedure they did something I found quite painful. I said "Ouch".
The surgeon said, "Oh yeah, give him the shot". :mad:
:spooked:
Quote from: Locutus on March 09, 2013, 02:46:46 PM
:spooked:
Yeah. I was going to say, WTF is this your first time at this, but the shot took me out rather quickly. . .
We probably do not want to know everything that goes on or is said while we are knocked out and lying there defenseless on that Operating Table.
Slight change of subject, but still in the neighborhood:
I worked as a medical secretary part time while taking college classes, and ended up working for doctors in a hospital and in private practice for years after that -- until I realized that I could make quite a bit more money elsewhere. Anyway, while still a medical secretary, I was told I required surgery for a bothersome problem -- nothing life-threatening but strongly recommended. Since I was already working for doctors, I got the requisite chest x-ray and lab work, and checked into the hospital the night before, with a good book; thought I'd read myself to sleep. It wasn't long before a young man in a white coat and clipboard walked in and introduced himself as Dr. so and so and said that he was there to do my pre-op physical.
(It was then that I remembered that medical students from Georgetown University did their internship at the hospital I was in.)
Anyway, there I was sitting up in bed, and he stood there looking at me, and then said, "That gown has to come off."
As a very shy young person and still a very modest person, I suddenly realized that the pretty ankle-length pull-over- my-head gown had not been the best choice. :redface: :redface: :redface: :redface: Then, as he stood there, I got off my bed, pulled that gown over my head and stood there naked :redface: :redface: :redface: :redface: He proceeeded to do a complete physical, including neurological, but not a rectal or other intrusive exam, thank the Lord!
After he left, I put my gown back on and sat there, mortified, thinking what a doofus I was. Then, in walked another young doctor, with a clipboard, and he said, "I'm Dr. so and so and here to ...." and I said, "Oh, no, you are not! I've already had my physical!" He didn't say a word, just turned around and walked out.
Holy hell Libby! :spooked:
:spooked: :spooked: :spooked: :spooked:
This thread just keeps getting scarier the more I read it.
Quote from: Locutus on March 09, 2013, 08:43:07 PM
:spooked: :spooked: :spooked: :spooked:
This thread just keeps getting scarier the more I read it.
Yup. Gettin old or sick ain't fer sissies! :icon_twisted: :spooked:
I hate general anesthesia, the feeling of not being in control of myself. So far, knock on wood, I have always responded well to it, but I still don't like it. Then again, there are some things they won't do to me without it. :)
Quote from: Anne on March 09, 2013, 09:24:27 PM
I hate general anesthesia, the feeling of not being in control of myself. So far, knock on wood, I have always responded well to it, but I still don't like it. Then again, there are some things they won't do to me without it. :)
I have never been comfortable with it. Ever. :no:
Although my wife tells me she has never seen me smile as much as I did when they put me into twilight this last time. :rolleyes:
Twilight is strange, you are aware of what is going on, you just don't care. :)
Quote from: followsthewolf on March 06, 2013, 03:37:48 PM
I wonder if those NDE's are related to a phenomenon called "awareness" during surgery.
I would suggest that is the most likely scenario for those that happen in the operating room.
The descriptions of bright light - the operating lights - and the looking down at the scene - reflection from the reflectors around the lights - fit a patient not completely in an anesthetic induced oblivion.
Quote from: RC on March 07, 2013, 12:35:43 PM
You post is the ignorant one. People who have accepted God's gift of salvation, have no fear of death. I have no fear of death I know what awaits me. You can accept his free gift of salvation and know that you are going to heaven, reject it and know that your are going to hell. We all have the free will.
If one reject God and believes that death is all that there is ,why do they get so upset about any other talk about it.
Somewhere around here starting years ago I started pointing out the fallacy of the x-tian 'free will' concept.
The 'free will' concept goes like this:
You have 'free will' because god allows you the choice between two options,
1. Choose god's 'salvation' and you will live forever in heavenly bliss.
or
2. Reject god's salvation and you will suffer eternal damnation in pain.
Now those options don't really allow for a choice, do they, especially for a god claiming to give you a choice - 'free will' - in his lil' game of eternity...and you must make a choice according to the rules of his game.
Doesn't sound as if you're really being given 'free will' now does it. Of course it doesn't because you're not and 'free will' doesn't exist in that scenario. For 'free will' to actually exist there has to be a third option - the one to completely reject god's lil' game entirely and without god's punishment.
'Free will' is just another of x-tianity's totally ridiculous doctrines.