From the article: (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/09/14/resentment/)
"...the right-wing fury over health care reform is motivated by the fear that middle-class Americans will have their money taken away by Obama while -- all together now, euphemistically -- "having someone else benefit." And this "someone else" are, as always, the poor minorities and other undeserving deadbeats who, in right-wing lore, somehow (despite their sorry state) exert immensely powerful influence over the U.S. Government and are thus the beneficiaries of endless, undeserved largesse: people too lazy to work, illegal immigrants, those living below the poverty line.
This is the paradox of the tea-party movement and other right-wing protests fueled by genuine citizen anger and fear. It is true that the federal government embraces redistributive policies and that middle-class income is seized in order that "someone else benefits." But so obviously, that "someone else" who is benefiting is not the poor and lower classes -- who continue to get poorer as the numbers living below the poverty line expand and the rich-poor gap grows in the U.S. to unprecedented proportions. The "someone else" that is benefiting from Washington policies are -- as usual -- the super-rich, the tiny number of huge corporations which literally own and control the Government. The premise of these citizen protests is not wrong: Washington politicians are in thrall to special interests and are, in essence, corruptly stealing the country's economic security in order to provide increasing benefits to a small and undeserving minority. But the "minority" here isn't what Fox News means by that term, but is the tiny sliver of corporate power which literally writes our laws and, in every case, ends up benefiting.
It wasn't the poor or illegal immigrants who were the beneficiaries of the Wall St. bailout; it was the investment banks which, not even a year later, are wallowing in record profits and bonuses thanks to massive taxpayer-funded welfare. The endlessly expanding (and secret) balance sheet of the Federal Reserve isn't going to fund midnight basketball programs or health care for Mexican immigrants but is enabling extreme profiteering by the very people who, just a year ago, almost brought the global economic system to full-scale collapse. Our endless wars and always-expanding Surveillance State -- fueled by constant fear-mongering campaigns against the Latest Scary Enemy -- keep the National Security corporations drowning in profits, paid for by middle-class taxes. And even health-care reform -- which supposedly began with anger over extreme insurance company profiteering at the expense of people's health -- will be an enormous boon to that same industry, as tens of millions of people are forced by the Government to become their customers with the central mechanism to control costs (the public option) blocked by that same industry. That's why those industries are enthusiastically in favor of reform: because, as always, they will benefit massively from it.
This is what is so strange and remarkable about these tea-party protests. The people who win when government acts aren't the poor, minorities or illegal immigrants -- the prime targets of these protesters' resentment. Their plight only worsens by the day. In Washington, members of those groups are even more powerless than "middle-income Americans." That's so obvious. The people who win whenever the federal government expands its power are the ones who, through their massive resources and lobbyists armies, control what the government does: the richest and most powerful corporations. And yet -- in an extreme paradox -- those are the people who are venerated by the Right: they simultaneously spew rage at what's happening in Washington while revering and defending the interests of the oligarchs who are most responsible.
What's really happening with these protests is that the genuine rage and not unreasonable economic insecurity of these citizens is being stoked, exploited, distorted and manipulated by movement leaders for entirely different ends. The people who are leading them -- Rush Limbaugh, the Murdoch-owned Fox News, Glenn Beck, business-dominated organizations of the type led by Dick Armey -- are cultural warriors above everything else. They're all in a far different socioeconomic position than the "middle-income Americans" whose anger they're ostensibly representing. Their principal preoccupation is their cultural contempt for various groups (illegal immigrants, the "undeserving" poor, liberals) and their desire to preserve the status quo whereby the prime beneficiaries of government policies remain themselves: the super rich and the interests that control Washington."
In a nutshell: "That's what accounts for the gaping paradox of these protests movements: genuine anger (over the core corruption of Washington and the eroding economic security for virtually everyone other than a tiny minority) is being bizarrely directed at those who never benefit (the poorest and most downtrodden), while those who are most responsible (the wealthiest and largest corporations) are depicted as the victims who need defending."
Another excellent article! :yes:
I loved how he points out that Limbaugh, Beck, and the others are leading the small minded simpletons around by their noses.
i don't understand the brainwashing from any of them. What ever happened to "I've got a mind of my own"?
Quote from: pariann on September 14, 2009, 04:35:47 PM
i don't understand the brainwashing from any of them. What ever happened to "I've got a mind of my own"?
I guess if you hear enough of "The sky is falling!" you start to believe it. They are all saying essentially the same things which makes them seem credible. But the four of us can create a theory and preach over and over and manipulate numbers and evidence and people will start to believe what we are saying. It is really sad. I often wonder why my very opinionated Republican friends don't want everyone to have something as simple as health care. Is it because if that happens then they don't win? They aren't better than a section of people if we all have the same thing? So sad really.
I wrote a lengthy response and...it is not worth it.
plain and simple .... we don't see eye to eye.
Ah, go ahead and post it HH.
Quote from: Locutus on September 14, 2009, 05:33:45 PM
Ah, go ahead and post it HH.
so, the millions of people who marched in washington....only did it because of beck?....but all of you guys who think the POTUS is the best thing since unicorns....was only inspired by reading the newspapers and watching TV and formulated your very own opinion?
that amazes me...the line of thinking that is full of hypocrisy..
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 14, 2009, 06:55:15 PM
so, the millions of people who marched in washington...
May I have your source for the number, please? I can't find diddly-squat, except some blogs, and their estimates run everywhere from "tens of thousands" to "everyone in the known universe."
Are we even sure this event took place?
Well I see a need for healthcare reform. have for a long time. I don't know that what the bill says...or if what Obama says is the right thing. But I do see a LOT of people who are calling themselves republicans doing their damndest to convince everyone else that this is a bad thing. I'm still trying to find a democrat that says anything as harshly about it as the republicans. Though I have heard the regular every day Joe (like myself) have doubts about the current bill, I haven't heard the dem big names as carried away about it as the repub big names. That tells me that the dems are not trying to brainwash the masses as much as the repubs are. But that is only my perception of it. I've read on these pages both sides of the tale, and I STILL haven't let one or the other side sway what I currently think of the whole mess.
Quote from: pariann on September 14, 2009, 08:06:27 PM
Well I see a need for healthcare reform. have for a long time. I don't know that what the bill says...or if what Obama says is the right thing. But I do see a LOT of people who are calling themselves republicans doing their damndest to convince everyone else that this is a bad thing. I'm still trying to find a democrat that says anything as harshly about it as the republicans. Though I have heard the regular every day Joe (like myself) have doubts about the current bill, I haven't heard the dem big names as carried away about it as the repub big names. That tells me that the dems are not trying to brainwash the masses as much as the repubs are. But that is only my perception of it. I've read on these pages both sides of the tale, and I STILL haven't let one or the other side sway what I currently think of the whole mess.
That is exactly how I feel. I don't think the POTUS is the best thing since unicorns. I happen to think Unicorns are kick ass! I just don't see how everyone having health care is a bad thing!!
Quote from: LOsborne on September 14, 2009, 07:15:21 PM
May I have your source for the number, please? I can't find diddly-squat, except some blogs, and their estimates run everywhere from "tens of thousands" to "everyone in the known universe."
Are we even sure this event took place?
I have read 1.5 million to 150,000....I have NO reliable source...I just picked the biggest one, of course... :razz:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1213056/Up-million-march-US-Capitol-protest-Obamas-spending-tea-party-demonstration.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1213056/Up-million-march-US-Capitol-protest-Obamas-spending-tea-party-demonstration.html)
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/how-big-was-the-crowd/ (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/how-big-was-the-crowd/)
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/max/how-many-people-came-to-912-taxpayer-march-on-wash (http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/max/how-many-people-came-to-912-taxpayer-march-on-wash)
the amazing thing was the police reported NO arrests were made http://www.examiner.com/x-16143-Richmond-Republican-Examiner~y2009m9d13-The-912-Project-tea-party-march-on-Washington-part-two-with-slideshow (http://www.examiner.com/x-16143-Richmond-Republican-Examiner~y2009m9d13-The-912-Project-tea-party-march-on-Washington-part-two-with-slideshow)
Quote from: kimmi on September 14, 2009, 08:12:46 PM
That is exactly how I feel. I don't think the POTUS is the best thing since unicorns. I happen to think Unicorns are kick ass! I just don't see how everyone having health care is a bad thing!!
I don't think ANYBODY is against everyone having health care....I just think the dispute is on HOW this is achieved....for me, I don't like how the gov is lining themselves up for a large amount of control....I think this whole debate is fantastic....sooner or later, many of the current problems WILL be addressed and hopefully improved.....for everyone.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 14, 2009, 09:30:18 PM
I don't think ANYBODY is against everyone having health care....I just think the dispute is on HOW this is achieved....for me, I don't like how the gov is lining themselves up for a large amount of control....I think this whole debate is fantastic....sooner or later, many of the current problems WILL be addressed and hopefully improved.....for everyone.
Ok so why are there people that are vehemently fighting against it and making it sound like only socialist want health care for everyone?
Quote from: kimmi on September 14, 2009, 09:56:59 PM
Ok so why are there people that are vehemently fighting against it and making it sound like only socialist want health care for everyone?
the republicans have delivered three bills to congress with alternative solutions but they have been ignored....I posted all three on here somewhere, I will find them tomorrow....they were sound ideas that should at least be looked at, but were not....they had solutions with LESS government involvement....and THAT is what MOST people on the right want....
How do you know they weren't even looked at? Because they weren't accepted, doesn't mean that they weren't looked at. That could well be more propaganda. We only know what they TELL us. That's both sides of the aisle.
Maybe the Democrats should say they read the Republican proposals and tell why they didn't like them.
Quote from: Anne on September 14, 2009, 11:50:20 PM
Maybe the Democrats should say they read the Republican proposals and tell why they didn't like them.
Well, personally I was terribly upset at the "euthanasia draperies."
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 14, 2009, 09:26:18 PM
I have read 1.5 million to 150,000....I have NO reliable source...I just picked the biggest one, of course... :razz
Thanks, Henry. I thought my search engines had gone on strike.
Quote from: LOsborne on September 14, 2009, 07:15:21 PM
May I have your source for the number, please? I can't find diddly-squat, except some blogs, and their estimates run everywhere from "tens of thousands" to "everyone in the known universe."
Are we even sure this event took place?
Teabaggers can't do math. (http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/09/14/tea_party/index.html)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 14, 2009, 10:09:23 PM
the republicans have delivered three bills to congress with alternative solutions but they have been ignored....I posted all three on here somewhere, I will find them tomorrow....they were sound ideas that should at least be looked at, but were not....they had solutions with LESS government involvement....and THAT is what MOST people on the right want....
And all of them serve the interests of the insurance companies who are part of the problem. The private sector has had every opportunity to find a resolution that doesn't require government involvement and they have failed to do anything. If that were ever going to happen, it would have by now and we wouldn't need to have this conversation.
Quote from: Exterminator on September 15, 2009, 08:05:23 AM
And all of them serve the interests of the insurance companies who are part of the problem. The private sector has had every opportunity to find a resolution that doesn't require government involvement and they have failed to do anything. If that were ever going to happen, it would have by now and we wouldn't need to have this conversation.
That is not true....I think it took all of this eye opening events and debates to make EVERYONE realize that SOMETHING has to happen....TORT reform is not even discussed on the new bill.....THAT could do wonders alone....I think there is some common ground from both sides that need to be considered.....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 15, 2009, 08:22:56 AM
That is not true....I think it took all of this eye opening events and debates to make EVERYONE realize that SOMETHING has to happen....TORT reform is not even discussed on the new bill.....THAT could do wonders alone....I think there is some common ground from both sides that need to be considered.....
It is absolutely true. Who does tort reform benefit?
Quote from: Exterminator on September 15, 2009, 08:30:39 AM
It is absolutely true. Who does tort reform benefit?
For one, the Doctors....who are spending way too much $$$ TOO insurance companies...to protect themselves from losing their ass....it is a contributing factor to unnecessary costs....it is not the only answer, but in conjunction with other solutions, it is something that needs to be done.....the one's that benifit the most by NOT having it is the lawyers themselves, who, unfortunatly represent MOST of our congress...and gives quite a bit of money to certain political parties...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 15, 2009, 09:08:37 AM
For one, the Doctors....who are spending way too much $$$ TOO insurance companies...to protect themselves from losing their ass....
It actually benefits the insurance companies more than anyone because it lowers their liability with no guarantee whatsoever that any cost savings will be reflected in the premiums of health care professionals as a result. Tort reform is a perfect example of a very wealthy and powerful group of corporations pushing legislation that benefits only them (but they'll need some bailout funds too, please).
Quoteit is a contributing factor to unnecessary costs....it is not the only answer, but in conjunction with other solutions, it is something that needs to be done.....the one's that benifit the most by NOT having it is the lawyers themselves, who, unfortunatly represent MOST of our congress...and gives quite a bit of money to certain political parties...
Ah, yes, the lawyers are the people manipulating our legislative branch; not big money. :rolleyes:
So if you went to the hospital for some minor surgery and your records got switched and your arm was removed, how much would that mistake be worth to you and who should decide that figure? You've already said that the government shouldn't be involved so that pretty much only leaves the very insurance company responsible for paying the bill; how much sense does that make?
Quote from: Exterminator on September 15, 2009, 07:59:27 AM
Teabaggers can't do math. (http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/09/14/tea_party/index.html)
(http://www.glennbeck.com/images/news/2009/09/091409pod1.jpg)
I think the more realistic figures show there was between 400,000 to 500,000 people there.....not a bad turn out....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on September 15, 2009, 09:46:49 AM
I think the more realistic figures show there was between 400,000 to 500,000 people there.....not a bad turn out....
Dream on. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-09-11-tax-rally_N.htm)