6-Year-Old Scout Suspended for Bringing Knife-Fork-Spoon Utensil to School
(http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,564605,00.html)
Six-year-old Zachary Christie was so excited to become a Cub Scout that he brought his camping utensil to school. The tool serves as a spoon, a fork and a knife, and Zachary wanted to use it at lunch.
What Zachary didn't know was that the gizmo violated his school's zero-tolerance policy on weapons. And now the Christina School District in Newark, Del., has suspended the first grader and ordered him to attend the district's reform school for 45 days.
Zachary's parents insist their son did not intend to hurt anyone, and they are fighting to overturn the ruling.
"Zachary wears a suit and tie some days to school by his own choice because he takes school so seriously," Zachary's mother, Debbie Christie, told the New York Times. "He is not some sort of threat to his classmates."
The school district, in a statement, said rules are rules and defended its decision to suspend the boy.
I understand rules but to do this to a 6yr old who causes no trouble is beyond ridiculous. Where did common sense go anyway.
Two words: Zero Tolerance
Quote from: Locutus on October 12, 2009, 07:53:32 PM
Two words: Zero Tolerance
Like I said, what ever happened to common sense.
Quote from: me on October 12, 2009, 08:18:47 PM
Like I said, what ever happened to common sense.
Exactly....
Quote from: me on October 12, 2009, 08:18:47 PM
Like I said, what ever happened to common sense.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 12, 2009, 08:25:13 PM
Exactly....
Like where was the common sense of the parents who allowed their child to go to school with what could be construed as a weapon? I'm sorry, I don't have children, but I'm smart enough to know that school systems these days don't tolerate students bringing anything to class that can be used as a weapon. I'm not saying that it's the right thing to suspend this 6 year old, but the parents do share some of the blame.
Quote from: Palehorse on October 12, 2009, 10:44:56 PM
2 words - Patriot Act
I don't believe the Patriot Act has anything to do with it. The fact that there has been so much violence in the school systems has everything to do with it.
Actually, I'll take it a step further and say the parents have all of the blame. The six year old isn't smart enough to know or understand the ramifications taking of his scout utility utensil to school in the light of zero tolerance policies.
Quote from: Locutus on October 12, 2009, 11:00:43 PM
Actually, I'll take it a step further and say the parents have all of the blame. The six year old isn't smart enough to know or understand the ramifications taking of his scout utility utensil to school in the light of zero tolerance policies.
And parents don't always catch things like that. Hell, his mom could have checked his pockets and he sneaked it in after she did it. You never raised kids did ya?
I've had enough experience with them to know that's a possibility, that's why I said I'm not sure suspension is appropriate in this case. However, zero tolerance is zero tolerance.
Ya, put the 6yr old in with boys who can really teach him the ropes. Real smart huh?
Quote from: me on October 12, 2009, 10:57:07 PM
I don't believe the Patriot Act has anything to do with it. The fact that there has been so much violence in the school systems has everything to do with it.
That's when they took a nice hunk out of our liberties and freedom, so yeah it does have a role in it.
Quote from: Palehorse on October 13, 2009, 03:15:59 AM
That's when they took a nice hunk out of our liberties and freedom, so yeah it does have a role in it.
It has NOTHING to do with having enough common sence to realize that a 6-year old boy is posing a threat because he brought in his boy scout utensils.....they could have sat down with him and told him, that he cannot bring to school with him..........it is one of the most stupid things I have read in the last couple of days.
Quote from: me on October 12, 2009, 08:18:47 PM
Like I said, what ever happened to common sense.
So I guess it should be ok to carry this non-weapon onto an airplane as well; huh?
Quote from: Exterminator on October 13, 2009, 08:29:13 AM
So I guess it should be ok to carry this non-weapon onto an airplane as well; huh?
We are not talking about an airplane....we are talking about a 6 year old boy who took it to school to eat lunch with it, because he was proud of it....and the morons suspended him.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 13, 2009, 08:37:07 AM
We are not talking about an airplane....we are talking about a 6 year old boy who took it to school to eat lunch with it, because he was proud of it....and the morons suspended him.
As has been said before, zero tolerance is zero tolerance. If you breeders would mind your little hell-spawn, it wouldn't be an issue. :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on October 13, 2009, 03:15:59 AM
That's when they took a nice hunk out of our liberties and freedom, so yeah it does have a role in it.
Exactly what freedom did it take away from you? I didn't miss any freedom...I could still disagree with the government, listen to which ever show I wanted to whether it be Fox, CNN or NBC, listen to what ever talk show host I wanted to, call the president an idiot or a nazi if I chose to do so, or draw and publish an unfavorable caricature of him without fear of reprisal, hold a gathering protesting policies and carry a sign depicting the President as a nazi or worse.
Now I couldn't carry a weapon on board a plane, talk about blowing up a major structure in the US or any other country, have contact with terrorists, stash huge sums of money that just magically appeared, or things of that nature but I wasn't planning on doing any of that anyway so which of those things were you planning on doing that it interfered with? What part of the Patriot Act changed your life and caused you to miss out on a freedom?
Quote from: me on October 13, 2009, 10:55:08 AM
What part of the Patriot Act changed your life and caused you to miss out on a freedom?
Can you make a private phone call, send a private email or expect that the government cannot search you or your property without due process?
Quote from: Exterminator on October 13, 2009, 11:14:39 AM
Can you make a private phone call, send a private email or expect that the government cannot search you or your property without due process?
yes I do it all the time...and have YET to have myself or my property searched by the government
LMAO!! I was going to ask that exact same question. :biggrin:
well, I send emails...make private phone calls...and I have NEVER had anybody kick my door in because of it.....
It was YOUR question.....I answered it.
I think you're missing Ex's point HH.
Quote from: Locutus on October 13, 2009, 12:20:25 PM
I think you're missing Ex's point HH.
The point IS.........if you are planning on blowing up an building or killing the president or anything that is harmful to the Nation........you may very well be brought in for questioning or paid a visit by someone OUT doing the job of protecting America.....but, you can send all the emails and phone calls you want otherwise....
Quote from: Exterminator on October 13, 2009, 11:14:39 AM
Can you make a private phone call, send a private email or expect that the government cannot search you or your property without due process?
They have had that capability for a long time and used it. The only thing that was implemented was to allow quick action if something suspicious was observed or overheard. It did not affect the average citizen in the least, only those who transferred large sums of cash with no traceable means of acquisition or those who made overseas calls to known terrorist areas continually.
Quote from: me on October 13, 2009, 12:35:38 PM
They have had that capability for a long time and used it. The only thing that was implemented was to allow quick action if something suspicious was observed or overheard. It did not affect the average citizen in the least, only those who transferred large sums of cash with no traceable means of acquisition or those who made overseas calls to known terrorist areas continually.
You're naive.
Did either of you have any problems because or the Patriot Act? Now I know you were subject to searches at air ports but that was for your safety. What if the guy in front of or ahead of you had a gun or explosive? What if their luggage contained a plastic or liquid explosive? What if the guy across the street from you was buying up large quantities of some poison substance to put in the cities water supply? Shouldn't activities like that be watched when noticed? Oh, and the bank thing....Someone goes to the bank and wants to transfer a huge sum of money overseas shouldn't there be some sort of explanation for that, shouldn't the government know where it is going and why? Those are some of the things that were being done by the Patriot Act not prying into ordinary citizens lives and causing them problems other than a few inconveniences by having to wait in line at an airport or some such thing. The Patriot Act just enabled the Government to act quickly rather than having to wait until they could get ahold of a judge which may have made all the difference in the world whether something was stopped before being carried out. Now what the current administration does with it is up to the current administration since it was left in place.
Quote from: me on October 13, 2009, 06:19:48 PM
Did either of you have any problems because or the Patriot Act? Now I know you were subject to searches at air ports but that was for your safety. What if the guy in front of or ahead of you had a gun or explosive? What if their luggage contained a plastic or liquid explosive? What if the guy across the street from you was buying up large quantities of some poison substance to put in the cities water supply? Shouldn't activities like that be watched when noticed? Oh, and the bank thing....Someone goes to the bank and wants to transfer a huge sum of money overseas shouldn't there be some sort of explanation for that, shouldn't the government know where it is going and why? Those are some of the things that were being done by the Patriot Act not prying into ordinary citizens lives and causing them problems other than a few inconveniences by having to wait in line at an airport or some such thing. The Patriot Act just enabled the Government to act quickly rather than having to wait until they could get ahold of a judge which may have made all the difference in the world whether something was stopped before being carried out. Now what the current administration does with it is up to the current administration since it was left in place.
That is the point, we wouldn't know about it until they'd trumped up something to charge us with. They can read your e-mails, tap your phones, and pretty much do whatever they want to if someone even
thinks terrorist. And it doesn't take much to get them to think it either.
Buy a couple hundred gallons of diesel fuel and some fertilizer, and you'll see.
And yes it has caused me a big problem; the ammo shortages.
They can also search your place without telling you as well. :yes:
Like that never happened before the Patriot act..... :rolleyes: And yes, if you're not a farmer you have no business buying that much gas or fertlizer so why wouldn't that send up a red flag.
The ammo shortage is a result of all the gun control talk and has nothing to do with the Patriot act. If it had to do with the Patriot act there would have been shortages long before now.
And bypass the warrant thingy too. :icon_evil:
Quote from: me on October 13, 2009, 10:28:35 PM
Like that never happened before the Patriot act..... :rolleyes: And yes, if you're not a farmer you have no business buying that much gas or fertlizer so why wouldn't that send up a red flag.
The ammo shortage is a result of all the gun control talk and has nothing to do with the Patriot act. If it had to do with the Patriot act there would have been shortages long before now.
Okay, I'm wrong again as always. :rolleyes: Never mind; I just won't pay any attention to you sheeple anymore.
I forgot it worked so well with McVeigh. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on October 13, 2009, 10:29:17 PM
And bypass the warrant thingy too. :icon_evil:
The warrant thing to bug your phone or check your bank account not to arrest you.
Quote from: Palehorse on October 13, 2009, 10:30:53 PM
Okay, I'm wrong again as always. :rolleyes: Never mind; I just won't pay any attention to you sheeple anymore.
I forgot it worked so well with McVeigh. . .
What does McVeigh have to do with anything? Isn't he the one that did the WTC on Clinton's watch?
Quote from: me on October 13, 2009, 10:35:13 PM
What does McVeigh have to do with anything? Isn't he the one that did the WTC on Clinton's watch?
Nope! He's who got you in trouble earlier with that suggested retaliation for the Oklahoma City federal building bombing. :wink:
Quote from: me on October 13, 2009, 10:35:13 PM
What does McVeigh have to do with anything? Isn't he the one that did the WTC on Clinton's watch?
Quote from: Locutus on October 13, 2009, 10:38:01 PM
Nope! He's who got you in trouble earlier with that suggested retaliation for the Oklahoma City federal building bombing. :wink:
His bomb was Diesel fuel and fertilizer.
Sure was. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on October 13, 2009, 10:38:01 PM
Nope! He's who got you in trouble earlier with that suggested retaliation for the Oklahoma City federal building bombing. :wink:
That's the building I meant. No clue why I said WTC....Hubby put an America DVD in and the music has me distracted. Not an excuse but a reason. I can walk and chew gum, rub my head and pat my belly but when it comes to listening to and watching a band I can't do anything else at the same time if a song I like is playing.
Dressed in a button-down shirt and tie and speaking calmly and articulately, first-grader Zachary Christie hardly looks or acts like the sort of kid who should be spending 45 days in reform school. But, thanks to a zero-tolerance policy, that's where Zachary's Delaware school system wanted him to go after he made the mistake of taking his favorite camping utensil to school.
However, on Tuesday night the school board made a hasty change to its code of conduct. The seven-member board voted unanimously to reduce the punishment for kindergartners and first-graders who bring weapons to school or commit other violent offenses to a suspension ranging from three to five days. Now, he could return Wednesday.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33289924/ns/today-today_people/
You and "me" happy now HH? ;D
:yes: :thumbsup:
i can't believe i agree with hank et al... but...
in a nutshell, what's wrong is the lack of will for responsiblility.
no one wants to be the bad guy, so they treat the 7 year old with a kitchen utensil in his pocket the same as the 17 year old with a sawed off shotgun under his trenchcoat.
if the rules are the same for all, no one can claim bias, no scream of outrage .... "my boy is NOT a criminal, if you'd just listen..." "sorry lady, zero tolerance."
it takes the place of thought. a tool of an increasingly beaurocrat run nation. and it should stop.
the frustrating thing is, IF there had not been such an uproar and it getting national attention, these morons would not have lifted this ban, they only did it after getting all sorts of bad press...
common sense would have simply brought this little boy into the principals office and explain what he did was wrong, and tell him IF he was to do it again, then he would be in trouble....but, this type of foolishness is what is the mater with this country......common sense no longer exists.
btw, awol.....this may have been a first.... :spooked: :razz:
NOW, A Firefighter is suspended for refusing to peel an American flag sticker from his locker.....
Firefight Over the Red, White and Blue
(http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/Firefight-Over-the-Red-White-and-Blue-64647657.html)
Seriously....WTF?
Not sure what world you live in but insubordination is insubordination.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 19, 2009, 12:35:03 PM
NOW, A Firefighter is suspended for refusing to peel an American flag sticker from his locker.....
Firefight Over the Red, White and Blue
(http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/Firefight-Over-the-Red-White-and-Blue-64647657.html)
Seriously....WTF?
That sucks big time.
Ya' know, Hank and Me, I like both of ya', but this is a prime example why several people here don't take y'all seriously and deliver a swift kick to your shins every chance they get. Sometimes even mese'f. :biggrin:
Y'all don't ever appear to, or be able to, think critically beyond where you're being led around through the ring in your nose.
Instead of the propaganda, here's what you should have absorbed from the article:
1. "A new department rule mandates that all stickers and statements -- union, cartoon and political -- be stripped from lockers after several offensive and racist images showed up in the firehouse."
Key words: rule, mandates, all
2. "The chief came out and said 'You have to remove your stickers,' I said 'No disrespect chief, but I'm not taking the flag off,'" Krapf recounted. He says the officer then asked him to leave...."
Key points: refusal to obey direct order from a superior enforcing the rule, consequences ensued
Since youse 'servs (read reactionaries) are repeatedly tellin' tha' world how big y'all are on personal responsibility and consequences of one's actions, one just might have supposed y'all would have been rakin' tha' guy over tha' coals instead of applaudin' him and actin' like it's PC run all amok.
Things that make ya' go "hmmmmmmmm!'
:biggrin:
Um, I thought the flag represented America not a union, cartoon, or politics.
Quote from: me on October 20, 2009, 02:16:33 AM
Um, I thought the flag represented America not a union, cartoon, or politics.
That particular flag is still a sticker and therefor part of the great subset
all, as in "department rule mandates that
all stickers and statements..."
GUYS, you are missing my point.....I read the entire story...and saw the rules..........MY point is, WHAT is wrong with America.............for GOD's sake, when did it become OFFENSIVE for the American flag to be displayed? I do not think of the American flag as being "political".....WFT? seriously.......have we stooped so low, that showing your patriotism has become offensive?........I know rules are rules and completely believe that we got to have them and they should be respected....but common f'ing sense has completely left this earth....it is just my opinion, and I think SOME things, are worth standing up for....and I think this fireman has honorably done so....
Henry, if the department exempted stickers of the American flag, they would be forced to exempt the flags of other nations. Now suppose some wag decided to make letters out of a bunch of those rectangular flags, and spelled out "the fire chief sucks" in flag letters. Would it be offensive if he did it in lots of different flags, but not if all the flags were Stars and Stripes? Tacky decoration is tacky decoration. Exactly how would you word the rule permitting the American flag to prevent such an occurrence?
Quote from: Y on October 19, 2009, 10:48:13 PM
Things that make ya' go "hmmmmmmmm!'
That you took the time to explain it succinctly and they still don't get it would be one of those things.
Quote from: LOsborne on October 20, 2009, 08:25:55 AM
Henry, if the department exempted stickers of the American flag, they would be forced to exempt the flags of other nations. Now suppose some wag decided to make letters out of a bunch of those rectangular flags, and spelled out "the fire chief sucks" in flag letters. Would it be offensive if he did it in lots of different flags, but not if all the flags were Stars and Stripes? Tacky decoration is tacky decoration. Exactly how would you word the rule permitting the American flag to prevent such an occurrence?
Well stated. :yes:
Did anyone else notice this?
(http://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/images/410*307/Firefighter+Flag+Sticker+-+Decal.jpg)
Looks like the guy had removed another sticker. Wonder what it said? Is there a pattern here?
Quote from: LOsborne on October 20, 2009, 08:25:55 AM
Henry, if the department exempted stickers of the American flag, they would be forced to exempt the flags of other nations. Now suppose some wag decided to make letters out of a bunch of those rectangular flags, and spelled out "the fire chief sucks" in flag letters. Would it be offensive if he did it in lots of different flags, but not if all the flags were Stars and Stripes? Tacky decoration is tacky decoration. Exactly how would you word the rule permitting the American flag to prevent such an occurrence?
I'm just saying, common sense does not exist.....we live in a day where being politically correct is over riding practical thinking....tacky decoration has been in every firehouse across this nation ever since we had firehouses....we simply need to remember, this IS the United States of America....and displaying the flag of this nation SHOULD not be something ANYONE should be ashamed of..........and for me, I don't think it is appropriate to compare displaying OTHER flags along with the US flag as long as we are on THIS soil....it just leads me to the though, what is WRONG with America?...
The only common sense lacking in this discussion is your own. If you are told to do something by your superior at work and you refuse, you should expect and be prepared for the consequences.
Quote from: Olias on October 20, 2009, 09:03:03 AM
Did anyone else notice this?
(http://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/images/410*307/Firefighter+Flag+Sticker+-+Decal.jpg)
Yep, I think the guy is full of krapf! :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on October 20, 2009, 09:29:08 AM
The only common sense lacking in this discussion is your own. If you are told to do something by your superior at work and you refuse, you should expect and be prepared for the consequences.
I agree 1000% with you.......my point is, that I simply find it sad, where these kind of rules exist....(and I'm talking about the flag not the other crap....) and I have respect for the fireman who is taking a stand on this.....it may seem trivial to some.......it is not like he has a picture of Bush or Clinton or Obama or Reagan or his mother ...just a simple American Flag.
and I believe he DID accept the consequences...
this just in...
Firefighter's Flag to Stay Put
(http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Firefighters-Flag-to-Stay-Put.html).....
A Chester City firefighter who was suspended for displaying an American flag sticker on the front of his locker will not have to remove the decal after all.
After two hours of negotiations, fire and union officials reached a resolution Monday afternoon to allow James Krapf and any another Chester County firefighter to display the red, white and blue on stationhouse property.
"There was never an intent to desecrate the American flag. Firefighter Krapf has been reinstated to duty as agreed upon by the parties," said Fire Commissioner James Johnson during a press conference.
Johnson suspended Krapf last week, without pay, after disobeying an order to remove the American flag from his locker. A department policy prohibited firefighters from posting personal items on lockers after a recent poster was found to be offensive.
The battalion chief was also asked to remove the sticker but he too refused.
More than 25 protesters showed up for a rally in support of Krapf outside the firehouse on East 14th Street Monday morning.
Officials also ruled that Krapf would be allowed to come back to work on Thursday.
Krapf said he expects to be reimbursed for a day and a half in back pay.NOW this is the America I love.....the man stood up for the flag as a marine and as a fireman/citizen....even his 'superior' knew this was wrong....but Krapf stayed true to his heart and got a victory....
this makes my day!!... :yes:
Great....I'm glad to see someone is using some common sense finally. Makes my day too Henry. :yes: :thumbsup:
The lesson here is that you can disobey an order from a superior and the union will have your back...common sense dictates that that's probably not a good situation in an organization whose members' lives depend on regimentation.
That's what's wrong with America.
Quote from: Exterminator on October 20, 2009, 10:50:34 AM
The lesson here is that you can disobey an order from a superior and the union will have your back...common sense dictates that that's probably not a good situation in an organization whose members' lives depend on regimentation.
That's what's wrong with America.
you are obviously JUST wanting to argue....and be ridicules....because this is NOT a situation where a fireman is wanting to do anything that is going to harm anyone.......he was NOT being disrespectful....and he said that to his superior....and his superior in a round about way, agreed.....you are grasping at straws to make an argument out of this...and I WILL not fall for it pal...say what you want.....this guy did the RIGHT thing, that to many wussies out there are afraid to do.
is it just an automatic with you to disagree with me, without really thinking?....
Y tried to explain it to you as simply as possible; you just don't get it. Be thankful that you'll never work for me.
Quote from: Exterminator on October 20, 2009, 12:22:55 PM
Y tried to explain it to you as simply as possible; you just don't get it. Be thankful that you'll never work for me.
Like I would want too? :rolleyes:
Ex, it is okay.....you just simply don't get something.....I do not look down upon you, you just cant get it.
I will keep on working with you though.... ;) :razz: maybe someday.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 20, 2009, 12:27:28 PM
Like I would want too? :rolleyes:
Like you have any skill set in which I'd be interested?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 20, 2009, 09:08:54 AM
..and for me, I don't think it is appropriate to compare displaying OTHER flags along with the US flag as long as we are on THIS soil....
Geez, Henry. What an inflexible, totalitarian, non-creative point of view! You would deny me the right to blend the ol' stars and stripes, with the Indiana state flag? the Girl Scouts of America flag? the Marine Corps flag? the black and old gold of Purdue? I don't know what you do for a living, but you're no artist.
It makes me very sad that people in this country get more worked up about a gummy piece of faded paper than about the fact that there are NO JOBS. Doesn't anybody have a sense of proportion these days? Whacha wanna bet the damned sticker was made in Taiwan?
Quote from: LOsborne on October 20, 2009, 06:40:32 PM
Geez, Henry. What an inflexible, totalitarian, non-creative point of view! You would deny me the right to blend the ol' stars and stripes, with the Indiana state flag? the Girl Scouts of America flag? the Marine Corps flag? the black and old gold of Purdue? I don't know what you do for a living, but you're no artist.
Not to mention the MIA/POW flag.
Quote from: LOsborne on October 20, 2009, 06:40:32 PM
Geez, Henry. What an inflexible, totalitarian, non-creative point of view! You would deny me the right to blend the ol' stars and stripes, with the Indiana state flag? the Girl Scouts of America flag? the Marine Corps flag? the black and old gold of Purdue? I don't know what you do for a living, but you're no artist.
okay, I meant other countries flags....I didn't think about those you mentioned....all but purdue, are good exceptions.. :razz:
Quote from: LOsborne on October 20, 2009, 06:45:01 PM
It makes me very sad that people in this country get more worked up about a gummy piece of faded paper than about the fact that there are NO JOBS. Doesn't anybody have a sense of proportion these days? Whacha wanna bet the damned sticker was made in Taiwan?
If they are, then it's a job I wouldn't want to have here in the US anyway. A wasteful job where you make stickers that can't even be displayed. (I'm not taking a side on this, just saying....)
Quote from: pariann on October 21, 2009, 02:10:50 AM
If they are, then it's a job I wouldn't want to have here in the US anyway...
So you would prefer the wages, taxes and profits on these little pieces of crap go out of the country? Like those foreign-made
Support the troops magnets that cost $1.89, made shallow people feel like they were "making a contribution" and ruined the finish on every car that sported one? Those magnets supported a lot more Taiwanese than troops. I bet the same is true of flag stickers. Lemmings. We're all lemmings.
You know it makes no difference. There are jobs all over the world. Manufacturers all over the world. Export and import. I'm sure the US exports plenty of things that the foreigners buy. It just makes absolutely no difference in the end. Now does it?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 20, 2009, 09:47:16 PM
okay, I meant other countries flags....I didn't think about those you mentioned....all but purdue, are good exceptions..
And thereby lies the rub. NO stickers .. except the stars and stripes.
What about MIA/POW stickers?? Okay, those are fine too.
My kid is an Eagle Scout!! Swell, you can display a Boy Scout sticker.
Fight breast cancer!! Pink ribbons are okay too.
Suddenly, you have the lockers covered with tacky stickers again. Allow one, you have to allow them all. Free speech ya' know. Why not give some thought to why the stickers were banned in the first place, instead of pounding your breast over the sacred flag? There are lots of places to fly the your flag, whether it's a battalion ensign or Boilermaker Pete. There is no need to wallpaper the world in stars and stripes to prove you're patriotic. I would question the motives of anyone who felt the need to proclaim membership in any organization everywhere he went, anyway. Why not wear stars and stripes dentures, if it's so damned important to you.
If people can't tell your loyalties without the label, you really aren't much of a supporter.
Quote from: pariann on October 21, 2009, 08:06:33 AM
I'm sure the US exports plenty of things that the foreigners buy. It just makes absolutely no difference in the end.
So I'm being alarmist worrying about the balance of trade? And just where are these manufacturing plants that make things foreigner buy? Here in the Devil's Playground, they all moved out of the country.
oh not everything is gone from US soil. And no you aren't being an alarmist....it just doesn't matter in the long run. If I've learned nothing in the last 48 years, I've learned that businesses can do whatever they want, and the little people have no choice in their decisions. Even our buying power is down.
An Lo, in case you didn't know. I'm unemployed, and can't find a job here in Anderson...and can't afford to go outside of the city to find a full time job. So I don't like these jobs not being here. But like I said...in the end what does it matter? You and I can make no difference. Things are going to be what they are until the business owners make a change.
The problem is they will not make a change unless they are forced to. Yes, grass-root efforts are fairly futile, especially at first, and government regulations are one of the drivers behind the flight of manufacturing from U.S. soil. But a combination of these efforts must be the answer, at least in part.
Things like NAFTA made it a no brainer for business leaders to pull up stakes and leave the high costs of doing business in the U.S. for the low cost of doing that same business in other countries. Yeah, it may have made the country all warm and fuzzy with our new found friends in those countries, but where are they now that our citizens are starving and living at below poverty levels of income annually?
(Eating steaks, slurping imported adult beverages, and laughing at the plight of U.S. citizens no doubt!)
If you really want something to bitch about, try this (http://www.wlky.com/cnn-news/21467637/detail.html) on for size.
Quote from: Exterminator on October 30, 2009, 01:47:03 PM
If you really want something to bitch about, try this (http://www.wlky.com/cnn-news/21467637/detail.html) on for size.
don't even get me started....THIS is a bunch of lawyers that should NOT exist.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 30, 2009, 02:13:14 PM
don't even get me started....THIS is a bunch of lawyers that should NOT exist.
So the parents have no culpability?
Quote from: Exterminator on October 30, 2009, 02:23:58 PM
So the parents have no culpability?
they should have their asses kicked by the judge for bringing such BS cases to his court...wasting Taxpayers money.
I feel sorry for the parents because they lost a child but there is always a risk in sports and that could have happened with a wooden bat. Those attorney's just seen a chance to make a buck and the parents sucked into it. Ambulance chasing attorney's should be barred.
Quote from: me on October 30, 2009, 03:14:34 PM
I feel sorry for the parents because they lost a child but there is always a risk in sports and that could have happened with a wooden bat. Those attorney's just seen a chance to make a buck and the parents sucked into it. Ambulance chasing attorney's should be barred.
Why are you so sure that the parents aren't the ones who saw a chance to make a buck and contacted the attorneys?
Quote from: Exterminator on October 30, 2009, 03:27:30 PM
Why are you so sure that the parents aren't the ones who saw a chance to make a buck and contacted the attorneys?
Either way it shouldn't be allowed to happen but most generally it's an ambulance chasing attorney that put's the idea into peoples heads in cases like these.
Maybe the parents did contact a lawyer first but I know from experience when a child is killed the lawyers arrive in swarms wanting to sue everyone who might have been even remotely involved.
Quote from: Anne on October 30, 2009, 06:42:44 PM
Maybe the parents did contact a lawyer first but I know from experience when a child is killed the lawyers arrive in swarms wanting to sue everyone who might have been even remotely involved.
Even if you could quantify that, the attorneys could not pursue a case without the parents' involvement so the ultimate responsibility rests with them.
Since we're going to speak from experience on this subject, let me just say this.
Parents that lose a child are emotionally well beyond devastated, and the grief they experience goes far beyond that experienced in the loss of a sibling, parent, or other beloved relative. Much more beyond it. The grieving process is magnified exponentially as well, and when they reach the anger phase you don't want to be anywhere near any type of possible "root cause" status.
You think you've seen someone lose control, but you've never seen anyone lose it until you've been around a parent in the anger phase of grief over the loss of a child. Nothing, and I mean nothing, can stop them once they get tone lock on a possible cause; and if that cause can be shown to be connected to the practices, policies, procedures, or products of an industry with deep pockets, they'll dig into those pockets with both hands if at all possible. (I know because 20 years ago I was one of those parents).
And who could blame them? I don't. The court system makes the determinations in these cases, and in the one in question here how can we say it was the parents who needed their asses kicked for filing a "BS case" when the court awarded them funds? Apparently the jury who heard the evidence deemed it valid and the court approved the award. . . And I am certain that the company's attorneys filed more than one motion to dismiss due to what they were surely viewing as a frivolous case to begin with. I have sat on a jury in civil cases and I know how the process works. I also know that juries are not stupid and, (like we did in on such a case here in Anderson), when a case is shown to be frivolous, or when the party bringing suit demonstrates they are money grubbing maggots, the jury will take that into account in deciding.
IMHO the precedent was set for cases such as this one when the courts began allowing the families of individuals that were shot by human beings, sue the manufacturers of firearms used in the commission of acts of murder for monetary awards. So, why not bats, knives, forks, spoons, blah, blah, blah!
Is it bullshit? Yeah personally I believe it is; but until the courts render decisions that say it is, it legally is not. . . That is not the parents fault. I give them a pass due to emotional distress that renders them incapable of making a rational decision. . .
with that said, it is a reminder, that it is easy to speak about such things from a practical sense...I hope and pray, that I never have to be in such a situation...but the bottom line is, who is really at fault?.....we seem to forget, that ACCIDENTS DO HAPPEN, and nobody on many occassions, is at "fault".....to sue for the sake of suing has become second nature....too many lawyers make a living off of such cases....the play on the hearts and souls of their victims......and the outcome effects innocent people.
One has to wonder just where all the faith in our court system has gone, and why has it left? I know for a fact that hundreds of cases are thrown out of court each and every day in this country, because they are baseless, frivolous, or just downright stupid money grubbing efforts; and it is the responsibility of the judges in these cases to toss them. In some cases, (too few if you ask me), the lawyer filing the suit is reprimanded as well. Still, a lot of folks none-the-less quick to question the validity of the decisions of the courts in cases such as this one. Why?
Certainly I have had experiences in my life that color my personal opinions surrounding the legal / justice systems, just like everyone else, but although these experiences cause me to disagree with certain laws enacted, or polices, I still have faith that in the end the truth will win. It is the way our system is supposed to work, and though it may move frustratingly slow in many cases, eventually the "right" decisions will be arrived at.
The legal system is a living and breathing entity and it is constantly changing. As societal pressures and perspectives swing from left to right like the pendulum on a Regulator clock, so does our justice / legal system, and it has to be this way. We cannot allow ourselves to grow content with anything that does not accurately represent the moral majority within society, or we risk losing the faith of the very same individuals the laws and policies are enacted to protect and serve. Indeed, it is for this very reason that practitioners of law are a vital part of our justice system, for unless cases are brought to question and try the virtues of our laws, by what measure are we going to gauge our success in their accuracy and success? The "happiness" of the average human being in living within or outside of them? That would be an awfully leaky vessel within which to carry the lifeblood of our nation, would it not?
This is not to say that the system works perfectly, for certainly the individuals that have been wronged by this very system consists of a very long list that grows each and every day; and includes individuals that pay the ultimate price for these wrongful decisions by being put to death for the crimes they were wrongfully convicted of. No, it is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and certainly will never be so because it is a creation of humankind, and like humankind it is flawed, slow to change, and resistant to change.
It is because of these imperfections that I feel the law has fallen far short in recognition of them, for judges, lawyers, and politicians are prone to being victimized by one of the very vital tools of their trade; emotion.
Gather up twenty or thirty victims families that feel slingshots should be banned because someone in their family lost an eye, trot them out before congress, or onto the witness stand, and before the cameras, and watch as their emotional pleas wash over the juries, audiences, and congressional hearings of this land like a Tsunami of tears; and like a Tsunami, you will see individuals holding positions of power and decision making, being washed along helplessly within its unstoppable forces, moved to decisions arrived at in haste in order to placate the few. But for lawyers to try the validity of these decisions, we would be awash in the flotsam of emotional irrationality; drowning in the resultant sea-foam that clogs our throats and chokes the life out of us.
The worst of these situations is when they happen to you, so it would seem to be incumbent upon us all to assure that the process works as best it can; and when it does not to undertake actions to enact the changes and governance necessary to safeguard all. Anything less is risking chaos and anarchy.
Quote from: Exterminator on November 02, 2009, 09:15:23 AM
Even if you could quantify that, the attorneys could not pursue a case without the parents' involvement so the ultimate responsibility rests with them.
When my grandchildren were killed (in a single vehicle accident and they were the only ones in the car) within a few days there were at least 5 lawyers contacting my daughter and her husband wanting them to sue at least 4 different people/companies/state. My cousins son was killed in a motor vehicle accident (his truck was hit by another truck that crossed the center line) she had essentially the same experience. My daughter and her husband chose not to sue anyone and I don't think my cousin did either. When you have lost a child like this you are devastated and I can see why it would be easy (?) to want to sue someone. Not logical maybe but understandable. No one should ever have to face that decision.